Where do I start?

[sean126]

masonb,

To copy and paste someone's response...use the "quote" button on the top right hand corner of their post and it will automatically produce their quote and you can post your comments underneath their quote.  You really don't have to do this every time.  If you post right after someone your addressing, I believe they will figure it out.  Hope this is helpful.

You need a little thick skin to stay here.  Sometimes reading someone's responses can be taken the wrong way, when they actually mean it another way.  Just hang in there.

But we've had some debates in the past about writing vs. just showing up and I believe it was almost 50-50 with the guys.  But I am one who thinks its best to write your top 10-15 women or so and exchange pictures so hopefully the more sincere women will let you know if they are interested in meeting you after they see your picture.  Also....many times you can get a sense if the woman is sincere or not by how she responds in her emails.  If she answers your questions, if she asks her own questions about you....you can just tell.  You can do this with your top picks and if one doesn't like you based on your looks...which isn't a bad thing...then you can replace her with someone else before you get there.

Just showing up isn't a bad thing...I just prefer the emails prior to arriving to weed out the ones who aren't physically attracted to me.  It just saves a little time and money. 

[Capstone]

I'll make sure to use spell check next time.  Why the hostility?  Is it really necessary to be rude? 

Just out of curiousity where did you get the info on that act?  I'd like to check that out further so I can see either why or how we can do it if it is illegal.  AFA is pretty good about covering all the angles so I want to make sure they know about this.

No hostility on my part just a big case of skepticism. Sorry but when someone comes on here touting a product or service and then it turns out that they actually work for a company that provides that product or service without making that point clear from the very beginning then you relinquish any and all credibility.

[jm21-2]

That's a pretty big thing to miss...

http://www.filipiniana.net/ArtifactView.do?artifactID=L00000000037

I think you will find that there are very few people on this forum who would reccomend AFA. If you want to go to a party and meet a lot of girls, that's fine and fun and dandy, but not really the best idea for meeting serious marriage material, especially in Asia. I believe there was also a link between AFA and the pornography industry at one point.

I think there is some hostility because your posts so far make it seem highly suspicious that you are acting on behalf of AFA, but you claim you aren't. There is a commercial membership for people selling products here so that people are aware that there may be some bias.

[masonb]

No hostility on my part just a big case of skepticism. Sorry but when someone comes on here touting a product or service and then it turns out that they actually work for a company that provides that product or service without making that point clear from the very beginning then you relinquish any and all credibility.

Point taken.  As I said before, I'm merely the front desk guy at AFA.  I didn't disclose that information in the beginning because I felt like people would misinterpret what I was trying to do on this forum based on that fact.  Like I have said previously I was simply stating what I know.  I still feel as though you believe I'm trying to promote or sell my company and I can assure you I'm not.  It doesn't benefit me anyway as I get paid hourly and I have nothing to gain by it.

So skepticism and credibility loss aside, please know that my intentions are good and I've decided from now on instead of giving advice on what I've heard to work best I will simply be asking questions and implementing my opinions for the soul purpose of making myself more knowledgable about this industry.  Sorry if I appeared to be coming across any other way.



I also checked out why we were able to provide group tours and personal introductions in Davao and Cebu and was informed that because of good business practices and the fact that we have a native running our offices in these cities we have recieved permission to operate there.

[masonb]

That's a pretty big thing to miss...

http://www.filipiniana.net/ArtifactView.do?artifactID=L00000000037

I think you will find that there are very few people on this forum who would reccomend AFA. If you want to go to a party and meet a lot of girls, that's fine and fun and dandy, but not really the best idea for meeting serious marriage material, especially in Asia. I believe there was also a link between AFA and the pornography industry at one point.

I think there is some hostility because your posts so far make it seem highly suspicious that you are acting on behalf of AFA, but you claim you aren't. There is a commercial membership for people selling products here so that people are aware that there may be some bias.

I get what your saying.  The purpose of our tours is to introduce men to many asian women for the purpose of long term relationship and possibly marriage when they meet the right person.  The social events that are held are not some kind of crazy party to hook up guys with asian women for the purpose of anything that isn't innocent.  They are designed to allow men to meet these women in person, go on first dates with the ones they are interested in getting to know better, and when the man finds a woman that he is interested in then he can chose to date her exclusively.  I would like to know why you feel there is something wrong with that.

Again, I personally don't care whether you are interested in AFA or not.  It doesn't really matter to me but it does seem like they do a pretty good job about making it easy for someone to actually accomplish meeting a foreign woman easily as opposed to doing it on your own.  Whatever works for you works for you, its pretty obvious to me that each person is different in what works best for them in their search for a foreign bride. 
Maybe I am bias in my oppinion of AFA because I work for them, and again before I make this next statement I'm simply stating what I know so please don't take this as a sales tactic.  However if AFA was such a useless service than why is it that they have hundreds upon hundreds of testimonials of people who are more than happy about how they were treated when they did utilize our service? 

Honestly I can understand if a group tour or personal introduction is not your thing, but may I ask you have you ever done it?  Because if you haven't utilized AFA's services than to speak negatively of their service is only an assumption and not an opinion based on facts.

Thoughts?

[Ray]

I also checked out why we were able to provide group tours and personal introductions in Davao and Cebu and was informed that because of good business practices and the fact that we have a native running our offices in these cities we have recieved permission to operate there.

Baloney!

I'm sure that AFA has the wriiten documents, signed by the appropriate governemnt officials, giving them permission to violate Philippine law. Could you please post a copy of that as proof of your claim?

They are very serious about that law in the Philippines...

Ray

[masonb]

Well Ray according to my boss (one of the owners) it isn't a law that is really enforced too much these days.  I guess we invited the mayors of each city to attend the first socials and they welcomed our company to operate in their cities.  According to my boss they have driven some introduction companies out, but as for AFA we have been in good standing over there which is why we are allowed to opperate.  As for a written agreement I don't know of any but honestly if it was as big of a deal as you are implying I don't think that AFA would continue to do business there.  AFA is pretty good about keeping things on the up and up in my experience and it doesn't make sense that they would risk any kind of legal ramifications if they weren't 100% sure that it was ok for them to do business there.

[Cbear]

So what you are saying is that they have bribed the local officials, because no matter how you frame it, it is illegal there and they are starting to enforce it. I hope you don't get caught in the net when they come for AFA.

Just a couple of months ago a huge bust took place at a tour set up for Koreans, my guess is all those men are still in jail and will be for a long time. They didn't just arrest the tour operators but the clients as well.

The tour must not have bribed the right people, or the political opponents found out and acted on it.

So when the ax falls, and someday it will, you better be far far away.

[masonb]

Thanks for your advice but I'm not too worried about it.  I actually just spoke with the affilliate office in the Phillipines and he pretty much told me the same thing.  He said it isn't a law that is being enforced too heavily and our practices are being closely watched by their government so we do have to be careful about how we conduct business but everything is consistantly on the up and up.

[Dan]

Easy guys. masonb made an honest mistake and is now trying to make amends and learn some things. Don't jump on him for passing along the information he has been provided.

And BTW - while I have not been able to find the actual legislation, it now appears that Taiwan has joined the PI in outlawing "Mail Order Bride" activities - reference: http://www.nowpublic.com/world/taiwan-bans-mail-order-brides-marriage-brokering - this one, for *incoming* MOB's (as contrasted to the PI's legislation focused on *outgoing* MOB's).

- Dan

[Dan]

Thanks for your advice but I'm not too worried about it.  I actually just spoke with the affilliate office in the Phillipines and he pretty much told me the same thing.  He said it isn't a law that is being enforced too heavily and our practices are being closely watched by their government so we do have to be careful about how we conduct business but everything is consistantly on the up and up.

Mason,

Take a look here or at GoodWife in the links directories, and look for those agencies who advertise for Filipinas. Many (most?) will characterize their activities as "Pen-Pals" so as to differentiate from a MOB agency, such as AFA.

Also, in case you do not know - one of our members, William3rd, is the former long-term attorney for AFA. You will probably soon find he is not an AFA fan. Just FYI

- Dan

[masonb]

Thanks Dan! :-)

[bcc_1_2]

I know he claims just to be the deskboy but after looking at his IP isn't that enough to classify him as a commercial member? He may claim not to be selling something but his advice suggests otherwise.  Considering the nasty tactics his employer (if he isn't an owner or higher up in the company himself) uses especially on the NET... I wouldn't take anything he says seriously. If anyone with AFA wants to post online they need to stop slandering other businesses and using fake message boards and crap like that.

You know how they say you are what you eat? It applies to where you work IMO too.

Your boss called an entire agency in Costa Rica full of hookers online on his fake message board (with no merit) just so he could sell profiles and do a tour in Costa Rica. We could post all day about the terrible things AFA does, but I don't have the energy for it. Maybe William does.

[Dan]

I know he claims just to be the deskboy but after looking at his IP isn't that enough to classify him as a commercial member? He may claim not to be selling something but his advice suggests otherwise.  Considering the nasty tactics his employer (if he isn't an owner or higher up in the company himself) uses especially on the NET... I wouldn't take anything he says seriously. If anyone with AFA wants to post online they need to stop slandering other businesses and using fake message boards and crap like that.

You know how they say you are what you eat? It applies to where you work IMO too.

Your boss called an entire agency in Costa Rica full of hookers online on his fake message board (with no merit) just so he could sell profiles and do a tour in Costa Rica. We could post all day about the terrible things AFA does, but I don't have the energy for it. Maybe William does.

bcc,

Couple of things:

* Mason 'came clean' with me quickly in the PM's we exchanged - and he carried that through (without my prompting) to the open forum. I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and accept his explanation - and encourage others to do the same. Give the guy a break.

* You make reference to actions purportedly by AFA at other internet sites. I am not familiar with those actions, and do not think they should have any bearing here. There are just WAY too many nutty people on the internet to get all jazzed up over allegations of some misbehavior somewhere else that may or may not be factual or properly attributed. Let's leave that stuff THERE - unless and until it directly affects PL.

- Dan

[jm21-2]

I get what your saying.  The purpose of our tours is to introduce men to many asian women for the purpose of long term relationship and possibly marriage when they meet the right person.  The social events that are held are not some kind of crazy party to hook up guys with asian women for the purpose of anything that isn't innocent.  They are designed to allow men to meet these women in person, go on first dates with the ones they are interested in getting to know better, and when the man finds a woman that he is interested in then he can chose to date her exclusively.  I would like to know why you feel there is something wrong with that.

Again, I personally don't care whether you are interested in AFA or not.  It doesn't really matter to me but it does seem like they do a pretty good job about making it easy for someone to actually accomplish meeting a foreign woman easily as opposed to doing it on your own.  Whatever works for you works for you, its pretty obvious to me that each person is different in what works best for them in their search for a foreign bride. 
Maybe I am bias in my oppinion of AFA because I work for them, and again before I make this next statement I'm simply stating what I know so please don't take this as a sales tactic.  However if AFA was such a useless service than why is it that they have hundreds upon hundreds of testimonials of people who are more than happy about how they were treated when they did utilize our service? 

Honestly I can understand if a group tour or personal introduction is not your thing, but may I ask you have you ever done it?  Because if you haven't utilized AFA's services than to speak negatively of their service is only an assumption and not an opinion based on facts.

Thoughts?

My point was, as I tried to explain in my previous post, that Asian girls in general do not like guys who "shop around." Customs differ from country to country but a guy who wants to meet and date a lot of girls is considered very unappealing in most Asian countries. So decent girls would likely stay away from a social that introduces them to guys like that. Marriage agencies in general tend to be looked down on as well, which can often limit the quality of the girls they are able to recruit.

Just because a girl is from a poorer country does not mean she doesn't have standards. If you want to date a good girl in Asia chances are very high that you will get dumped if she finds out you are dating or corresponding with other women, or that you aren't serious about marriage.

From everything I have read AFA may be very successful at introducing a guy to a lot of women and getting them married. But it seems that such relationships are often short-lived.

[Dan]

From everything I have read AFA may be very successful at introducing a guy to a lot of women and getting them married. But it seems that such relationships are often short-lived.

William's records would seem to indicate so - however, our Survey of Cross-Cultural Marriage and Divorce is not so condemning - even of marriages resulting from short courtships. Reference: http://www.goodwife.com/survey/xcultural_p18.html.

- Dan

[masonb]

In Asia you may be right I have little experience as I have never traveled there.  I can say however that we do have a pretty big success rate and that alone tells me that you aren't necessarily right on the whole.

On what basis can you say that the marriages that were set up through our company are short lived?  Do you have any factual evidence to prove such a claim?

I know he claims just to be the deskboy but after looking at his IP isn't that enough to classify him as a commercial member? He may claim not to be selling something but his advice suggests otherwise.  Considering the nasty tactics his employer (if he isn't an owner or higher up in the company himself) uses especially on the NET... I wouldn't take anything he says seriously. If anyone with AFA wants to post online they need to stop slandering other businesses and using fake message boards and crap like that.

You know how they say you are what you eat? It applies to where you work IMO too.

Your boss called an entire agency in Costa Rica full of hookers online on his fake message board (with no merit) just so he could sell profiles and do a tour in Costa Rica. We could post all day about the terrible things AFA does, but I don't have the energy for it. Maybe William does.

Heresay that has nothing to do with me. 

If you don't believe that I am the front desk guy than call our 800 number (you can find it @ lovme.com) and see if you don't here a young lad on the other side of the phone saying to you "A Foreign Affair this is Mason how may I help you."

Get over it man I'm not trying to harm anyone here I honestly am trying to learn more about the industry and just because you don't like AFA doesn't mean you need to lash out at me.

Don't believe I have good intentions?  I personally don't really care anymore.  Get your panties unwaded.

[bcc_1_2]

* You make reference to actions purportedly by AFA at other internet sites.- Dan

AFA has used fake forums dedicated to our topic of discussion. I'd suggest you call up Spanish Eyes Costa Rica and learn about AFA's online behavior. He may have come clean... but because of AFA's history of misbehavior online I just don't trust him... whatever he does at AFA.

Just my opinion but he very well could have come here (or been sent here) just to drum up some business. The economy sucks and their packages are expensive... so why not send the office boy to drum up some business (assuming its not the owner himself).

Granted you calling him out in the first place helps everyone understand his angle.

[Dan]

In Asia you may be right I have little experience as I have never traveled there.  I can say however that we do have a pretty big success rate and that alone tells me that you aren't necessarily right on the whole.

On what basis can you say that the marriages that were set up through our company are short lived?  Do you have any factual evidence to prove such a claim?


Heresay that has nothing to do with me. 

If you don't believe that I am the front desk guy than call our 800 number (you can find it @ lovme.com) and see if you don't here a young lad on the other side of the phone saying to you "A Foreign Affair this is Mason how may I help you."

Get over it man I'm not trying to harm anyone here I honestly am trying to learn more about the industry and just because you don't like AFA doesn't mean you need to lash out at me.

Don't believe I have good intentions?  I personally don't really care anymore.  Get your panties unwaded.

Mason,

Couple of things:

* William has, in fact, been closely associated with AFA for a very long time - something you should be easily able to confirm with your bosses. He has also posted some stats from his own records that are not very favorable when considered in the context of the quick courtship crowd.

* As for the suspicions, as mentioned to you in PM's, this is a group that will quickly sniff out any charades. Unlike others who would like to be considered amongst the hard-crusted veterans - this group here at PL is the real deal. Ray was onto you almost instantly - and others would have followed suit. The fact that your initial posts were less than genuine means it is probably best now for YOU to be the contrite one, and allow that dust to settle before coming off too pious.

FWIW

- Dan

[bcc_1_2]

Get over it man I'm not trying to harm anyone here I honestly am trying to learn more about the industry and just because you don't like AFA doesn't mean you need to lash out at me.

Don't believe I have good intentions?  I personally don't really care anymore.  Get your panties unwaded.

Umm your company started a forum and used an ID (since nobody or hardly anybody real posted there) and said Spanish Eyes Costa Rica was full of hookers. Heresay my ass. AFA wanted to run an office and do tours in Costa Rica... so they decided to behave in that manner. And that is one example of what AFA has done in one country. We aren't talking about what Spanish Eyes told me. We are talking about what Spanish Eyes got pissed about after AFA started a fake forum and posted a bunch of false crap about them. Yea AFA really did that... not maybe.... there is no question... in fact I wouldn't doubt they are proud. ask them in a non threatening way and they might brag. Unless you did it yourself a few years back. No way to tell.

AFA tours are the worst place to go. Not saying you can't fine a serious girl there. But I'd keep my cash and stay out of the snake pit of those tours.

[masonb]

Ok I see what your getting at.

I can understand given the past experiences what all of you are saying.  I'm not going to continuously try to clear my name my conscious is clear.  The fact that I want to continue to remain on this forum may not mean anything to you guys but honestly I'm really enjoying taking part in this.

All BS aside I will make a promise to not bring up AFA unless it is brought up with me.  With that being said I can honestly say that even though I am considered the enemy because of how I initially started in this forum I still don't have any regrets.  In my POV I figured that the general reaction would have been the same if I just came out and said I worked for AFA right off the bat.

As far as me asking what WWDL was I honestly didn't know that it was a holding company for AFA, I just thought AFA was in and of itself.

Regardless I hope to learn more and more as my experience with this forum and my company progress, and don't be suprised if the topic of the company I work for isn't mentioned by me again as I have promised not to.


With that being said I hope we can let all this smoke blow over and just have some good conversations.

[masonb]

Umm your company started a forum and used an ID (since nobody or hardly anybody real posted there) and said Spanish Eyes Costa Rica was full of hookers. Heresay my ass. AFA wanted to run an office and do tours in Costa Rica... so they decided to behave in that manner. And that is one example of what AFA has done in one country. We aren't talking about what Spanish Eyes told me. We are talking about what Spanish Eyes got pissed about after AFA started a fake forum and posted a bunch of false crap about them. Yea AFA really did that... not maybe.... there is no question... in fact I wouldn't doubt they are proud. ask them in a non threatening way and they might brag. Unless you did it yourself a few years back. No way to tell.

AFA tours are the worst place to go. Not saying you can't fine a serious girl there. But I'd keep my cash and stay out of the snake pit of those tours.

Well I personally didn't fake forum anything.  Since this did supposedly happen your right I don't necessarily agree with that way of going about things honestly but if you look at my initial post you will see I didn't bad mouth anyone or anything.  My entire goal was to give my advice to Frisky Dingo based on my experience.  I apologize once again if I seemed less than genuin. 

[jm21-2]

In Asia you may be right I have little experience as I have never traveled there.  I can say however that we do have a pretty big success rate and that alone tells me that you aren't necessarily right on the whole.

On what basis can you say that the marriages that were set up through our company are short lived?  Do you have any factual evidence to prove such a claim?

Well, since this is the Asian board, I generally focus on Asian issues. I just don't see their model working in Asia, especially the group socials. It's possible the model works in other areas of the world. It just doesn't make sense in Asia.

You keep saying the company has a lot of successes, but what does success really mean? How do you define it? Is it meeting a girl? Getting married? Staying married 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

Also, what is a quality woman? Some guys would probably say a poor village girl who was a teenage virgin willing to marry a guy 20-30 years older would be ideal (OK, they wouldn't come out and say it...it would just 'somehow happen' that they ended up with the desperate teenage virgin...they were really looking for an older woman but the teen had the 'best heart' or some such). To others, they want a smart, well-educated, classy girl from a good family who has a good job. From what I've seen the girls advertised at Asian marriage broker sites typically fall into the former category.

Yes, as Dan presumed, my information about AFA comes mostly from what William has provided.

The problem with the survey, which was a great effort, is that there were very few women from Asian countries. I don't recall the survey dealing with specific marriage brokers.

[Dan]

The problem with the survey, which was a great effort, is that there were very few women from Asian countries. I don't recall the survey dealing with specific marriage brokers.

Actually, female respondents were largely from the FSU, however, male respondents addressed spouses from across the globe and the representative sample married to spouses from Asia was statistically significant - enough to be confident of drawing conclusions from the sample presented.

FYI

- Dan

[jm21-2]

Actually, female respondents were largely from the FSU, however, male respondents addressed spouses from across the globe and the representative sample married to spouses from Asia was statistically significant - enough to be confident of drawing conclusions from the sample presented.

FYI

- Dan

Ah, for some reason I missed that bit of information.

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but I'm curious as to whether statistically the results were similar no matter whether the foreign spouse was Asian or Latin or from the FSU? I looked over the survey but can't seem to find that information.