So I met a girl.. And I am going to Thailand to meet her.

[evoltnvii]

I only have my one experience to comment on because i have never been married or dated internationally before oct 08'.

I met my girl on line and we talked with each other sent letters etc for 7 months before i visited and knew i really wanted to meet her in person to make sure the chemistry was real. I lived with her for almost a month in and out of her home and interacted with most of her family. Before i left i proposed because everything i felt before going there was only reinforced upon meeting her.

She just got her K-1 Visa 1 year to the day after i left because we waited 8 months before filing because we felt it best to make sure we continue to have strong feelings even after an extended separation because we want a relationship for the long haul not just untill we get tired of each other.

sorry if i went of on a random tale but just want to give one example of a relationship based on only one visit.

[robert angel]

Re:

>>Pre-nups may not be worth the paper they're written on.  In the event of divorce, it is ultimately left up to the discretion of a judge.  And if she plays the "I'm a poor little ignorant immigrant girl and that bad man MADE me sign it and I didn't know what it was...", the judge could just throw it out, even if you paid extra to have it translated.<<


VERY true, I may crack wise about lawyers, but there are some of the highest integrity and honor, including my own dad. Anyways,  before my wife came to the USA and we married, I consulted with TWO lawyers in my state about having a pre nup written up to protect home equity and a few other investments for my children 'just in case'.

They both went on at LENGTH about how worthless a prenup was and how even in some cases as described, it can make your situation WORSE in front of unsympathetic judges who see this pretty lil lady and this wise to the world yankee and nail his ass to the wall with alimony and giving her half of everything anyways. Judges have a LOT of discretionary powers in most states.

 Still--I was not easily persuades and finally they each said "OK--if you REALLY, REALLY want one, I'll write one up, but I'll have to charge you a fee."

I went home and thought about it, discussed it with my Father and we realized they were right. I had three great lawyers extend their services for free!

[Ray]

Yes.  I know that I am legally responsible for her for 90 days.  But I DO NOT HAVE TO MARRY HER IF THINGS GO BAD FOR ANY REASON.  You think I don't know what a k1 visa is?
You are forgetting I have been through this before with my last Thai fiancée.
I know what sinsod is.  And I know what I am willing to pay, and not more than that.  I am going to explain my conditions, that she is uneducated, not terribly wealthy, that frankly I am not much more educated than she is, etc, and I am setting my amount (VERY SMALL).  Which, by the way, is only for CEREMONIAL PURPOSES.  And that's even if they bring it up.

If I am anything, I am not the kind of guy you can push around.  Anyway, this isn't really helping me.  Not bothering with this forum anymore.

Well, if you think that a K-1 visa is for the purpose living together here in the States so that you can decide if you really want to marry or not, then yes, you do not know what a k-1 visa is.

A K-1 visa is for two people already committed to marriage to marry in the States. Yes, you are allowed to cancel the wedding if something comes up to change either person’s mind, BUT, you must be fully committed to marriage before filing the K-1 petition. It IS NOT for a trial period!

Important Question: Did she ask you for money to apply for a passport, or did you just volunteer that out of the blue?

Note: If you post here and ask for tips or advice, then please don’t freak out if every reply you get isn’t exactly what you wanted to hear.

Ray

[z_k_g]

I think our friend Jorge is no longer with the thread!

Kinda wonder why he would ask for advice, get great input, and then get pissed when he hears from the experts?

This guy really needs some guidance.  I really don't get it!!

[Celtic_Jorge]

Robert:  Celtic is actually a SCOTTISH club.  I was just wondering if maybe bcc was being so cheeky and rude with me because he was a Rangers fan.  I was more or less joking.  But I have a lot of Irish ancestry and I have been there (to Ireland) several times myself.  The most beautiful women there, though, in my experience, were in Donegal.  Women there, however, like most of the "British" Isles, and in Western Europe, are just getting more Americanised by the minute.. I have the same dating problems there as I do anywhere else.  It's kind of a depressing topic for me.

As for my last fiance, we were keeping in touch by email for a few months until she was getting later and later with her replies to my emails, and then finally she stopped replying at all.  She hated Thaksin, so I doubt she was involved in any Redshirt protests or anything and got hurt is why..  Actually, she stopped talking to me long before the current troubles anyway..     We were REALLY close, in fact every day, to this day, I still ask myself WHY DID SHE LEAVE ME?  It just doesn't make any sense.  Sure, her grandmother was dying, but I told her I would help her get a visa to come back here after she was done visiting her family..  Another depressing topic.

Back to the topic of my girlfriend...  I know that the k1 visa is not supposed to be for "trial purposes".  But I don't think that I am really "abusing" the visa, either, for having a long engagement, or even an engagement as long as possible the rules will permit (the full 90 days).  Believe it or not, I read the state.gov's k1 and a few independent sources' information about the k1 visa for days and hours on end, trying to figure out what would be best to settle my last fiance's immigration problems.  Get married here and now and apply for the k-3 visa, or go with the k-1 when she goes back to Thailand, etc.  It was a big headache but I am actually really well read on the subject.  My eyes were about to bleed I read so much.  This time I am getting an immigration attorney.  Not doing it myself.  Definitely not.

Also, I had seen a lot of family photos, you know, of my girlfriend with her family.  They look like really nice people.  But something happened the other night that really lit my eyes up (and lifted my heart).  Again, I am sure that some of you might say that it could be all part of an elaborate scam with actors and the like.  However, when my girlfriend got on her cam (she is always in a net cafe) to talk to me, she brought her mother with her.  So I got to talk to her mother about my plans to visit Thailand and possibly get engaged to her daughter.  She seemed like a very nice, very well-meaning woman.  No mention of sinsod or anything, either.  Which, by the way, I said I would only pay a very small, ceremonial-purposes only amount, and I am sticking by that.  She just talked to me about the Thai engagement customs in general and it was nice.  She said she liked me a lot.

There has been some really good advice in here.  I am trying to be as cautious with this whole thing as I possibly can.  But my situation is really [snip]e, as jm pointed out.  I am taking a risk here, but I am trying to take the risk as safely as I can.  Remember, too, friends, that due to immigration restrictions, the marriage can't happen with the k1 visa for at least almost a year anyway.  And I will extend the engagement for as long as I can.  So as "rushed" as this looks, with only one real "in person visit", and so on, we will have dated, even if mostly through internet video chat sessions, for a year or more before we finally wed.  It's not as rushed as it looks.

[robert angel]

Hey Jorge--glad you're back!

Yea--Donnegal has some lookers indeed. My Mom's ('Me Mum's'--lol) family is all from the county next to it (south) Leitrum, and when we went to the po dunk  tiny villages where her family was from, it was weird--the women all looked a LOT like my Mom!. In fact, we weren't there but an hour when some anciently old woman approached my Mom and looked her up and down, got face to face with her and said "Eyyeee--but ururr nooo strangerr"--because she looked like most of the women--like the late great Vanessa Redgrave.  Hate to admit, but I had family last time I went, who were living in homes with thatched grass roofs and they burned peat for heat and cooking! Very literate, humble yet quietly proud, well adjusted folk--even if they do drinks a bit--getting 'jarred' on the stout n ales. Polished up my darts game just dandy though. Anyways--my family  there took me in like a brother and we had a grand old time. A town quite a bit south that caught my fancy was Kinsale.

A buddy of mine is leaving in a couple weeks for a couple months in Thailand--he goes every year--but not looking for 'wife material' hehehe. He knows the ropes--the ins and outs, and is up front about his intentions. Airfare's wayyy high now, but the 'troubles' have calmed down and no more 8PM curfew.

Again--glad your back man--we bark but don't bite and ya can PM me anytime..

[z_k_g]

Jorge, Welcome back!

This is a voluntary enema!! So enjoy!!

Zulu

[jm21-2]

Remember, too, friends, that due to immigration restrictions, the marriage can't happen with the k1 visa for at least almost a year anyway.  And I will extend the engagement for as long as I can.  So as "rushed" as this looks, with only one real "in person visit", and so on, we will have dated, even if mostly through internet video chat sessions, for a year or more before we finally wed.  It's not as rushed as it looks.

When my GF said she wanted to wait a long time before marriage, I pitched a similar argument. She didn't really buy it then but I think she might be coming around. From the time the fiance visa process starts to the time you actually have to get married is longer than many people date before marrying. I figure if I started the paperwork now it would be at least a year between when we first met in person and when we got married, probably a significant amount longer.

I have come to trust internet dating less and less as a way to get to know someone though. If I didn't have the ability to make at least two visits a year I'd probably wait until I did. But then my field has quite a few options for good vacation time. As it is, I'm taking about 6 weeks a year off which is only possible because I'm self employed.

[Celtic_Jorge]

Most people in my field of work get 4 weeks off after 20 years of service.  I'll get 1 week after 12 months, 2 weeks after 5 years, 3 weeks after 10 years.  And the 4 weeks after 20.  And I still have to get out of bed to go to work at 3 in the morning, get called back in in the middle of my two days off per week, have to work 14 hour days, etc.  Its just part of the trade off.  It's either this or go back to smaller pay.  And in my old work, I had the same amount of holiday time.... So..  Life is just rough sometimes.

[michaelb]

 No mention of sinsod or anything, either.  Which, by the way, I said I would only pay a very small, ceremonial-purposes only amount, and I am sticking by that.  .

Does 'sinsod' mean anything like this notable movie dialog?

Mary Kate: Don't touch me! You have no right!
Sean: Whaddya mean, no right?
Mary Kate: I'll wear your ring, I'll cook, and I'll wash, and I'll keep the land. But that is all. Until I've got my dowry safe about me, I'm no married woman.

[william3rd]

more on bar girls.

 If your new gf has bargirl friends, then she is a bargirl herself or retired from her trade. No thai woman of decent upbringing will associate in any way with a bargirl. They dont invite them over, eat, drink talk or have any interaction with them. It would be similar to one of you picking up an unconscious drunk on skid row and declare him to be your new friend, taking him to dinner etc etc.

it does not happen. There are no other explanations

they were not bff, classmates in high school, in English school or anything like that. They danced a go go together, went on double "dates" and associate together because that is what the lowest of the low do. hotel maids and other menial jobs wont associate with them either.

A word to the wise.

[Celtic_Jorge]

I just thought I'd add something in here.

I hadn't used TLL in a long time.  Several weeks.  I logged in today to see what my "girlfriend" has been up to lately on here.  So, I discovered that she has been logging in quite regularly.
She isn't one of those people obsessed with updating her profile or collecting pictures of her self, either, so that doesn't explain why she's so active on here.

Only thing I can really make out of it is, she's on there talking to several men.  My last experience with a Thai girl did not emerge from an international dating website, but a largely DOMESTIC dating website, as the relationship was first formed domestically.  So, yes, now I understand, a lot of these women on TLL have SEVERAL farang boyfriends, and I am starting to think that maybe the one I am talking to is one of those women..  So if anyone here has a TLL account that would like to snoop for me, go ahead.

I don't know.  I just don't know anymore.  Maybe my life is just too [snip]e for international dating as it is, and I need to learn to give up on women again.

[Celtic_Jorge]

Also, for whoever asked, to her credit, I WAS THE ONE who put the idea in her head that she needed a passport ASAP.
She didn't go "oh honey send me the money soon so I can get the passport so it won't delay the visa."
It was no major loss, as I said, and I told her no money again until we meet in person.

[Ray]

I don't know.  I just don't know anymore.  Maybe my life is just too [snip]e for international dating as it is, and I need to learn to give up on women again.

At this point in your relationship, there are a LOT of things that you don't know about each other. That’s why everyone is advising you to slow down.

You are already planning to petition her for a fiancée visa when you should just be getting to know each other. Don’t you have a feeling that you may be rushing things with this young lady?

Note: The reason I asked if she was the one who asked you for money to get a passport is because you said that you considered it a red flag. Does she have her passport yet? Even if you do petition her, she won’t have a need for a passport for quite some time.

Ray

[robert angel]

A lot of sharp guys have gotten snookered by women and from what I've seen, the Thai and Eastern European women have got it down to an art form.

Seems the sexier they are, the more game they bring to the scene, although they can play the 'sexy' level down when seeming 'wholesome' might work better for them.

Jorge, if that's the case here, the great thing is that you've gotten wind of it early on and not after you've brought her here.

Once she's here, you are responsible for her whether you do get married in 90 days or she just disappears into the American underworld--anyway you look at it, if it doesn't work out--especially after she gets here if it goes that far--you're in for a royal reaming if it goes south. At best, just the airfare for a oneway back to 'the land of smiles'.

There really is no substitute for time. In a world of instant everything, finding a suitable mate in a really short time is a tall order.

I'm an optimist at heart, but a cynic in mind.......

[Bob_S]

I just don't know anymore.  Maybe my life is just too [snip]e for international dating as it is, and I need to learn to give up on women again.

That's not necessary.  You've had some bad luck, but days from now, you'll look back and realize you really dodged a bullet with this one.  But if you still want a simple sweet Asian gal, that can still be done.  I know some single girls if you are interested at all in Japanese girls.  And other guys here know Fillipinas and Chinese girls if you are so interested, all basically pre-screened if you will, people we know personally and can vouch for their honest intentions.  Are you devoted to Thailand or are you willing to cast a wider net?

[Celtic_Jorge]

Thank you.  Thats kind of you, but I mean, my situation at work just doesn't seem cut out for this.
Maybe if I could meet people from other countries already in the U.S. it would work.
I still talk to the burd in question.  She still sends me SMS on my phone all the time.
I don't think she is a scammer.  But she came across as a lot more devoted to me than
she actually was, which turns me off.  All of this about love, and yet she still hangs out
on dating sites every night?    If I did get engaged to her, she probably would have come
over here.  The thing that bothers me is, I don't think it was so much about me at all now.
I think she would get engaged to just about anyone who went over there before I can.
I guess the harsh reality is, too, that I am 25 and I have only had
two girlfriends, and both were pretty much miserably failed ventures into love...
So I am just gullible as hell.

[jm21-2]

From other posts here, I don't think it is uncommon at all for a poor girl to be ready to get engaged to the first guy who actually makes the trip. Seems to be the norm actually. Remember that probably 99% of the guys she talks to online will never make the trip. I would not expect any real commitment at least until you have purchased the plane tickets and shown her the itinerary.

[Celtic_Jorge]

I haven't totally given up on her yet.  I just wish there was some way to make her more devoted to me.
In fact, the question has popped into my head, maybe she was logging into TLL just to see what I WAS DOING ON THERE?
Seems unlikely, but probable.
She's very cute.  Even her mother is pretty, at 24 years older, or so.  A glimpse at what she will look like in a few years. ha ha.
I don't know.  I am just a bit taken back by the "I.L.U." stuff, when she's logging into dating websites regularly still.
Maybe I'll still go to Pattaya.  I don't know.  I was told there are a lot of Scots and Irish around Pattaya..  If things go south maybe I'll just put on my Celtic top, I'm bound to run into some mates to go carousing on the bars and beaches with, looking for ladies... 

Or I'll just run into some nasty rangers fans.  Ha ha.

In another year I'll have the money (and the time off) to go somewhere else...

[Woody]

I haven't totally given up on her yet.  I just wish there was some way to make her more devoted to me.
In fact, the question has popped into my head, maybe she was logging into TLL just to see what I WAS DOING ON THERE?
Seems unlikely, but probable.

Not probable, but possible. Probable means likely.

But anyways, I'm just glad to see that your head is no longer in the clouds and now you understand why everyone was saying slow the [snip] down.

It may be worth the trip anyways. Get out there, see the world. If you are serious about Thai chicks, then you should get to know their country and culture first hand.

[Ray]

I just wish there was some way to make her more devoted to me.

Oh man, you have a lot to learn about love... 

[Celtic_Jorge]

Well I just got on the cam with her mum and grand mum.... Two VERY nice people.  Seem to have limited English, though.
My heart is just really warming for this girl.  Her family wants me to come over there.  They seem to really like me a lot.
I think I am definitely going over there in September.  I might even get engaged to her.
I just think my opportunity for meeting a woman like this and making things work are just too limited to pass this opportunity up.
If I leave her without a ring and a gold necklace, by the time 12 months rolls around and I can go again, she probably won't be available anymore.
What can I really say?  She's melting my damn heart.
I know I could be setting myself up for real hellfire here on Earth if I get engaged to her that fast and marry her just like that and things go bad here in America...

But there's always a chance it could work out.      I know I have one foot in my grave.  I just really want to take a chance for her.  I think I'll decide for good when I am there in September.  I guess I'll let you all know what happens...

[robert angel]

Jorge,

Believe it not, I don't know what to say, except good luck, balance your heart with your brain and with nothing ventured, nothing's gained...



             Look, if you had one shot, or one opportunity
      >>>To seize everything you ever wanted-One moment<<<
                   Would you capture it or just let it slip....?

[z_k_g]

            Look, if you had one shot, or one opportunity
      >>>To seize everything you ever wanted-One moment<<<
                   Would you capture it or just let it slip....?

Robert,

A hiphop music fan are you!!  

Celtic, go for it man, just be cautiously optimistic!!

Zulu

[robert angel]

Hey Zulu,

Yea man, good music is good music, from Tchaikovsky to Tupac, from the Beatles to B.o.B--ha ha--we were just moving to B.o.B's (and (Bruno's) "Nothin on you"--that song got in my head--that somewhat 'new' Ludacris duet is catchy too, --my teenage son's like Sinatra more than they do Michael Buble, but they listen to Dre and co too--we got it all spinning round here..lol

Of course, the Black Eyed Peas are bigger in the RP than anywhere else on earth...