Anyone want to roll the dice?

[Bob_S]

My wife's sister has married three foreign men and two local men, and has divorced all five. Her odds are 0%.

Sounds to me like #3 was taking a risk, #4 was taking a big risk, and #5 was just a damn fool.   
Any #6 on the scene?

[jm21-2]

jm,

Just look at it this way, you will be able to give her something that no Chinese man ever can - more than 1 child. I have found this to be a HUGE plus and one which many many Chinese women would be willing to give up some of the benefits of living in China. Even though you feel that your girl may be middle or upper class by Chinese standards I think that you will be surprised with what you can provide her. What is considered to be a Big house/apartment in China usually compares in size to a very modest American home - with the construction quality generally not being nearly as good.

I too live in a rural area (I telecommute) however my Chinese fiancee is more than willing to leave behind an exciting life in a big city and a great job in exchange for starting a family with someone who she trusts and can count on.     

It seems like there are ways around the 1 child policy...her sister lives in a huge house (about 7,000sqft from what I remember) and wants 3 kids...she wants 2-3 kids...she thinks a boy's parents should buy him a house (or help him out buying it in a major way) when he gets married. I showed her some pictures from my area a few times and she was surprised they were "small" and only one story. But, she was very surprised at the big yards we have here. I had sent her a picture taken at my parent's house and she was amazed at the huge garden.

Anyways, this is getting a little off topic and not really Latin, haha. I'm far more worried about travel expenses and vacation time at this point. She sounds like she'd do a lot for the right guy, so we'll see.

[Jeff S]

Sounds to me like #3 was taking a risk, #4 was taking a big risk, and #5 was just a damn fool.   
Any #6 on the scene?

Anyone in-mind you want revenge on? I'll be happy to set them up.

[Researcher]

There have been some good posts so far in this thread.Finding
 someone that shares the same level of commitment, using an honest
 straight forward approach and taking the time to find the right one is
 good solid advice.Kind of like how red flags and green flags are
 mentioned here a lot.They are the do's and don't's passed on by
 experienced guys. Now, don't get me wrong, I like the idea of red
 flags and green flags because this is a way to give guys ideas of
 what to look out for. But what about the yellow flags or pink flags?
 The grey areas that exist in life.And also, what is a guy supposed to
 do when red flags appear? I am usually one of the first to say "kick
 'em to the curb" but it isn't always that easy and things aren't always
 that cut and dry.
         That's why I think that risk is a good way to look at it. Its great
 if you find someone with the commitment to make a marriage work
 but do you get to know them to make sure they honor commitments
 and are serious or do you just take their word for it and jump right
 in? I would do my best to get to know a woman better because it
 reduces the risk of ending up with someone who just lied about
 being committed to the relationship. That’s where the risk is and
 that is my point. There are things you can do to reduce the risk of
 ending up in a bad relationship, like getting to know them and not
 rushing into anything. Of course, speaking their language(or them
 speaking your language) is a big help there.
         And what if you have many green flags but only a few red flags?
 A decision to continue the relationship has to be made at some point.
 This is where looking at risk helped me. I didn’t move forward with a
 relationship unless I felt comfortable in doing so. In other words was I
 comfortable with the level of risk involved? If I wasn’t, then I had to   
 look at ways to reduce the risks or end the relationship and move on.
 The choices I made had to do with how much risk I was willing to   
 tolerate. 
          Some guys ignore red flags and take the risk hoping that everything
 will work out. Sometimes it does but many times it doesn’t.Some guys are
 risk takers and, like the Kennedys, it catches up to them.
          But guys who met their lady, decided she was the one and asked
her to marry them within a week, and made it past the 5 year mark, IMHO,
had a horseshoe up their arse. Now, I could be wrong on this part. Maybe
someone knows the secret to doing this.If that’s the case then please start
a thread and title it:How to find and marry the woman of your dreams in 7 days
or less. A lot of guys on this board, I’m pretty sure, would like to know this info.


 Researcher     
 

[Bear]

I don't believe in risk.  Thats why I went Asian.  There are too many things in life you can't count on, your wife shouldn't be one.

The Bear Family

[william3rd]

You dont find them in seven days or less. Your changes of failure are very very high. Seven day wonders are big red flags by themselves. A relationship is a work in progress. 

[Researcher]

You dont find them in seven days or less. Your changes of failure are very very high. Seven day wonders are big red flags by themselves. A relationship is a work in progress. 

          I agree William. Instead of "Seven day wonders" we used to call them "One hit wonders" because they made one visit, met one woman, proposed in one week and one day was left wonder-ing what happened.

    Researcher

[Researcher]

I don't believe in risk.  Thats why I went Asian.  There are too many things in life you can't count on, your wife shouldn't be one.

The Bear Family

              Everyone has their own opinion but from my experiences the race of a woman really doesn't have alot to do with it.

             Being a religious man I'm sure you live by faith but I'm sure you also know that just because you want something or ask God for it doesn't mean that you will get it.So when you do ask for something your taking the risk that you might not get it.

   Researcher

              Researcher

[Bear]

Not really.  If you ask and wait till you know there is no risk.  But if if you ask and proceed without answer then you're a stupid and deserve the ulcers you will get.  When I asked I KNEW she was the right one because I asked a real simple way to know.  I asked that I would marry the first girl who sang me a song.  Honey was singing me a song 15 minutes later.  How more clear can he answer.

The Bear Family

[Researcher]

Not really.  If you ask and wait till you know there is no risk.  But if if you ask and proceed without answer then you're a stupid and deserve the ulcers you will get.  When I asked I KNEW she was the right one because I asked a real simple way to know.  I asked that I would marry the first girl who sang me a song.  Honey was singing me a song 15 minutes later.  How more clear can he answer.

The Bear Family

       And you would recommend this to every guy out there looking? Did you guys wait long after that before you were married?

    Researcher

[Bear]

Yes, I recommend prayer/fasting to everyone.  Its easy to understand.  If I am confused after praying then I know thats a "no".  If I feel pretty confidant and no new questions are popping into my mind that I believe that to be a "yes".  I do all the work and research and then when I can't do anymore and/ or come to a conclusion then I pray about my decision.  It doesn't mean that nothing ever go wrong but it means I'm on the path HF wants me to be on.  When fasting I usually ask for a simple sign like when I fasted and prayed about Honey she was doing the same about me (but neither of us knew the other was doing it).  She asked to see a red rose (uncommon in the Philippines) and saw a girl with two dozen and the girl gave her one!  She was so happy when I called her a few minutes later she asked if she could sing me a song!

We were married 3 days short of 6 months after that fast.  And everytime something comes up I remember how strong an answer I got and the problem goes away.  I am without a doubt married to who my Heavenly Father wants me to be married to.  No risk and confidence I feel is very comforting.

The Bear Family

[raycjs]

Researcher

Great post and i think you are getting some great answers. I do not have to tell you what i did right or wrong just read my post..... But the next time i will do things different. no matter how much time or money i have put in it. If she is not the one then i will move on. But time is very important more then speaking the same language.


Ray

[Bear]

I still don't see this as risk.  There are problems and situations that come up in all aspects of life.  If you change your "attitude" and look at these events/situations as opportunities to learn and grow then it changes the "hurt" to "experience".  Risk indicates no choice, but we are in complete control of our lives.  Doesn't mean its going to go our way just that we are here for a reason and the best way to get through it is learn what we need to know and move on.  Its like McCain when he was a prisoner of war, they controlled his freedom but not how he thought so he recited things that they couldn't control so they couldn't enslave his mind.  He hurt but he won and is a better man for it.

Picking a wife with what I learned in my first marriage and by listening to others that posted here (and on other boards) made it one of the easiest/best choices/decisions I ever made.  Now having three little boys!!!  Not risk but a heck of a lot of work.

The Bear Family

[Researcher]

            Bear,
               What I am getting to is that risk indicates what we don't have control over. We do have control of the choices we make but little else. You are very lucky(I guess I should say blessed) to have such a beautiful family. I remember reading how you and Honey met and you waited 6 months.I bet within that time you got to know each other better. Some guys don't wait that long and some guys don't use the brain that God gave them. After reading your posts, I would say that you did.

Researcher

[Researcher]

Researcher

Great post and i think you are getting some great answers. I do not have to tell you what i did right or wrong just read my post..... But the next time i will do things different. no matter how much time or money i have put in it. If she is not the one then i will move on. But time is very important more then speaking the same language.


Ray

     Ray,
        Many of us have made mistakes. I know I did and I learned from them.This board would have helped me out alot when I got started. I'm just trying to pass on some of the things that helped me.The thread you started earlier got me thinking that we discuss the things women do but we really don't look much at what we guys do when it comes to international dating and marriage.
 
Researcher

[Researcher]

 I believe in risk because we are free willed beings with the ability to make our own choices. Often times these choices involve risks, like with international dating. I’ve seen guys choose a woman to marry as if they were picking out a puppy to take home. You could call these guys stupid but some of them knew exactly what they were doing and accepted the risk. They even had divorce factored into their decision as if they were expecting it to happen for certain. Now, that was not the kind of thing I was looking for but it does happen.
         I also saw guys that bought into the agency hype. Often times these guys had never travelled outside the US and had the impression that all foreign women made good wives simply because they had not been indoctrinated with the feminist view of what marriage is supposed to be. They dive right in without taking the time to check things out and learning what risks are involved.
        Then I have seen guys go to another country with the intention of finding a good woman. These intentions go out the window when they hit foreign soil and actually experience getting a lot of attention from young attractive single women. They were fully aware of the risks involved but that changed when they became like a kid in a candy store. They begin to think that maybe all those women are genuinely interested in them and wouldn’t lie about it. (and maybe there is a Santa Clause, right?).
         When you spend the amount of time that I did in agencies and networking with other guys interested in finding a foreign wife you see many types of situations. The ones I have mentioned are enough, I hope, to illustrate my point. It all comes down to understanding the risks involved with international dating and choosing how much risk you are comfortable with. To say that there is no such thing as risk is to say that everything in life is guaranteed. It isn't. To say that risk indicates you have no choice is incorrect.You do have choice in some things, its the things we don't have control over(and no choice in) that can make things risky.
          A couple of guys I know did rush into marriage and are still married to the same women but most guys I know that did have success took their time and got to know their future wives to make sure they were compatable.The guys that rushed admit that they were taking a big gamble and that they are lucky it worked out.I asked one of the guys if he thought it worked because he and his wife were both committed to making it work. He told me that he thought that was part of it but if he and his wife had ended up hating each other then they would have both been committed to a life of misery. I guess its a good thing they ended up loving each other.

  Researcher 
                   

[utopiacowboy]

Why is that guys say that so-and-so was lucky? Luck had nothing to do with it. I can relate to Bear's story because my wife and I both feel that we were destined for each other. When her husband was dying in her arms and he knew that he was dying, he told her that he would find someone for her. I believe that I was the one he found for her and I had sense enough to listen.

[Researcher]

Why is that guys say that so-and-so was lucky? Luck had nothing to do with it. I can relate to Bear's story because my wife and I both feel that we were destined for each other. When her husband was dying in her arms and he knew that he was dying, he told her that he would find someone for her. I believe that I was the one he found for her and I had sense enough to listen.

      So you believe in fate?  If everything depends on destiny why not just marry the first woman you see?

     Fate indicates no choice. And while things worked out well for you guys it doesn't mean that it will for others. That's why I am writing about something that is based on exeriences of alot of other guys, not just one or two. If your situation had not worked out would you take a look at it and try to learn from your mistakes or would you say it was just "fate" and keep doing the same thing over and over until fate allowed it to work out.


    Researcher

[utopiacowboy]

      So you believe in fate?  If everything depends on destiny why not just marry the first woman you see?

     Fate indicates no choice. And while things worked out well for you guys it doesn't mean that it will for others. That's why I am writing about something that is based on exeriences of alot of other guys, not just one or two. If your situation had not worked out would you take a look at it and try to learn from your mistakes or would you say it was just "fate" and keep doing the same thing over and over until fate allowed it to work out.


    Researcher

I had a choice. I could have ignored the voice of a higher power or I could have listened. I had a lot of reasons for not listening, she lived in Colombia, she didn't speak English, I didn't speak Spanish, she had three kids etc etc. Nevertheless I chose to listen.

[Bob_S]

Anyone in-mind you want revenge on? I'll be happy to set them up.

Maybe some guys in serious need of a painful life lesson.

But at the moment, my nakodo duties involve looking for single employed guys in their mid-twenties to early-thirties to match up a couple of cute 25-y.o. husband hunting J-girls who asked me if I knew any single engineers at my office.  They've reached a stage in their life where they are tired of "playahs" and definitely don't want to settle down with traditional J-husbands.  They've spent enough time in the U.S. and Canada to see how Western men treat their wives and they want something like that too.

[jm21-2]

Maybe some guys in serious need of a painful life lesson.

But at the moment, my nakodo duties involve looking for single employed guys in their mid-twenties to early-thirties to match up a couple of cute 25-y.o. husband hunting J-girls who asked me if I knew any single engineers at my office.  They've reached a stage in their life where they are tired of "playahs" and definitely don't want to settle down with traditional J-husbands.  They've spent enough time in the U.S. and Canada to see how Western men treat their wives and they want something like that too.

I imagine in the American male demographic you speak of there are plenty of single marriage-minded guys who enjoy Japanese culture.

[Bob_S]

I imagine in the American male demographic you speak of there are plenty of single marriage-minded guys who enjoy Japanese culture.

You would think, but it turns out not to be so true, at least not for my location.  The weird combination of casualness and viciousness of the L.A. dating scene kinda ruins guys for serious committed relationships.  I'm surrounded by a lot of guys who are good men and would make good husbands and/or fathers but have long since given up the idea of getting married. 

[Researcher]

 One thing I need to explain is that while I think there are risks involved with International Dating I don’t have an all or nothing view of it. In other words, I’m not saying that it is just a huge gamble and there is nothing that can be done to make it less of a gamble. What I am saying is that the choices we make can determine the amount of risk involved, to a degree. I also believe there are some things we have no way of knowing and things we have no control over that are risk factors we can’t do anything about.
         Another thing I need to explain is that I am not saying if you marry the first woman you meet then it is a risky situation. The first woman you meet may very well be “the one” but if you marry her within a week without getting to know her, then it is risky.
          I mentioned in an earlier post that there are things that can be done to reduce the amount of risk involved. Just to illustrate I am going to describe what I did to accomplish this.
          One of the biggest questions most guys have when they start out is: Where do I look? I chose Colombia for a few reasons.One of which was location. I knew that I could drive to Atlanta and be in Bogota within 4 ½ to 5 hours meaning that I could use vacation time and holiday time to make many visits throughout the year. After trying the Philippines I knew what a disadvantage the distance could be and could not have done this. If I lived on the west coast, I might have chosen differently. Anyway,the more visits I could make, the more time I could actually spend with a woman to get to know her better. The internet and telephone are good ways to stay in touch but I prefer “face time” when it comes to getting to know someone. 
          I know that some may not agree and say that using the web and telephone are good ways to get to know someone and that’s fine if you are comfortable with it.  Although I did get to know some things about a woman this way I didn’t rely on it completely.For me, it just seemed too risky.
           Some may say that just because you spend time with someone doesn’t mean that you can get to know them. If the time you spend with them is on vacation, how much can you really learn about a person? That’s why I planned different activities that involved the woman’s friends and family when I visited.
            It’s been mentioned before that you can learn a lot about someone by getting to know their family and I agree. But I have also believe that you can learn a lot about someone by getting to know their friends because these are the people they choose to be around.Also, most people seem to relax more around their friends and you can see their real personalities. And yes, I know that some people
are more pretentious around their friends, but this also shows you something about them.
            I’m not knocking anyone for how they live or how they went about finding their wife. If someone wants to marry someone they barely know in hopes that things will just work out somehow, I don’t have a problem with it. But when it comes to being tied to another person legally, financially and emotionally does “Anyone want to roll the dice?”…..I know I don’t.


       Researcher
         
         

[David]

I've seen so many guys rush into a relationship thinking that they will get to know a woman while the visa is being processed. Then by the time the visa is approved they feel like they are"invested" in the relationship and decide to proceed even when they see many red flags.I know this feeling because I have been there myself. I walked away from a fiance even after the visa was approved.Now, I ended it before she
came to the US but it wasn't an easy decision to make.

I haven't got a lot of time right now to read all the responses, but I wanted to say that I think Researcher has got a heck of a good thread and post started here. In reference to the above quote, I would like to say that I too was in the situation and had to walk away as well. Literally had the K-1 all set and ready to go, etc. It sucks, but if I hadn't been through that I might not know how bad that relationship really was, or how good the relationship I'm about to kick off is about to be.

Everything is a risk. Risk and Odds are two brothers fighting over the same ball. Everything is a gamble. So no Risk, no reward, but how you roll those dice and take that gamble depends on the fishing hole you dip your pole in. I'd rather be the big fish in a small pond, than the small fish in a big pond. So take the chance, roll the dice, you've got everything to gain, and what did you lose? Your dignity? Your self-respect? Please! You've got 100 years on this planet and in 5000 years, or even tomorrow who is going to give 2 snorts short of a hoot what others think of you, 'cause we'll all be dead anyway! So you might as well take advantage of the time, put the pennies on the line, and get happy with someone who makes you happy and vic-versa!