Is it ethical to spy on your Novia?

[Cbear]

Thats not her real name. Its an alias. I am not on the dating sites anymore since I found the one I want so I don't know what name she is using now.

It wouldn't do anyone any good to post her real name because she doesn't use it. She uses fake pics and aliases.

[Ray]

I dated a scammer in BQ. She was the ultimate gringa wanna-be estrato 5 primadonna and a royal pain in the butt.
No redeeming qualities what so ever...even the sex was bad.
I must've had rocks in my head for ever having anything to do with her. The only time I gave her any money was for utilities and food while I was staying in her house.

Anyway, she pledged her undying love to me  until one day she vanished. I was a little curious as to what happened to her so I googled her name. Didn't need a PI. Turns out she conned some shmuck into moving her outta Colombia and to St. Kitts. They're married now and living here in Florida.
Oh, well. Better him than me.

And she was a scammer because?

Because you helped her with the utilities and food while you stayed at her house? Was it cheaper than what you would have paid at a hotel?? Maybe she feels that you scammed her.

Nothing in your post shows me any evidence that she was a acammer or that you got scammed. Perhaps you're feelings were hurt because she dumped you for the other schmuck? Perhaps the other schmuck was better in bed?

Come on guys...these stories are NOT SCAMS!!!

Women make choices too you know.

Ray

[Ray]

I happen to agree with SFNM.

Cbear, it IS unethical to make serious accusations against a young lady and post personal information about her on a public forum.

You sound obsessed with her and it almost sounds like you are stalking her. You hired a “private investigator" (haha) and spent hundreds of dollars to check her out and track down her cell phone number so you could call her why? To harass her? And now you joke about looking her up when you go to the Philippines? For what? I thought you said it was over? Why don’t you just leave the lady alone and get on with your life?

She didn’t scam you. You ignored all good advice to the contrary and VOLUNTEERED to send her money and she NEVER asked you for a cent. THAT IS NOT A SCAM!

Is “Cbear” you real name on your birth certificate? Are you scamming us? Using aliases in on-line chat rooms or Internet dating sites IS NOT A SCAM!

For whatever reason she dumped you so get over it.

And why do you suppose that we are always telling guys like you not to send money to these girls? Precisely for the reasons you have demonstrated here. Once you introduce money into the relationship, suspicion, doubts, and ill feelings cloud the air and you never really know for sure what her real motivation is.

Now one more time for the newbies out there… DO NOT SEND MONEY to anyone you have never met in person!

Ray

[Maria]

PLAIN AND SIMPLE...IF YOU DONT SEND MONEY YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING SCAMMED ....

FL

[bcc_1_2]

PLAIN AND SIMPLE...IF YOU DONT SEND MONEY YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING SCAMMED ....

FL

Agree... I'm sick of reading the jusitifcations for sending money, wasting your time in this process, and stalking/spying on people who just aren't interested in you at all.

We've clearly gotten off the message of this thread, which was about hiring a PI. But I'm tired of reading the justifications. If you've never met her... why would you hire a PI over a relationship that doesn't exist. I think it was Cbear that said that no sending money rule only applied to newbies. I don't care if you are a newbie or oldie.... sending money to a women you aren't dating and have never met is a terrible idea if you are searching for a international relationship. Which is what this website is all about.

[utopiacowboy]

"And why do you suppose that we are always telling guys like you not to send money to these girls? Precisely for the reasons you have demonstrated here. Once you introduce money into the relationship, suspicion, doubts, and ill feelings cloud the air and you never really know for sure what her real motivation is.

Now one more time for the newbies out there… DO NOT SEND MONEY to anyone you have never met in person!"

Ray, you can tell 'em but you can't tell 'em much.

[Researcher]

PLAIN AND SIMPLE...IF YOU DONT SEND MONEY YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING SCAMMED ....

FL

   And if she is a scammer, she will go away if you don't send money.Then, you can move on. One of the biggest reasons I went international was simply that doing so increased my choices dramatically. After a while I started looking for reasons to "eliminate" a woman as a choice.I never saw the need to hire a PI, I can't remember it even crossing my mind.

   The thing is that some guys will get lucky and find that "gem" right off the bat.Then there are guys like me that needed to sift through some "rocks" to find her. That's why I say things like "kick 'em to the curb" and "move on". Just use common sense and listen to your gut. It doesn't matter to me whether or not someone thinks spying on your novia is ethical.I just don't think it is necessary.

             Researcher

[Cbear]

OK, the girl I was corresponding with is a scammer. Technically she didn't scam me because she never asked me for money and she used her real photos and real name with me.

That however doesn't change the fact that she is a scammer. She uses FAKE PROFILES and FAKE PICTURES THAT ARE NOT HER.

I have not posted her name, only a couple of the aliases she uses. Not like the screen names people use, but the name she tells you is her real name. She lies.

Was I dumped by her, sure. I'm glad she did. I would have dumped her as soon as I found out how she made a living. SCAMMING.  She graduates nursing school in 2 months. I think her next scam is to find a way to the US. Maybe that was what she was doing with her real profile, I don't know. Kinda hard to meet and marry someone if you are using fake pics and a fake name.

Anyway, I don't have any qualms about hiring a PI. He actually cost more than what I sent her. I just didn't want to get my heart broken.

And I still don't believe that you should never send money to a girl over seas. Lets face it, you would spend money on a girl here if you are serious about her, so why not there? If you trust her and there is a good reason for it then why not. Just never expect to get it back.

All that said, my girl won't accept a dime so it doesn't apply to me anymore anyway. LOL

[bcc_1_2]

OK, the girl I was corresponding with is a scammer. Technically she didn't scam me because she never asked me for money and she used her real photos and real name with me.

All that said, my girl won't accept a dime so it doesn't apply to me anymore anyway. LOL

Don't send money... and no need to justify it later. Or worse spend even more money on a PI. We do agree on one thing Cbear this teen virgin girl you are chatting with on the net is a whole different ball of wax than the scammer. Good luck.

[Dan Las Vegas]

"And why do you suppose that we are always telling guys like you not to send money to these girls? Precisely for the reasons you have demonstrated here. Once you introduce money into the relationship, suspicion, doubts, and ill feelings cloud the air and you never really know for sure what her real motivation is.

Now one more time for the newbies out there… DO NOT SEND MONEY to anyone you have never met in person!"

Ray, that is the best piece of advice that a person could use. Perhaps instead of requiring a person to wait five posts before being able to send PM's, they should be required to write," I will not send money to anyone I have not met!!!" five hundred times

[singlefather no more]

We do agree on one thing Cbear this teen virgin girl you are chatting with on the net is a whole different ball of wax than the scammer.

bcc,

Why are you making comments about another posters girl being a virgin ?

What possible relation to this thread does that have other then trying to put in another snide comment about his girl being a virgin ?

Since you have been giving him a extremely hard time on the Asian board and attacking him for having a teenage virgin girlfriend , I don't think this was a slip of your mind or fingers..

Yes going after a guy during a 13 page thread with 182 posts which over 30 posts are yours shows you have a axe to grind..

Have you paid up you membership dues to your local fem nazi organization lately ? lol

http://www.planet-love.com/forum/index.php?topic=4096.0

Grown men don't hit below the belt like you do and attack posters about their girlfriend,

Making negative comments and snide remarks about another man's wife , novia , girlfriend , love interest is out of bounds here and a gentleman would not do that.


singlefather no more


..

[bcc_1_2]

What possible relation to this thread does that have other then trying to put in another snide comment about his girl being a virgin ?

Since you have been giving him a extremely hard time on the Asian board about him having a teenage virgin girlfriend

What relation does it have to this thread? Personally I was a little worried that this thread would turn into something that didn't clearly state DON'T SEND MONEY. But plenty of people have chimed in on that. I do think people visit this board all the time after they have been on cam with a girl they met on a personals site. Maybe the girl showed up with a cast on... who knows. But she is hinting at money. And the visitor is wondering... should I send her money? No, don't do it. Don't do it and then hire a PI. Don't do it. Hire a PI, and then search for justifications later. Just don't do it.

As for being hard or appearing to be hard on Cbear. I truly do regret doing that or having it appear that way in my writting. When he first started posting it read like he had a weird fascination with teen virgin girls. How true is that in reality? I can only go on how it read.

My problem wasn't really with Cbear but the people that seemed to let it all slide after he posted it. I thought those long time posters on that board should have cautioned him on focusing on those features. So I really only wished to come down hard on those that didn't warm him about it. From what I remember some people seemed to think the philippines are different than anywhere else. Which of course it is as all countries are. I just follow JMs logic that when economic conditions and women's right in a country improve 18 year old girls no longer wish to get married as young and generally dont go for 45 or even older.... 60+ year old men. My logic was that an 18 or 19 year old girl from any developing country is going to change a lot in the coming years (as almost all teens do)... and that is thrown into hyper drive when she moves to america. I personally see a lot of positives in women a few years older that have experienced the world (having a job etc). I will note that I don't have a problem with middle aged and older guys going for younger girls (even much younger) but the original emphasis placed on her very young age and virginity was cause for concern.

Why it was brought up here? Because these justifications just turn into bad advice for those learning about this. All I would suggest is based on some of those original posts plus these justifications for sending money to a woman he never met... maybe newbies should not heed the justifications and maybe Cbear has some more to learn (starting with just leveling with himself). But to be fair we all have more to learn. I learn new things every day. Glad I do too.

[bcc_1_2]

Have you paid up you membership dues to your local fem nazi organization lately ? lol

ah I remember JM getting called this. I guess it is my turn now!  yes!.  Well for someone who calls feminism a special interest group I don't think they'd let me in. And as I've noted before I really don't have an axe to grind nor is it that I can't handle that women are into older men (both of which have been suggested).

Just keep in mind that I've suggested these guys go after ladies in their mid 20s which would put them in direct competition with.... me.

[bcc_1_2]

Grown men don't hit below the belt like you do and attack posters about their girlfriend,

JM was baited to make a negative comment about Bear's wife... but to his credit he did not take the bait. As for me attacking anyone's girlfriend. If you have never met her... she is not your girlfriend.

[singlefather no more]

As for me attacking anyone's girlfriend. If you have never met her... she is not your girlfriend.

So you admit to attacking cbear girl and making your snide along with derogatory remarks about cbear and his girl in the 2 threads ?

I thought you would plead the fifth on this ..

Glad you cleared that one up and removed all doubts about what you are thinking..

singlefather no more

..

[bcc_1_2]

So you admit to attacking cbear girl and making your snide along with derogatory remarks about cbear and his girl in the 2 threads ?

I thought you would plead the fifth on this ..

Glad you cleared that one up and removed all doubts about what you are thinking..

singlefather no more

..

I'd have to go back and look but whatever I said would be my generalizations about the majority of teen girls and not about any one girl personally. I think you are a good guy and wish everyone here the best of luck with very few exceptions (cbear not being one of those exceptions).

But sadly if you consider someone you've just met online a girlfriend... that is cause for concern. Nobody you've never met in person is your girlfriend. Period.

Right now... nobody is Cbear's girl... unless he has a daughter.

[Zon]

To answer the question ...

If you even feel it is necessary for a moment - YES

[Researcher]

To answer the question ...

If you even feel it is necessary for a moment - YES

            If you feel it is necessary-Dump her.

[singlefather no more]

If you feel the need to spy then try and say goodbye and have a rye...

I am not responsible for the above malarky.. lol

Follow your gut feeling , there are to many great women to not kick a women to the curb if something does not feel right..

singlefather no more

..

[jm21-2]

            If you feel it is necessary-Dump her.

Ditto. And ditto on the not sending money.

Sending money to a girl you never met? I can't understand why anyone would even consider doing something so utterly retarded...but I know people do and it blows my mind. Why would you send money to a girl you have met even?

Are these the kind of guys who when dating in America bought the porsche or the speed boat to attract the ladies? tried to impress the girl by taking her out to a world-class restaurant on the first date? Showed how they loved her by buying her a car? Bought an expensive engagement ring to improve your chances? Slaved away to buy her that house in a subdivision? Give me a break....

[Cbear]

JM, just because I haven't laid eyes on her in person doesn't mean I don't know her. We have been chatting and talking on the phone for hours each day now for the past 2 months. I would say she is my girlfriend. I know pretty much where she is all day long as she does me also. I have hundreds of pictures of her. I see her on cam. She is not just a figment of my imagination. She is a real human being and we both have feelings for each other.

So yes, I think she is my girlfriend. She doesn't see anyone else and neither do I.

This isn't the proper forum to answer you in but this is where you brought it up.

I do not have a fascination with teen virgin girls, she will be 21 before we marry. And as stated previously I don't do pre-marital sex. She was the only teen to make my short list. So where do you get off saying those derogatory things about me?

As for sending money, my advice is don't unless you trust the person 100%. I didn't trust the girl I sent the money to 100% but at that time in my life I just didn't care. I do trust my girl now and would send money to her if she needed it. I know though that she will never ask. She even calls me sometimes on her own dime. Do you know what it costs her to call me? $1.57 a minute. Thats a lot of money in the Philippines just to make a phone call.

[mudd]

Hey, what the hell??     you guys always get of the subject of the original post,  do you guys even remember what the hell it was about ?

either comment on the original post, or go start a new one in the " flame " room!!!!
Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[bcc_1_2]

JM, just because I haven't laid eyes on her in person doesn't mean I don't know her.
So yes, I think she is my girlfriend.
This isn't the proper forum to answer you in but this is where you brought it up.

 So where do you get off saying those derogatory things about me?

What I (not JM) said was that you were talking to a virgin teen online. SF wanted to know why I brought it up... which was to put your justifications for sending money in perspective. I stated a fact about you chatting online with a teen virgin girl. Was simply stating a fact not trying to make a derogatory comment.

Sadly merriam-webster dictionary does not agree with you on having a girlfriend. Maybe a virtual one though... like those digipets.

[lite sweet dude]

And she was a scammer because?

Because you helped her with the utilities and food while you stayed at her house? Was it cheaper than what you would have paid at a hotel?? Maybe she feels that you scammed her.

Nothing in your post shows me any evidence that she was a acammer or that you got scammed. Perhaps you're feelings were hurt because she dumped you for the other schmuck? Perhaps the other schmuck was better in bed?

Come on guys...these stories are NOT SCAMS!!!

Women make choices too you know.

Ray

Maybe she was more of a liar than scammer. What was wrong with just writing me a line and saying, "hey, I don't want to see you anymore"? Wouldn't have bothered me one bit. Instead, she just vanished and I had made reservations to visit (which I fortunately got back). Maybe that's the Colombian way of breaking things off. But I've moved on.

[jm21-2]

JM, just because I haven't laid eyes on her in person doesn't mean I don't know her. We have been chatting and talking on the phone for hours each day now for the past 2 months. I would say she is my girlfriend. I know pretty much where she is all day long as she does me also. I have hundreds of pictures of her. I see her on cam. She is not just a figment of my imagination. She is a real human being and we both have feelings for each other.

So yes, I think she is my girlfriend. She doesn't see anyone else and neither do I.

This isn't the proper forum to answer you in but this is where you brought it up.

Well, actually, I didn't mention anything about the topic. But since you brought it up in response to an imaginary post that you apparently think I made, yes, an online girlfriend is not a real girlfriend.

My actual post was mentioning that whether you've met a girl in person or not, there's no good reason to send a girl money. Wooing a woman with your wallet is pathetic and will only cause you grief in the future. I was not commenting on you personally, but just in general.