How it's gonna be.

[Cbear]

On my recent trip to the philippines I made the mistake of always asking my girl what she wanted to do. I didn't know the area or what fun things there were to do there so I just asked, what do you want to do?

Well, I would almost always get this response.  Whatever you what to do. Or as some say, supt to you.

I knew this was the wrong way to approach her about what we should do but I didn't have any options because I didn't know what there was to do. LOL And I wanted her to have a good time.

I finally sat her down and said. Almost verbatim, I am not a Filipino man, I value your opinion, so tell me some of the things you might want to do. I already know what I want to do, I want to know what you want to do. Then I will decide what we are going to do. Then I decided what we did.

This worked. But I waited until over a week into my trip to do this. So it was a little weird at first because she really did expect and want me to make the decisions without input from her.

She was much more relaxed when I took charge. In the beginning she held my hand and I walked beside her or behind her because I didn't know where we were going so I let her lead. But I soon found that I needed to lead her, even if I didn't know where we were going, if I went to far she would stop me, but I was in front. So I would hold her hand a walk through the traffic like I knew were I was going and what I was doing. We went faster this way as people wouldn't crowd us as much as when she was in front.

I am sure she felt more secure when I did this also.

Now we are discussing our future life together as we consider ourselves engaged even though I haven't officially popped the question yet. I know what she wants because of how I asked her and I have also listened to her. So I have made my decisions based on that but also on what our future goals are. Now that I have shown her leadership, she is willing to follow me and she tells me that she will do as I wish and that she trusts my judgment 100%

The reason I am telling you all this is that I want you all who are still searching to know how important it is to lead and not follow, I saw first hand how she started to take over when I didn't lead. She didn't like that role and I could tell. I finally just made up my mind that I was the man and she would follow me or that was that. She responded by loving me even more. Filipinas really do want you to lead.

I do explain why I am choosing a certain path for us because I also feel that it is important that we pull together and that is hard to do when one of you doesn't know why you are pulling in a certain direction. But in the end, we are going to follow the path that I feel will lead us to our goals.

Sorry for the long rant, but I hope it helps at least one of ya all. LOL

[Bob_S]

On my recent trip to the philippines I made the mistake of always asking my girl what she wanted to do. I didn't know the area or what fun things there were to do there so I just asked, what do you want to do?

Well, I would almost always get this response.  Whatever you what to do. Or as some say, supt to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGTWmrnPdgk

 

[piglett]

cbear have you ever seen a dogsled ?
all the dogs are in pairs except for the dog in front, the front one is the lead dog.
he decides which direction to go & sets the pace & the others follow.
so i guess it's the same way with pinays, you have to get out front & lead
I am guessing this is because how they are raised ??
As long as you have no problem with being the lead dog i don't see a problem with it

My girl has started to ask me "can i do this" "can i do that"
i think it is all rather funny & i just play along & say well sure you can...  he he he

piglett

[Cbear]

so true piglett, my girl just sent me a message asking if she could drink and go out tonight with her friends. I know she doesn't drink much so I told her yes.

Other times I have told her no. She accepts it. She doesn't want to live here in America but to achieve the goals we have set she needs to. So when she asked if she could accept a job there (23,000php per month, which is huge pay for PI) I told her no. She said "ok"

She still talks about it so I know she wants the job (nursing instructor after graduation) but she says she will do as I wish and she trusts me.

My ex would have gone crazy if I would have told her no.

[satori]

It's funny, but all my firends tell me that's what you need to do when dating AW and deep down inside that's what they want.  Problem is, when you do that with an AW, even if done in a subtle manner, they get even nastier than they usual.  AW resist anything that is tradtional.  Traditions evolved for a reason and while the reasons for some have disappeared, many others are still valid.  Usually, IMHO, they just follow a natural order and therefore everything else works better.  Congratulations on finding your girl.  Sounds like things are headed in the right direction.  Good luck.

[Heruamen]

I too discovered much to my delight that my girl seems to ask my permission before doing certain things and she told me upfront that she wanted and needed my guidance on being the best wife possible.  I have never experienced this to any degree in my relations with African American women.  I certainly dont have a problem taking the lead.

[Cbear]

I know there are good African American women out there cause I have met them, but they get taken quickly by guys who recognize the good qualities. Also good white women too, but the same applies.

There is just nothing out there for us older guys in America, we are left with the bitter old women who have so many men notched on their belt it makes you sick. So our only real chance at successfully finding a life long mate who will pull with us instead of against us is to look over seas.

I know it is possible that someone might luck into a good woman stateside but there just aren't enough good ones to go around.

[Ray]

Guys, guys, guys…

It’s not so much that these young ladies are asking for your permission, but more that they are seeking your approval and support. They want to get along and want you to support them in their decisions, not make all of their life decisions for them.

Remember that this isn’t all about you. Don’t forget her hopes and dreams too! When she is offered a good job with good pay over there, it would be foolish for most any young Filipina lady to turn it down. Good jobs are very hard to come by. And don’t forget that a Filipino has an obligation to his/her parents that may require them to provide some financial support to them in their later years. That’s largely why Filipino families will sacrifice everything to provide the opportunity for their children to get a good education.

Cbear, why are you denying her the chance to accept a good job? What authority do you hold over an 18-year old living with her parents? Shouldn’t she be asking her parents for advice? That just sounded so controlling of you to tell her not to take the job. What happens if your plans should fall through and she is left hanging with no job because you told her not to accept the position?

Or did I miss something here? Are you officially engaged to be married, with her parent’s permission? Are you supporting her and her family financially? I thought you were going to wait for a few years before you got engaged (?).

Until she has that visa, arrives here and is married, she should still be thinking of herself and her future in the event that things don’t work out.

Ray
 

[Cbear]

Ray

I guess I need to clarify, the job she wants isn't available to her until after she graduates in 2 years. She doesn't really want to move to the US, she wants me to move there but we all know how hard it is for a kano to make it there without a boatload of cash.

Yes we are engaged, but don't have a date set. I am not supporting her yet. I have offered and been refused. I have given her money to accomplish a few tasks like get a DL and passport and open a bank account.

If by some strange chance we don't make it, she could still take that job. She doesn't need to accept it now since the opening isnt until 2011.

She doesn't have any family to support, her brother has a good job, her mother has a good job, most of her family already lives in America or Australia.

I think what it is ,is that she isnt ready to leave her friends. But after they all graduate they will move away anyway.

I am making the best decision for us as a couple, if she doesnt like that decision she doesn't have to follow me, but that would be the end of the relationship.

[Dave H]

Guys, guys, guys…

It’s not so much that these young ladies are asking for your permission, but more that they are seeking your approval and support. They want to get along and want you to support them in their decisions, not make all of their life decisions for them.

Ray

Thanks Ray,

I was starting to think that I was the only guy not leading his carabao...I mean Filipina... around by her nose ring!  My wife is mature and knows what is best for me, us, and the family, without any input from me...not that I don't nod my head and utter an opinion (usually the same as hers) for appearance sake now and then. 

Dave

[Ray]

Now you’ve really got me confused cbear. If the job isn’t until 2011, why is she asking you if she can accept the position now and why would you even say no?? Why not agree to discuss it when and if the time comes?
 
You say that you are making the best decision for you as a couple…but you aren’t a couple yet. If she really wants to accept the job as you say, and she doesn’t want to leave the Philippines, perhaps you should seriously consider postponing this engagement until you both come to an agreement on some of these major decisions.

…if she doesnt like that decision she doesn't have to follow me, but that would be the end of the relationship.

It sounds more like you are making all the big decisions for her not based on what is best for her, but what is best for you. You sound like you are ignoring her life dreams and desires. Are you going to be a supporting and caring husband, or do you want to be a controlling parent figure to a teenager who is too immature to make her own decisions?? Think about it…

And when I said that Filipino children have a life obligation to provide support to their parents, that was meant to be when they are older and no longer working. That is traditional Filipino social security, hence why her parents are sacrificing to provide for her education now. It's called Untong Na Loob.

Ray

[Ray]

Dave,

No nose-rings in this household either. 

My wife is perfectly capable of making her own decisions in life without my controlling dominance over her. When we disagree on things, we discuss it and usually compromise. If I were to order her to do what I wish or the relationship would be over, then yes, it would be over alright… LOL!

I think a lot of these newbies to Filipino culture misinterpret the ladies’ desire to get along and seek approval and support as some kind of insecurity where they want the man to make ALL of the decisions for them. Sayang…

Ray

[Cbear]

I'm not a newbie to Filipino culture, I lived there in the 80's.

Our goal (my lady and I) are the same, we have decided that in 10 or 12 years we will return to the Philippines and she will no longer work but be a stay at home mom. This is her real dream, she has put the responsibility of making that happen to me.

The reason I said no to the job even though it isn't for 2 years is a bit complicated, the position is for a staff instructor at the university she attends now. The pay is high because the position requires that the person have passed their boards. Most if not all of the students who pass the boards are going overseas to work because the pay is much better. The staff instructor job pays about 700USD per month but a nurse in Saudi makes 1200USD per month. So the school recruits the smart students before they start their duty cycles.

Now without going into all the details, I just don't want the pressure on her about it.

We are a couple now, just because we haven't said I do yet doesn't mean we aren't committed to each other. We are engaged but probably wont tie the knot for some time. The wedding is going to be in PI because that is where she wants to get married, I would prefer to do it here, but it is important to her so we will do it there. So whos leading who by the nose ring? LOL.

Her mother does not pay for her school, her father is dead. Her aunt and uncle in the US pay for her school, Her aunt and uncle in PI support her room and board, I have offered to cover everything but they won't allow it.

I understand about taking care of the family, her mother will most likely live with us when we move back to PI. Her mother has no wish to come to America. None at all. Don't ask me why cause I don't know. She only has one brother who has a very good job. There is no one in the pipeline that she will need to support for an education, but if someone appears we will probably help.


I will affirm that if she were to take that job, knowing it isn't in our combined best interest then yes, the relationship would be over, And it should. To achieve the goals we have set together, this does not help us at all.

To give you the short version of our goals.

We live off my income. We bank nearly all of her income. She will be an RN when she arrives but she will start classes to get her masters as soon as she gets here. The field of specialty she has chosen pays an average wage of 95K USD per year here. So after 3 or 4 years she should be at that level. Assume 5 years  at 95K and 5 years at 60K. That gives us our goal of 500K Plus a paid for house. Then back to PI to live happily ever after. She can raise the kids and stay at home while I manage whatever small business we decide to get into. Probably rental property.

[Jeff S]

My wife is perfectly capable of making her own decisions in life without my controlling dominance over her. When we disagree on things, we discuss it and usually compromise. If I were to order her to do what I wish or the relationship would be over, then yes, it would be over alright… LOL!

Sounds like my household too.

- Jeff

[Ray]

Cbear, listen to yourself. You’re controlling this young lady’s life while there is no commitment on your part until you are married. No, you are not a couple yet!

You aren’t committed because you keep making ultimatums for her to comply or you will dump her. You still have the option to change your mind anytime up until she has a visa and is married and agrees to your terms for the future.

If you do change your mind or dump her for not following your wishes, or because you don’t make her bleed on your wedding night, or for whatever reason, then that leaves her up a creek with no job and broken dreams. Do you think that’s fair? Are you REALLY listening to her or are you just dictating to her?

First you say she doesn’t want to leave the Philippines and she really wants that job. Then you tell us that “our goal(s) are the same”. It doesn’t sound like the same goals the way you described it. It sounds like YOUR goals and she better follow along or she’s history. Now doesn’t that sound just a bit controlling to you??

With all due respect, may I suggest that you really take the time to study the Filipino culture. Regardless of the fact that you have been in Angeles City before, I think there is a lot you need to learn.

Peace,

Ray

[Cbear]

I talk to her several hours each day. I think I know her better than you do.

We are a couple, no relationship is unconditional. I am sure if I did something stupid like cheat on her she would dump me in a heart beat. Then I would be crushed. But it would be my own fault. If she caught me lying, I am sure I would be gone. This works both ways.

Yes, she really wants the job, but she also really wants to be a stay at home mom, many people have wants that don't coincide with each other. Her primary desire is to be a stay at home mom. Since I'm not rich and she has chosen me then we have to work towards that goal.

I won't dump her without reason, as for being a virgin, I am sure she is. She is incredibly shy, no way she isn't one. As for following my lead, if she doesn't then she isn't meant for me. If I wanted a liberated woman I would find me another AW. I want a conservative lady, she is very conservative.

She isn't poor, she isn't a province girl, remember, she has gone to private schools her entire life and is now in a private university, one of the most expensive in PI. She has lots of Filipino men chasing her, some very gwapo and rich from what her friends tell me. So she isn't with me because she needs to be, she is with me because she wants to be. I have all her passwords from the sights she uses (as does she mine) and I see how many men have tried to communicate with her. She still gets messages everyday on these. She never responds. She does love me, we just click with each other.

I will invite you to the wedding Ray when ever it is, and you will see what I mean. She is the most loving, sweetest, nicest lady I have ever met. I would do just about anything for her.

[stevjulietb]

Cbear, not wanting to cause any problems, I have read Rays posts for 8 years, He is sort of the O B wan here, use the force Cbear

Steveb

[Dave H]

She isn't poor, she isn't a province girl, remember, she has gone to private schools her entire life and is now in a private university, one of the most expensive in PI.

All this talk about the poor, provinces and province girls! What's wrong with the provines and it's women or with women who are poor...other than the pure tsismis BS coming out of the mouths of non-promdie ‘s o c i a l' women! I can assure you that most people live much better lives in the Provinces than in Manila or QC. If I want to go to a large city, I much prefer Davao and Cebu, which are more modern, less crowded, better planned cities. Over 1000 people would live on our provincial lot if it were located in Manila or QC.  I am currently planning to buy a white sand, beachfront lot in the provinces to build a future home on. I suppose you could probably see a ship in Manila Bay from a high rise condo in Makati with a good view.  Everyone has their personal preferences...   

My wife and her 5 siblings also all went to private schools through university (in the so called "provinces")...all paid for by their parents...not uncommon in the Philippines.

Dave

Makati Metro Manila


Bohol (provinces)


 

[Cbear]

Dave, I meant no offense. I have nothing against girls from the province. I am just pointing out that my girl isn't poor and using me to get out of a bad economic situation. I guess I should have chosen my words better.

[Ray]

She is the most loving, sweetest, nicest lady I have ever met. I would do just about anything for her.

Just about anything except let her accept a job that she “really wants” or honor her wishes to stay in the Philippines.

Cbear, I believe you when you say she is the most loving, sweetest, nicest lady you have ever met and I never doubted that one bit. The only reason that I am bringing up some of the points that I am is because I would hate to see someone take advantage of one of those sweet, innocent, nice young ladies.

I’m not saying that you are trying to take advantage of her, but I have seen this scenario many times before where guys misinterpret the cultural behaviors of these young Filipina girls and come to the misguided conclusion that they want to be led around like an immature teenager instead of a wife and equal partner. That easily extracted cooperation that some guys see can too often be interpreted as a sign of submission or a lack of self-confidence. Then the guy takes complete control over her life thinking that is what she surely must want.

Just from some of your comments here, you seem to be somewhat of a controlling guy, not that there is anything inherently wrong with that, but for her sake, please stop and really listen to her when she tells you of her wants and desires. I mean REALLY listen, not the type of conversations where you convince her to think your way or agree to your terms on mutual goals and desires. Keep in mind that these young ladies often do not readily express their true feelings because they don't want to offend you or openly disagree with you.

When she tells you that she REALLY WANTS that job, take her seriously and don’t try to talk her out of it with what you see as logic and reason. Encourage her to express her personal desires and don’t dismiss them offhand because they don’t mesh with your own personal goals.

If she is not REALLY on board with your plans for the future, then perhaps she isn’t for you. I’m not saying you should break up with her, but I think you need to slow down and let this relationship play out as you had apparently initially intended to do. You're already planning out her whole life for her and you haven't even proposed yet. Now she is checking in with you before she goes out with her friends? Come on cbear, give her a chance to finish her schooling and mature a little before you talk too seriously about engagements and marriage. If she turns out to be a good match for you, and vice-versa, then go ahead with plans for the future. But by all means give her a little breathing room to really think out what SHE wants for HER future, not just YOURS.

I hope you take all this advice as sincere and well intentioned as it was meant to be. I'm only relaying some of the mistakes other guys that I've known have made. If I didn’t care, then I wouldn’t bother.

If I’m planning to be in the Phils when your wedding date comes up, then yes, I may just take you up on that invitation. Can I be a sponsor? I can do Candle Sponsor, Cord Sponsor, Veil Sponsor, but not flower girl … 

Ray

[Bear]

Hmmm.  Cbear its sounds awful familar.  Are you sure you didn't read the achieves and put you own spin on my trip reports?

I think you've found a girl who is looking for what Filipinas call the "simple life".  They pretty much want a life of few decisions but lots of benefits and security.  It's really putting a lot of responsibilty on you to make decisions, especially since many Filipinas act as if its wrong to share their opinion with you - like its in some way disrespecful.  Where Ray and Dave are correct the decisions you're making are pretty much controlling and the girl she is acting as if she wants it that way.  Make sure that she realizes every opportunity she would have if she never met you, like finishing her degree.

The Bear Family

[Cbear]

Bear, she will finish her degree with me and even get her masters if she wants to continue once she gets here.

She does share her opinions with me now, it took a while to get her to open up but now the floodgates are open, she has no trouble telling me what she wants.

I sent you a pm.

[Ray]

Bear,

That’s not my interpretation of what Filipinos mean by the “simple life”.

From my experience, a Filipino’s idea of a “simple life” is one without all the stress of big city life.

The simple life means a non-materialistic existence, without a lot of technology or modern conveniences, where simple pleasures are appreciated in a more stress-free environment.

The simple life might be working a small farm or perhaps fishing for a living in a rural or small town environment.

The simple life revolves around the extended family where everyone pulls together as a unit to survive with few of the modern pleasures that big city life provides.

Reliance on Mother Nature and appreciating the pleasures she provides is part of the simple life.

The simple life is really just what the name implies, basic and uncomplicated.

My wife sometimes refers to the “simple life” back in the province where she grew up and how it has advantages over the stressful rat race here in the States, or when she lived and worked in Manila.

I have never heard Filipinos refer to the “simple life” as one where someone else makes all the decisions for you, but of course your experiences are different from mine.

Maybe some of the Filipino members or some of the others will chime in with their thoughts? Dave, didn’t you move back there to enjoy the “simple life” in the province?

Ray

[Bear]

I'm not sure when this topic was discussed before but I know I've posted on it several times.  I even remember back when we had several Filpinas posting here that several complimented me for understanding the "simple life" concept.  I'm not saying in any way that this is a general or generic trait of Filipinas but that so many appear to emulate it.  Of course, I've seen others who don't, but mostly they do.  I've had very similar events with my wife were I failed to "lead" and her attitude changed very quickly.  You could see tremendous pressure in her eyes and her actions became very "bossy" and dictatorial.  But when I'd chime back in the tenseness of the situation calmed back down she relaxed and moved on to other things.  She wants me to take charge, just that I'd better do it her way or be right in my decisions, else I get the dreaded "tampo".

In American terms this would be so chauvinistic and controlling and I actually have a difficult time doing it; I just was raised that way - I was raised to listen to my wife's opinions and do it her way (by my Mom of course).  With Honey I have to drag it out of her cause she would just rather I deal with it and she is fine with accepting my decisions.  It could also have something to do with the type of girl I've married and CBear is dating, both are quite younger that us and could subconsciously be wanting more of a "father figure" to protect them and make their life more secure, a "simple life".

Seems I remember this topic coming up about six months to a year ago because I went to a get-together at a Filipina's house and I asked them as a group about several topics including whether or not men should be virgins and how men are supposed to act in family situations, a few others questions I didn't write it down but (I did post on it).  So many Filipinas seem more than anything want to be secure.  It seems to be a driving factor in relationships, ignoring things AWs want like age, youth, money, looks, etc.  Its one of the reasons I say AMs are the "prize" because most Filipinas think AMs will be more than acceptable as husbands, being considerate of their opinions and needs, so they look for a AM ignoring things most AWs put first (like age, hair, weight, etc).

"Simple life" also seems to indicate security, not just someone to make decisions.  I don't disagree at all with your view, it seems the most natural way, just its not been my experience with Filipinas.  They want someone to take charge and not be a wimp.

The Bear Family

[Ray]

Bear,

I was not disputing the fact these ladies don't want a wimpy husband, or that some Filipina ladies want their husband to make all the decisions.

I was only disputing your interpretation of the meaning of the term "simple life" to describe those women and their way of thinking.

I wouldn't want a new guy here to meet a Filipina lady who says she is "simple" or enjoys a "simple life" and automatically assume that she meant that she wants a man to make all of the decisions in her life.

Now on the subject of the role of the man in the typical Filipino family. Don’t be fooled by outward appearances. For anyone looking in, the perception is that the man is in charge and makes all the important decisions while the wife does not openly disagree or dispute his authority.

However, under the surface, I think it’s typical that the wife plays a much bigger role in decision making than is apparent to the untrained eye. Typically, the wife takes charge of the family finances and plays a key role in making important decisions. I think you recognized that when you said that your wife wants you to make the decisions as long as they agree with her opinions. It’s typically a team effort but with the man’s authority never being publicly disputed.

Also, keep in mind that Filipino men can lead a “simple life”. The term “simple” or “simple life” is not gender specific and is not just a female trait.

By the way, when a Filipino husband is wimpy and easily controlled by his wife, or what we may refer to as PW’d, a term used to describe that is “under the saya” (or under the skirt).

Ray