Is it ethical to spy on your Novia?

[utopiacowboy]

Where is Calipro when you need him? He has some particularly apt comments regarding online "girlfriends".

[sabound]

If you meet a girl on the web then she would be your DREAM girl , not girl friend !

LET all the rookies send money , you only have to learn the hard way a few times then it will sink in usually .

Colombia has to be the worst in this asking for money , I wonder how it is in Russia ? 

[Researcher]

Colombia has to be the worst in this asking for money , I wonder how it is in Russia ? 

 SA, Ever been to the Philippines? it has Colombia beat, hands down IMO.

[Quixote9]

I would just like to respond to those posting that you should never send money to a woman you have never met.  My opinion is that you should never send any money AT ALL.  Not even if she tells you her grandmother's hair is on fire and she needs you to send $5 so she can buy a bucket of water to put it out!  Not even if she says she can't believe you don't trust her enough to send money and starts to cry. Not even if she starts talking about all the other guys who want to date her and tell her that her boyfriend is too stingy and how they would treat her like a princess if she were their girlfriend.  Not even if you do trust her and love her and think she is an excellent person.   Even a modest amount of money represents a huge temptation for women who have nothing.  They might feel that their immediate wants and needs (and those of their family) are far more important to them than hurting the feelings some very rich (in their opinion) guy thousands of miles away who they don't feel needs the money as badly as they do.

Women in Colombia fall out of love as quickly as they fall into love, but do you really think the are going to tell you they have met some other guy when they can keep silent and have you continue sending money?  They may feel horrible about what they are doing but feel they have no other choice, poverty trumps morality.

Plus, (an attractive young women feeling lonely because her boyfriend is thousand of miles away for weeks or month) + (lots of spending money in her pocket that she didn't have to earn) = Trouble

Besides wouldn't you feel so much better and secure about your relationship if you knew she was only with you because she loved you and wanted to be with you?  Do not confuse the issue by throwing financial motivations into the mix by feeling you have to support her or her family or whatever else.

[Cbear]

Regarding whether or not she is my girlfriend, well I'll be there in just a few more weeks and we'll see if I was right or wrong.

As for the money, I will spend my money anyway I want to. If I want to send it to some woman 10,000 miles away and I know there is a possibility that she will never reciprocate feelings or otherwise then who are you or anyone else to tell me I shouldn't. I earned it and I'll spend it any damn way I please. I understand advising newbies not to send money but that is because they don't recognize the red flags when they are new at this. Even though I have lived there I still didn't catch all the flags at first.  So I agree with the advise, but saying never under any circumstance is wrong. At some point there must be trust or the relationship will never work. And if you can't afford to play this game, then maybe you should go back to dating AW. I'm sure they cost a lot less. LOL

Again though, my girl won't even accept it. I offered and she flat out refused. So she isn't stringing me along for the money because there is no money being sent. She won't let me.

I really don't see anything wrong with hiring a private eye if you can afford it and it will bring peace of mind to you. I don't recommend it to someone who is on a tight budget. After all, peace of mind is what you are really buying here. One way or the other you will know the truth.

[jm21-2]

I would just like to respond to those posting that you should never send money to a woman you have never met.  My opinion is that you should never send any money AT ALL.  Not even if she tells you her grandmother's hair is on fire and she needs you to send $5 so she can buy a bucket of water to put it out!  Not even if she says she can't believe you don't trust her enough to send money and starts to cry. Not even if she starts talking about all the other guys who want to date her and tell her that her boyfriend is too stingy and how they would treat her like a princess if she were their girlfriend.  Not even if you do trust her and love her and think she is an excellent person.   Even a modest amount of money represents a huge temptation for women who have nothing.  They might feel that their immediate wants and needs (and those of their family) are far more important to them than hurting the feelings some very rich (in their opinion) guy thousands of miles away who they don't feel needs the money as badly as they do.

Women in Colombia fall out of love as quickly as they fall into love, but do you really think the are going to tell you they have met some other guy when they can keep silent and have you continue sending money?  They may feel horrible about what they are doing but feel they have no other choice, poverty trumps morality.

Plus, (an attractive young women feeling lonely because her boyfriend is thousand of miles away for weeks or month) + (lots of spending money in her pocket that she didn't have to earn) = Trouble

Besides wouldn't you feel so much better and secure about your relationship if you knew she was only with you because she loved you and wanted to be with you?  Do not confuse the issue by throwing financial motivations into the mix by feeling you have to support her or her family or whatever else.

Excellent post.

[utopiacowboy]

I would just like to respond to those posting that you should never send money to a woman you have never met.  My opinion is that you should never send any money AT ALL.  Not even if she tells you her grandmother's hair is on fire and she needs you to send $5 so she can buy a bucket of water to put it out!  Not even if she says she can't believe you don't trust her enough to send money and starts to cry. Not even if she starts talking about all the other guys who want to date her and tell her that her boyfriend is too stingy and how they would treat her like a princess if she were their girlfriend.  Not even if you do trust her and love her and think she is an excellent person.   Even a modest amount of money represents a huge temptation for women who have nothing.  They might feel that their immediate wants and needs (and those of their family) are far more important to them than hurting the feelings some very rich (in their opinion) guy thousands of miles away who they don't feel needs the money as badly as they do.

Women in Colombia fall out of love as quickly as they fall into love, but do you really think the are going to tell you they have met some other guy when they can keep silent and have you continue sending money?  They may feel horrible about what they are doing but feel they have no other choice, poverty trumps morality.

Plus, (an attractive young women feeling lonely because her boyfriend is thousand of miles away for weeks or month) + (lots of spending money in her pocket that she didn't have to earn) = Trouble

Besides wouldn't you feel so much better and secure about your relationship if you knew she was only with you because she loved you and wanted to be with you?  Do not confuse the issue by throwing financial motivations into the mix by feeling you have to support her or her family or whatever else.

My question is why even mess around with a poor woman? Do these guys date extremely poor women in the US? No, normally you stay within your socioeconomic level or educational level to find someone with similar experience and interests. Neither my wife nor her family needed my money so they never asked for it.

[Quixote9]

Utopia,

I would love to meet exotic foreign women that are not only are educated, attractive, passionate, leap at the chance to date an American guy many years older than her  AND comes from a very wealthy background. You are indeed fortunate to find that. I just don't think it's all that easy to run across, and such women probably aren't signing up with marriage agencies.  I guess that I tend to be attracted to women of similar educational background, rather than economic.  Women with university degrees in the USA tend to be better of financially than women with degrees in third world countries.  I don't think its dating down to be with woman unlucky enough to be born into a poor family in a poor country but yet has equal intelligence and drive as any successful woman in the USA.  I just think that means she has overcome more and worked harder to get her education.

[bcc_1_2]

  I just think that means she has overcome more and worked harder to get her education.

Hey you can be better off financially with a girl from colombia (or another country) because you won't have to repay her massive student loans which most young AW have.

[Jeff S]

Utopia,

I would love to meet exotic foreign women that are not only are educated, attractive, passionate, leap at the chance to date an American guy many years older than her  AND comes from a very wealthy background. You are indeed fortunate to find that. I just don't think it's all that easy to run across, and such women probably aren't signing up with marriage agencies.  I guess that I tend to be attracted to women of similar educational background, rather than economic.  Women with university degrees in the USA tend to be better of financially than women with degrees in third world countries.  I don't think its dating down to be with woman unlucky enough to be born into a poor family in a poor country but yet has equal intelligence and drive as any successful woman in the USA.  I just think that means she has overcome more and worked harder to get her education.

UC's not the only guy here who has accomplished this bit of "fortune"(?) though luck had little, if anything, to do with it. But if the "many years younger" is a requirement, neither of us qualify. You're absolutely right though, they don't join marriage agencies, but plenty are out there and on dating sites.

[Maria]

I would just like to respond to those posting that you should never send money to a woman you have never met.  My opinion is that you should never send any money AT ALL.  Not even if she tells you her grandmother's hair is on fire and she needs you to send $5 so she can buy a bucket of water to put it out!  Not even if she says she can't believe you don't trust her enough to send money and starts to cry. Not even if she starts talking about all the other guys who want to date her and tell her that her boyfriend is too stingy and how they would treat her like a princess if she were their girlfriend.  Not even if you do trust her and love her and think she is an excellent person.   Even a modest amount of money represents a huge temptation for women who have nothing.  They might feel that their immediate wants and needs (and those of their family) are far more important to them than hurting the feelings some very rich (in their opinion) guy thousands of miles away who they don't feel needs the money as badly as they do.

Women in Colombia fall out of love as quickly as they fall into love, but do you really think the are going to tell you they have met some other guy when they can keep silent and have you continue sending money?  They may feel horrible about what they are doing but feel they have no other choice, poverty trumps morality.

Plus, (an attractive young women feeling lonely because her boyfriend is thousand of miles away for weeks or month) + (lots of spending money in her pocket that she didn't have to earn) = Trouble

Besides wouldn't you feel so much better and secure about your relationship if you knew she was only with you because she loved you and wanted to be with you?  Do not confuse the issue by throwing financial motivations into the mix by feeling you have to support her or her family or whatever else.

Quixote,  I think this the first time, I read something like this.
I truly believe guys should find girls that work or encourage them to find work if they dont have a job..AND NEVER EVER ...  encourage her to quit her job and promise to pay her month salary...I always seem to hear the same sad story from girls telling their boyfriends how much they just hate their job and wish to find a new one which it is a hint help me...  Realize that an easy way out is always welcomed.

Now, to the subeject of sending money to women who you are only writting to and have never met is just plain out naive... I dont think it should be considered a love relationship either.

On the other hand sending money or not is does not determain if she is the right woman for you or not ....So focus on getting to know eachother, if you bring large amounts of money into the relationship, doubt will walk into it as well.

If you are dating, or writting to a girl that has no money and you start sending her large amounts of cash or more than what she needs to pay for her monthly bills. You cant not blame her for not knowing how to spend it. Because how can you know about something you have never had??? easy comes, easy goes...

Now, I know that a good Latin girl would encourage her man save money, and will not measure his love by the size of a diamond ring, a luxury car, or expensive gifts. In fact most girls are mainly Tully looking for respect, trust and honesty ...so put those things into it first not $$$$$.....

FL

[Ray]

I think Cbear's situation is a little different from the norm because he doesn't just fall for a woman's attempt to extort money from him...he insists on sending them money, even when they don't ask for it or don't want it.

Cbear, you are correct. It's your money and you certainly do have the right to spend it or even to throw it away if you wish. HOWEVER, please don't force money down these ladies' throats and then publicly label them as scammers or worse because they made a decision to accept your gift.

When you do give someone a gift, it is customary to do so with no strings attached. Give if you like, but don’t hire a private investigator to check up on how they spent your gift. And if they don’t love you forever, even after you insisted on giving them money, then please don’t publicly label them as a scammer.

A woman in a foreign land has just as much right to dump you as a woman in your country does. She still has a right to her privacy and her dignity. Don’t dump derogatory labels on her for rejecting your affection.

I guess you still have learned nothing from your recent experience with the young nursing student who accepted your gift of money, which is your right. But please don’t confuse the advice offered here as some sort of personal attack on you. Nobody is commanding you what to do with your own money.

Consider the advice offered in this thread as general advice directed not only at you, but mainly for the benefit of any rookies out there who may be tempted to let cash enter into their relationship with a woman in a foreign land.

Giving is not necessarily wrong or evil. But how you give and what you expect or don’t expect in return for your generosity is what is really important.

Ray

[Cbear]

Ray, please read all of my posts concerning this girl. SHE IS A SCAMMER, THAT IS HOW SHE MAKES A LIVING. I have proof of this. And it will be turned over to the authorities when I get there. Why should I let her continue to do this to other people when I have evidence that can stop her.

The money I sent her was not an open ended gift, it was to specifically be used to pay for her tuition. To the best of my determination, she did use it for her tuition. Most of it anyway.

I do not know why she used a real profile along with the many fraudulent ones she had listed. Only after she stopped communicating did I take further steps to determine what happened to her. For all I knew she could have been hurt or worse. I had no way of knowing. So I investigated further. This was before I even thought she was scamming. Remember that the investigator checked her story out and it was real so I had no reason to believe at this point anything was wrong.

After further research I found out about all the fake profiles and fake names and scams she was running. SHE IS A SCAMMER. Maybe she was trying to break out of it, I don't know, or maybe she decided it was time to scam her way to America.

I did find her and confront her about it. She told me she still loved me (really now) and wanted to know if I would help her pay her last exam, now that I knew the truth. Of course I didn't.

I have not used her real name but if they prosecute her and convict her I will post it. I can't say she scammed me because she didn't. But she has scammed many many other men with her fake profiles.

I see no reason not to tell everyone who she is if she is convicted.

And I am so very glad she didn't continue a relationship with me, can you imagine how that would turn out. I was hurt a bit but she isn't the girl I thought she was. So the feelings I may have had for her weren't based on facts but on lies.

But again, I have no regrets and I did send money to the other girl also for a Christmas gift for her son, was that wrong also? I wasn't even romantically interested in her.

I do not take it personnel, I am sorry if I came off that way. I just disagree that no one should ever send money for any reason. There can be valid reasons. And if the person is trustworthy (trust is earned folks, not given) then I see no reason not to.

There have been some very valid points made about sending money that I agree with, there is no reason to send a girl an allowance. Unless you really are a committed couple and the money is used for something like school. But in a case like this I agree that you should meet her first. I didn't. Lesson learned.

Also, no newbie should send money for anything, if he is that new then he doesn't even know the girl at all. Most scams progress rather quickly and if she thinks she isn't going to get any money she runs away. So simple time is the answer to the question of is she a scammer or not.

Now a hard core green card shark may be able to go the distance, but I am sure there are red flags there as well.

So I guess my advise is to just use your head and be careful.

On another note, as stated previously, my girl won't accept money from me. But I am having her check on cell phones to buy one for me when I am there. I am going to send her the money to buy the phone for me. It is worth the risk to me to see if she will actually use it for exactly what I want her to. She has agreed to do this since the money isn't technically for her but for me. So go ahead and flame me, but it is a test of sorts. I really want to see what happens. And I can afford to lose the money if it all goes south. The bad part will be coming on here and eating crow if I am wrong LOL

[Researcher]

 Wow, if I tried to get every scammer I ran across "convicted" I'd still be talking to authorities.

 To each his own. I say if you want to send money to someone you have never met, then send it. I wouldn't do it. The best way to get rid of a scammer is just don't send them money. I used to refuse to send money just to see what excuse they would come up with next. Later, it just became ridiculous and I stopped wasting my time and energy on them.

    Researcher