Good Girls and Bad Girls - are they the same

[Zon]

This topic can get a little dicey; and in the end, it is a judgement call that can only be made on an individual basis ... nonetheless, it would be interesting and perhaps useful to collect many people's experiences on the topic - including horror stories and success stories.

There is a thin line between a very eligible Colombiana and what appears to us AM to be a "professional dater". These are woman that have many choices for local guys and admirers they meet on the internet. More often than not, many of these girls do things that, in Colombia, is accepted, as long as nobody finds out (you know what I mean).

AND, BEFORE YOU GUYS EXPRESS OUTRAGE. Of course there are exceptions, but the exceptions are MUCH RARER than I would have guessed before living there.

It is interesting to me that since I have left Cali, my friendships have deepened and become more real and authentic with women that were obviously "players". There is a devil and an angel in us all ...

Which leads me to offer this question for discussion: Can women with an abundance of experience in men turn out to be worthy of serious consideration for a partner in life?

(I ask, for the purposes of this discussion, to keep this question focused on women of Colombia ONLY since cultural generalizations are different for Russia; Asia; and Latin America)

And I am not talking about the common "Scammer" situations that we hear about when a gringo meets ONE girl then visits for ONE week. Things don't work out, and the guy cries foul. I am talking about the chapters of phases of a human life. What are acceptable learning experiences, and what are decisions that scare for life and are unredeemable.)

[Ray]

(I ask, for the purposes of this discussion, to keep this question focused on women of Colombia ONLY since cultural generalizations are different for Russia; Asia; and Latin America)

If you're talking sluts, then I think a slut is a slut no matter which country they come from.

Can marriage to a slut work out for the best? Sure, if you're willing to take the risk and accept responsibility for your choices if it falls apart... 

Ray

[fschmidt]

Which leads me to offer this question for discussion: Can women with an abundance of experience in men turn out to be worthy of serious consideration for a partner in life?

If the experience is sexual, then no.  Do not marry a slut.  Men and women are very different.  Casual sex destroys women's ability to bond.  (But this is not true for men.)

The two best determining factors for a woman's ability to bond are her lack of sexual experience (counted by number of men she has had) and the stability of her parent's marriage.

[utopiacowboy]

There is a segment of Colombian society which is still deeply traditional, Catholic and conservative. Fortunately (or unfortunately as the case may be), it is not a society with which most gringos have any experience.

[Woody]

There is a thin line between a very eligible Colombiana and what appears to us AM to be a "professional dater". These are woman that have many choices for local guys and admirers they meet on the internet. More often than not, many of these girls do things that, in Colombia, is accepted, as long as nobody finds out (you know what I mean).


Which leads me to offer this question for discussion: Can women with an abundance of experience in men turn out to be worthy of serious consideration for a partner in life?

Are we talking about "free-spirits" or prepagos?

Here is my take on things, and this is far from a concrete opinion as little details of the specific circumstances change the feeling I get:

Prepagos:
I am of the opinion that once a woman takes cash for sex, she has opened Pandora's box. Can a woman change later on in life, absolutely! But I would rather not take that chance, and honestly, why should I? There are many more fish in the sea without baggage.

Free-spirit:
This one is tough. I take this one on a case by case basis. I mean, most of us expect our partner to have some sexual experience. I mean, really, who want's a virgin? Not this guy. I expect a never-married woman of, say, 25 to have had somewhere around 10 to 50 partners. When you think about it, that is really not that many. Let us assume that, on average, women become sexually active at 15. If she had 30 partners, that is a new partner every four months, not really that much. What is comes down to is this: How many guys per year do you think is acceptable, multiply that by the number of years she is sexually active and you have your ceiling number.
Now, if she has had 400 partners, that is a whole different story. That would mean averaging 9 days between partners.


Now for the crux of the whole argument: Can you (with relative ease) find a woman that will remain faithful in Colombia? I hope so.
In Medellin/Cali/Barranquilla/Bogota? Maybe. Larger population centers tend to mean less conservative and more free-spirited.  I may end up going to a more rural area to find her, but I am not rushing into it.

[Jeff S]

Wow

[Ray]

HUH?

For a woman of 25, 50 different sex partners is not that many?

HOLY SHYT!

For your sake, I hope you're wearing at least 3 condoms at a time! 

[Woody]

For a woman of 25, 50 different sex partners is not that many?

Context my friend, context. Five sexual partners a year. Which is pushing it for me, ideally the number would be 2 or less on average. Less means a higher probability of stable, long term relationships.

Notice how looking at it like that changes everything?


Consider this also: Have you always engaged in discussions of partner counts before doing the deed? No? Do you know a true count for all your past partners? Hell, how about your count? I have been cautious where it counted, never caught a STD, ever. Then again, I have never done a one-night-stand.

[Ray]

No, it changes nothing.

Fifty different sex partners by age 25 is SLUT material!

[robert angel]

Regarding:

>>No, it changes nothing.

Fifty different sex partners by age 25 is SLUT material!<<

I really have to agree. I think actually even 10--15 by age 25 tops, is pushing it. especially in this day and age. When I was from age 15 to 30, I really had no problem pretty much (if I wanted) continuously having a girlfriend with all 'benefits'and I know this doesn't sound very modest, but they were generally pretty hot looking numbers too. They were sexy physically, as in when without clothes and also knew how to dress sexy and wear makeup to enhance what the good Lord had given them. When I would eventually break up with one, another--usually from within the same general circle--even a friend of my now former GF, always seemed to be available. This was the case in medium to large sized cities.

BUT I tended to have pretty long term relationships with any girl I was intimate with and I was able to know beforehand--or find out (if I couldn't sense already) if this gal was 'easy', had slept around alot etc. My focus was on having a nice, hopefully fairly drama free relationship and when we worked our way to the sex relation point (and someties it didn't take too long if I was familiar with her) fine tuning good into great sex. I for sure didn't screw 25 girls, never mind 50, by age 25, but what I didn't have in quantity, I sure as hell made up for in quality.

I could have screwed plenty more, but I chose the cream of the crop and I don't have any disease/s now and never had. I have very few regrets about babes I might have 'bagged'.

If I knew some gal that caught my fancy initially, had sex with 25 or 50 guys by age 25, I'd run like a bat outta hell!

[Henry]

I cant speak about Colombia, but I dont think the nationality of the woman is relevant at all.

I am entirely in agreement iwth Fschmidt and Ray on this. I am sorry to say, any woman who has had greater than 20 men is a slut in my category, regardless of her age. 50 is just outrageous, and I think you might as well marry a former prostitute or porn star if that number is acceptable (considering men are paying for sex either way).

You dont want a woman that's addicted to new penis every couple of months. That kind of sexual appetite is nearly impossible to break. Besides, just imagine what that will have done to her psyche.

There is a connection between sex and love in the non-whore. If the woman has had too many partners, that connection is broken and it can not be healed anymore than a pickle can return to a cucumber.

Now UT says there is a very conservative part of Colombia somewhere that Gringos arent privy too. On the other hand, I remember posts by Kiltboy who said that he "dated" over 125 women down there and that they want to sleep with the man by date three.

It might seem that Colombia should be crossed off your list if you are lookign for sexual conservatism. Unfortunately for some of us, if we are looking for attractive women (hotties), chances are she probably had tons of guys by the time we meet them.

My greatest fear is winding up with a former prostitute whose family doesnt warn you and you never figure it out til your 10th Anni. Eww.

[Calipro]

My greatest fear is winding up with a former prostitute whose family doesnt warn you and you never figure it out til your 10th Anni. Eww.

LOL!!  Seems to me that if you made it to a 10 Ann. that would be the least of your worries.

One man's prepago is an other man's lifetime loving partner.....prepago is a loaded term...and I take a very broad interpretation and a lot of colombianos do not...I use the term to describe any woman that needs a certain amount of economical help to make the relationship work.....alot of married colombianos have a woman on the side and pay the rent and college bills, etc. Now the woman a lot of times really cares about the guy but they both know the relationship will go no where...so the woman on the side is taking the money really to compensate her for opportunity loses because these colombianos do not pay the rent and let her go out with other guys even if they are married....

Then on the other end of the spectrum you have women that really are not in love with the guy and really wouldn't consider any type of serious relationship with him if money wasn't envolved...this is what most colombianos consider a prepago....

Women that have multiple sex partners that they charge money for sexual favors are prostitutes but colombianos will still refer to them as prepagos if they are trying to be nice and non offensive.....but they really are prostitutes and not prepagos.

There are a hell of a lot of Colombianas that really can't afford to be faithful because they are unemployed and need to eat....so if have a poor little one and want her to be faithful while you are gone you better turn her into a prepago by at least giving her enough money to survive on.

[robert angel]

In all fairness to Woody and some others, I was--and I wasn't the only person who did this--making judgements based on the number of sex partners based on what I think is  more typically N. American style and I don't think that was a fair comparison--it was out of context.

From what I've heard, a lot of the gals in Brazil, to name just one place, put rabbits to shame....

It for sure isn't Boise, Idaho down there!

Glad I didn't cause a flame war--they're usually pretty pointless anyway, and kudos to you guys for not looking to start one.

[Woody]

In all fairness to Woody and some others, I was--and I wasn't the only person who did this--making judgements based on the number of sex partners based on what I think is  more typically N. American style and I don't think that was a fair comparison--it was out of context.

From what I've heard, a lot of the gals in Brazil, to name just one place, put rabbits to shame....

It for sure isn't Boise, Idaho down there!

Glad I didn't cause a flame war--they're usually pretty pointless anyway, and kudos to you guys for not looking to start one.

The following is all opinion, as this is not a factual debate, but rather how we perceive things:
This is why I didn't bother responding after Ray's last comment. It was plain to see that no one was paying attention to the part that this is a strictly Colombiana discussion. Sure, if we were talking about Vietnam or the Philippines then 50 would be outrageous. Hell, if we were talking about Vietnam then five would be a high number. For the USA it depends on the part of the country. For my hometown, anything over ten I would be cautious. If we were talking about my current city, anything over fifteen is cause for concern. For some place like Medellin or Cali, I would expect the number to be over twenty. It is not that I want it to be high, but that a higher number would not shock me.

And no, I am not a hypocrite. I am still in the single digits for myself, normal for where I grew up. I was never rushing to the sack with any of my previous girlfriends.

I take into consideration cultural differences when I make my judgments.

What it all comes down to in the end is this: What are YOU comfortable with. There are guys who only want to marry virgins(which is fine, as long as you don't deflower them before marriage, that makes you a hypocrite), good luck to them. There are guys that want their sexual partner to have a lot of experience and make things exciting in bed, good for them. Some of us are satisfied with a happy medium.

Oh, and Boise eh? I may make it up there(Friend is from that area) in 2011/2012 for some dune riding.

[fschmidt]

It was plain to see that no one was paying attention to the part that this is a strictly Colombiana discussion.
[...]

I take into consideration cultural differences when I make my judgments.

I think the point of those of us who don't want sluts for wives is that we do not take cultural differences into account.  We measure a slut on an absolute scale by the number of prior partners.  So there is no need for us to consider cultural differences.  I am only saying this to clear up any misunderstanding.  It is not that we aren't paying attention.  It is that we consciously don't consider that this is a Colombian discussion relevant.  If a culture is such that all women have lots of partners, then I personally would consider that a slut culture and I would recommend that men looking for non-slut wives look elsewhere.

[Ray]

This is why I didn't bother responding after Ray's last comment. It was plain to see that no one was paying attention to the part that this is a strictly Colombiana discussion.

I heard what you were saying Woody.

Actually, I think it was you who weren't paying attention when I said that it doesn't matter which country she is from because a slut is a slut.

To attempt to make excuses for slut behavior based on cultural norms is not smart IMHO.

If you find more than 10 sex partners unacceptable where you live, then why in the world would you accept a young woman who has been boned by 50 different guys in another culture?

My advice is to not compromise your own standards no matter which culture you are looking in. Not every cultural norm is necessarily good. Take the good from each culture and throw out the bad.

Ray

[Dan Las Vegas]

Why would you expect the number to be over 20 in Medellin ?  I think you are making very broad assumptions for someone who has not been there.  While I don't claim to be an expert on Medellin, I would be surprised to find out that the average paisa was at 20. But it would depend on the type of women you choose to hang out with, perhaps mudd and UC can throw their two cents into this. 

There is a segment of Colombian society which is still deeply traditional, Catholic and conservative. Fortunately (or unfortunately as the case may be), it is not a society with which most gringos have any experience.

 

UC makes a powerful point here

[Jamie]

I don’t know the exact number, but if I recall correctly every study I have seen shows the average man and woman in the U.S. has less than 10 partners in a lifetime, to put some perspective on the wild numbers I am seeing.

[Bob_S]

I cant speak about Colombia, but I don't think the nationality of the woman is relevant at all.
...
You don't want a woman that's addicted to new penis every couple of months. That kind of sexual appetite is nearly impossible to break. Besides, just imagine what that will have done to her psyche.

There is a connection between sex and love in the non-whore. If the woman has had too many partners, that connection is broken and it can not be healed anymore than a pickle can return to a cucumber.
...

That's what I'm thinkin'.  Cultural difference or no, women are still women.  And any woman who jumps from member to member every 3 months for the past 10 years is fundamentally broken in a key aspect of her feminine psyche.  She's damaged goods and is a bad risk to be a good and faithful wife.  But, hey, some guys are up for a challenge and might prefer someone who's willing to play sharing games with the neighbors. 

[Alabamaboy!]

Based on my experiences in Colombia I can tell you that you can find anything under the rainbow there. I have had a relationship with one girl who told me her first serious boyfriend was when she was 15, and the guy was 34 or something! Needless to say she was well versed in just about every trick in the book by the time I met up with her.

Another, the same age, from the same city and socio-economic background told me she only had one guy for one session. And based on her skills in the bed, I am pretty sure she was not exaggerating.

Colombia is a very strange place with a lot of BS about conservative Catholicism, but at the same time having a wide open "semi-pro"/prepago atmosphere which seems to be almost accepted. I have seen families with their daughters, and they know they are up to no good, but they do not ask any questions about where the money and nice clothes came from. It is like there own version of "don't ask - don't tell"

And you cannot judge a book by its cover all the time either. And you will probably not get a completely straight answer all the time when you ask the girl.

Just always remember if they blow your mind (and other things) the first time in the bed with you, then they must have had a bit of practice along the way somewhere. If they don't know how to move, are tentative, not so skilled, I would take that as a strong sign that they do not have many miles on them.

The first reaction of a lot of guys I think would be to get serious with the girl who is a dynamo in the bed right out of the gates, but that may be the exact worst approach to take.

[utopiacowboy]

In my little Texas town, the high school girls are cock-hungry sluts. Is it a cultural thing to have a hundred partners before you're out of high school? Or are they just whores? My Colombian in-laws are shocked by the behavior of women here and think that US women have to be the sluttiest on the planet. So go figure.

[Alabamaboy!]

UC, that is true. One girl I was dating said she had been with 4 guys before me and was only in her early 20's. Usually I figure the girl will maybe give you 1/2 of the real number, so I was thinking 8 guys. Anyway a couple of my friends were saying that was too many partners by the time she was only 22.

I was telling my sister who lives in the Atlanta area, about this, and she was telling me she has heard from her two teenage daughters that this number of sexual partners is had by some of local girls there in a good weekend, if someone's parents are out of town and they are throwing some parties!!!!

Those Colombianas don't have anything on our own sluts here right in the good old USA.

[robert angel]

Somehow I don't think the upcoming US Census is going to shed much light on the true figures.

[Calipro]

Based on my experiences in Colombia I can tell you that you can find anything under the rainbow there. I have had a relationship with one girl who told me her first serious boyfriend was when she was 15, and the guy was 34 or something! Needless to say she was well versed in just about every trick in the book by the time I met up with her.

Another, the same age, from the same city and socio-economic background told me she only had one guy for one session. And based on her skills in the bed, I am pretty sure she was not exaggerating.

Colombia is a very strange place with a lot of BS about conservative Catholicism, but at the same time having a wide open "semi-pro"/prepago atmosphere which seems to be almost accepted. I have seen families with their daughters, and they know they are up to no good, but they do not ask any questions about where the money and nice clothes came from. It is like there own version of "don't ask - don't tell"

And you cannot judge a book by its cover all the time either. And you will probably not get a completely straight answer all the time when you ask the girl.

Just always remember if they blow your mind (and other things) the first time in the bed with you, then they must have had a bit of practice along the way somewhere. If they don't know how to move, are tentative, not so skilled, I would take that as a strong sign that they do not have many miles on them.

The first reaction of a lot of guys I think would be to get serious with the girl who is a dynamo in the bed right out of the gates, but that may be the exact worst approach to take.

I couldn't have said it better myself......however I don't think it's a bad idea to get serious with women that knock your socks off in bed....provided you'd rather talk to them at the breakfast table the next day... instead of read the cereal box. hahaha!!!

[dennislevy]

Most of this thread has been moved tro the Flame Room...and that s fine.

I would liekto offer this....as way to keep this thread going.

My dad knew more about women then any man I ve ever met. 

I saw him at parties in his 60s, with women hiitng on him and was the most accomplished flirt I ever met...charming, funny and subtle.  My parents were married for 39 years and my mother accepted it,,,he just loved to talk with women and women adored him.   If he ever cheated on her, I dont know..I never saw or heard any evidence of it

From 1948 to 1952 he was Europe traveling in England Scotland in France, Italy, Spain and Greece before he met my mother in France in 1951. In addition to English he spoke French, Spanish, German and Hebrew.  God know how many women he was with...if I had to guess, easily more then a hundred by the time he was 33. he was 5 5, not particualry good looking, but he had a great smile and eyes that were expressive.

Some of my dad s thoughts about women
Find out what a woman cares about and if you sincerely can, care about the same things.
If you can get a woman to laugh at you and with you, its one of one of the most wonderful tools for seduction.
Always make a wonan feel GOOD about herself. Build her up.
Find women who like you for who you are...and politely disengage and stay away from the rest.
Find women who attract you with thher mind and their heart.
Every woman  does things they wish they hadn t done in their life...if they trust you  enough to tell you....don t remind them later.