Thai Women Dating Foreigners (William please chime in)

[Capstone]

I have noticed a definite upsurge in recent weeks & months with posts regarding Thai women. I think this is great because other than William we really have not had a lot of first hand accounts of successful relationships between Western men and Thai women posted on the board.

My question is why do you think that a successful Western/Thai relationship/marriage seems to be somewhat rare when compared to other cross cultural relationships? It has been alluded to in posts on more than one occasion that decent Thai women will not enter into a relationship with a foreigner so easily. But why exactly is that the case? Is it really considered a taboo so to speak within Thai culture to marry outside of one's culture? Are foreigners considered a bad influence? Are Thais a bit xenophobic in nature? Any and all input is welcome - I am very curious about this as the recent posts regarding Thai women have peaked my curiosity on the subject.

[Jeff S]

My cousin married a Thai lady. She was divorced with a young daughter so didn't have the kind of options in Thailand as a single girl might. He's honest, hardworking, and simple - great for him as he's a rural, simple kind of guy himself.

[Capstone]

My cousin married a Thai lady. She was divorced with a young daughter so didn't have the kind of options in Thailand as a single girl might. He's honest, hardworking, and simple - great for him as he's a rural, simple kind of guy himself.

Thanks for the input Jeff. Do you know if your cousin's wife had any initial reservations about marrying a foreigner?

[Celtic_Jorge]

A Thai man recently told me something along the lines the following:

"Not many self-respecting Thai women would even consider dating a farang.  Thai women who date farang are 99% prostitutes and other assorted rubbish."

Anyway, a recent upsurge?  Maybe just me.. haha.  And I'd never do it again.  In fact I'm not looking anymore at all.. I'm taking another year off.  Anyhow, cheers!

[Capstone]

A Thai man recently told me something along the lines the following:

"Not many self-respecting Thai women would even consider dating a farang.  Thai women who date farang are 99% prostitutes and other assorted rubbish."

Thanks for the input. This is what I was talking about - many other people have posted basically the same thing in the past. I would like to know the underlying reason(s) as to why it seems that many respectable Thai women will not consider a Western man for a partner. Is it something that Thai culture generally looks down upon?? If so why? Thanks!

[Bob_S]

It's an Asian culture thing.  A good girl who wishes to maintain her reputation and thus her marriage prospects (even in the on-line dating scene, most participants will never actually marry a foreigner and will ultimately marry a local) does not want to be perceived as a yellow taxi, tainted by foreign seed.    

[Jeff S]

No cap, I don't know her at all, just heard in some emails from my cousins.

I'd say it's not entirely an Asian thing. I suspect it has a LOT to do with Thailand being the sex tourist mecca of southeast Asia, from the many GI sent there during the Vietnam war for R&R. It established itself as prostitution central that continues to this day. My ex-brother in-law is a merchant marine who hops a ship and only works long enough to pay for 4 to 6 months drinking and whoring in Phuket - then when he's broke, he uses his return ticket to LA and hops another ship. He's been doing this for decades. Many of the poorer families in Thailand send one or more of their daughters to places like Phuket to earn money for the family. It sounds sick to me. I'd clean latrines before I'd send my daughter off to be a hooker, but my ex-BIL says lots of the fathers don't even work if they have a daughter on her back - just drink and gamble it away.

If a good girl were seen with a round-eyed man, Other Thais assume she's a hooker. That's the big issue. I don't think culturally, it's that much different than any other Asian country. Yes, sometimes western men are considered foreign devils, but there has always been pressure to maintain the identity of the group, any group. It persists in America too. See how many 3rd and 4th generation Asians in the US marry only in their race.

[Capstone]

No cap, I don't know her at all, just heard in some emails from my cousins.

I'd say it's not entirely an Asian thing. I suspect it has a LOT to do with Thailand being the sex tourist mecca of southeast Asia, from the many GI sent there during the Vietnam war for R&R. 

Now that does make a lot of sense to me and it is pretty understandable. I don't buy into its entirely an Asian thing too much either as I have not seen that sort of apprehension in China about being seen with/dating/marrying a foreigner. I would say that a respectable Chinese girl would never go against her parents' wishes with regards to who to date and marry but that is not to say that Chinese parents necessarily have a built in negative predisposition about their sons & daughters being with foreigners. My wife's parents are very old school traditional Chinese with my father-in-law being a very proud and long time party member but neither of them had any negative thoughts about the idea of their daughter marrying an American other than the initial worry that she would be safe and well taken care of in a foreign country.

Your explanation rings even more true when I compare it with my experience in China in that unlike Thailand, China was closed to most foreigners for many years and so modern day Chinese people never have had an impression of all westerners being crazed sex tourists, etc.

[z_k_g]

I've had two cousins who were married to Thai women (bar girls).  I saw their lives implode.

They both were ex military and basically married bar girls, prostitutes, Isaans from the northern parts of Thailand.

I will sum up their trainwrecks with a perspective from Stickman's website, its pretty accurate:

"It gets you quite a nice picture of what for many of them (bar girls) is really only an occupation to extract money from people they so unjustifiably see as inferior without the least bit of respect or interest for the individual other than their pretense to care for their farangs' sexual needs and thereby carefully sculpting the illusion of representing the modest and submissive Asian dream wife.

And of course this observation is easily transferable to girls and other Thais you meet in real, where more often than not I could sense deep down a hidden but latent hostility towards us visitors and where I could see less and less of the smiles and hospitality that this country was once famous for. If they realize that you know exactly what is going on and do not intend to play along with the blatant rip-off you will very quickly get an idea of what they really think of you.

There are exceptions to that rule but they are few and far between......"

Bottom line is, No "normal" Thai woman would be seen dead with an farang, he is "not" what she dreams of every night.  It really has nothing to do with you being a farang and everything to do with the Thai culture.

A woman that desires a farang is an exception, and typically a bar girl or prostitute looking for financial gain!

A thai woman wants status and position and security.  NONE of these things a farang can bring her in Thailand.  A farang cannot even tell her he loves her in Thai!  No real communication can take place between a farang and a Thai woman- this is the real kicker.

A Thai woman wants in this order:

1. A Thai man that can bring her status and lots of financial comfort
2. A Thai man that can bring her status and basic comfort
3. A Thai man that can bring her stauts but maybe very little comfort
4. A Thai man that can bring her a little status and little comfort
5. A man/farang/person that can fit her needs

If you are poor Thai from Isaan and have dark skin then the first 4 options are NEVER available to you.  Also you can't rise up in Thailand, your status is always the same, it aint the USA.  Marrying a rich or affluent farang will not raise your status! And no Thai man of status will lower himself and deal with a poor Thai.

The majority of Thai women who seek out and marry farangs are rejects of Thai society.  The women that we call beauties and we see from the Pattaya images on youtube are mostly rural bar girls and prostitutes the no Thai man would ever marry.  

Our idea of a beautiful Thai woman is quite different from what a Thai thinks is beautiful!

Thailand is a beautiful country with a great sex tourism business.  

Go there, enjoy the sex, beaches, food and hospitality.

Just don't marry a Thai woman!

Just one man's opinion.

Zulu

[william3rd]

Thanks for the input. This is what I was talking about - many other people have posted basically the same thing in the past. I would like to know the underlying reason(s) as to why it seems that many respectable Thai women will not consider a Western man for a partner. Is it something that Thai culture generally looks down upon?? If so why? Thanks!

MOST respectable Thai women wouldn't consider a western man and Americans are pretty far down the food chain below Scandinavians, Brits, Aussies, and Zeelanders.

Thai culture has a pecking order starting with Thai, then Chinese, Korean, Lao, etc.

The only Thai woman that would date an American is a prostitute- according to my wife's father. He still hasn't gotten over it although the Grand mothers, mother, and all of their friends disagree with him.
ISSARN girls are typically dark skinned and have little education, since only a 4th grade guaranteed education has been the norm. All the extra years of school are paid for by the family. The older and prettier daughters are sent to work in Bangkok at menial jobs or sold to brothels. Their monthly salary is about $100. They can make that in a night working in a bar or dancing a go go. My son's mom was typical- 13 living brothers and sisters, study by lantern and moonlight, no paved roads, worked two jobs as a bar tender.

They lose face for hooking up with farang except under certain circumstances. Since bar girls have no face, marrying a farang is no big deal.

Bar girls also learn to regularly lie- about their companion (handsome, in love with, etc.), about their lives (went to university, wealthy family, etc) and certainly about their employment ( work as secretary at night).

The key is moving up the food chain. This was impossible a few years ago. But now, the offspring of these prostitutes and Anglos make up most of their  models and movie stars.

Stickman is a pretty good read if you are dealing with bar girls. It is not much help if you move up the food chain. Divorcees can do as they wish.

[Dave H]

As to an "Asian" thing... the Philippines is a totally different ball game from Thailand or elsewhere! I see and hear jealousy from Filipinas (from all economic levels and ages) all the time, because they want a Kano.  Most Filipino (men) could care less and don't get a bruised ego like many Latinos. Filipino parents are usually happy...of  course, some for expected financial gains. But, many believe that Kanos make very good husbands and fathers (not always true in reality). They also feel that their grandchildren will be well taken are of, have more opportunities and a better future, and want mestizo grandchildren.

Of course the few commies, leftists, femNazi here would like you to believe differently!

Dave

[z_k_g]

As to an "Asian" thing... the Philippines is a totally different ball game from Thailand or elsewhere! I see and hear jealousy from Filipinas (from all economic levels and ages) all the time, because they want a Kano.  Most Filipino (men) could care less and don't get a bruised ego like many Latinos. Filipino parents are usually happy...of  course, some for expected financial gains. But, many believe that Kanos make very good husbands and fathers (not always true in reality). They also feel that their grandchildren will be well taken are of, have more opportunities and a better future, and want mestizo grandchildren.

I agree, different game, different country, different rules, different women!!

Of course the few commies, leftists, femNazi here would like you to believe differently!

Dave

ROTFLMAO!!!! 

[Dave H]

There are a few exceptions in the Philippines. There are many Chinese-Filipino family "dynasties" here. I have a Chinese Filipina friend who is a dentist. Her mother was born in the Philippines to Chinese immigrant parents. Her father immigrated to the Philippines from China. A wealthy Filipino businessman wanted to court her for many years. Her Chinese born  father would not allow it! Like many Chinese in the Philippines, he wanted her to marry a Chinese Filipino or at least someone with mostly Chinese blood.  After her father died, the Filipino was able to court and eventually marry her. Both were in their thirties by that time.

I am not sure how Chinese Filipinos feel about their daughters marrying Kanos? Probably not as big an issue for subsequent generations that were born in the Philippines.

Dave

[michaelb]

Bar girls also learn to regularly lie- about their companion (handsome, in love with, etc.), about their lives (went to university, wealthy family, etc) and certainly about their employment ( work as secretary at night).

I Mee-ling, I good girl, I virgin. My father own five houses. 

(I always liked her friend Gwennie Lee)

[Dave H]

I Mee-ling, I good girl, I virgin. My father own five houses.  

(I always liked her friend Gwennie Lee)

...and more cars than she could count. Ah yes...The World of Suzie Wong!

I myself, was more into "Minnie Ho!" Should "Ho" be plural?

[Capstone]

Thanks for all the replies guys, I have a better understanding of why respectable Thai women find it hard to consider a Western man as a partner. This exists in every Asian country (actually any country for that matter) to some extent but it appears as though it is much more prevalent in Thailand than in most other countries.

[piglett]

Well this thread does shed some light on this subject doesn't it.

So William how is it that you landed your wife?

I know you have been in & out of Thailand for many yours & know the "lay of the land"

Being so experienced I would think you would marry a bar girl so what's the deal with your wife?

can i ask what her situation was? i would guess it to have been non-typical

thanks
piglett
 

[Celtic_Jorge]

I would actually consider marrying a bar girl in Thailand if I was LIVING IN THAILAND and there was no issue of her getting a visa whatsoever... She knew I was broke and teaching English (Eng teachers make what, 10,000 baht a month if they're lucky???), and she stopped selling her body.

I know there's a lot of money in that (prostitution), at least for them, but they must get tired of it, and get lonely, eventually.

Anyway this scenario would never play out for me in Thailand anyway because I'm never going to move there anyway!!!!!!!

[z_k_g]

I would actually consider marrying a bar girl in Thailand........

Are you serious?  Would you go down to skid row and marry a prostitute in downtown Washington DC?   Are you freakin nuts!! 

Bar Girl = Hooker = Prostitute

They never stop, you would be knowingly signing up for a train wreck!!!

Zulu

[Celtic_Jorge]

Well Zuku,

The point is, if she knew I had no money to offer her, and I wasn't taking her with me back to the USA or the U.K., and I was DEFINITELY staying in Thailand, so therefor had nothing to offer her but companionship... I mean, what else would she be looking to get from me?

Besides maybe kidnapping me and taking me out into the jungles of Cambodia for ransom from my family?   

[william3rd]

Well this thread does shed some light on this subject doesn't it.

So William how is it that you landed your wife?

I know you have been in & out of Thailand for many yours & know the "lay of the land"

Being so experienced I would think you would marry a bar girl so what's the deal with your wife?

can i ask what her situation was? i would guess it to have been non-typical

thanks
piglett
 

I previously got sucked in by a bar girl. Best actress around. She is currently living with some gothic mexican guy and his 4 friends while she works massage and cuts hair when she can get clients.

This time I joined Thai Love Links and started going on line daily. I went over to thaland to meet two of the girls and declined to communicate with my now wife. When I returned to the US, I communicated with my wife and we moved off the site to private emails and then web cams right away. She was divorced with children. Wealthy family. The nice thing about web cams is that I met her mother and grandmother on line and could see the living room of their house. After a couple of months of communications daily via cam and telephone, I could tell she was falling for me and I was falling for her.  WHen I went over after 4 months of communications I could tell by her body language that she was  really in to me. That was the beginning. Several of her friends were doing the same thing. All divorcees. most of her friends have found  men. THe guys are from canada, norway, sweden, denmark, England AUstralia. There are also 3 americans including my self. The others are from Florida and Georgia.

[piglett]

I previously got sucked in by a bar girl. Best actress around. She is currently living with some gothic mexican guy and his 4 friends while she works massage and cuts hair when she can get clients.

This time I joined Thai Love Links and started going on line daily. I went over to thaland to meet two of the girls and declined to communicate with my now wife. When I returned to the US, I communicated with my wife and we moved off the site to private emails and then web cams right away. She was divorced with children. Wealthy family. The nice thing about web cams is that I met her mother and grandmother on line and could see the living room of their house. After a couple of months of communications daily via cam and telephone, I could tell she was falling for me and I was falling for her.  WHen I went over after 4 months of communications I could tell by her body language that she was  really in to me. That was the beginning. Several of her friends were doing the same thing. All divorcees. most of her friends have found  men. THe guys are from canada, norway, sweden, denmark, England AUstralia. There are also 3 americans including my self. The others are from Florida and Georgia.

A-haaa well i knew that you had been married to a Thai before but i myself have never heard the whole story till now, so thanks. I would guess that you have told your story before but i never saw it posted.
so if a Thai chick it divorced then no Thai man wants her ....... sounds a lot like the Philippines.

so how many more years before you retire in Thailand?
I know you have a house there are you at least spending a couple of months a year there?
My wife & I have talked about buying land in a couple of years in her province but......
i'm a bit worried about having 1/2 of the town banging on my front door asking to borrow money.
maybe the other side of the island ( it's a 2 hour drive on a motor bike)
or a near by island could foot the bill.
The good news is that i still have 20 or more years to figure it all out.


piglett

[william3rd]

This is my third thai-first,  my son's mother, second, a thai prostitute, and third, my current wife.

son's mother- Issarn girl from Sri Saket, big farmer family, working in BKK bartending. Probably prostituted as a secondary income source for her family. Only met the family on the day of our wedding ceremony in her home town.


the prostitute- from Sakhon Nakorn, "working" in BKK. Claimed to own a tailor shop with a dozen employees. Never took me to the shop, claimed she sold it to her partner, and during our BKK ceremony, none of the "employees" came to the wedding. Neither did her partner.  Major red flag but who was thinking? The shop never existed.

Met her mother and father on the day of the ceremony and father was really really really unhappy. Think " the only Thai woman who would marry a farang is. . . . ."

 Lynn is currently living in a small apartment in Burbank with a bunch of Goths. She sure moved up in the world. . . .

Current wife- wealthy family, 100 close friends and family at wedding ceremony or after party, nine monks for blessings including a famous monk.

The stigma of foreign marriage is not as great as even 10 years ago but the oldtimers still think that way and tongues wag.

BTW- the decent Thais will go with personal introduction services like Sweet Singles, they love the Internet matchmaking like ThaiLove Links and wouldnt be caught dead in a "social."  And, if you think that a decent Thai woman would be out showing her new male friend the countryside like certain scumbag romance tour agencies advertise, it doesnt happen, ever. Prostitutes will.


I will be here a few more years. The kid is a junior and we are hearing from colleges about potential athletic scholarships. If he has a good season, then the chances of going to school on an athletic scholarship is a real possibility. His 4.0 grade point average isnt going to hurt him either. He got hellos from seven univiersities so far. They cant talk to him until after September 1.

I am looking at spending a month or two a year over there. Even after retirement, I will probably look at 50/50.

[z_k_g]

Well Zuku,

The point is, if she knew I had no money to offer her, and I wasn't taking her with me back to the USA or the U.K., and I was DEFINITELY staying in Thailand, so therefor had nothing to offer her but companionship... I mean, what else would she be looking to get from me?

Besides maybe kidnapping me and taking me out into the jungles of Cambodia for ransom from my family?  

I just don't get that!  Maybe its just me, but, no matter how good they look they are still prostitutes and will NEVER change.  Did you get the NEVER part?

You will NOT be the only one banging her!!  Maybe a few hundred guys a year!  Jesus H Christ!  Just the fear of STD's alone would scare me, not to mention the drama that goes with dealing with hookers!

I guess I'm old fashioned!

To each his own

Zulu

[piglett]

Met her mother and father on the day of the ceremony and father was really really really unhappy. Think " the only Thai woman who would marry a farang is. . . . ."

what was the problem ? was he worried that you were going to take his "revenue stream" far far away? hell he probably was the one who sold her to the cat house in the 1st place so he could drink beer & gamble.

 
[quote author=william3rd link=topic=5518.msg67031#msg67031 date=128101430
Current wife- wealthy family, 100 close friends and family at wedding ceremony or after party, nine monks for blessings including a famous monk.

The stigma of foreign marriage is not as great as even 10 years ago but the oldtimers still think that way and tongues wag.

BTW- the decent Thais will go with personal introduction services like Sweet Singles, they love the Internet matchmaking like ThaiLove Links and wouldnt be caught dead in a "social."  And, if you think that a decent Thai woman would be out showing her new male friend the countryside like certain scumbag romance tour agencies advertise, it doesnt happen, ever. Prostitutes will.[/quote] so there are quality ladies there, you just need to get "schooled" or you will probably get the type of woman you won't like.

[quote author=william3rd link=topic=5518.msg67031#msg67031 date=128101430
I will be here a few more years. The kid is a junior and we are hearing from colleges about potential athletic scholarships. If he has a good season, then the chances of going to school on an athletic scholarship is a real possibility. His 4.0 grade point average isnt going to hurt him either. He got hellos from seven univiersities so far. They cant talk to him until after September 1.

I am looking at spending a month or two a year over there. Even after retirement, I will probably look at 50/50.
[/quote]does your son intend to follow in your footsteps & become a lawyer?
I would guess with your inlaws there being well off the # of requests for money will be few.

Marily starts her review class on Aug 9TH. she has been paying for her dads meds & intend to pay for her youngest brothers collage tuition this fall but she will not be going back 2 work till the end of the year.

I have already agreed to pay the $65 bucks a month for her brother tuition , but i knew nothing about her footing the bill for the meds till last night when we were texting on Chikka.

I had hoped that having a talk directly with her parents would have shielded me from "most" cash layouts to the family till Marily arrived her & began working.

piglett