Barranquilla Baloney.....

[robert angel]

Caballero2009,

What you've said is a real eye full and reinforces my wariness of Colombian women. While I think the nature of the internet makes it all too possible to conduct 'relationships' as you describe, I can't help but think the culture allows the kind of behaviors you describe to be ongoing.

I am sure there are some real nice, 'quality' females down there for the finding--it just sounds like you really have a helluva time sorting them out to find the right one.

I can't help but wonder if you're not better of just going there (of course available time's an issue) and just mixing and meeting everyday people rather than strictly using the internet.


The women there are lovely, I just am not into drama, lies and infidelity. For the guys who think someone who's used to that way of life is going to change in a new environment, I'm afraid it's not likely to happen. We need to be careful about what we wish for.

[Caballero2009]

Yea im torn really. What choice do i have. I have known of good colombian girls...so its not ALL colombian girls..but its most i have heard of lately and tried myself.

I will still go down but man my spirits are dampened after all the stuff I have read and experienced overall.

it really sucks american women have become so unbearable men have to look elsewhere to find a good wife..yet even the ones down there are westernized... i guess if they are savvy enough to do MSN and COlombiacupid.com we shouldnt be naive and think "they wont be as frivlous" as american women.

[Ray]

They seem to screw anyone on the first date...awesome... thats what I want in a wife....to wonder if shes had 50+ or 100+ guys this last year .. maybe it can be a game... "Guess What # You Are" I am SCREW #104! yay!

Screw #104?

I believe the correct term for that is SLUT!

OOPS! Here comes the PC cop!

 

[Ray]

Ray, I know about the affadavit of support but I have never heard of that actually being enforced. Does anyone have any proof of that ever happening?

http://www.divorcesource.com/NJ/ARTICLES/sliwinski86.html

Also, I belive that one of the attorneys on the Asian Board has had experience with this.

Ray

[Ray]

I don’t understand why some of you guys keep making excuses for the lying and deceit. It’s a “cultural” thing?

From my perspective, habitual lying is a serious character flaw that I can never accept, regardless of the culture.

If you can accept a spouse who repeatedly lies and deceives you, then that’s your choice. But I believe that you are only fooling yourself if you think that the behavior will be cured with a change in scenery. Accept it and live with it.

I wish you luck...

Ray

[Researcher]

     Sometimes I wish my wife would lie.Like the time she had her medical exam for her visa and she called the doc a thief after she saw what they were charging us. . But on the other hand there is a Colombian couple we have became friends with and the wife lies alot.Mostly about places they have been and things they have done.This is a big source of embarrassment for the husband because the truth usually comes out when we are in a large group and she gets caught in a lie.She hasn't been busted in a while so she either has stopped with the lies or has became better at telling them.

     Researcher

[lite sweet dude]

There also seems to be a great sense of pride in one's region in Colombia. Regionalism if you will.
And one region seems to be better or superior when compared to another.
For example, my dental hygienist is from Medellin. When I told her I had visited Colombia specifically Barranquilla in the past, she just shook her head and told me I should have gone to Medellin if I wanted to experience the real Colombia.
And without me mentioning it, she stated that costenos and the area in general are looked down upon. Not unlike the way southerners in the U.S. are considered backwards and ignorant to the rest of America.
So it's not just an outsider's perspective, some Colombians away from the coast feel the same way.
LSD

[lite sweet dude]

Getting back to the language topic, here's my experience. I can write in Spanish. Correct verb use, accent marks, words spelt correctly etc. And I can read and understand some of it without much difficulty. 
My problem is speaking the language. Pronouncing the words correctly and comprehending what is said to me. I struggle with this.
But I have known some Latinos that can speak English and carry on a conversation. Yet when they write something in English, it is on the level of a kindergartener or worse.

[Woody]

And without me mentioning it, she stated that costenos and the area in general are looked down upon. Not unlike the way southerners in the U.S. are considered backwards and ignorant to the rest of America.
So it's not just an outsider's perspective, some Colombians away from the coast feel the same way.

My impression from most Colombians I talked to is that they didn't like Costeños because of their "butchering" of the Spanish language.

Also, yes. There is a HUGE amount of regional pride. Paisas pretty much look down on the people in every other region of Colombia.

Another thing that took me by surprise is how much where you live matters to them. When I told a friend that the girl I was seeing lived in Bello, she was shocked and very concerned about the girl's "quality of character."

[Dan Las Vegas]

Woody, very true observation, my former novia was not hired for some jobs in part due to which barrio she was from (Manrique which is a strata 1 or 2) There is a definite class consciousness there and I heard the same thing numerous times.

[Alabamaboy!]

Ray, no offense, but it is a cultural thing in Colombia about the lying. I know many guys here on the forum have great wives who are exceptions to the rule, but in general I have been told that is the case. I have seen it with my own two eyes, lots of people lying about stupid things. Most of the things completely harmless and without rhyme or reason.  Friends, relatives, adults, kids, everyone.

In the US we have cultural things that are not so great or appealing also. Like many of us are workaholics who cannot relax and enjoy life, most of us cannot dance that great, many other things. But the women generally accept those "flaws" to a certain extent and will work with us on improving them if we are willing to try. Especially if we were to spend significant time living there.

So I think the same thing will be true with some of the negative things we find in them as well.

But if it is obvious that things are not going to work out, then of course there is absolutely no merit in staying together hoping for a prayer, that somehow they will be better in 5 years than they were at the end of the first year.

[Alabamaboy!]

LSD, that "regionalism" is much more strong than you have even explained.

Most of the Costenas I have ever spoken to stereotype Paisas as being: stuck up, materialistic, money grubbing, high class prostitutes who would rather let their children starve rather than cook for them because they do not want to break a nail. 

And the Paisas frequently describe Costenas as being: stupid, ignorant, lazy, low class, prepagos.

Seriously those are terms that have been said about the other region many, many times during my visits and online discussions. I was really shocked at some of this talk because I thought all Colombians loved each other, but I guess not really.

I guess the best thing you can do is marry a Calena. Because although they seem to get a bit of a rep as party girls, they generally have been given respect from the Paisas and Costenas I have talked with. Both say Calenas are super beautiful. And having been there a few times, I cannot really argue with that.

[Jeff S]

Being hardworking and driven, and not knowing how to dance are "flaws?" While lying is a cultural "thing?" Okie dokie. Sure glad I went west and not south.

[Alabamaboy!]

Jeff, both things are "flaws" and "cultural things". And it is true. It is not healthy to live like many gringos do, constantly checking their Blackberry, popping antacids and anti depressants because of stress, never being able to chill out. That is a flaw. That is crazy. But many of us are that hard driven.

And not being able to dance well? To us yes, it is ridiculous to think of that as being a cultural "flaw", but to Colombianas and probably 1/2 of the world, it is a big time flaw.

Just like telling those stupid white lies for no reason is a "cutural flaw/thing".

The point is that I think nobody is really perfect. So it is irrational to think you will be able to find someone perfect. Or even that you deserve someone perfect.

And if you are dating women in a particular country, you should be aware of that country's "culture" and what is "normal" there. Because they may put a different value on things than what you do.

[Ray]

Ray, no offense, but it is a cultural thing in Colombia about the lying. I know many guys here on the forum have great wives who are exceptions to the rule, but in general I have been told that is the case. I have seen it with my own two eyes, lots of people lying about stupid things. Most of the things completely harmless and without rhyme or reason.  Friends, relatives, adults, kids, everyone.

In the US we have cultural things that are not so great or appealing also. Like many of us are workaholics who cannot relax and enjoy life, most of us cannot dance that great, many other things. But the women generally accept those "flaws" to a certain extent and will work with us on improving them if we are willing to try. Especially if we were to spend significant time living there.

So I think the same thing will be true with some of the negative things we find in them as well.

But if it is obvious that things are not going to work out, then of course there is absolutely no merit in staying together hoping for a prayer, that somehow they will be better in 5 years than they were at the end of the first year.

I understand what you are trying to say Alabama, BUT… I think that your example is a terrible one.

Working hard and not being able to dance ARE NOT character flaws. Lying IS!

Working hard is a virtue and has played a major part in making America the great country that it is today. Our workers are the most productive of any major industrialized nation. Don’t most immigrants come to America to be rewarded for their hard work? They flee from socialist countries where you work according to your ability and get paid according to your need, which eventually turns everyone into a lazy bum. I clearly see working hard as a positive part of our culture.

Not dancing so great?? I see that as an insignificant part of the culture and is definitely NOT a character issue, like lying and deceit.

I can agree that all lies are not mortal sins. Harmless little lies are not deal-breakers for some guys, but I firmly believe that once a person has gotten into the bad habit of lying about small things, the big lies come much easier.

When a potential mate repeatedly lies to you with the clear intention of deceiving you, then I believe you would be foolish to tie the knot with such a person. You are only asking for trouble. But if that’s what you have decided to do, then I wish you luck and happiness.

Some guys pick a mate based primarily on her looks. For others, the primary quality is her character. Personally, I’ll go with the character…

Ray

[Alabamaboy!]

Ray, I do want to clarify that I was talking about a "workaholic", someone who overworks, does not enjoy life, who is addicted to work for the sake of working. There are many of those here in the US, and I do consider that to be a character flaw. And I am sure most people would too. Many times those people ignore their family, friends, health issues and drive themselves to an early grave or end up in divorce. The inability to dance well I guess is more of a symptom of being a workaholic or not being able to enjoy life rather than actually being THE flaw itself.

And when I am talking about these things I am talking about how we perceive people from other countries and how they perceive us.

To them at times we seem very, very crazy and to us, they appear equally as nuts.

For sure character is the primary thing I am interested in. That is why I got divorced. And it will be the determining factor whether this relationship works out or not. There are a million hot Colombianas to date. So looks are not really that important to me.

[Ray]

Alabama,

I used to work my ass off, usually 17 hours a day, seven days a week, for months at time. I was not "adicted" to work, but I loved my job.

I also knew how to relax and enjoy life, had no work-related health issues, and did not go to an early grave.

I never ignored my family and most of my friends were working right there alongside me.

Some may call that being a "workaholic" or believe that to be a charachter flaw, but to them I say baloney! 

Ray

[Jeff S]

I agree with Ray - working hard and being driven do not necessarily equate to stress and high blood pressure. Lots of people love their jobs and still enjoy life, and it doesn't create any marital friction. I have been doing that for many years, interspersing it with 4 and 5 day weekends for trips to nearby cities and resorts with my wife. She enjoys the lifestyle that can only come from hard work, too.

1/2 the world thinks not being able to dance well is a character flaw? That's funny and wildly overstated. Maybe half of your world - but certainly not half of mine. I don't remember seeing any dancing going on in India, and you should see them spaz out in China - That's close to half already. Ever been to a night club in Europe or Japan? I'm not much of a dancer but it never was a handicap in Latin America back in my single days either.

[Alabamaboy!]

OK Ray and Jeff, let me re-phrase things then "it is a character flaw if you do have high blood pressure, are overweight, etc. and/or have a relationship or family who is suffering due to the husband/father overworking because they are 'addicted' to their jobs or careers"

Sounds like you guys have things under control, but you know there are a lot of guys who don't. And I think that is very sad and abusive to themselves and their families.

And this is what I clarified yesterday: "The inability to dance well I guess is more of a symptom of being a workaholic or not being able to enjoy life rather than actually being THE flaw itself.

And when I am talking about these things I am talking about how we perceive people from other countries and how they perceive us"

And yes I guess you got me on the fact that the Chinese, Japanese, and Indians are not real big on the dancing or relaxing. But pretty much all of Mexico, central America, South America, many parts of Europe, Philippines it is very important.

I have never met a girl form Colombia that did not have dancing as one of their most favorite pasttimes. And I have never met a Colombiana that could not dance well. So I think it is pretty important if you are dating women from there. Just as if they are dating a gringo, they should try to step it up in the "work ethic" department if needed.

[Ray]

The inability to dance well I guess is more of a symptom of being a workaholic or not being able to enjoy life rather than actually being THE flaw itself.

And yes I guess you got me on the fact that the Chinese, Japanese, and Indians are not real big on the dancing or relaxing. But pretty much all of Mexico, central America, South America, many parts of Europe, Philippines it is very important.

So it appears that mainly the poorer countries are the ones where dancing is very important?

Then I guess it follows that being poor is a symptom of not working very hard, and not working very hard is a symptom of dancing too much? Hey, it makes as much sense as your logic.

Being able to dance well has nothing to do with work. It’s mostly a coordination thing!

And being able to relax has nothing to do with the ability to dance. Some people relax by dancing and others relax by fishing.

Ray

[utopiacowboy]

As long as we're on the topic of stereotypes, my wife's family thinks:

Americans are fat slobs.
American women are bitchy sluts.
American cities are violent and unsafe. (Pot calling the kettle black here!)
American men are cold fish who only care about money.

I could go on and on but you get the idea. Everybody has crazy ideas about everybody else. Not to say there isn't a grain of truth in every stereotype but living your life on that basis is a recipe for trouble.

[Alabamaboy!]

UC: at least some of those stereotypes are true. That is why I am not attracted to gringas. And those are some of the same complaints I hear over and over again from Colombianas describing their interactions with Gringos. So I guess they are not only perceptions, there is reality in the mix also.

And that is what I was trying to explain to Ray. To us, it is absurd to think being a workaholic is a bad person. To other parts of the world, they think like that.

Especially to many Costenas I have met. They think we are completely nuts here. And I think they are. But when I am there for long periods of time, I tend to "assimilate" a bit and am super lazy there. And I am hoping that the same thing will happen when she comes here as well.

And before everyone jumps me and says it will not happen like that, I have already seen several cases where it did happen that way with Colombians coming to the States. But all of those examples were with Cachacos.

Who knows, but I will soon find out and report back honestly here with the results.

[Researcher]

     Hey 'Bamaboy!, my wife has been here over 1 year and a half and has fit in very well so far.She is from Bogota and we live in a relatively small town.She loves it here and has adjusted quite well.I didn't notice it until we visited Bogota last year. She has changed.We will visit again probably next month so I probably will see it even more.


    Researcher

[Bob_S]

UC: at least some of those stereotypes are true.

LOL! That's what I was thinking.  They may not have hit the bull's eye, but they definitely hit the target. 

To us, it is absurd to think being a workaholic is a bad person. To other parts of the world, they think like that.
Especially to many Costenas I have met. They think we are completely nuts here.

And to the French, anyone who works more than a 36-hour week and takes less than 2 months vacation a year is overly ambitious.  If you're good with someone who has a mañana attitude, you'll find them.  But if you want someone who is industrious and ambitious, find a person who is like that before you marry them, don't expect to change them after you tie the knot.  Just a general rule of thumb when it comes to relationships.

[JimD]

It is my observation that the country people in Colombia, the campesinos and those who live in rural villages are the poorest of the population and they are also by far the hardest workers. People from the big cities such as Cali really don´t work hard and are always on the look out for shortcuts to earning easy money. In the country but close in to Cali the daily wage for hard labor is $20.000 (you could nearly cut that in half in a village further out). In Cali you won´t even find a housekeeper (short of an interna who gets room and board) who will work for that amount of money.