Arizona Immigration Enforcement Law

[fathertime]

Ok let's see the study....if 2/3 of illegals are here less than 10 years that means about 10 million crossed the border during the last ten years and I just don't believe it is that high.

You don’t believe 10million could have arrived in a 10 year timespan?  In your earlier post on the previous page you mentioned 2,000 a day were coming, it would take only 3,000 a day to be over 1 million a year which if you do the math would equal the 10 million number over 10 years.  As for me, I don’t believe ANY number our govt gives us regarding the number of illegal aliens in this country it could be 4,000 a day or more, who really knows.  Whenever I see video clips it is large groups crossing so 3 or 4 thousand a day seems reasonable, maybe even modest.   It is evident that leadership’s agenda is to downplay the whole issue and number of crossers, so why the Christ should they believed? As long as nothing is done (like now) the problem continues to worsen.

Fathertime!

[anm8tr]

Huh? Where did you hear that, MSNBC?

Don't believe everything anything you hear from the leftist wackoes...

Good Lord, another Rush Limbaugh dumb ass!, What a moron this guy is! What the "F" do you care what the hell happens in Arizona anyway. What the hell do you know about racial profiling here? You are stupid beyond belief! I am a third generation Arizonan and we see the profiling being done everyday here, so unless you have proof otherwise or live here yourself, then shut your ignorant pie hole!

[anm8tr]

The law requires two things: 1) being stopped for some appropriate police activity (robbery, drugs, speeding, jaywalking, broken taillight, whatever....) and reasonable suspicion that they're here illegally (speaking only Swedish and not having a passport or visa, having only a Matricular Consular card as ID, etc.) Then the only thing the Arizona cops can do (other then whatever the punishment for what they were stopped for in the first place,) is turn them over to ICE.

The law specifically prohibits busting into the local taqueria, lining everyone up and arresting them for BBP (being brown in public) in other words, racial profiling.

No stats in yet. I didn't think it was in effect yet, but am not sure.

Absolutely amazing, are you people here that out of touch with reality? Does anyone here have an education beyond high school? Does anyone read their history books or study history at all? What the hell is wrong with everyone? So people came here illegally from Mexico  and other SA countries to work and try to survive, yes they broke immigration laws, yes, some of them are criminal, yes, some of them are repeat offenders, yes, some of them smuggle people and drugs. The fact they crossed the border illegally made them law breakers at the start, but businesses and large corporations across the entire nation exploited them by putting them to work, and they did the work no one else wanted, now everyone is crying foul and get those illegal brown SOB's out of the country. This is the same behavior that this country going downhill over the entire world. This country is well know for using up every natural resource and otherwise and then walking away when we are done.

How many of you people here lost jobs picking grapes or cleaning hotel rooms or all the other [snip] work we take for granted?

All I see here is a bunch of uneducated bigots with too much hatred.

You people are sick!

[jm21-2]

The problem with employer fines is that there are many employers who have a need for labor that isn't met by legal American workers, especially in agriculture. We had a guest worker program that worked fine for many years but was done away with.

It will be interesting to see how many responses takeourjobs.org gets for their program to set up unemployed USCs or legal immigrants with farm jobs. I guess Stephen Colbert is #4.

Actually, it's kind of related to a conversation I had with my GF yesterday. She's worried about the high unemployment here. I tried to explain to her that it's not that there are no jobs, it's that people here want a good job, not just a job. they are on unemployment and/or other forms of welfare, they can game the banks to stay in the foreclosure process on their house for many years, they've got easy access to credit cards and other loans which they can toss out in a bankruptcy....really, what motivation do they have to take a really low paying and difficult job? Not to mention how SSD and SSI benefits have been expanded. So given that, wedo have a need for cheap foreign labor, at least until we can reform our welfare state. Otherwise we'll be paying an arseload for food.

[Kiltboy1]

Absolutely amazing, are you people here that out of touch with reality? Does anyone here have an education beyond high school? Does anyone read their history books or study history at all? What the hell is wrong with everyone? So people came here illegally from Mexico  and other SA countries to work and try to survive, yes they broke immigration laws, yes, some of them are criminal, yes, some of them are repeat offenders, yes, some of them smuggle people and drugs. The fact they crossed the border illegally made them law breakers at the start, but businesses and large corporations across the entire nation exploited them by putting them to work, and they did the work no one else wanted, now everyone is crying foul and get those illegal brown SOB's out of the country. This is the same behavior that this country going downhill over the entire world. This country is well know for using up every natural resource and otherwise and then walking away when we are done.

How many of you people here lost jobs picking grapes or cleaning hotel rooms or all the other [snip] work we take for granted?

All I see here is a bunch of uneducated bigots with too much hatred.

You people are sick!

I think the only person here is sick is well, you you dumbass liberal who wants to take all my tax money so some ILLIGALS can have a place to wipe there ass when they get off the mule bus

[michaelb]

Well, Ray has a very valid point about the disease problem. For a long time my stock answer to the "Well my ancestors came here legally blah blah....." crowd has been "Yes, but in those days 'legally' meant they presented themselves at a port of entry and didn't have tuberculosis". As Ray correctly pointed out, today many of them who don't present themselves at a port of entry do have tuberculosis (or some other serious communicable disease). Now the main reason (IMHO) that most of them don't present themselves at a port of entry is that they know, diseased or not, they won't be admitted. So the underground railroad (or 'coyote' if prefer) system has developed and flourished for several years. So why are they tolerated once they are here? Simple....the 'poverty pimp' industry sees them a constituents, useful for building up their power base and many businesses, from ma and pa  restaurants up to and including major construction and food processing companies see them as cheap labor that won't talk back.

We (the US government) need a legitimate way for non-diseased, non-criminals to enter and work legally. Everybody? No, but more than are permitted now, and those who are permitted to not be easily exploited, as they often are now. OTOH, no benefits except actual emergency medical care (which I define as  life threatening, or crippling, such as accident caused trauma or heart attacks, ruptured appendix etc. not things that could normally be handled in a physician's office). How long can they stay? First time the commit anything more serious than rolling a stop sign, they're gone -- forever.

Anchor babies? Sorry, that's the way the Constitution reads, they are citizens. (law of unintended consequences, that amendment was originally enacted so that the former slaves would be citizens, not so that every Tom, Dick and Harry who's mother made it across the boarder would be a citizen, but that's the result)  Personally, I support an amendment superseding the current one which would state that the mother must be a citizen of the US or married to a citizen, otherwise the baby would inherit the mother's citizenship.   

Economic refugees? Well, yes, most of them are. Doesn't mean, however, that they are all saints, some of them are criminals (besides just their border crossing infraction), some of them are the worst kind of criminals. Hopefully, a well regulated system of 'letting in the good ones' would drive the coyote system out of business, leaving much less of a chance for the 'bad' ones to get in (can't get in legally and with no organized, albeit illegal, support system, can't get in illegally either).

Dave, what kind of illegals do they have in Florida? Due to the 'wet foot, dry foot' policy, aren't Cubans who make it ashore automatically legal? Haitians, I guess? But I'm sure it's a much longer and more dangerous trip for them.

[Calipro]

You don’t believe 10million could have arrived in a 10 year timespan?  In your earlier post on the previous page you mentioned 2,000 a day were coming, it would take only 3,000 a day to be over 1 million a year which if you do the math would equal the 10 million number over 10 years.  As for me, I don’t believe ANY number our govt gives us regarding the number of illegal aliens in this country it could be 4,000 a day or more, who really knows.  Whenever I see video clips it is large groups crossing so 3 or 4 thousand a day seems reasonable, maybe even modest.   It is evident that leadership’s agenda is to downplay the whole issue and number of crossers, so why the Christ should they believed? As long as nothing is done (like now) the problem continues to worsen.

Fathertime!

Hahaha

Listen the 2000 a day figure was made by John Kerry the "flip flopper" in a presidential debate.....probably 2000 a day is the absolute most that might cross in one day.

But I can tell you that I don't believe that there is anywhere near 10 million that came here in the last ten years.  Bush would have had to have had the national guard trucking them across the desert for that to happen.....not that he wouldn't have like to....hahaha....but it just is not the case.

[Jeff S]

Absolutely amazing, are you people here that out of touch with reality? Does anyone here have an education beyond high school? Does anyone read their history books or study history at all? What the hell is wrong with everyone? So people came here illegally from Mexico  and other SA countries to work and try to survive, yes they broke immigration laws, yes, some of them are criminal, yes, some of them are repeat offenders, yes, some of them smuggle people and drugs. The fact they crossed the border illegally made them law breakers at the start, but businesses and large corporations across the entire nation exploited them by putting them to work, and they did the work no one else wanted, now everyone is crying foul and get those illegal brown SOB's out of the country. This is the same behavior that this country going downhill over the entire world. This country is well know for using up every natural resource and otherwise and then walking away when we are done.

How many of you people here lost jobs picking grapes or cleaning hotel rooms or all the other [snip] work we take for granted?

All I see here is a bunch of uneducated bigots with too much hatred.

You people are sick!

Let's say I break into your house.

Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.

But I say, 'No! I like it here. It's better than my house. I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).

So it's OK with you that:

You are required to let me stay in your house.

You are required to feed me.

You are required to add me to your family's insurance plan.

You are required to educate my kids.

You are required to provide other benefits to me & to my family.

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, and I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so that you can communicate with me.

Who is it again you're calling sick, uneducated, out of touch with reality, and bigoted?

[JimD]

Let's say I break into your house.

Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.

But I say, 'No! I like it here. It's better than my house. I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).

So it's OK with you that:

You are required to let me stay in your house.

You are required to feed me.

You are required to add me to your family's insurance plan.

You are required to educate my kids.

You are required to provide other benefits to me & to my family.

If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.

It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house And what a deal it is for me!!!

I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.

Oh yeah, and I DEMAND that you learn MY LANGUAGE!!! so that you can communicate with me.

Who is it again you're calling sick, uneducated, out of touch with reality, and bigoted?

I think he was referring to Ray.

[Ray]

I think he was referring to Ray.

No, actually she (sounds like a pissed off feminist liberal to me) directly quoted Jeff S in that particular tirade.

Not that it really matters anyway because she used stupid comments like "you people", meaning all you white guys.

That's an old tactic of the leftists. When they have no logical, factual arguments to back up their viewpoints, they try to make it about race. Anyone who opposes ILLEGAL immigration is a bigot who hates Mexicans. LOL!

Well, that idiotic nonsense might fly on MSNBC, or in her Women’s Studies classes, but people on this forum aren’t stupid enough to buy into her dishonest, liberal lies. That’s all she has to make her point, nothing more.

Ray

[Dave H]

they did the work no one else wanted, now everyone is crying foul and get those illegal brown SOB's out of the country.

You people are sick!

Oh BULL SH-IT!!!  It has nothing to do with anything but being an illegal alien! I want them to  KICK the WHITE ones out too! I have never turned down a job in my life, that was legal. (Having a fast boat in S FL can get you illicit job offers) I have cleaned hotel rooms, offices, stores, and houses and picked crops (no grapes where I lived) ! I have BA, and AS degrees, have never been in trouble with the law, a State Medal of Honor (Fire Fighter) recipient as well as numerous other awards, always an exemplary employee wherever I've  worked...yet I couldn't get a job in South Florida, even at McDonald's or Subway! I even speak Spanish! I could no longer afford to live in the US, thus I left! It is a good thing that my 2 older sons are half Spanish...getting jobs is never a problem for them. However, my sons are 100% American in their minds and hearts...but, I taught them how to check the right box to get ahead!!!

Dave

[Dave H]

[Dave H]

LAIR: Latino Americans for Immigration Reform
http://latinoamericans.org/

 

Lupe Moreno

[Dave H]

http://www.dakotavoice.com/2010/07/feds-working-on-backdoor-amnesty-program

Feds Working on Backdoor Amnesty Program
By Bob Ellis on July 30th, 2010


Illegal Immigrant rights protest in the US/Mexico border in Tijuana (Photo credit: Cesar Bojorquez)
We’ve long known the liberals in our government are dedicated to ignoring our laws and allowing the illegal alien problem to continue unabated.  Nothing has highlighted the federal government’s commitment to refusing to do its job like the lawsuit against Arizona for trying to maintain law and order in their own state.

For several years now we have seen liberals in both the Democrat and Republican Parties wrangle to extend amnesty to millions of illegal aliens–forever blocking our ability to remove these invaders who disregarded our laws, and inviting millions more to pour across the border in hopes of getting such a sweet deal.

Now Newsmax and other outlets are reporting on a draft memo written to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Director Alejandro Mayorkas by several agency staffers which looks at ways the Obama Administration might do an end-run around congressional authority and implement their own version of amnesty for illegals.

National Review has a copy of the memo which says that even in the absence of “Comprehensive Immigration Reform” (a code phrase for amnesty) they can “reinterpret” past legal opinions to allow illegal aliens to remain in the U.S.  One such “reinterpretation” involves granting “Parole In Place” or PIP to illegals.

The 11-page draft memo goes on in great detail about ways our government could creatively justify ignoring its duty to protect our borders and enforce law.

Senator Charles Grassley (R-IA) sees it for end-run plan it is. From Newsmax:

Mr. Grassley said it confirms his fears that the administration is trying an end-run around Congress.

“This memo gives credence to our concerns that the administration will go to great lengths to circumvent Congress and unilaterally execute a backdoor amnesty plan,” Mr. Grassley said.

The memo acknowledges some of the tools could be costly and might even require asking Congress for more money.

At one point, the authors acknowledge that widespread use of “deferred action” – or using prosecutorial discretion not to deport someone – would be “a non-legislative version of ‘amnesty.’ “

The authors noted several options for deferred action, including targeting it to students who would be covered by the DREAM Act, a bill that’s been introduced in Congress.

So our lawless government not only insists on ignoring its duty to enforce law in our country, it will likely demand that the taxpayers cough up even more money to aid in its dereliction of duty.

My fellow Americans, let us resolve to do all we can (volunteering for campaigns, making campaign contributions, helping spread the word about good candidates, etc.) to remove as many of these liberals from our government in November…and do it again in 2012…and again in 2014 until all those who represent us in the federal government are only those committed to the U.S. Constitution and the protection of our nation.

[Dave H]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/40395.html

Graham eyes 'birthright citizenship'

By ANDY BARR | 7/29/10 8:19 AM EDT
Updated: 7/29/10 5:14 PM EDT


Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) says it may be time to restrict the ability of immigrants to have children who become citizens just because they are born in the country.

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) announced Wednesday night that he is considering introducing a constitutional amendment that would change existing law to no longer grant citizenship to the children of immigrants born in the United States.

Currently, the 14th Amendment grants citizenship to any child born in the United States.

But with 12 million illegal immigrants living in the U.S., Graham said it may be time to restrict the ability of immigrants to have children who become citizens just because they are born in the country.

“I may introduce a constitutional amendment that changes the rules if you have a child here,” Graham said during an interview with Fox News’ Greta Van Susteren. “Birthright citizenship I think is a mistake ...  We should change our Constitution and say if you come here illegally and you have a child, that child's automatically not a citizen.”

Asked how intent Graham is on introducing the amendment, the South Carolina Republican responded: “I got to.”

“People come here to have babies,” he said. “They come here to drop a child. It's called "drop and leave." To have a child in America, they cross the border, they go to the emergency room, have a child, and that child's automatically an American citizen. That shouldn't be the case. That attracts people here for all the wrong reasons.”

Graham insisted that he wants to be “fair” and “humane” in dealing with the children of immigrants but doesn’t want to see an already significant immigration issue become larger.

“I'm a practical guy, but when you go forward, I don't want 20 million more 20 years from now,” he said. “I want to be fair. I want to be humane. We need immigration policy, but it should be on our terms, not someone else's. I don't know how to fix it all. But I do know what makes people mad, that 12 million people came here, and there seems to be no system to deal with stopping 20 million 20 years from now.”

[Dave H]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/support_for_mexican_border_fence_up_to_68

Support for Mexican Border Fence Up to 68%


Support for the building of a fence along the Mexican border has reached a new high, and voters are more confident than ever that illegal immigration can be stopped.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 68% of U.S. voters now believe the United States should continue to build a fence on the Mexican border. That’s up nine points from March when the Obama administration halted funding for the fence and the highest level of support ever.

Just 21% oppose the continued building of the border fence.
Support for the fence is strong across all demographic groups. But while 76% of Mainstream voters think the United States should continue to build the fence, 67% of the Political Class are opposed to it.

Forty-seven percent (47%) of all voters believe it is possible to end illegal immigration. That’s up slightly from April of last year.

Now only 36% do not think it is possible for the United States to prevent illegal immigrants from getting into the country. That’s down sixteen points since October 2008.
 
The survey of 1,000 Likely U.S. Voters was conducted on July 24-25, 2010 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

Illegal immigration, always a concern to many voters, has taken on increased visibility due to the controversy over Arizona’s new immigration law. The state law went into effect today, but a federal judge has put several of its more controversial provisions on hold until a Justice Department legal challenge of the law is resolved.
Fifty-six percent (56%) of voters nationwide oppose the Justice Department’s decision to challenge the Arizona law, and 61% favor passage of a law like Arizona’s in their own state.
Fifty-four percent (54%) say the Justice Department instead should take legal action against cities that provide sanctuary for illegal immigrants. Even more think the federal government should cut off funds to these “sanctuary cities.”

Most voters ages 40 and older say it is possible for the United States to end illegal immigration. Republicans by better than two-to-one are more confident than Democrats that it’s possible. Voters not affiliated with either party are more closely divided on the question.

Most members of the Political Class, however, say it can’t be done. Fifty-six percent (56%) of Mainstream voters say it is possible to stop illegal immigration, but 58% of the Political Class disagree.

Sixty-eight percent (68%) of voters say the Political Class doesn’t care what most Americans think anyway.

The number of voters who view the issue of immigration as Very Important has jumped 16 points from last month to its highest level ever, although it still ranks fifth on a list of 10 issues regularly tracked by Rasmussen Reports.

In December 2008, just after President-elect Obama put Janet Napolitano, an opponent of the border fence, in charge of immigration activities, 74% of voters said the federal government was not doing enough to stop illegal immigration.

Sixty-four percent (64%) of voters believe the federal government by failing to enforce immigration law is more to blame for the current controversy over Arizona’s new statute than state officials are for passing it.

In fact, by a two-to-one margin, voters believe the policies of the federal government encourage people to enter the United States illegally.

Voters also have said consistently for years that when it comes to immigration reform, gaining control of the border is more important than legalizing the status of undocumented workers already living in the United States.

Still, 58% favor a welcoming immigration policy that excludes only national security threats, criminals and those who come here to live off the U.S. welfare system.

[Dave H]

Dave, what kind of illegals do they have in Florida? Due to the 'wet foot, dry foot' policy, aren't Cubans who make it ashore automatically legal? Haitians, I guess? But I'm sure it's a much longer and more dangerous trip for them.

Hey michaelb,

Yes, the 'wet foot, dry foot' policy, usually means that most Cubans who make it ashore, are not illegal. But we also have large populations of illegal Haitians, Dominicans, Jamaicans, Colombians, Nicaraguans. and Mexicans. Illegals from most countries in Central and South America are "well represented" in South Florida, but also Canada. There are even quite a few illegal Russians.

Dave

[Dave H]

Absolutely amazing, are you people here that out of touch with reality? Does anyone here have an education beyond high school? Does anyone read their history books or study history at all?

now everyone is crying foul and get those illegal brown SOB's out of the country.

Well anm8tr,

If you, MEChA, and La Raza actually opened your history books, you would know that the "illegal brown SOB's" that you refer to are an ethnic group and actually not considered a race at all (so much for racial profiling). The term "bronze race" (raza de bronce) was coined in the 20th century to refer to these mestizos. The classification "brown race" was created by Johann Blumenbach to refer to the the Malayan race of Asia.

Dave

[Researcher]

Ok let's see the study....if 2/3 of illegals are here less than 10 years that means about 10 million crossed the border during the last ten years and I just don't believe it is that high.

I'd like to see who is polling these illegals anyway. hahaha!!!

I don't know why 20 more states are considering similar legislation seeing how they couldn't possibly have a higher percentage of illegals than we do here. Could be that the illegals that are supposed to deport themselves will likely just move to another state if they ever really get uncomfortable here.

No matter what happens I just can't see these people willingly moving back to severe poverty in Mexico.

    Where did you the number 15 million are here?Let's see that study.

    20 more states are considering the same law because illegal aliens are a drag on their budgets.They use more in benefits than they contributr in taxes, if they even pay any.



  Researcher

[Researcher]

All I see here is a bunch of uneducated bigots with too much hatred.

You people are sick!

     Maybe you need glasses.So, anyone who doesn't agree with you is a bigot.I like Mexicans and really don't have a problem with them being here legally.The borders need to be sealed and the illegal problem needs to be addressed.If there is a need for a guest worker program then so be it, it should be done legally.No, I don't live in Arizona but I do have a right to my opinion.When Arizona sues the Federal Gov. to pay back the money illegals have cost because the US won't enforce its laws, I will have to bear part of that burden with the taxes that I pay.IMO, that gives me the right to have a voice in the matter.


  Researcher

[Researcher]

You have to realize that these illegals crossing the border are really economic refugees. They are coming here to work and feed their families and nothing less than a bullet in the back of the head is going to stop them from coming here if they can get work and send money back home.

   Send money back to Mexico? You mean they don't use it create jobs here in the US(or at least in China) like everyone claims?

    Researcher

[Researcher]

The problem with employer fines is that there are many employers who have a need for labor that isn't met by legal American workers, especially in agriculture. We had a guest worker program that worked fine for many years but was done away with.

It will be interesting to see how many responses takeourjobs.org gets for their program to set up unemployed USCs or legal immigrants with farm jobs. I guess Stephen Colbert is #4.

Actually, it's kind of related to a conversation I had with my GF yesterday. She's worried about the high unemployment here. I tried to explain to her that it's not that there are no jobs, it's that people here want a good job, not just a job. they are on unemployment and/or other forms of welfare, they can game the banks to stay in the foreclosure process on their house for many years, they've got easy access to credit cards and other loans which they can toss out in a bankruptcy....really, what motivation do they have to take a really low paying and difficult job? Not to mention how SSD and SSI benefits have been expanded. So given that, wedo have a need for cheap foreign labor, at least until we can reform our welfare state. Otherwise we'll be paying an arseload for food.

             Isn't that the same argument used to defend slavery? Some would say slavery worked fine but was done away with also.Lets bring more foreigners here to be exploited.
I don't want to pay too much for food.

             Researcher
             

[Jeff S]

No, actually she (sounds like a pissed off feminist liberal to me) directly quoted Jeff S in that particular tirade.

Not that it really matters anyway because she used stupid comments like "you people", meaning all you white guys.

That's an old tactic of the leftists. When they have no logical, factual arguments to back up their viewpoints, they try to make it about race. Anyone who opposes ILLEGAL immigration is a bigot who hates Mexicans. LOL!

Well, that idiotic nonsense might fly on MSNBC, or in her Women’s Studies classes, but people on this forum aren’t stupid enough to buy into her dishonest, liberal lies. That’s all she has to make her point, nothing more.

Ray

And I was quoting what the law actually said as opposed to guessing how it might be mis-applied. I know enough history and am educated enough to know that when the police misapply a law, the lawsuits fly and communities get in a whole mess of trouble paying off huge sums to the aggrieved.

[Dan Las Vegas]

Absolutely amazing, are you people here that out of touch with reality? Does anyone here have an education beyond high school? Does anyone read their history books or study history at all? What the hell is wrong with everyone? So people came here illegally from Mexico  and other SA countries to work and try to survive, yes they broke immigration laws, yes, some of them are criminal, yes, some of them are repeat offenders, yes, some of them smuggle people and drugs. The fact they crossed the border illegally made them law breakers at the start, but businesses and large corporations across the entire nation exploited them by putting them to work, and they did the work no one else wanted, now everyone is crying foul and get those illegal brown SOB's out of the country. This is the same behavior that this country going downhill over the entire world. This country is well know for using up every natural resource and otherwise and then walking away when we are done.

How many of you people here lost jobs picking grapes or cleaning hotel rooms or all the other [snip] work we take for granted?

All I see here is a bunch of uneducated bigots with too much hatred.

You people are sick!

Well, yes, actually I do have an education beyond high school, but I'm sure my lowly  master's degree is not up to your standards. No doubt your education is far superior to mine. Perhaps due to my lack of education, I don't feel the need to call people names or insult members of this board who dare to have a different opinion.

Dan LV

[Jeff S]

Yeah, I'd say more of us have Masters or Bachelors degrees than not. That's the first thing that liberals do, though is scream MORON and RACIST. Remember how the press extolled John Kerry's intellectual excellence while denouncing Bush as a moron. In the one standardized test they both took that's available from the FOIA, Bush scored quite a bit higher than Kerry in the military officer's candidate entrance exam. It's an ineffective and increasingly transparent ploy to try to divert attention from their completely hollow policies.