plan A and plan B found out about each other.

[bcc_1_2]

to bcc first, born again virgin, no. Born again Christian, yes.

Go look at a few of my first posts here, when I was talking to the 28 year old girl who is not a virgin, I mentioned then in a post that I didn't believe in pre-marital sex, so this is a moral choice for me and has nothing to do with me being interested in a virgin. I had this conviction front the moment my marriage ended, I knew I would not sleep with a woman until she is my wife. I am sorry if you can not understand someone with moral convictions.

I rip on feminists all the time. I call them a special interest group. I rag on them for copying what they hate (men.. ya know the shoulder pads they put in their jackets... the short boy hair cuts etc). But if you as a middle age man are only looking for virginal young women and want to pull the religion card out to do it. Then I need to call you out on that. If your partner can only be a virgin and you have slept with women before yourself. That's a double standard.

[Dave H]

I married an 18 y/o (I was 26) Latina whose dream was to get married, be a housewife and raise children. She seemed so very mature! That all change by the time she reached 21, had our first son and she wasn't getting all of the attention that she desired. Every year she would morph into someone new until she was around 30. The marriage lasted 12 years and cost me a fortune trying to hold it together. When I met my new Filipina wife, she was 26 to my 43. I was worried about marrying someone in her 20's. The age difference didn't bother me so much, since I look like Kevin Costner and much younger than my age. NOT!  I was thinking mid 30's to early 40's.  It turns out, she  is much more mature than me.   My wife's sister met an older Kano when she was 21. He was her first boyfriend. They have been married and doing great for over 10 years. No, he isn't rich, she is a nurse. No she wasn't looking for a green card, they live in the Philippines. So success can happen...but, I think the odds of success are much better with a formula like Ray's. I don't want to walk around all day listening to the friggin' Jonas Brothers!  Also my wife was born and raised in an area and time that was pre-cellphone. She doesn't walk around all day texting and chatting, one of my pet peeves!!!

Dave

[jm21-2]

I rip on feminists all the time. I call them a special interest group. I rag on them for copying what they hate (men.. ya know the shoulder pads they put in their jackets... the short boy hair cuts etc). But if you as a middle age man are only looking for virginal young women and want to pull the religion card out to do it. Then I need to call you out on that. If your partner can only be a virgin and you have slept with women before yourself. That's a double standard.

Yep, that is absolute bull[snip].

Heruaman,

I'm not saying all things can be measured by the same yardstick. I'm saying the vast majority can. I've always said there are exceptions. What I'm saying is that exceptions are exceptions, not the norm. Don't expect the exceptions to happen to you.

[Heruamen]

 Dave H I know what you mean .  We have one of the same pet peeves .  It drives me crazy when I see grown women walking around with their cell phones planted on like a third ear texting and chatting about nothing.  Women at my job constantly do this

[bcc_1_2]

Dave H I know what you mean .  We have one of the same pet peeves .  It drives me crazy when I see grown women walking around with their cell phones planted on like a third ear texting and chatting about nothing.  Women at my job constantly do this

pretty much any 18 year old girl that can afford the phone does this.

BEG- Big Evil Grin
BBN- bye bye now
B4- Before
UW- Your Welcome
TTYL- talk to you later
TRDMF- tears running down my face
TAS- taking a shower
STR8- straight
SU- shut up
KMIRL- lets meet in real life

even if she knows english you are still going to learn a new language. it is called texting. example of the generational gap. Ya know the concept that age is more than just a number.

[Dave H]

Dave H I know what you mean .  We have one of the same pet peeves .  It drives me crazy when I see grown women walking around with their cell phones planted on like a third ear texting and chatting about nothing.  Women at my job constantly do this

Hey Heruamen,

It is really bad down here in South Florida (probably everywhere). Most people here don't want to use a bluetooth. They want everyone to see them holding the phone to their ear, as if to prove they are popular and have someone to talk to. When they drive, they hold the cellphone in the left hand and start waving the free right around in the air! No wonder they are all over the road. Sadly, many younger Filipinas now walk around texting!

Dave

[piglett]

I don't see the point in texting, if i want to talk to someone i just call them
i can cover alot more ground in alot less time this way

piglett

[Ray]

She knows if on our wedding night I find out she is not a virgin then I will leave her. I will not tolerate a lie of that magnitude.

And if she finds out on your wedding night that YOU aren't a virgin, is she going to leave you? 

OK, it's time for a reality check.

Just how are you going to know for a fact that she isn't a virgin on your wedding night? Are you going to have her undergo a medical exam first? Sorry, but that isn't conclusive evidence.

The reality is that you have no way to ever know for sure if she has ever had sexual intercourse with a another man, unless perhaps she is pregnant.

The lack of an intact hymen is not evidence of intercourse. Now be honest. Did you really think that a lack of blood on the sheets is going to be all the “proof” you need? I don’t think you are that naïve.

And what is she admits that she pulled a Lewinski but she is still a virgin? Does that count?

And what if she was raped as a child by an uncle? Does that disqualify her as your mate? And please don’t try to tell me that it doesn’t happen in traditional Filipino families!

By telling her that you will leave her if she isn’t a virgin, you are practically forcing her to lie if she has to to keep the relationship together.

If you were to walk out on her on her wedding night in the Philippines, you might not make it out of the country alive. Do you really think dad or big brother would let you pull that stunt and get away with it? You better be able to run fast to the airport and have a ticket on hand!

Did you know that chastity issues are NOT grounds for annulment in the Philippines? I don’t know of any state in the US that grants an annulment for lack of virginity, do you?

That leaves you with divorce that may not be that easy depending on your state of residence.

Personally, I think you should seriously consider getting off of this whole virginity thing and making threats to walk out on her if she doesn’t bleed for you. It just sounds so darn silly!

Either you trust her or you don't. If you don't, then don't marry her. It's that simple...

Just my $.02

Ray

[Dave H]

I don't see the point in texting, if i want to talk to someone i just call them
i can cover alot more ground in alot less time this way

piglett

Hi piglett,

Texting is much cheaper in the Philippines...also 'social'! It is usually just the teenie bopper BS messages.  Incoming calls to cellphones are free there. I myself don't text, but call like you.

Dave

[bcc_1_2]

OK, it's time for a reality check.

Crap man it is way past time. And if anyone is reading this that ends up with a virgin there are things you can do as a couple so her first time doesn't really suck (unless virgnity is sought because of other issues then i guess that advice isn't needed HAHA). So respect your fiance, g/f, new wife. Plus speaking of Clinton... what happens when your perfect virginal wife doesn't want to give you a Clinton special?

[Ray]

... what happens when your perfect virginal wife doesn't want to give you a Clinton special?

Use tsokolate? 

[Cbear]

I don't have time to reply to all this nonsense but I'll start with this
My plan b and a plan c girls were not virgins, My first plan a girl was 28 and not a virgin, turns out she was a scammer.

So, I am obviously not looking for a virgin, this girl just happens to be one and if she is lying about it then it would be a trust issue. I will not tolerate lying.

Lets see, she has been to a GYN so if her hymen is busted she would know, or she can just ask next. Or she can get a mirror and look herself. Or on the wedding night I can look and see if it is there.

It is possible for a girl to be a virgin and have a broken hymen, but unlikely. So if its broken and she has an explanation, she needs to tell me know.

I know the laws in my state on divorce, I can do it for about 400 bucks if she is stuck there waiting for a k3.

Again it is a trust issue, not a virgin issue. I won't start a relationship with a major lie.

As for being a hypocrite, no, I haven't slept with anyone out of weddlock in 16 years.

[Bear]

I don't see the point in texting, if i want to talk to someone i just call them
i can cover alot more ground in alot less time this way

piglett

Texting is free or extremely cheap compared to calling.

The Bear Family

[Cbear]

Use tsokolate? 

As much as she likes chocolate, I am sure that will do the trick.

I am also sure she will enjoy her wedding night, that night will be for her, not me, I want her to remember it as the best night of her life.

BTW, she told me last night that she has never even kissed a boy before and that the one boy she used to like in high school was to scared to ask permission to court her. She now thinks he is a wimp.

[Dave H]

I only seem to marry virgins! Not planned...it just happens. I have NO COMPLAINTS! I teach them what I like and they haven't learned any bad habits from old boyfriends!   Besides, I usually go where no man has been before anyway! A little advice to guys marrying virgins...don't try to de-virginize them on the wedding night! Take it slow give it a few days to a week.

Dave

[Cbear]

Her and I do not normally talk about sex, just a little light teasing, nothing dirty. But today she brought up the subject telling me that a few of the woman in her classes with her are married and they talk about sex all the time. She mentioned that she was scared it was going to be painful. I didn't know what to say so I just told her that I would go slow, she is also afraid that she won't know what to do. LOL. I told her not to worry, it will come naturally.

I do believe she is telling me the truth. Her cel phone went in the water and is toast, I offered to get her one, she said no, her mother is buying her a new one this weekend. She  then gave me the number to her landline. How many homes in PI have landlines? Not many I think.

[Bear]

I've made so many posts lately I'm lost?  I know I posted on this subject but don't see my posts? 

Cbear - looks, weight, age and income are not determining factors for marriage in the RP.  Too many people put an American spin on this.  The world is not the American culture.  Age is seen as security, weight in men is seen as wealth, I have yet to understand why but I know girl who married a man who Is just plain dogbutt ugly and treats him like a God.  You're worried about nothing.  Honey says post a picture.

Sex - one day I'll go back to the R.P. and destroy those little turds who told Honey I would hurt her on the wedding night.  Looks like the same thing is happening to you.  I had literally prepared and spend months discussing it so she wouldn't be scared but like an idiot I told her the first time might not be too comfortable - shouldn't have because she referred to it later.  Well her Teacher and a bunch of students told her I was a 'big' Kano and I'd split her - she would be in pain and bleed.  Try to get that image out of your head if you're a young girl!  You got some work ahead of you.  Take lubricants, let her drink freely (encourage it), don't expect to do it all the first night.  Of course the look on their face the third or fourth time when they first realize they had nothing to worry about will never leave you.

JM - you got to quit thinking that Kanos think this way so the world should.  It'll never happen.  And your just wrong.  Biggest problem America has is they expect the world to believe and react the same way we do for our reasons.

The Bear Family

[Howard]

Cbear,

Where do I begin?

Well, first of all, welcome aboard!  We’re always happy to have to posters here!

Secondly, I have to applaud your attitude.  Some of the guys are being pretty tough on you and you seem to be taking it all in stride.  That attitude will help you greatly in this endeavor.

Some advice… We like to think we are experts on International dating here, but the truth is that the only Filipinas we are experts on are the ones we have married.  I get a little frustrated when I see things like “Filipinas are…” or “All Filipinas…”.  The only thing all Filipinas are is from the Philippines.  Stereotypes and broad generalizations are just as wrong when you’re glorifying Filipinas as they are  when you’re slamming American Women.  Filipinas are women and they are individuals.  There are some things that can be said about Filipinos in general, but we are talking about Filipinos - men and women - just like the undesirable traits we tend to find in American Women can actually be found in most Americans.  American Women don’t have the market cornered on being bad spouses, nor is every Filipina the perfect wife.

Don’t be fooled by catch phrases like “Cultural Differences”.  That explanation is merely a crutch to help you justify things that you don’t want to be real.

An 18 year old is an 18 year old.  Sure, she maybe farther along in education than most 18 year olds are here.  The idea of “partying” doesn’t mean the same thing to her as it does to us.  Holding hands may be like heavy petting over here, but she is still 18.  She may be more responsible than many 18 year olds you see here, but she is no more mature.  If you think that your age gap will not create problems at some point and time, you’re fooling yourself.

Saying that you have communicated with young ladies that are not virgins, doesn’t change the fact that you place an alarmingly high value on her virginity, not being able to offer her the same value in return.  You want her to go to her doctor to confirm?  You’re gonna walk out on your wedding night if, after your examination, you decide she isn’t a virgin and doesn’t have a plausible explanation for you?  Would you really have that conversation?  Dude!  If you love her, it just shouldn’t matter that much.  I understand your whole “Lying” argument.  Obviously, that would be a big one!  It just sounds like she has so many other wonderful qualities that it belittles her that such a big deal is being made over her virginity.

The fact that you plan a long correspondence is to your advantage.  There is no replacement for volume of communication.  The more you talk, the more you get to know someone.  Taking your time is a very good thing, especially considering the age gap.  The next few years will change both you.  I hope that you only grow closer and that you guys are a success story on here.

I would recommend that you find a way to spend some time alone though.  Obviously not on your first trip, but on some trip after that.  The chaperone thing is a double edged sword and you will never truly know what she is like until the two of you are alone for a few days.  The chaperone, in many cases, are there just as much to keep your fiancé from blowing it as they are to keep her precious virginity in tact.  TRUST me on this.  If she loves you and her intentions are honorable, she will make her parents understand that the two of you need some alone time.  You will have to prove yourself worthy of her parent’s trust on early visits and her parents will have to trust her, but this is something you should push for.  Even if you decide it isn’t necessary, you should see if you can get permission to spend time alone.  It will prove something one way or the other.

I’m 42, my wife is 32, and I tend to side with JM and bcc, you need an old maid.  Someone in her mid to late twenties and ugly like Ray likes ‘em.   But hey, the heart wants what the heart wants.  If your intentions are honorable, more power to ya!  Good luck and Godspeed in your travels!

BTW… JM is correct saying Bear’s marriage is not the norm.  I have been doing this a long time and know and have known many Fil-AM couples, both in person and via the Internet.  Except in the case of Carl, Bear and one or two others, the bigger the age gap the greater the risk of failure.  I speak from experience and I’m sure Glen, Shadow and a few others will echo these facts.  I really hope that you end up a statistical anomaly and not heart broken or being the heart breaker.

If you have questions or if there is anything I can do to help, just email or contact me via this forum

Keep the Faith!

Howard

[Heruamen]

Howard just curious, how do you feel about the age gap of 41 yr old man and a 27 years old woman, or a 41 yr man and a 24 yr old woman?  your thoughts.  is that to big of a gap , in general.  14 and 17 year age gap.

[Howard]

Heruamen,

I was just getting ready to respond to your other post

When I met my wife she was 26, out of school and working to help support her family.  Her age never really mattered to me, because she such a breath of fresh air in comparison to any other young lady I talked to. 

In my opinion, based on my expirience, somewhere in your mid twenties age becomes nothing more than a number.  If your friend seems to be mature and you enjoy her company, I see no reason why either of those gaps would be alarming.  The main thing, in my opinion, is to find somene you really enjoy spending time with and focus on her until you don't enjoy spending time with her.  If that never happens, you're gonna have a happy life

Because their ages are mid twenties, I'd say age gap isn't an issue in itself

Keep the Faith!

Howard

[Cbear]

Howard, I want to reply about this virginity thing. The only reason I am putting a high priority on it is because she has made it a priority. Our courtship revolves around me not touching her till were married. (fine with by the way, even if she wasn't a virgin)

The problem I am going to have if I find out she is lying is that she lied in the first place and can't be trusted. My ex lied all the time. I will not tolerate it in my marriage. Period, no lying. So this would be a big deal breaker since she has made such a big deal out of it.

I do believe her, Every thing she has told me to date has been the truth.

The fact is if she came to me now and said, I have been lying about this then we could discuss it and continue the relationship. However if she is lying and I don't find out till my wedding night then it is a deal breaker. But I think she is telling the truth.

I also agree there will be problems because of the age difference. But one advantage we have is that her parents have the same age gap, she has lived this at home so she already understands more about it than I do. She is willing to take the risk and make it work, so am I.

All that said, her family is warming up a bit. Her mother keeps asking her about me after we talk now and has accepted the fact that we talk everyday. Her mother and her will pick me up at the airport when I visit.

I also agree that I should have some alone time with her, but I will wait on that until a future trip. I don't want to push her boundaries to fast. I am sure after the family gets to know me, they will allow us some time together.

And again, marriage is at least 2 years away. So we have plenty of time to find out where the bumps in the road are. LOL She is a great girl. I really hope it works out with her.

[Bear]

Howard and Bcc and JM can disagree all they want but with the exception of one guy who intentionally married girls for their virginity and then divorced them 2 years later I know of not one divorce because of age.  Nor am I aware of marital problems from same with Filipinas.  I currently hang with about 7-8 families all like me with age differences from 10 to mine 26 apart and not one of us are having a problem.   Honey and her online crowd agree too, age is not a problem for Filipinas generally - of course there are exceptions but be smart and ask questions and you'll never have a problem with it.

The Bear Family

[Howard]

Bear,

So of the ones we, you and I, know about, three on this board with smaller age gaps, but still marrying girls less than 20, you think age had nothing to do with the failures?  Maybe my memory doesn't serve me as well as yours does  

Even an age gap of 15 years is not an age gap of 26 years, but really I think I am not getting my point across.  It's not about the age gap, in my opinion, as much as it is the AGE. 

I know Honey is an exception, I remember when you were fasting and praying.  All 18 year old Filipinas are not like Honey was, she is an exceptional young lady for any age and I know you know how lucky you are.

I guess, what I am trying to say on the age issue is, unless you are in your twenties - and I am being liberal, because I really think 25 or younger - an 18 year old is just too young.

I don't know brother, maybe my opinion it too skewed in the other direction from my own expiriences.  I'm just trying to get another opinion out there

Give my best to your lovely wife

Keep the Faith!

H

[Bear]

If you were talking about AWs I'd agree.  How many young Filipinas do you know who have made decisions about being married to older AMs that they didn't stick with?  I've seen jerks abuse and beat 'stupidettes' and watch that awesome thing defend his 'right'(?) to do it!  How about 'George'!  I know sluts too who used guys to get here but once married most Filipinas stick it out!  I have not had to deal with odd fads or music I can't stand out trends I find objectionable because Honey wants to be married.  She tries to be a wife and not some 'independant' girl - something no AW would ever consider.  I was so self-concious about this at first - just like all of y'all are saying now and it just didn't pan out.  My wife has actually reassured me many of times we aren't the oldest couple she knows of and all of them have children.  I just can say I know of a couple who has failed because of age differences.

Like all things any differences in marriage is work but all marriage is work.  Just depends on how bad you want it.  Will there be problems - only a 'stupid' doesn't think so.  Were/are there disagreements that have occured with Honey and I that might have indicated experience by age differences - many, and I was eventually supported and appreciated because I did just like she expected, kept her safe and secure.  Have I had to let her be 'young' (meaning make immature mistakes), often, because she needs to learn just like I do/did.  I'm there to support her when she needs it or end it if it becomes a problem for the 'family'.  We've had a few arguements but its just normal life and probably fewer than most people. This is about you and yours not them and theirs - do what right for those you are responsible for and make damn sure of it.  Que sera, sera.  Attitude dudes, attitude.  They love to see that confidance and security it  represents.

The Bear FAMILY (its an attitude)

[Howard]

Bear,

I don't wanna argue with you, I love you!

The fact that you have not had to deal with the potential negatives, does not mean that someone else won't.

I personally know of 3 guys who married under 20 Filipinas and their marriages failed mostly because there was no common ground to settle on, due in large part to their age/age differences.

I also know 5 American - American couples who married when the young lady was 20 or younger that are still going strong 20+ years later.  One of those couples just celebrated thier 40th wedding anniversary.  Common thread?  The guys were plain old dudes like you and I and the women, American women, are completly comitted to the marriage.

As for the rest of it, I couldn't agree with you more... A good marriage takes work, but it can be the most rewarding labor of all, if you get it right

Keep the Faith!

H