Environment in Cali... Real estate in Colombia

[bcc_1_2]

Ok. I know we got a bunch of holidays going on right now so I thought I'd post this a little early before my trip so I can get some responses before I go down. Question one is on the safety and overall environment of cali. I've read threads from years ago that suggest cali might be the most dangerous city in the western hemisphere. What I'm wondering is what is the exact situation now and when I'll be going down in winter 2009? I'm planning not to walk around outside and take taxis all over but I am curious as to exactly how Cali is. Is it still the same as those like Pete E that described it back in say 2002? Other than that I'm a picky eater. Many places you could reccommend to a picky gringo? I don't like chinese and would prefer to know of some places that serve the local cuisine and also american cusine. LOL I want to eat at places that guys went to and didn't get sick.

Other than that I've got a question on real estate. It really is a premature question as I'm not even dating a girl down there. However instead of owning some big house I'd prefer to own a condo here in the USA and one down in Colombia. I've done some research online just to see whats out there. My obvious guess is the prices posted on these english websites are "gringo prices" and the only way to get a good deal is to have your lady and those from the area work out a deal.

I suppose my question is how much markup do you think is in the real estate down there. Despite wanting to chica hunt in Cali I'd probably prefer to own a condo on the beach in the tourist or north beach zones of Cartagena. Of course I found some expensive beach side condos (penthouses even) but I also thought even these inflated prices were a lot cheaper than buying a loft (condo) here in the USA. I saw 2 bedrooms with ocean views as low as 80k to 180k (plus). Other than that I wonder if chica hunting in Cali and real estate hunting in Cartagena might be a problem with the chicas.

Again its premature as I'm only going down to date on this next trip. However I do wonder if some of you experts could provide your thoughts on both topics.

[michaelb]

My wife is visiting in Cali right now. She says the place has gone to hell since her last visit (about 2 years ago). She had always wanted us to move there when I retire, but now she says no way, too dangerous. She's literally scared to go from the house to the grocery, this in the barrio where she had lived several years without any problem before coming up here to be with me. They may (or may not) have the FARC and narcotraficantes on the run, but she says the common street crime has got really out of hand.

[Kiltboy1]

I heard the same too that things have gone downhill due to many factors IE, economy, pyrimid scandle and FARC, But hands down Caracas Venezuela is the most dangerous country in the western hemisphere.

KB

[bcc_1_2]

Thanks guys. I figured I was going to hear it was as dangerous as ever. I'm probably booked in the best hotel (or darn near) they have and I'm sure me and wingman will take taxis everywhere and not walk the streets BUT this is good to know.

My only real worry at this point is getting through to the wingman that this isn't a regular vacation or even Jaco Beach or the suburbs in San Jose. Basically no walking around and watch your ass type of deal.

I think I can get that conveyed to him. My thinking has kinda been like Michaelb's wife. I'd like to own a condo in Colombia but I just can't imagine doing it in Cali Or inviting any family members down either. I am a little worried how that might sound to a novia whose from Cali. Umm yea, I'd like to get a condo in Colombia but in Cartagena.

[sabound]

before you buy anywhere , why don't you try renting a place that you like first . Then you can see what it is like . I'm not so sure that Buying is the best on your return. 

there are a few here that will defend Cali to there death , but it is very dangerous . Just because something may have not happened to them yet , it will one day . When they are least expecting it .   

[Kiltboy1]

And as far as Cartagena, well, prepare to pay top dollar, no deals there. 2002-03, deals, now it is on the "A" list of Hollywood, Cruise Lines and Rich Europa's. I could have bought a oceanfront  2BR in Laguito in 2002 for 40K. Same one now is 150K. But there will be a bubble burst eventually, but not for some time.

KB

[Calipro]

Thanks guys. I figured I was going to hear it was as dangerous as ever. I'm probably booked in the best hotel (or darn near) they have and I'm sure me and wingman will take taxis everywhere and not walk the streets BUT this is good to know.

My only real worry at this point is getting through to the wingman that this isn't a regular vacation or even Jaco Beach or the suburbs in San Jose. Basically no walking around and watch your ass type of deal.

I think I can get that conveyed to him. My thinking has kinda been like Michaelb's wife. I'd like to own a condo in Colombia but I just can't imagine doing it in Cali Or inviting any family members down either. I am a little worried how that might sound to a novia whose from Cali. Umm yea, I'd like to get a condo in Colombia but in Cartagena.

I just got back from a month in Cali and had a great time as always.
I highly recomend the new club called Mango Biche just north of my all time favorite club LoLas.

I looked at a number of new properties in Cali but there are a few steals on the used housing market.

Security is just not an issue for me in Cali mainly because I purchased a car (no more taxis) and I only hang in the nicest clubs and barrios.

[bcc_1_2]

And as far as Cartagena, well, prepare to pay top dollar, no deals there. 2002-03, deals, now it is on the "A" list of Hollywood, Cruise Lines and Rich Europa's. I could have bought a oceanfront  2BR in Laguito in 2002 for 40K. Same one now is 150K. But there will be a bubble burst eventually, but not for some time.

KB

I hear ya KB. I'm on the chica hunt and the condo hunt surely would be off in the distance for me. I was looking at one building online that was by the Hilton in Cartagena and the condos in that building looked pretty decent online and I think the price range was like 80k to 120k if I remember. Just got the impression that once you get past the gringo pricing you could get a 2BR well below 100k. I suppose BAQ and Santa Marta are worth looking at. I heard about a lake near Cali too. That I'd like to get out and see. And I'm not looking at it as an investment or anything. I'd just want to find what I want and just keep it and use it as I need.

[sabound]

calipro just because you bought a car does not insure your safety . Vignola was in his own car and what happened to him , if anything you are now more of a target because now they know what you drive you now have placed a target on your back . It does not matter where you " hang" , thieves , robbers or farc does not care ... they will get you whenever they want .... it is there call not yours ... may God bless you anyway .   

[Calipro]

calipro just because you bought a car does not insure your safety . Vignola was in his own car and what happened to him , if anything you are now more of a target because now they know what you drive you now have placed a target on your back . It does not matter where you " hang" , thieves , robbers or farc does not care ... they will get you whenever they want .... it is there call not yours ... may God bless you anyway .   

Well I do believe that having your own car does lessen your chances of getting robbed because it seems that more than a few taxi drivers in Cali are in the business of setting people up to get robbed.

The guys that killed Vignola were not thieves, robbers nor were they FARC. Seems pretty clear someone paid to have him killed.

I've been traveling to Cali for 12 years now and haven't had anyone try to rob me yet.....however I did have a guy pull out a gun on me in traffic here in phoenix a couple of months ago. So I know anything can happen at anytime no matter were you are.

[Kiltboy1]

The Condo I thought about purchasing was in a building next to the Hilton and a good friend of mine purchased it after I passed on the deal. He bought for 40K, gutted it and put 20K into it and has turned down several offers of 150K because he enjoys coming there to vacation. As far a Cali goes, I know Calipro has a good sense for the city , but I would not buy a car not because of putting me at greater risk for danger, but because there are soooo xoxoxoxox crazy the way they try to drive, that I would get killed in an accident.

[Calipro]

The Condo I thought about purchasing was in a building next to the Hilton and a good friend of mine purchased it after I passed on the deal. He bought for 40K, gutted it and put 20K into it and has turned down several offers of 150K because he enjoys coming there to vacation. As far a Cali goes, I know Calipro has a good sense for the city , but I would not buy a car not because of putting me at greater risk for danger, but because there are soooo xoxoxoxox crazy the way they try to drive, that I would get killed in an accident.

I don't worry about getting in an accident in Cali....seems my naturally agressive instincts kick in on the road and I do just fine.

One thing that has helped me get around Cali is the new GPS device that just came out.

www.findercolombia.com

It has turn by turn directions to all of Cali, Medellin and Bogota.

Not quite as easy as using a GARMEN but pretty close.

[sabound]

since you seem to like Cali so much and are in complete denial about how dangerous it is , could I suggest to you a job at the City of Commerce of Cali . They sure could use someone like you to increase there tourist industry !!!!

[Calipro]

since you seem to like Cali so much and are in complete denial about how dangerous it is , could I suggest to you a job at the City of Commerce of Cali . They sure could use someone like you to increase there tourist industry !!!!

Like Cali? Hell I love Cali. After 12 years of traveling there and a literally years spent living there and can say that there is no place I'd rather be.

There are nicer cities in Colombia...Medellin is hands down a more beautiful city than Cali but it just isn't home to me like Cali and it all boils down to the people of Cali and Calenas in particular.

You can certainly find trouble in Cali or any large city in the world for that matter if you don't know what you are doing or where you are going.

I have no idea what happend to you to give you such a negative impression of Cali...but if you feel up to it tell us your story and perhaps I can give you some pointers on how to avoid similar problems in the future.

If you don't know where to go or what to do check out this website:  http://cali.2night.com/home

Check out the galery of photos for nice places to hang out in Cali...you won't find any of them on Ave. Sexta.

Take care and remember I'm here to help.

Another website dedicated to the night life in Cali that I like: http://www.calibuenanota.com/GENTE/

[Zon]

Cali is more dangerous AND more safe than I thought it was going to be.  I have been here now since October. 

I have met CaliPro - great guy, very very helpful to any gringo.

Cali is whatever you want it to be.  I went out last night and did not come home until 8 AM.  Beautiful women?  I meet so many on any given day, I not even jazzed up about it.

Bottom Line - I don't deserve Cali. But it is here for me (and you too).  BUT, you have to be smart - that's for sure.

[sabound]

Top 5 Most Dangerous Countries in the World
 

1. Colombia. Infamous for its guerillas, illegal cocaine "industry", and corrupt government, no wonder Colombia ranks as "The Most Dangerous Country in the World". Bombings targeting civilians are common and terrorism is a way of life for most citizens who have grown accustomed to the chaos. It has a high rating for kidnappings with ransoms, with businesspeople, tourists, journalists, and scientists being frequent targets, though no one is actually excluded from kidnappings. Hot spots include ATMs, taxis, restaurants, and simply walking down the street. Those who try to resist robberies usually get shot and killed. Bogota, Baranquilla,Cali,Cartagena, and Medellin are statistically categorized as the most dangerous cities, with Medellin holding the title of the Drug Capital and "Most Dangerous City in the World." With 11 murders a day in a city of merely 2 million, its murder rates is quintupled that of New York City. In recent years, murders rates in Colombia have dropped, but not enough to pass the title to South Africa. Though what was previously mentioned may be misinformation, as critics have accused President Uribe of manipulating the crime date, making Colombia seem safer than it really is. What is behind all the heinous crimes? An expanding drug market and a plethora of terrorist groups, and a government that does nothing about it. Colombia averages 47 murders a day in a nation of 45 million, giving it the crown of "Most Dangerous".

[soltero]

Top 5 Most Dangerous Countries in the World
 

1. Colombia. Infamous for its guerillas, illegal cocaine "industry", and corrupt government, no wonder Colombia ranks as "The Most Dangerous Country in the World". Bombings targeting civilians are common and terrorism is a way of life for most citizens who have grown accustomed to the chaos. It has a high rating for kidnappings with ransoms, with businesspeople, tourists, journalists, and scientists being frequent targets, though no one is actually excluded from kidnappings. Hot spots include ATMs, taxis, restaurants, and simply walking down the street. Those who try to resist robberies usually get shot and killed. Bogota, Baranquilla,Cali,Cartagena, and Medellin are statistically categorized as the most dangerous cities, with Medellin holding the title of the Drug Capital and "Most Dangerous City in the World." With 11 murders a day in a city of merely 2 million, its murder rates is quintupled that of New York City. In recent years, murders rates in Colombia have dropped, but not enough to pass the title to South Africa. Though what was previously mentioned may be misinformation, as critics have accused President Uribe of manipulating the crime date, making Colombia seem safer than it really is. What is behind all the heinous crimes? An expanding drug market and a plethora of terrorist groups, and a government that does nothing about it. Colombia averages 47 murders a day in a nation of 45 million, giving it the crown of "Most Dangerous".

Sounds GREAT! I can't wait to get back!!!  Please keep this up, though, and steer as many cowering misfits away as you can! 

[Calipro]

Top 5 Most Dangerous Countries in the World
 

1. Colombia. Infamous for its guerillas, illegal cocaine "industry", and corrupt government, no wonder Colombia ranks as "The Most Dangerous Country in the World". Bombings targeting civilians are common and terrorism is a way of life for most citizens who have grown accustomed to the chaos. It has a high rating for kidnappings with ransoms, with businesspeople, tourists, journalists, and scientists being frequent targets, though no one is actually excluded from kidnappings. Hot spots include ATMs, taxis, restaurants, and simply walking down the street. Those who try to resist robberies usually get shot and killed. Bogota, Baranquilla,Cali,Cartagena, and Medellin are statistically categorized as the most dangerous cities, with Medellin holding the title of the Drug Capital and "Most Dangerous City in the World." With 11 murders a day in a city of merely 2 million, its murder rates is quintupled that of New York City. In recent years, murders rates in Colombia have dropped, but not enough to pass the title to South Africa. Though what was previously mentioned may be misinformation, as critics have accused President Uribe of manipulating the crime date, making Colombia seem safer than it really is. What is behind all the heinous crimes? An expanding drug market and a plethora of terrorist groups, and a government that does nothing about it. Colombia averages 47 murders a day in a nation of 45 million, giving it the crown of "Most Dangerous".

I see you haven't been to Colombia yet...hehehe !!!

[Zon]

I don't mind the cowering as much as the misfits.

And why do ALL of them walk around with a big, stupid, "kiss me I'm an Americano" smile on their face?

I spend the first 10 minutes of any new relationship trying to distance myself from the negative steriotypes.

(just keeping it real)

[utopiacowboy]

What absolute nonsense! Medellin had 770 homicides in 2007about 2 a day. The number that the poster is talking about goes back to 2002 the peak year for homicides in Medellin. I went in 2003 and it wasn't nearly as safe as it is now. If you haven't got the balls maybe Colombian women are not for you.

[bcc_1_2]

Sabond if you are trying to make a point I'd use years and cite a source to prove actual data especially with a country that is changing so quickly over the past years and decades.

I'm gonna watch my ass, but I'm still going.

[utopiacowboy]

Check it out for yourself. These are the homicide rates per 100,000 inhabitants for the city of Medellin from the city's web site: http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:RhJsJaLnWM4J:www.medellin.gov.co/irj/go/km/docs/EstadisticasGobierno/tasa872008.pdf+%2Bmedellin+%2Bhomicidios&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

[bcc_1_2]

Aright all, me and the wingman are back from Cali. Not afraid to fly but its not something I enjoy. My head always feels weird and my ears pop (yea I'm constantly chewing gum on the plane to try and prevent this). After a few hours though I always shake it off.  The bargain we got on our hotel was awesome and it was fairly close to Chipichape (spelling?) and the wingman prefers this lodging but in the future I'd say it would have been nice to be as close as possible to chipichape. That and the airport is a long ass taxi ride.

Everything we did was hotel reccommended including the taxis. We both stayed off the streets and it was obvious just from the looks we got that we were fish out of the water. This is even more so than in Costa Rica because they are get a lot of tourists.

As for the ladies. Hot as [snip]. Are they approachable? Umm they approach you. There is just no way you can sort them all out in a little over a week. But I suppose that's a good thing. I will warn you all though that if you feel that way you might have to slow some of these ladies down as it's not fair to lead them on.

What really threw me for a loop was that by far the hottest chick I met (creamy skin, raven hair... curves you just can't explain... rockin bod) had a kid. She was a few years younger than me, but completely grown up and understands reality. Women with kids aren't exactly on my radar.

You really don't (or at least we didn't) need any agency help meeting chicas ([snip] just go to the mall) but if you have some down time and want to use an agency go for it. The main thing you want to do is just pay them to set up the date (pay when she shows) and then you just cut the agency out of anything else. Agency girls are just a small part of the overall "hot chica" population so if you spend all your time on a package you might be missing out on a lot.

Anyways we didn't get mugged or anything and we weren't walking around outside really at all. We didn't do a lot of things at the same time either as we didn't want to telegraph where we were going to be all the time. The one thing I noted is that what others have already posted on here. Dating the women is great, but then coming back all the time after you settled down might really suck. Never been to Cartagena, but it sounds like other than some annoying vendors I might like that city better from a tourist stand point. From a chica standpoint Cali rocks though. I kinda had an idea though from what everyone else said. My wingman was taken aback by it more. I told him about it though ahead of time. He's a little younger than me, but he's recently out of a relationship of a couple of years. From what I could see it clearly wasn't a compatible relationship but because she was attractive I think he stayed with her longer than I thought he should. Anyways I doubt that will happen with him again now.


Really don't want to post a long and detailed trip report for everyone to dissect, but I did just want to let ya all know I'm back and thanks for the help.

[sabound]

you would like some stats ?

well US pop. 305,745,000

Colombia pop.  44,760,000

bombs in the last 2 weeks in the US .... NONE .... in Colombia  ... TWO  .... this is not rocket science . we have 7 times the population of Colombia and NO bombs ... and you want to argue what is safe ? please 

[sabound]

and for UC ... please ask your wife what is what like back in the late 90's when they had biggest taxie scam going on in your wifes city . half of all taxie drivers were in on it and every law enforcement agencie was trying to figure out how to break it !