Cali mostly, 2nd trip in 3 months

[utopiacowboy]

It can be frustrating especially when you feel that you aren't making any progress. I used to sound like a four or five year old kid because I only knew the present tense. I'd say things like "I go to the store tomorrow" or "I go to the store yesterday". Sure people understand you but you do sound retarded. Eventually I moved on to the other verb tenses but it took a while. At first you really have to spend a lot of time just increasing your vocabulary.  After speaking and listening to Spanish in Colombia all day I used to have a headache at the end of the day. I would watch reruns of Seinfeld on TV just so I wouldn't have to think in Spanish. Little by little you'll get there.

[Zon]

Been here for about a month now, and much has changed to me.  Most notably safety and beauty.

Safety first: Colombia has a VERY violent past.  It is very violent today too.  There are many neighborhoods where people are killed for nothing everyday.  Hold no false illusions: this is a place where consequences live. 

As stated upthread, there is more wealth that I anticipated too.  There are two worlds in Colombia that do not meet - the rich and the poor.  The nicer areas (the ones where tourists are most likely to go) are safer than I anticipated.  The most common danger in these locations for an Americano is being taken advantage of, financially.

I stay in very nice places, and in common neighborhoods,  I do not feel in as much danger as I did the first several weeks I lived here.  I am AWARE of risks always; you have to be.  But, my point is that instead of the entire city - outside the tourists areas - looking dangerous, I am able now to filter better. Everything becomes more normal.

Beauty Second:  What would happen to the perception of beauty - how you value it - if it were common?  You tend to take it for granted ( in contrast with the US where any woman above a 6 is worthy of a second look).  This could be a good or bad thing for me.  It is possible I could become increasingly selective (which would be bad ... I am already too much so).  Or, I could get over the beuaty thing and look more at the inside of a person.  We will see.

[gringoman]

I find Rivardco, a fascinating persona.

[Zon]

I'll take fascinating.  And thanks Gringoman. I was beginning to think I was here all alone.

[gringoman]

Please elaborate more on the socio/economic classes that exist in Colombia.  You know in the US, people and rights are more equal.

Upper class Colombianas, I think, are not allowed to even associate with a lower class chico, heaven forbid marry.
ie- a gringo would marry the sales clerk , but the Colombian man, she would just be a play thing.

And I cannot explain, why there are so many divorces and disfunctional familes in Colombia.  The father is always missing, and its OK in Colombia.

I assume a club named Biao no longer exist, now called the Jungle?  next block down from club Prago.  Biao was great in its heyday, narco girls galore!!!


PS-  Ha, Who is the blonde in your photo?

[utopiacowboy]

"Upper class Colombianas, I think, are not allowed to even associate with a lower class chico, heaven forbid marry.
ie- a gringo would marry the sales clerk , but the Colombian man, she would just be a play thing."

Quite true. It's a mystery to me why gringos go for the poor barrio girls myself.

[Zon]

My dental work will be done today, and I am very happy about that!  I love cafe con leche. I was told ayer I can not have it without a straw for 90 days.  My business deal got done - FINALLY.  Alas, it will require more work than I would have liked. The world is changing and nothing is for certain.

And as to the very important stuff - the girl is the photo is Teagan Presly - Pick up January's issue of Penthouse - you will see alot of her.  (I used that as my avatar as evidence ... to stop some BS that arose as a result of some claims and representation I made of myself)

I will have the opportunity to talk much more about the classes over the next several weeks.

I met Margarita at a concert two weeks ago.  She is not a poor girl, but she is not in the upper class either.  We like each other alot without saying words.  She does not speak any English ... but, like I said chemistry solves these problems  - in the short run.  She is 24.  A graduate o college.  I presume she is more liberal and modern because of the environment in which we met, and the way we behaved with each other.

And then there is Marisoles.  Part Model / part MBA.  I met her at the bank yesterday and she speaks pocito English.  She has studied in the US.  She is 25 years of age.  It seems she is very proper, but one can not know for sure.  No fireworks when we met, but I do think about her more than I care to admit.

(Would that not be the ultimate Good / Bad thing.  To finally build a life - a heaven surrounded by beautiful woman ... and be personally able to live this life at full speed - no easy task at my age.  ONLY THEN, to fall in love?  Let us hope I have learned from these past 3 years!)

I will go out with both girls this weekend. Life is good.

[gringoman]

Ok Rivardco , look forward to more posts.

From what I have seen so far, Looks like you have already blown PDiddy out of the park, and you have done it at a much younger age.

[Zon]

Don't know who PDiddy is.  But I have bent over backward NOT to emphasize how I have lived this year. It is amazing the life I had a couple of years ago versus my life today.  I had a short career in politics; started a couple of business; had another career in luxury art and design (New York; Miami; LA); but the things I have put together this year beats them all.

I don't think I ought to stray off topic.  Those things have no relevance to this thread. The affect would probably be me coming  off as self serving and egotistical.  Not my intention.

The only reason I comment now is to give testament to how a man's life can DRAMATICALLY change if he so desires.  The most surprising thing is that I am just a "normal guy."  A few years ago, I was aging in my habits faster than my age - in bed at 10:30, at work often at 5:30. Never did I go out on the town.  I thought those days were far behind me.  And, within a year everything changed ... one thing lead to another and another and another.

I have become an expert on re-invention .... re-inventing life.

[Zon]

Developing conclusions:

I have been here long enough now where I have begun to create natural relationship. These are the types of relationships that happen spontaneously through the natural course of life. These have added to my perspective, especially as I create my own opinions about Colombia regarding women, culture, and safety.

Guys, there are so many beautiful and nice women in this country it is like begin on a different planet. Feelings of interest, attraction, and excitement are not hidden as in the US. If the US has an infinitely different- and better -financial economy ... then Colombia has an infinitely different - and better - mating economy.

I would very much encourage men to design a life that accommodates prolonged visits. Only then, can you see what I have begun to see. If not, you are forced to use agencies and internet. Not totally bad. BUT, I KNOW now something I only assumed before. The popular girls talk to many many men - some are OK, most are on the pathetic side. Let's take the pathetic first. I say pathetic because these Americanos have created an unfavorable stereotype of a man looking to get married in one week, naive, and overly aggressive.

I would guess that 30% of the Americanos I have met are 55 - 70 years of age, and looking for a 21 year old model to be his wife. These guys do not bridge the age gap at all. Their life style is not in agreement with an average 20 year old woman. There opinions of life are strict and ridged. The woman is an object that must conform. These guys want sex the first visit (why not? They are getting married ... right? Mostly, they get it) they give money and financial support, and offer more in the future. Let's be honest and nonjudgmental: It would take an uncommon person to be in DIRE conditions and not accept. Most popular women accept gifts from multiple men. These men may think they have something much more true than in reality exists. The affect is that the woman learns to be opportunistic. Maybe she could fall in love for real, and because of her past value all the more a good relationship, maybe not.

I would guess another 30% of he guys that come here are in the same age bracket as above, with the same values and habits. But these guys are realists and see the transaction at work honestly.

Then, there are another 30% that are really nice guys coming from a variety of levels of wealth and education that are sincere and looking to find a Colombian wife with only the best of intentions. These guys frankly stretch their league and age gaps which would be NO PROBLEM if they decided to live in Colombian, Panama, Dominican Republic, or Costa Rica. But by taking these ladies back in the US as a wife? I don't know. I suspect a high divorce rate even though all parties enter into the agreement with the best of intentions.

I lost 10% along the way?!? Well, I'm no mathematician. This must be the guys that come here and follow advice and use their own good judgement. 

Regarding safety: If is different for a gringo to live in Colombia than to just visit. Visitors have no problem. BUT and I mean BIG BUT!!!!!!!!!!!! You better have a guide, and one that is recommended by others. DO NOT COME HERE ON A LARK by yourself without knowing Spanish, and without knowing the city you are visiting. That would be unwise.

I have met and deal with a variety of personas. Not one class or the other. I suspect some guys I know are rough - very very rough. One couple, who has been very kind to me, had me over for diner last night. They are from a small town and have done very well financially with little education and formal business opportunity as far as I can see. They were telling me of the beautiful small town they came from. I said that I was starting to get by with my Gringo Spanish.  I asked their advise if I could visit this area of Colombia without concern. They said (now get this), "of course! It is perfectly safe. Just don't go alone." I laughed and brought to condition to their attention. They looked at me like grow up! The man said I always carry a pistol with me. ( I expected this. He also takes an assistant with him all the time for every small errand). But his lovely wife chimed in, "I have a pistol too."   O-K-A-Y

I have come to a point where I feel very safe all the time. BUT I have to remind myself, that because I have routines, I am a target. When I meet new people (all are too friendly from the first because I am from the US), I have to keep all the "what ifs" in my mind, so as not to put myself in a vulnerable situation.  By comparison, I never felt this way in the DR (except in bad areas of Santa Domingo), and areas were just as poor ... but there was a contentment in those people I do not see here.

Although I will remain in Cali until Dec 20, and spend a great deal of time in Colombia over the next 3 - 6 months, I will NOT continue this thread as a diary, so I am ready to close now.  All things that happen to me from here on out belong to a different subject matter.

If anyone has specific questions, just give me a PM. 

I am not doing a commercial favor for a friend ... I am doing newbies a BIG favor by giving my guides contact information below.  I would not use anyone else in Cali other than Juan Carlos.  He is well known by many vets on the board.  He is 100% solid    email is  jcrivera2003@hotmail.com

[soltero]

Continue!!! I haven't been commenting as I find myself in agreement with overall what you have been saying, but I was hoping that you would continue this thread the entire time you are there this visit, however long that takes. You are providing some very excellent insight firsthand that will be very beneficial and all in one place for newbies to peruse when they get the time. I see this as being a one stop shop for a crash course into the culture surrounding Cali and Colombia in general (although different areas have a different vibe).

Again, I hope that you will keep this going for as long as you can...

[utopiacowboy]

I have been reading and mostly agreeing with your observations as well. I agree with Soltero about continuing the thread.

[singlefather no more]

Rivardco,

Keep to going.. This is a fantastic thread and very interesting.. I like your writing style.. Keep it coming as you make us feel we are with you there in Cali..

All the best,

singlefather

..

[drell283]

Rivardco,

I am one of those newbies of which Soltero speaks. I usually pay a lot of attention to his posts. If it wasn't for him I would probably have gotten screwed over in Costa Rica. So I grew a pair and I am currently in Bogota waiting on my next meeting.

Everyone agrees with you so I take your posts seriously and try to learn from them. I have been sticking to my own age group and not stretching my league, at least too much. You can't help that because they are just too damn good looking. I don't feel that I have met any prepagos so far. I have had to push cab fare on some of them. I don't think it's right for them to pay both ways to meet me. One was going to take the bus at 9:00 PM. I sure as heck wouldn't take a bus at 9:00 in St. Louis, I wouldn't expect her to do so in Bogota.

 I need your posts to understand a little more of why they are interested in an American and hopefully me. Faithful, loyal, and economically stable sound easy enough for me to provide. Your posts help explain why that is so hard to find. Please post more about the attitudes of Colombian men to help me understand the why.

All the women I have met so far have been so sweet and so pretty. My plan is to hopefully leave here with 4 or 5 that I continue to talk/email with until I come back again in January. I have a membership at an agency and will supplement my next trip with more introductions should nothing come to fruition with those 4 or 5. Who knows, maybe the number will be more or less when I leave. I still have 7 more introductions and have 3 that I will continue to correspond with.

Emphasis on learning Spanish live everyone says. I had missed opportunities when I couldn't communicate effectively. Learn it, live it, love it.

[Zon]

Cool.  I enjoy condensing my thoughts to writing every once in a while.  Es gusto es mio.

Now  that the subject matter will move beyond the novice stuff surrounding Colombian travel and the chick scene.  A reintroduction is probably best. 

A little background: I went through a 13 divorce 2 years ago.  I was amazed and the changes and craziness I desired.  I did not partake.  Rather, I sort of studied myself.  I was cautious.  I am a marketer and promoter.  I reasoned that 1 million divorced men are going through the same thing.  I started formalizing an area of marketing I call Divorce Marketing.  What do all safety tests have in common?  A saftey test dumby.  I became a saftey test dumby.   To my great surprise, after I dusted off my 44 year old ass, I still had it?!?!?  I quickly became stand out in my aptitude for the single scene.

I developed a business nucleous and began forming information based busiensses. Divorce; Adult Content Creation; Mid Life Crisis.  I handle the internet marketing and seminar creation for these campaigns.

This is all happened pretty fast.  One thing I was VERY sure of is I did not want the real me to be a public figure for these issues.  I think that life is lived in chapters and phases.  I do not want one to compromise the other.   These days, I live full speed, occassionally high profile.  Therefore, for the past year an a half, I have been introducing myself as "Zon Zon."  That's right, you have not lived until you have shook an obvious drug dealer's hand after accidentally dancing with his girl ... and say in gringo spanish, "Lo muy siento! Mi nombre es Zon Zon." 

Accrodingly a new avatar:  Its my business card with out the logo.  Image of sexy woman's mouth, because I love them. Blue stamp of a prirate skull ... went through a pirate phase in the summer (got a little dangerous. And the white tiger, because I have earned the commentary of the loco blanco tigre honestly.   

So, as I continue this post, I will write without the temperate character that I have maintained since the beginning.   Since I signed on to this board, I have tried to ask serious questions and offer serious observations ... all with an awareness of my limited perspective.  From now on, I will write a little more real ... a little less reasoned.  (Don't worry. I will not use foul language.)

Tonight I am going out clubing in Cali.  I went to a pretty big party a couple of weeks ago, I made some popular friends.  These things are like running a marathon.  Starts at midnight goes until sun comes up.  You meet many pretty girls, but you are not in the shape to do anything about it.  Forget talking.  In these very modern environments, once you are in the club, you are with no one ... you are with everyone.  Good Times.

I will begin to meet many many women over the next several weeks.  I have tried to tend to my knitting until the business deals where complete.   

To complete this introduction, although I travel in and out of circles that some find objectionable,  I maintain an observer's mentality.  It is fascinating NOT to judge.  I have not always been like this.  I have been in some pretty crazy situations over the last year (One night I was in a jacuzzi with 6 porn stars)  What has all this done to me? Believe it or not, it has made me fantasize less, and a little more conservative in practice.  There may be a lesson there for everyone.

Anyway, nice to meet you again.  Hope you guys don't mind the candor.  Without it, these posts have far less relevance.

I Am Zon Zon 

[gringoman]

Please explain why there now appears so many wealthy people in Colombia, then let us say 5 years ago, or even 3 years ago.
I was amazed by all the new cars in Cali, you know in US, a Toyota Landcruiser is quite expensive, but my God , they are everywhere in Cali, Bogota, Medelln.

[drell283]

Zon-Zon,

In regards to one of your earlier posts about what effect being surround by so many beutiful women may have on you. Now that I am in Bogota meeting and seeing so many beutiful women, it makes it easier to get past looks and focus on the person. Have you noticed an effect yet?

[Zon]

I have just rented a GREAT house for the next year.  During this time, I will begin to understand many details and nuances of Colombian society in general and Cali in particular.  I am not able to comment intelligently on the economics of Cali or Colombia other than in the most general terms at this time.

The sheer numbers of beautiful women that are open to me (you too) causes shock and awe. 

I did not go out very much my first month here (4 times).   I have met many women, of course. But I only actually liked two.  I resisted calling one too fast because I wanted to get a greater grasp of Spanish. The other worries my slightly because she is the kind of woman that could put an end to all my fun and games.  I have taken both relationships very very slow. To the point where the girls are confused  ... they expected a much faster approach.

Then there are the rest!  AND I MEAN A TON.  You don't need Viagra in this place.  Flirtation, an open manner, and style turns me on in a woman.  So, I can't go anywhere without a XXX fantasy being written in my mind. 

For me, I have been very withdrawn thusfar.  I wanted to get a sense of things first.  Right now, I could see myself going in either direction:  many girls friends, or one girl friend.  For me it will depend on the level of passion and connection I may build with one special woman.  I am not trying to just fill in a blank, so any woman will not do.

It is a little bit like a drug.  Drugs, in and of themselves are not bad, it is the weakness of people who use them that bring bad results.  The same could be true with an Americano's exposure to women in Colombia.  I think it is a temporary thing, and there is always a hang over around the corner if you give into excess.

I went out to a club on Saturday which means I slept all day Sunday.  Now that things have become more firm here in Cali for me, I intend to change gears.  No more extremes, and I intend to integrate into the mainstream of life here.

Over the next several weeks, I will offer my observations of the places and things to do as well as the state of agencies in Cali.

[utopiacowboy]

"It is a little bit like a drug.  Drugs, in and of themselves are not bad, it is the weakness of people who use them that bring bad results.  The same could be true with an Americano's exposure to women in Colombia.  I think it is a temporary thing, and there is always a hang over around the corner if you give into excess."

You got that right. It is so easy to get a "Brad Pitt" (or in my case George Clooney) complex in Colombia. I get a lot of interest from the women and if I didn't have my head screwed on, I really would start to go a little crazy with it. I'm sure a lot of guys can relate to this and if you're not grounded, it's easy to float off in some fantasy world.

[Zon]

I will begin giving my thoughts (based on what I have seen and what I continue to see) on the MOB industry; what is good; and what is bad.

For women, I like Cali because the type of women that live here I find very attracting.  There are multiple levels of society.  I think it is rather easy to find a very attractive lady that is sincere here in the city.  The population is large 3 million.  From what I have gathered, the agencies are a little in decline, which is to say they had better days several years ago.  There is a group called TLC (they are coming this week to Cali). They are well known by the women.  It is expected that 600 women will come to meet 40 American Men.  I think I will be drinking in the bar to witness how this kind of event goes down.

I understand there are a couple more active agencies in Medellin and Bogota.  I will see for myself next month.

Here is the thing that should be obvious, but is not. Agencies and dating sites makes the first phase of this FEEL LIKE you are shopping for a puppy.  NOT SO!  The popular girl on a web site is meeting foreigners and local men EVERY DAY!!!  That is because she is beautiful!  So, don't fall in love with a photo, because the photo is not falling in love with you.  In fact, stop thinking this way entirely...

If you want to find a serious woman, a wife you should come to Colombia as a sales person familiarizing yourself with a new territory. If a girl comes from a good family and has an education - especially if she is beautiful and young - you are going to require financial resources to duplicate a priviledged lifestyle in the US.  (NOTE: A college degree is not the same thing here as in the US.  Many girls do not have a college degree - not because the are stupid; precisely the opposite.  Many women reason, correctly, that a college education does not open any more doors for them. So they get on with life at an earlier age ... with whatever opportunities are at hand.  These are almost always very limited.   I think this is the BEST segment for MOST men to look to for a wife.  These women are wiling and able to improve and are sincere).

Use Agencies; Colombian Cupids; Latin American Cupids; hi5; and FaceBook to develop aquaintances. Do not think of finding a wife in one week.  THAT IS STUPID.  Think of finding friends that will introduce you to other firends.  Do not give into to romantic talk online.  Rather, simply talk about the city the country.  BE A TOURIST; not a groom in waiting.

An example illustrates the point: Meet girls from agencies and any one else - man or woman.  Do not frame every meeting as a date with you and this girl you have only known for 5 seconds.  If she is from an agency, I would say that you are not like most Americanos she may have met.  You are not looking for ANY pretty girl, you are looking for the best women for you - and that has to start with simple friendship.  "Maybe we can be more, but for sure we can be friends."  Inviter her AND all her friends to go out dancing.  You may like one of her friends better.  Be honest and  resist raising expectations with a serious woman.  (there are other paces to go if you are not serious.  Don't mix the two)

Get a guide/friend that most women like (not a guy who demands / or accepts sex favors from women in return with dates with rich Americanos).  Go with him to a shopping area.  Here it is easy to meet woman.  It actually is the only place outside the gym where it is easy to meet women.  When you go to a club, ALMOST always women are with, or escorted by a man.  Don't intrude even if a guy is there by himself with 5 woman.  I have already learned the hard way.  It is like taking honey away from a bear. Colombian men fly off the handle when facing a thread from another man for a woman. DANGEROUS.

BANKS ARE GREAT. I swear just go go to any bank with long lines!  You will always find a couple of beautiful women.  In a long line, it is easy to strike up conversation.  I like meeting women at the Bank of Colombia - I must have been to 8 different branches:)

It is best to try to make a couple of friendships over the course of a week or so.  Make them grow when you return to the US, and schedule multiple visits (I think 4 a year is a good number).  By the end of one year, you will have grown a wide circle of contacts.  Let everyone know that you are looking for special woman, but do not act desperate.  People will start looking for you. 

I think that's the way to do it.

I FORGOT- LEARN SPANISH

Be creative. If you want to meet a conservative girl from a nice family. Go to the rich area of town.  Find the Catholic church, give to a charity and meet some people in the office.  If you want to meet a doctor, find the schools that teach medicine, and tour the campus.

Be safe. You almost always should higher a driver when you go places alone.  You should NOT take taxi's off the road!  YOU MUST CALL FOR THEM (that way there is a log). Many bad things can happen to a foreigner traveling by himself - especially after 9 PM.  At the end of the day, it is a numbers game. Not a bravery test. 

[singlefather no more]

rivardco ,

Ok you are busted and your cover is blown.. Ok Tom Clancy come out and show yourself..

You have a great gift for writing and making it very interesting.. You keep going like this everyday and after a month we will be paying you to write.. lol

Keep it coming...

When are you heading down to Peru ?

singlefather

..

[utopiacowboy]

"When you go to a club, ALMOST always women are with, or escorted by a man.  Don't intrude even if a guy is there by himself with 5 woman.  I have already learned the hard way.  It is like taking honey away from a bear. Colombian men fly off the handle when facing a thread from another man for a woman. DANGEROUS."

I have to hand it to you, you're a quick learner. At my wedding reception, the Colombian guys who wanted to dance with my wife always made a point of coming to me and asking permission first. They never would have considered dancing with her without asking or asking her. A club would be one of the last places I would go looking for a woman. Churches, on the other hand, would be pretty high on my list.

[Calipro]

Anyway, nice to meet you again.  Hope you guys don't mind the candor.  Without it, these posts have far less relevance.

I Am Zon Zon 

Well Zon Zon

I am Calipro....and I not only like candor.... I love it.

To bad I didn't notice this post a month ago....PM me your cell number in Cali and I'll give you a call....we can hang out and have a beer or hit the town and party all night....whatever you prefer.

Hope to see you around.

[singlefather no more]

rivardco,

Calipro lives down in Cali a lot of the time.. Now this ought to be interesting Calipro and rivardco out on the Town in Cali..

singlefather

.

[P Daddy]

Well Zon Zon

I am Calipro....and I not only like candor.... I love it.

To bad I didn't notice this post a month ago....PM me your cell number in Cali and I'll give you a call....we can hang out and have a beer or hit the town and party all night....whatever you prefer.

Hope to see you around.

Hey, am I invited??  If so, I'll go under one condition...I don't have to address rivardco as "Zon Zon"

Oh, one more thing...I promise I won't steal anyone's girl...for I am "Gringo B"