Last Night I Had An Epiphany

[throwawaydad]

It’s funny what one realizes with the passage of time.

When I was first married, my ex-wife had a childhood friend who was married as well.  Nice couple…she’s a Nurse, he’s in the Construction Trades.  This guy was a Man’s Man.  When we had our first house, he never hesitated to offer physical help.  Good, good guy.  When they bought their first house, he sold marijuana to finance the down payment.  When he got the down payment, he stopped selling. 

Simple enough.

A Man’s gotta do what a Man’s gotta do.

Everyone’s busy with their careers…I’m flying my ass off, and lose touch with Joe.  These things happen.  Life gets in the way.  A few months later, my ex-wife gives me the news:

“Joe and Mary are getting a divorce.”

I give it a few days, and then call Joe.  No answer, so I leave a message.  No callback.

About a month goes by, and I ask my ex-wife about Joe & Mary.  She tells me all about Mary.  That’s fine. But when I ask about Joe, she stonewalls me.

“What’s he doing?”
“I don’t know.”

“Where’s he at?”
“I don’t know.”

“Why don’t you ask Mary, I’d like to chat with him.”
“No.”

At the time I didn’t have a clue what was happening, but now I do.

Joe was a throwaway husband, a throwaway father.

Basically, the same thing happened to me.

After our divorce, visitation was a struggle.  Remember earlier, I spent almost 2 years playing Mr. Mom?  How could this happen?  The girls are always happy to go to Dad’s house and spend the weekend.  One adventure after another.  I still can hear the cheery “Hi Dad!” when I’d meet them at the door.  I lived in an affluent neighborhood and one Halloween we went trick-or-treating.  It was a weekend, and folks were pulling out all the stops.  The girls loved it.

When Mom came by to pick them up, they begged for a little more time on the street.  After about 30 minutes, Mom could abide it no longer, and pulled the plug on their Halloween hijinks.

A couple of months earlier, I decided that the girls needed bikes.  ALL kids have bikes, No?  We walk into the Village, and go into the Bike Store.  The owner knows me by name, (I bought my bike there), and my girls by sight…it reminds me of a situation when we would go into shops and the proprietors would call my girls by their first names.  In one upscale shop the owner pulled me aside.

“You know, we NEVER let children wander.  But your girls are so well behaved.  Most kids that come here with their parents are dreadful.”

…Back to the Bike Store

“You know, Mr. X…we’ve been looking at bikes through the window for a while and we’ve decided that today is the day.  Can you help us?”

He fitted them for helmets (my oldest chose the “cool” one, and her little sister chose the “girly” style) and we started looking @ bikes.  Girls are girls are girls and the selection process takes time.  Mr. X is incredibly patient with the girls and the comfort level is high.

Finally a choice is made.

“Are you certain?  It’s alright to take a second look.”

They throw the kickstands down and walk through the selection.  THIS doesn’t take long.

“We like these Dad.”

“Let’s do it then.”

Pull out the plastic, and $600 dollars later the girls are set.

At first the bikes stay with me.  But summer is passing quickly and one day I collar the girls and talk to them about “choices”.

“You know, you only see me two days a week, and sometimes we don’t go riding at all.  Since you spend 5 days a week at your Mother’s would you get more use of your bikes there?

The logic kicks in and of course they say, “Yes”.  We call Mom and let her know to allow room in her SUV.

Mom just sighs.

A few months later it’s October, and I ask the girls if they’re riding their bikes?

“Not so much.”

“Why not?”

“The tires need air.”

“Did you tell your Mom?”

“She said she doesn’t have the time.”

I didn’t understand it at the time, or perhaps (probably) I was just in Denial.  My ex-wife was going to do everything in her power to minimize, demonize and marginalize me, along with the relationship I had with my own children.

I too, am a throw-away-father.

Fast-forward a few years and my oldest daughter is attending what is most likely one of the top 200 High Schools in the country.

A really, really smart, talented girl, but she struggles with ALL her classes.  Acts out, and even more startling, contact with Law Enforcement.

As always I am the refuge of last resort…nobody wants me until the sh1t is on fire.

I get a call from a Counselor.  “There’s going to be a meeting…we need you there.”

“Who else will be attending?”

She reads the names.

“So I am the ONLY person there that was born with a penis?”

That is the LAST thing she expected.

“When you find a Man or two, call me back.”

Finally my Daughter DROPS OUT from High School.  In an era when a Bachelors Degree carries the same weight as a High School Diploma, a smart girl didn’t even finish High School.  This CAN’T be good.

So I’ve made a decision…I’ve sent one of the Global Moderators a message and they’ve encouraged me to post this.

From now on, my name is no longer doesntlookgood / DLG

My new name is throwawayfather / TAF.

Later today, I'll change my account or kill the old account and re-register.

I had a good cry last night.

Long after we're all gone, Sociologists will look at situations like this and shake their collective heads.

And outsiders wonder why guys like us are trying to reboot our lives…

[Henry]

Sorry to hear about this, DLG/Throwawaydad.

I think this is relatively common place nowadays. They dont really care about you as a person. They just care about what you can provide. That is legitimacy at the beginning and then continual child support after they are tired of you.

Anyhow, this is one of the things that has ruined the Black community as well: Matriarchy. Statistics show that it is mostly fathers who keep children in line. When Mothers are rewarded by default custody, easy divorce, child support / welfare, drop out rates skyrocket, suicide rates skyrocket, crime rates. Basically everything bad.

 The Garbage Generation
By Daniel Amneus
   


This book outlines the consequences of the destruction of the two-parent family and the need to stabilize it by strengthening its weakest natural link, the role of the biological father. It is written from a secular perspective and includes a few things with which the owner of the Fish Eaters Website would definitely quibble. But it most certainly makes its case about the need for patriarchy, destroying the myth of women being innocent, sexless little fluffballs in the process -- a quite necessary destruction in that reaching the goal of chastity shouldn't be based on lies and pious tales about the reality of human nature -- women being a little more than half of all humans. Failure to deal with actual human nature, rather than sentimentalized versions of it, can only lead to failure, resentment, neuroses, and backlash.

At any rate, this book is must-reading for all who are concerned about the future of Western civilization -- and is definitely the book to give to the radical feminist who decries "the evils of the patriarchy" (which is not at all to belittle real evils suffered by women at the hands of those with sentimentalized, condescending, un-Catholic attitudes towards them).

Before going on to the book, just think of what our culture is like --- the Maury Povich "Who My Baby Daddy" shows with the paternity tests given to ten different men in an attempt to find out who a child's father is, the newspaper birth announcements which amount to lists of names of single women... How far we've fallen.  

http://www.fisheaters.com/garbagegeneration.html

[robert angel]

DLG/TAD,

My, that certainly sounds familiar. I was married the first time for 14 years. I basically worked 7:00 AM to 4:00 PM, Monday through Friday. My then wife (ex from here on) worked 12 hour shifts, from 7:00 to 7:00, on Friday, Saturday and Sundays and rarely got home before 8:30 PM.

We really didn't see each other much, obviously.

Mondays through Thursdays, she'd usually nap from 4 to about 7PM for 'her health'. Meanwhile, I made sure the boys had dinner, got their homework done, got to band, Boy Scouts, soccer, baseball, birth day parties, stayed on Honor Roll at school, attended conferences, recitals, games, practices etc.

As such, I watched the kids every Fri. Sat. & Sun for 13 years and pretty much during the week days too. I was home alone when they said their first words: 'Dad' and 'ight' for 'light' and their first steps as babies, then toddlers. Taught them how to play 'catch' and ride bikes.

When summer would come around, my ex would absolutely insist that the kids attend day camps at expensive, exclusive facilities. Most of the kids in our neighborhood then where much older and yes, the boys did need to be around kids more their own age--maybe for 2-3 days a week for more 'socialization', but I wasn't going to fight with her in front of the kids over a couple extra days. To be honest--I needed a break too.

Well, years later, we go to divorce court and the lawyers (both HERS and mine!!) decided that the best arrangement was for me to have the kids every Monday, Wed. & Fri. from after school until 7:30--8:00.

Initially it was 7:30, but we got tired of waiting in the driveway for her to get home, so it became 'eightish'. This allowed just enough time for me to take care of baths, homework and dinner and for me to drive them 'home' clean and ready for their mom to put them to bed.


I don't have any family anywhere near where we live to help out and I ended up buying a home less than a mile from our original 'marital domicile' for the benefit of the children.


That was just weekdays. I also was granted custody of the children two of every three weekends a month, from Friday after school until Monday at 7:30 to around 8:00 PM. After the ink was dry on the legal papers, my ex gleefully explained to me 'That basically means you have them all but one weekend a month". She was always good with math and money.

The decree stipulated that my ex and I would each have two consecutive weeks with the kids a year for 'separate vacation time' and alternate holidays. So I still have a total of two weeks off w/o kids --at least legally, each year.

Not exactly the best scenario for a newly single Dad who might like to get out and date some woman--maybe dinner and movie on a Fri. or Sat night--well, at least on the one a month I had w/o kids in tow. Even on that weekend, the boys would call me on my cell phone to make sure I was 'OK"--haha.I guess I wasn't much of a 'catch' to the babes out there..

And it certainly took a an extraordinary woman like my now wife to agree to walk into such a situation, when she had the likes of medical surgeons, pilots and others interested in her --a lovely single woman w/o any children from a highly respected family and with a successful career, working as a computer engineer for Coca Cola in the Philippines. She didn't need any of my drama!

My ex's lawyer volunteered that as it seemed I had a disproportionate amount of 'responsibility intense time' with the kids, that my ex pay me a small amount of support each month. My ex was an orphan who knew nothing but poverty and abuse back in the Philippines. Now she had the big house and land (which she still has) the gold Rolex watch, luxury car, pearls, diamonds, timeshares, stocks and bonds, etc. But I KNEW that if she had to write me a check--never mind that her lawyer merely suggest $150 a month, --if she had to do that--there'd never be peace between us---no civil conversation and it would effect my son's perception of how male and females act or are supposed to act.

So I turned the offer down, although I could've gotten more money than that. We did have to split up some home equity and 401K money and because of that--12 years plus later--she still hates me and doesn't hide that in front of the boys. The only thing I got out of that house besides very minimal equity, was my clothes, fishing gear, tools, tooth brush and a TV cabinet. I had to start over from scratch on everything else.

This is a woman who never told me she was going to be deported if she didn't marry me--who faced going back to nothing but more poverty and misery, because back then, nurses were only allowed here on 3 year visas and she had long overstayed hers. She only told me later on in a rage, to spite me. So much for truth, loyalty and gratittude. It took me years and the births of two children fror me to find out I had basically been used. Sometimes, the worse lies are things you're never told or are told too late.

Bicycles...My ex never saw much need for them--they weren't something she was familiar with. Every 2 or 3 years, I'd get each son a new one. Like the Nintendo Gamecube, the Game Boy, Game Boy Advance and Gameboy DSs, Sony Play Station, like the Nintendo Wii, Nintendo Rock band w/ instruments--they all ended up at the 'Mom's house'. I paid for all and as she wouldn't even buy an air pump, the bike's tires would deflate and then dry rot. I finally even got bikes for both houses. I drew the line on the X Box game platform finally--that stays at my house.

Back to me giving up my ex sending me some pittance of a monthly payment and my rejecting it in the hope of a better relationship for the kid's sake? It never happened. She's still an antisocial, secretive and selfish woman, more into 'things' than people.

I imagine some of the guys--if anybody's reading this sordid tale, are wondering 'Why didn't he take her to court--why didn't he just get full custody and the money? The legal system is a morass and the long, drawn out outcome would probably have been just as unsatisfactory as the original and created even more bad blood and damaged the children, who were already torn up by the situation.

I don't slag their mother and in fairness, she does insist that they have manners and apply themselves in school. She's become more involved in their lives, especially my 13 y/o son's, lately. I don't want them to feel she's some terrible woman because of anything I say or do or try and state some case based on our history to children. I'll leave the bones buried from them. Some day, they'll make conclusions of their own, one way or another, I guess.

There comes a time where you need to suck it up, accept what life's thrown at you, move on and try to make the most of it. No--it wasn't that easy--not that 'cut and dry'--in fact, for the only time in my life, I actually experienced 'clinical depression' for a while--going from 230 to 155 pounds. I never really believed people were clinically depressed--I thought that was all BS. Not always--it can be real as rain, as I found out when I watched the world my kids thought was normal and wonderful, get torn asunder and them terrified and uncertain for the first time. And I felt that I was to blame.

I haven't always made the best moves and this is just my side of the story, but hey, I know I tried, and that's what counts. And the kid's are alright.

[Jeff S]

So your ex was a Filipina too?

[whitey]

Damn, I really feel for you guys, DLG and Robert.

Your stories make my divorce after 20 years seem like a cake walk.  I know how it feels to be a wallet and to deal with years of disrespect in front of the kids, but nothing as bad as what you've had to go through.

Hang in there ... wish I could think of something less lame to say ... sounds like you both maintained your honor and do your best for the kids ...

[robert angel]

Yea Jeff--I just added some edits. I didn't know they had much of any social services in the RP, (Naga City) but her family was very poor apparently, and with too many mouths to feed, she was left to die--wasn't fed. I hear the govt rescued her and she went from there to distant relative to distant relative, pretty much kicked around, abused and used as a servant. She was in a monastery as a servant for a while and that was awful. She is a very quiet and a secretive, stubborn person and pretty much what I am recalling was bits and pieces she's occasionally share. In over ten years since the divorce, she's never dated and only keeps two close friends. Oddly--they're both loving to me still, they're fellow Filipina nurses and their families--but my ex is not as warm, obviously.

Counseling--Psychologists, etc were a total waste of time in our case. I did find one priest who was pretty cool--a modern, realistic kind of priest who I saw solo who helped me a deal a little better, but other than him, the Catholic church was less than useful to be blunt.

I'd still recommend trying counseling if it's  in good faith with effort for married couples in crisis--especially--especially--if there's kids involved. Our marriage wasn't a violent loud affair--it was an icy cold distant one with no infidelity. Stupid as it might sound, I would've sadistically stuck it out until the kids were grown. My sons thought that parents who just don't talk much but never fight in front of them was a 'normal' situation and they were very happy. Our friends and neighbors thought we were the perfect, handsome successful family--the last family they'd have expected to see a divorce. We'd have parties, entertain--have sleepovers galore for the kids--all that stuff.

Back then, when the kids had to pick a house to sleep over at--it was always our house. ha ha--this past weekend, my current (2nd) wife and I had four thirteen year olds sleep over, so I guess somethings don't change too much--they stayed for two days, until I drove them all home!!--lol You'd think they'd have played video games , ie 'Modern Warfare' most of the time. But no, my son doesn't like karaoke, but his buddies--they loved that sappy, sweet, sickening 'Magic Sing' Filipino karaoke machine--if you want to laugh or cry--watch 13 y/o's go between doing Sinatra, the 'Police' and Journey, etc. Three gallons of milk, a couple cases of soda pop later, the pantry, refrigerator and freezer emptied of the 'good food'--they were gone, leaving a pile of wet towels and bathing suits. Hey, at least they helped clean up...

When my ex and I were courting--she'd moved from Texas to a hospital in the South East and seemed pretty sweet, cheerful and loving and she pampered me to no end, but as I realized much, much later, her visa had expired and she really needed to get married. If she had told me of her legal problems, I still would've married her, hell, back then, I could've had them fixed with one phone call to DC from my family--we really did love each other.

I just would never recommend marrying someone because you feel sorry for them or their situation. There has to be more substance than that. A pity party does not a marriage make.

She caught a break when she connected with someone who actually put her through nursing school and paid her way to the USA, setting up intially a three year work agreement that had, I believe one extension before things got dicey and she faced deportation, despite becoming a top notch, well respected, nationally certified, critical care cardiac RN. For almost 25 years--long after she became a legal US citizen she didn't go back to the Philippines, although she could easily afford to. She refused to teach our sons Tagalog.

She finally went back with our sons a couple years back. I guess in a way, it was probably like a former Vietnam era prisoner of war US Soldier, going back to Vietnam all those years later...

[Henry]

Good post, Rob!!

[piglett]

Wow Robert after reading post like that it makes me so glad that i never married till i found the rite one for me.


piglett

[braziliangirl]

It's kind of the situation here. We are having more and more problems because the family values are being forgotten. But most of the times, it's the guys fault. They don't want the head/provider or even the husband/father role anymore...

Robert, would you mind tell me a little more about your ex? Where did you meet her? I'm sad that she got 'americanized'....

[z_k_g]

Robert,

Great story.  I hope others can learn from your experience, I know I have.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

And outsiders wonder why guys like us are trying to reboot our lives…

I feel your pain, my experience was very similar.  A throwaway husband, has a familiar ring to it!  :-(

Well, I was told by an old chinese philosopher,

"Life sucks, you marry a bitch then you die"

Zulu

[Jeff S]

Well, that clears some things up Robert. Sorry to hear of your woes. I'm curious if you felt like you were rescuing her at first - the white knight and all that? Was she a damsel in distress?

http://www.drlaurablog.com/2009/06/24/not-everything-can-be-fixed/

[robert angel]

Hi Braziliangirl,

I met my ex while hanging around with one of my best friends,Rick. Rick was dating a few ladies who were 'traveling nurses'. Most of them were from overseas, some were N. American born and raised. As I recall, they usually worked about six months at a place then moved on. My ex wife had nursing position that wasn't of the 'traveling variety' in that I don't think it had any definite end date before she had to move on--or if she did, it was probably 3 years, I guess. She'd worked in a town called Plano, Texas for a few years, but I guess her contract expired. Where I live is really quite beautiful and she just decided if they'd hire her here, it'd be a lovely place to live and warm year round as well. She really took to N. American life quickly and it seemed a lot more appealing to her than Texas.

It sounds silly that I don't know, but I would assume the hospital here checked her immigration status and she must have told them she had a lawyer and it was being fixed if they asked. Nurses were in high demand then. In fact I found out later that she did have an attorney--a married immigration attorney who was screwing a Filipina nurse friend of hers and  probably any other woman he could nail as well.

Well, my ex hung out some with those 'traveling nurses' after she came to my town and I think even to this day, traveling nurses have a reputation as being, shall we say 'adventurous' --even wild women at times. They liked to go to night clubs after work and they'd drag my ex along, as they tried to hunt handsome guys and I guess my ex came along to hunt for a husband.

Rick and I would paint the town red--Ricky's is just the nicest, most charming guy you could hope to meet, a talented artist, businessman and expert magician and to go out with him, women would literally gather around to watch him and be entertained.  I had restaurant connections, Rick had entertainment connections and any place, night club, concert, etc that was 'happening' would let us in free. We rarely paid for anything except to tip. It seemed like we had the world on a string.

This was the mid 1980's, before AIDs really put a damper on being wild and, well, things sometimes got wild. A couple of the traveling nurses had the hots for me, but I basically was kind of cool and tried steering them back to my buddy Rick. The nurses, realizing I wasn't just going to screw each one of them, in turn, steered me to my ex. who in marked comparison, was a pretty, sort of skinny quiet young lady who was very quiet. There were a couple of those traveling nurses--especially one Irish and one Australian gal, who were sexy as all get out, but I usually don't follow the normal, logical path. I was kind of intrigued with that quiet Filipina. Here was a girl who didn't just jump in my lap!

It wasn't love at first sight, or even much in the way of fireworks the first few dates for me, but I'd already had Filipino friends and been in their circles, there was a bit of a comfort zone. After the girls gave me her phone number, and I called my her, she began calling me, something that was very hard for her to do, I'm sure. Those other nurses would have had an easier time undressing me in my car and giving the both of us full service tune ups than her picking up the phone. She was very shy, even if she had a plan.

So my ex was more subtle to put it mildly. But with each date, we went a bit farther, literally and figuratively. From the local seashore, we started traveling to other sea side towns, staying in hotels together. She was attentive and pleasant and generous to a fault. I mentioned how neat the then fairly new cordless phone technology was and the next day,  she had one gift wrapped for me. Cards, clothes, etc.

What really hooked me though was when the rear tires on my sports car were getting a little thin and she 'had to borrow my car' for a while and brought it back with new tires. I mentioned it to my Mom and she basically said "Honey--a girl can buy you clothes, flowers send you cards--many things--but if that girl put TIRES on your car to keep you safe, I think I like her". It wasn't just the gifts. I had dated, especially in college, some girls that had so much money they probably couldn't spend the interest it earned and they didn't impress me for long. This was a person who didn't have a lot, and came from even less but shared, who listened, cooked, seemed to care and seemed stable--or so I thought.

We were basically living at each other's apartments by this time and in what proved to be a very crafty move on her part, we began looking at houses as lovers often do and we found one and before we even were engaged, we cribbed enough cash together to buy it. It would've been very hard to slow the momentum moving towards marriage at that point and I never should've let that happen.

Part of the reason I chose to get married was because I was approaching age 30 and I thought that was a good time to 'settle down'. I was perfectly healthy but I was living very fast and deep inside, I thought 'And she's a nurse--we'll have a healthy lifestyle'. I wasn't thinking as correctly as I should've been. I thinking more about timing and practicality than how much I really loved her and long term compatibility. When I asked her to marry me at table # 13 at the best restaurant in the south eastern USA. (Why they chose the number 13 as their best table, I have NO idea) I hadn't known her even a year.


I told my best friend and partner in crime, Rick (Rickskie--I'm Robskie) the news, asking him to be my best man in the wedding. After all, he was there when we first met. He told me "Eh, Robskie--you know I love you like a brother, and I hate to tell you this--but I don't think she's right for you. I'd be happy to attend, but I don't think I could in good conscience act as your best man". If that wasn't enough, I conferred with my older sister, and told her that I was going to marry this woman, but that there was another woman from not so long ago that I had also strongly considered and I knew I had to clearly make a break one way or another. My sister cautioned me, but I didn't wait. Looking back, as I've told people here, to have as good an idea as you can have as to whether a relationship's going to work, it usually takes time. Either way, it can go wrong, but allowing extra time never has been the cause of a failed marriage, I don't think. And if you ask those close to you for advice, listen to what they say.

[Henry]

RA, maybe you should blog your posts, and put a link in your sig.

[fathertime]

Wow throwawaydad that is a miserable story, but thanks for telling it!  Don’t take anything I say personal, as I think you are likely a fine man who did the best he could.  

    If I had sat by passively my experience could be similar to yours… I fight verbally, I fight in the courts, I fought using the same tactics the ex-wife did, and ultimately I fight extended family with my fists.  I don’t like it, but just simply won’t let the kids and I get crapped on. The court papers say one thing, but I turn around and do another thing entirely because I know what is best for my kids, not some 'detached judge'. I found this technique works because after a point, people realize there will be a fight and they are on their toes and not looking to create a problem.  This technique isn’t for everybody, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to be a ‘throwawayfather’.  Those that divorce should be aware that in many cases simply reacting and accepting bs, will turn you into a ‘throwawayfather’ too!   Sometimes you gotta fight, if you do it well and consistently you can't help but get 'some space' and a certain respect from the ex wives. Well at least that is my experience.  

My kids are excellent students and come by the house just about every day…so far so good…knock on wood.

Thanks again for the story, and you to Robert A.

Fathertime!

[jm21-2]

When I started my practice I was pretty optimistic about dad's rights. That faded pretty quickly....

[z_k_g]

Sometimes you gotta fight, if you do it well and consistently you can't help but get 'some space' and a certain respect from the ex wives. Well at least that is my experience.  

I really feel what you are saying.....but It just ain't that easy.

I've been there and done that and fighting the system is like going to the beach to stop the waves.  You can try in earnest but in the end the waves win.

In your case, relatively speaking, it might have been a stream and you were able to block the stream, kick some ass and celebrate the win.  Happy for ya!

But in most other cases its a fu*cking tidal wave and you have not only the ex to contend with but the judiciary, the cops and children services, everyone is against you.  Its very overwhelming, and fight as you may, they have already decided you will lose even if they have to change the rules and lie to get the win. You are hit from every side!

Sometimes its best to make a retreat, lick your wounds and leave your big guns and hard fought bounty on the battle field.  They make it impossible to "win" and even if you do win you still lose- like your kids will get screwed up, if that makes any sense.

If I had only known what was in store for me in our judiciary once I ended my relationship with an AmW!  Hell on earth!  

Never again!

It really pains me to hear the stories here because they are so similar to my story.  I think that is why I try to contribute my wisdom on P-L so no other honest guy will have to suffer needlessly.   I have always treated my woman like a queen, she gets nothing less than my best and I expect the same in return, I'm not perfect, but I'm a good guy with a big heart.

Plus, I know men that treat their women like crap.  As far as I'm concerned those guys get what they deserve.  But good guys should not have to suffer at the hands of an overzealous man-hating court system.

I really don't see things changing anytime in our courts or the unfair man-hating pendulum swinging back to equilibrium anytime soon.  Can I change the system? Hell no, I'm pragmatic.  I'm not the type that gets involved in political action movements and expect the laws to suddenly change overnight, this unfairness is here to stay.

I will say that not all AmW are bad.  But even the good ones participate and benefit from the jacked up system, so you really can't win.  I mean, if you divorce your wife, and she is a decent human, when the lawyers, the judge and her bitch friends finish with her she will be no different from all the other man haters out there!  You get the exact same meat grinder as the guy who is the wife beater.

You WILL still get screwed in the end.  You WILL lose!

Well, we do have some recourse- a light at the end of the tunnel!  

We don't have to marry AmW!  

American men have the option of finding a foreign wife.  Of course nothing is just that perfect, there are all types of perils and pitfalls associated with a foreign bride.  However, with much care and planning, those negative aspects can be minimized and mitigated to a point where the good outweighs the negative considerably.  

I will go even further to suggest that, barring your foreign bride steals your children, there is noting quite a devastating as an American court of law, the man-rape never seems to end.  

I'll take my risks with the potential scammers, green card queens and "million" dollar baby mamas!

Fight system and win here in America?

I'll pass.

Zulu

[jm21-2]

Foreign wives can do just as much damage as domestic ones, arguably more because they have the added pity factor of a foreign woman brought to a strange land. Maybe she's less able to support herself because she doesn't speak English well or her education is not as relevant.

And if you think foreign women don't ever divorce their husbands, think again.

[z_k_g]

Foreign wives can do just as much damage as domestic ones, arguably more because they have the added pity factor of a foreign woman brought to a strange land. Maybe she's less able to support herself because she doesn't speak English well or her education is not as relevant.

And if you think foreign women don't ever divorce their husbands, think again.

Agreed.

Zulu

[fathertime]

hey zulukong,

i must have lucked out...i've fought many battles...i must have wore the other side out...my number may come up some day, but meanwhile i have the hearts and minds of the kids...that makes it a very tough battle for ex and one she won't bother to fight as it is pointless to try to suck cash from me...

for some men this is the best alternative...i hear you though about getting hit from all sides through the court system...i guess i personally have played the game pretty well and walked the fine lines, as i have never suffered the repercussions that could have come my way...

fathertime!

[z_k_g]

hey zulukong,

i must have lucked out...i've fought many battles...i must have wore the other side out...my number may come up some day, but meanwhile i have the hearts and minds of the kids...that makes it a very tough battle for ex and one she won't bother to fight as it is pointless to try to suck cash from me...

for some men this is the best alternative...i hear you though about getting hit from all sides through the court system...i guess i personally have played the game pretty well and walked the fine lines, as i have never suffered the repercussions that could have come my way...

fathertime!

Lucky bastard!! 

Zulu

[Henry]

I will say that not all AmW are bad.

That's OK. I will say it. ALL AWs ARE BAD. DO NOT MARRY AN AW!!!

[Henry]

I really feel what you are saying.....but It just ain't that easy.

I've been there and done that and fighting the system is like going to the beach to stop the waves.  You can try in earnest but in the end the waves win.

In your case, relatively speaking, it might have been a stream and you were able to block the stream, kick some ass and celebrate the win.  Happy for ya!

But in most other cases its a fu*cking tidal wave and you have not only the ex to contend with but the judiciary, the cops and children services, everyone is against you.  Its very overwhelming, and fight as you may, they have already decided you will lose even if they have to change the rules and lie to get the win. You are hit from every side!

Sometimes its best to make a retreat, lick your wounds and leave your big guns and hard fought bounty on the battle field.  They make it impossible to "win" and even if you do win you still lose- like your kids will get screwed up, if that makes any sense.

If I had only known what was in store for me in our judiciary once I ended my relationship with an AmW!  Hell on earth! 

Never again!

It really pains me to hear the stories here because they are so similar to my story.  I think that is why I try to contribute my wisdom on P-L so no other honest guy will have to suffer needlessly.   I have always treated my woman like a queen, she gets nothing less than my best and I expect the same in return, I'm not perfect, but I'm a good guy with a big heart.

Plus, I know men that treat their women like crap.  As far as I'm concerned those guys get what they deserve.  But good guys should not have to suffer at the hands of an overzealous man-hating court system.

I really don't see things changing anytime in our courts or the unfair man-hating pendulum swinging back to equilibrium anytime soon.  Can I change the system? Hell no, I'm pragmatic.  I'm not the type that gets involved in political action movements and expect the laws to suddenly change overnight, this unfairness is here to stay.

I will say that not all AmW are bad.  But even the good ones participate and benefit from the jacked up system, so you really can't win.  I mean, if you divorce your wife, and she is a decent human, when the lawyers, the judge and her bitch friends finish with her she will be no different from all the other man haters out there!  You get the exact same meat grinder as the guy who is the wife beater.

You WILL still get screwed in the end.  You WILL lose!

Well, we do have some recourse- a light at the end of the tunnel! 

We don't have to marry AmW! 

American men have the option of finding a foreign wife.  Of course nothing is just that perfect, there are all types of perils and pitfalls associated with a foreign bride.  However, with much care and planning, those negative aspects can be minimized and mitigated to a point where the good outweighs the negative considerably. 

I will go even further to suggest that, barring your foreign bride steals your children, there is noting quite a devastating as an American court of law, the man-rape never seems to end. 

I'll take my risks with the potential scammers, green card queens and "million" dollar baby mamas!

Fight system and win here in America?

I'll pass.

Zulu

USA has the worst divorce outcome in the entire world. That is even compared to Canada. UK might come close.

I have a friend who married a girl in Holland. He was quite surprised when he got divorced that they didnt try to take everything he had and give it to her.

It is just marriage in the Anglo world. Elsewhere it isnt as perilous.

[Bob_S]

Foreign wives can do just as much damage as domestic ones, arguably more because they have the added pity factor of a foreign woman brought to a strange land.

Plus you don't just have the U.S. courts against you, you have an entire foreign government against you.  She can find a way to sneak your kids out of the country (if you think a court order forbidding them from travel will stop her, think again, when she can get her embassy to issue her passports to your kids and away they go).  Then try enforcing a U.S. court issued custody order in a foreign country where they'll tell you to go eff yourself.  You may not have to pay alimony or child support, but you'll never see your kids again.  EVER.

[Bricks]

I have a question Henry; How about not marrying an AW, or marrying in the US either?

 Lets take Woody for example, since he plans to retire in South America anyway, how might it be beneficial for him to just marry there?