plan A and plan B found out about each other.

[Bear]

Should be interesting to see what the unequal one will do? Ya know the one you have never met but trust completely. Man I feel like a dick. But more posters really should be playing devils advocate here.

Can we at least agree that Bear is the statistical anomaly and not the norm?

What I'm trying to tell you is its not abnormal at all with Filipinas.  They don't see it the same as you.  My wife is constantly telling me I'm young, and she knows guys older married to younger girls still having children.  You can put all the American phobias on it you want but this in not America, this is international dating and American rules don't always carry the same weight.  Its the same with weight, and hair and job status.  A heavy 'male' (double standard) means wealth because it is seen as he has enough money to eat and food cost money.  If you have a job in America you are better off than them.  You got to understand its not got to be from your point of view and your standards

The Bear Family.

[jm21-2]

Reminds me of the song "girls lie too,"

So she can’t go out tonight again
Her sister’s sick, she’s gotta baby-sit
Yeah, that sounds like a pretty good excuse

Now you didn’t hear any of this from me
But things aren’t always what they seem
Brace yourself, this may come as a shock to you

Girls lie, too
We don’t care how much money you make
What you drive or what you weigh
Size don’t matter anyway
Girls lie, too
Don’t think you’re the only ones
Who bend and break and stretch it some
We learn from you
Girls lie, too

We can’t wait to hear about your round of golf
We love to see deer heads hanging on the wall
And we like Hooter’s for their hotwings too
Other guys never cross our minds
We don’t wonder what it might be like
How could it be any better than it is with you

(Repeat Chorus)

Yeah, girls lie, too
We always forgive and forget
The cards and flowers you never sent
Will never be brought up again
Girls lie, too
Old gray sweatpants turn us on
We like your friends and we love your mom
And that's the truth
Girls lie, too
Yeah that’s the truth
Girls lie, too

[No, we don’t care how much hair you have
Yeah, that looks good
Comb it over like that
Rrrrrrrrrrr...

[bcc_1_2]

Its the same with weight, and hair and job status.  A heavy 'male' (double standard) means wealth because it is seen as he has enough money to eat and food cost money.  If you have a job in America you are better off than them.  You got to understand its not got to be from your point of view and your standards

I get it man you got a great wife. I believe the women are interested in older men. I just think the veteran guys on here should provide a disclaimer to middle aged guys posting their plans on their perfect virgin teen penpal. I also know many of these women know the immigration laws better than we do. I think these guys just need some balanced comments because a few of these guys are really drinking the Kool Aide.

[Cbear]

Yeah they all lie. But it is a matter of degrees. An AW will lie far more. And yes I think she is a virgin and not lying, and yes her virginity is a very high price to pay for a green card, it is to most girls from good families.

Lets face it, we want a girl from a good family. A dirt poor girl with no way out will do anything to get out. This is not what you look for.

My girl went to a private high school, verified, she is a student at a private university, verified. She knows if on our wedding night I find out she is not a virgin then I will leave her. I will not tolerate a lie of that magnitude. I also have her address, verified.
 So I have no reason to doubt what she says. She isn't even allowed to court until she finishes school. Only her mother knows about me right now.

I honestly believe she is telling the truth. If she was any kind of scammer at all she would have jumped at the money I offered.

I will also be the first to admit if this all goes south on me. I admitted I got scammed by the first girl I was interested in. So why not tell the truth if this goes south

[piglett]

Absolutely. I would get as many of your debts gone before marriage though...or are you going to make her pay back your debts?

Dude
i have no car loans
1 credit
& i owe 64k on my house
I think i can handle my debts on my own

I would like to build a new house with cash before any childeren show up though 
this is what i was realy talking about , but not exactly what i said
guess you can't be too clear

[Dave H]

Hey Cbear,

It sounds like your lady has a very good life in the Philippines. My wife's family wasn't rich, but they all went to college and had food on the table. I know Filipinas who will do anything to live in America. The trick is to find one who would like to visit America (especially to visit Disney),  but is perfectly happy living in the Philippiines. My wife just moved back to the Philippines today. I should be following shortly if all goes well. 

Dave

[Heruamen]

 my comment is directed at jm21-2.  I don't understand why you are so hung up on the age gap thing.  You keep talking about statistics and proven this and proven that, but you completely ignore the human factor. Not every young girl is the same. Not every older guy is the same.  One 18 year old may be mature as a 30 year old from her life experience. another 18 yr old could be 15 yrs old in mentality. One man who is 40 could have a very youthful spirit.  It is not for you to judge.  There could be a strong spiritual connection between between people of different age levels that must be played out in a relationship.
  You claim that it seems that the older men just want a piece of young flesh but you don't really know the heart of that man.  you are using intellect to much to judge situations that are not based completly on intellect alone.  when I am reviewing the websites I personally bypass most 18 yr old because in some photos they look as if they are still in the ultra silly stage.  But sometimes I see one with womanly bearing and composure.  I would not close my mind completly to dating one because each situation is different.
    For me 21 to 30 is my range.  i am 41 and i know I want at least 4 more children.  The women even close to my age I've dated in this country swear they would not even think about having children.  For the pupose of family a woman in her mid 20s is the best option for any man who wants to have children.
   Also when the poster gave the example of how in past time many people had great age differences in marriage( I think he used the old west as an example)
you said that was the past this is now.  Human nature does not change there are certain laws of nature that will govern male female relations till the end of time.
    And finally your statement alluding that all me who are 40 have potbellies and are ugly, I find interesting.  I am 41 muscular, in great shape, fight mixed martial arts regularly crushing young fools on a regular basis.  I have to turn down many 20 something year olds who come at me because I am no longer interested in dating a certain kind of woman now. Most of the men on here do not seem like they follow the herd but march to their on beat to their own destiny. It's as if you wish they would play by some rule book.  The only reality is what you make of it with you thoughts and visions.  My hat goes off in admiration to all the men on here 40 and above who have found their vision of love.

[jm21-2]

One 18 year old may be mature as a 30 year old from her life experience.

Sorry, but no way. I suppose there's a one in a million chance, but who really cares about one in a million chances?

   Also when the poster gave the example of how in past time many people had great age differences in marriage( I think he used the old west as an example)
you said that was the past this is now.  Human nature does not change there are certain laws of nature that will govern male female relations till the end of time.

Consider also that the options for a partner were much more limited in the old west. Now they are nearly unlimited due to population increases, change in culture, the internet, etc.

    And finally your statement alluding that all me who are 40 have potbellies and are ugly, I find interesting.  I am 41 muscular, in great shape, fight mixed martial arts regularly crushing young fools on a regular basis. 

You are the exception, not the rule. I meant the allusion to be humorous. The plain fact is that the typical middle-aged American is not especially attractive physically to a young girl.

[piglett]

my comment is directed at jm21-2.  I don't understand why you are so hung up on the age gap thing.  You keep talking about statistics and proven this and proven that, but you completely ignore the human factor. Not every young girl is the same. Not every older guy is the same.  One 18 year old may be mature as a 30 year old from her life experience. another 18 yr old could be 15 yrs old in mentality. One man who is 40 could have a very youthful spirit.  It is not for you to judge. 

You hit the nail rite on the head on this one!!!!!!!
my neighbor is 40 years old & sometimes you would think he was 16 years old
another friend of mine is in his late 20's , but makes decisions like most 40 something guys would

[Heruamen]

 wi well we just have to agree to pleasantly disagree. Because my main point was that every situation is different and must me judged accordingly not by the same yardstick in all situations

[Jeff S]

Jeff, what do you think the chances of a guy coming here to post regularly after being burned horribly a couple years after marriage because he made a dumb ass mistake?

Plenty have. Humabdos and Howard come to mind. Both got back in the saddle and did it right the second time.

[Cbear]

I hate agreeing with you jm21. but you are right about most of us having pot bellies and not so attractive. But the fact is I can attract young AW too, I just talk to them. Like the 19 year old waitress at a popular wing joint. If I wanted her it would have been easy, I was just practicing to see if I could still do it and to my surprise it worked.

Now the PI girls I have talked to all say I am handsome, I know they are lying but I catch them staring at my face on web cam all the time. They say I have a kind face and they really like it. Funny, that is the same thing they told me 19 years ago when I lived in PI. So I guess some things don't change.

My girl gets upset when I won't turn my cam on, she always wants to see me. She always stares. I have to ask her to stop sometimes. I am not a good looking guy, just the opposite. I have even been told by former GFs that I was ugly but irresistible. So girls don't go on looks alone. Even my AW wife was a total knockout, my friends could never believe when I walked in with her on my arm, too bad she is crazy.

But she still wants me back too, so I must have something these girls like. It ain't money, not yet anyway. I'm workin on that.

So I'm going to court this girl and see where it goes, I will give ya all reports as it goes along.

[Heruamen]

  hahaha funny post cbear

[jm21-2]

I refer you to my previous post on this thread.

While it's true that we Americans might look down on older people a bit, there's also this culture in America where old people try to act like they are much younger. You see it in the cougars trying to get the young guys. You see it in the middle-aged guys talking about how young they are. You see it in the ridiculous ADEA claims where the old DJ is like "I have no idea why they fired me, it's not like I'm out of touch with my audience that is 20 years younger than me, I'm still young!" And you see it in the old guys chasing teenage tail in other countries. If these people actually acted their age they might get a bit more respect.

A person's mental age may well be different from their physical age. Some people mature swiftly while others mature slowly. But to say a 18yo girl is similar to a 30yo girl if she's mature is ridiculous. To say a 40-something year old guy is like a 16yo guy is ridiculous. That's stretching things beyond breaking.

Hey, if you want to go for a much younger girl, go for it. Just know your chance of failure is very high. And don't hide behind BS. You are not dating her because she has some amazing intellectual connection with you. You want her because she's young and unspoiled.

[bcc_1_2]

might as well give up JM. Biology seems to be trumphing rationale here.

That 19 year old waitress at the popular wing joint works for tips. Oh guys the asians I know aren't from the philippines (well i know one), but one last time I'd highly encourage you to really think about the generation gap and the stage in your life you are at compared to a 18 year old kid.

This isn't about you being in shape or not. It isn't about you being a great guy or not. It isn't any atribute at all. The world is smaller. The internet, technology and western culture has influenced most girls at least a little bit. More importantly is how much all guys and girls change from the age of 18 to 25. If by some stroke of insane luck you are compatible when you are 40,45,50  and she is 18 great, but she is going to change a lot over the next 4 to 7 years.

I hate using a Mark Cuban saying. But when you are sitting down at the bargaining table and you don't see the sucker.... its you. The girl I'm with isn't like all other 18 year old girls. I don't look or act like all other middle aged men. Crap I was at a club the other night and this 42 year old guy I slightly knew was decked out and hitting on women damn near half is age. He told me it was cool because he really only looked like he was in his late 20s. No you don't dude. You look great, but you can't turn back time. You can't make 20 years go away.

A lot of these middle aged (or even worse old men) are like deer running across the highway going after these teenagers.

I say all this and I'm not above it. I generally start with girls in their early 20s that are in college or just finished.

The sea is stocked well with mid and late 20s stunning women (some like JM described). Mature, more wise to the ways of the world and ready to settle down. Sometimes the deer does get across the highway during rush hour traffic. Are you sure you want to try it?

Maybe you should ask JM what its like to be hit. After all he does deal with the aftermath.

[Heruamen]

   Once again I ask you how could you truly understand another mans heart desire and motivation.  That may be true what you said, or it could be something else.  I understand though that you must be at that age where you feel as though you have all of the answers.  Just because you've never seen something in your limited life experience ofreality does not mean that if doesn't exist.
  You can't see air but it is real.  I personally know a few 18 year olds in America who are mature beyond there years. Don't assume anything is ridiculous because you've never seen it in your limiited life experience how ever old you are.
And I never said anything about a 40yr old acting like a 16 year old, I said a 40 year old with a youthful spirit.
  So many would be experts said we would never see a black president in office.  People actually wrote books on why Obama could not get elected because America is so rascist but it was white American who voted for Obama in the majority.
  Anything is possible. You sound like those old timers who said a black president ridiculous.  Funny how they use the same term as you.

[bcc_1_2]

I understand though that you must be at that age where you feel as though you have all of the answers.  Just because you've never seen something in your limited life experience ofreality does not mean that if doesn't exist.

    So many would be experts said we would never see a black president in office.  People actually wrote books on why Obama could not get elected because America is so rascist but it was white American who voted for Obama in the majority.
 

You see your quote up there. Myself and JM must be at that age? I'm 25 and I believe he is 26. I have an MBA and he is an attorney. Imagine how 18 year old girls act. If you think we are at "that age" oh boy... hold on.

Again here we go on another tangent about the presidential elections. Over 50% of white america voted against Obama. It was young people that got him elected. There was this very white little state in the midwest that voted first during the caucus/primary season when Hillary Clinton was the clear front runner. I voted for Obama... turns out the rest of the state did as well because he won. This has nothing to do with that.

We have 3 guys here talking to teenagers. Bear admitted he was nervous as crap about Honey being I believe it was 18 or 19 at the time. I just wish the guy with all the experience would step up and caution guys from dating teenagers. It is working for him so I don't expect him to pull out the red flag but let's at least be rational about this. Sure it could possibly work. The deer can get across the road. But is it wise to pass up on a sea full of stunning women in their 20s?

[jm21-2]

  Once again I ask you how could you truly understand another mans heart desire and motivation.  That may be true what you said, or it could be something else.  I understand though that you must be at that age where you feel as though you have all of the answers.  Just because you've never seen something in your limited life experience ofreality does not mean that if doesn't exist.
  You can't see air but it is real.  I personally know a few 18 year olds in America who are mature beyond there years. Don't assume anything is ridiculous because you've never seen it in your limiited life experience how ever old you are.
And I never said anything about a 40yr old acting like a 16 year old, I said a 40 year old with a youthful spirit.
  So many would be experts said we would never see a black president in office.  People actually wrote books on why Obama could not get elected because America is so rascist but it was white American who voted for Obama in the majority.
  Anything is possible. You sound like those old timers who said a black president ridiculous.  Funny how they use the same term as you.

And you are at the stage of life where you are in denial of your age. You encourage marrying a little girl who has ABSOLUTELY no clue about reality.

I am not saying anything is ridiculous because I haven't experienced it. I am saying it is ridiculous because it is an amazing exception, not the norm.

Piglett mentioned a 40yo acting like a 16yo.

I am from OR originally. I argued with my parents frequently about that...they are dems and thought Obama would never get elected due to racism. I told them the pro-racial-diversity of liberals will get him elected. His policies are horrible, though perhaps better than McCain, but there are tons of liberals who will vote for him just because he's black.

Your comments show how out of touch you are. Still thinking along black/white lines and blighting America by focusing on issues that are almost non-existent in modern times?

[Ray]

Hey cbear,

Just a couple of corrections on Filipino culture.

The couple is NEVER ALLOWED TO BE ALONE.

So there is no one on one interaction as a couple at all until the marriage.

That sounds all fine and dandy, but I happen to know of quite a few Filipina girls from traditional, strict families who got knocked up out of marriage when they were in school. You can’t watch them 24/7 so it’s not too wise to ever ass-u-me that they will never be alone with someone of the opposite sex. It happens a lot more than you would think.

If she graduated from high school at 16, then she didn’t graduate early. The normal age for grads is 16 because their education through high school is 2 years shorter than ours.

The half your age + 7 formula is not crap. It’s a good guideline to follow IF you want to increase your odds of having a successful relationship and nothing more than that. It's not a law or even a hard and fast rule, just good common sense. A 25-year age difference is a much bigger issue at your age than it would be for say a 65-year-old man.

Personally, I have nothing against large age differences but for your own sake don’t automatically write off anyone’s advice as crap. You don’t have to follow anyone’s advice here and you don’t need to pay for it, so take it for what it’s worth and use your head.

Ray

[bcc_1_2]

The half your age + 7 formula is not crap. It’s a good guideline to follow IF you want to increase your odds of having a successful relationship and nothing more than that. It's not a law or even a hard and fast rule, just good common sense. A 25-year age difference is a much bigger issue at your age than it would be for say a 65-year-old man.

I agree. And its not just the difference in age but the fact that these are teenagers. He's 43 and if he was dating a 25 year old I would have kept my mouth (fingers lol) shut. Sure its still a 18 year difference and thats big. But the girl isn't a teenager shes grown up at least.

[Cbear]

Ray you are right about the school and the age, Also about some girls girls getting knocked up at school, but you and I both know that for a traditional filipina family that is abnormal. I lived there at one time, A long time ago, but still I remember the culture, I had to put up with the chaporones and the family members who didn't want to go along but someone had to. So they got picked to babysit us.

And for the waitress, of course they are working tips. But they have also heard every pick up line you can think of, I am just a bit different. My best friend before I married was a Hooters calendar girl. With her expert advise I had no trouble learning how to pick up a waitress. And I picked this on up the other night. She isn't workin tips after she gets off work. To bad I don't believe in pre marital sex anymore, I'm sure she would have been a lot of fun. Just a tad to much to drink when she was on duty.

If I wanted a hot sexy girl I would be looking for an older woman, I married hot and sexy, so no thanks, give me cute and pure from now on. If shes never had her heart broken she doesn't bring the baggage to the relationship. And yes, we men do have baggage also but it isn't as big a problem as it is with women because they are so much more emotional. And again the virgin study shows that they are much less likely to cheat than girls who have even had just 1 partner before marriage.

I guess that is a morals issue. But I am willing to take the chance and see where this goes. Like I said many times but you guys must be missing it, I won' even marry her for at least 2 years and probably 3, so if we are going to have some stumbling blocks we'll probably run into them during our long coraspondance and courtship. So we aren't rushing into this my any stretch of the imagination.

[bcc_1_2]

To bad I don't believe in pre marital sex anymore,

If shes never had her heart broken she doesn't bring the baggage to the relationship. And yes, we men do have baggage also but it isn't as big a problem as it is with women because they are so much more emotional.

Are you a born again virgin? lol amazing when you want a young virginal girl you don't believe in premarital relations anymore. You don't see a connection between your broken heart and baggage to wanting a virginal pure girl...teen?

I mean [snip] its a free country. I just wish the experienced guys would issue some more cautions. Age isn't just a number any more than fat girls are just more to love. You can do what you want. It's a free country. But why bargain and lie to yourself? Just be up front about what you want and why you want it. And be prepared to live with the consequences.

[Ray]

Ray you are right about the school and the age, Also about some girls girls getting knocked up at school, but you and I both know that for a traditional filipina family that is abnormal. I lived there at one time, A long time ago, but still I remember the culture, I had to put up with the chaporones and the family members who didn't want to go along but someone had to. So they got picked to babysit us.

Cbear,

I also lived in the Philippines.

It's not as abnormal as you think that a girl from a traditional family gets pregnant out of wedlock. It's just that it isn't talked about.

A family will lose face if their little girl gets knocked up so there are a lot of shotgun weddings...more than you probably ever thought about.

A lot of this traditional family stuff is partly a facade. Once you get inside with some Filipino families, you start learning all the dirty little secrets. About how mommy was pregnant when she married daddy and lots of other juicy stuff that isn't for public consumption. Yes, people can count to nine months but it's something you just don't mention because you don't want the family to lose face because of your big mouth, so you keep it to yourself and life goes on.

And chaperones are for organized dates, but you don't have to be on a date to get pregnant now, do you? And besides, if you know how it works over there, chaperones can be and are bought off all the time. Yes, it's also part of the culture... 

Ray

[Heruamen]

  I simply used the obama election as an analogy.  The only point I am trying to make is you can not judge every situation by the same yardstick.  A point that you fail to address on your reply. It is the arrogant know it all tone that you use to set forth what you believe as fact leaving no opening to the possibility of something different being true for someone else.   I didn't write the Obama comment to get  into all the politics of him getting elected.  The purpose was to show that many people said it was impossible yet it happened.  you can assume what you want about my motivations all you want.  I will never see you and you affect my life in  no way whatsoever so you can think what you want. I simply pointed out that you don't know what motivates another man. Comment all you want but I am done since this is counterproductive.

[Cbear]

to bcc first, born again virgin, no. Born again Christian, yes.

Go look at a few of my first posts here, when I was talking to the 28 year old girl who is not a virgin, I mentioned then in a post that I didn't believe in pre-marital sex, so this is a moral choice for me and has nothing to do with me being interested in a virgin. I had this conviction from the moment my marriage ended, I knew I would not sleep with a woman until she is my wife. I am sorry if you can not understand someone with moral convictions.

Ray, you are right again. but the truth is many more girls are married as virgins than shotgun weddings. I even had one girl break down and cry because I didn't understand a part of the sub culture from her area. She went with me one night without a chaporoane and I didn't sleep with her. She was very upset, when I asked her to explain why she was crying and that I didn't understand what I did wrong this is what she told me.

In her culture when she goes on a date with a man, without her chaporones, he is supposed to rape her. Yes, she is expecting it, even wanting it, but she is to fight. If he is a man, he will take her, then it is expected that he marry her immediately. She said she thought I understood this when I started courting her. She was upset that she had to tell me and that I didn't know. She was even more upset when I refused to because I wasn't gonna get married that week LOL

She never spoke to me again, I guess I wasn't man enough for her LOL Has anyone else ever heard of anything like that? I don't know what area she was originally from but her entire family had moved to angeles city. She was a hostess at a nice hotel there.