Cali mostly, 2nd trip in 3 months

[rpcv]

Maybe this JC guy has been less than honest with you and has been straight with Rivardco. To each his own, right?

Well for the record, I agree with PDaddy as well based on my experiences with JC.

[Zon]

There is a strong tendency to ask questions and answer them one dimensionally on these boards.  This should be noticed and understood.  Questions and comments on these type of questions often loose there relevance, because there are exceptions to everyone's particular experience.

Is this Agency Good?

What are the Girls like from this City?

Are Colombiana faithful / jealous?

Does this airline loose bags?

Does this restaurant have good service?

In any city/country with millions of people, there are thousands of possibilities. It is not possible to to get and study Cliff notes to answer these type of questions. It is just like it is in your home town, except in another setting.  With the following obvious valid generalizations in full force.

1, Colombian women will be 100000000 times more interested in the average Americano than any American woman is interested in the average Americano.

2, Be careful, you are not in Kansas anymore.

===========

And that is about it.  This whole experience has moved from the "general" to the "specific" to me.  You can not generalize a relationship that grows with a woman in real life (although this could be done as a result of using dating agencies and tours, I suppose). And as a result whatever observations / post I could make are more of my individual story than something that could guide another.

So, I may keep this thread going from time to time for a couple of more months, but I wonder how much value it will give to others.  And the most important advise I can give is to learn Spanish.  I have had relationships with other foreign women with little knowledge of English (Romania and Russian).  They were much easier for me than any relationships I have yet had in Colombia.  However, my journey is only beginning.  Anything is possible

[Jamie]

I see two with knowledge, PDaddy and Pontiac warn Rivardco about the person he is with when “running errands.” Rivardco chooses not to inquire about the details for the warning and defends the work to date as “exemplary.” At this point PDaddy should accept that Rivardco errand companion’s history is not relevant to him, yet PDaddy now pushes what most would receive as welcomed information. PDaddy you did your good deed and you should know that most people don’t accept advice no need to repeat your warning and hint of consequences. Two more men with experience input a positive and a negative. At this point Rivardco is a little irritated, yet PDaddy continues and touches on an important point for my post, character.

I believe character does matter, but I have seen for many it does not. When people do business with those of questionable character you are rewarding such individuals. Regardless if this person has stabbed you in the back (to plug-in any negative reference) or not doesn’t it matter that he stabbed someone else in the back? A criminal in jail may always be in best behavior, but isn’t that normally due to the control he is under. And doesn’t that criminal normally revert to what he really is when outside of those controls. Every miscreant waits for his opportunity. I don’t know any of the parties here nor is this opinion directed at any of them, but what I do know is when you give business to the parasites, thieves and liars of all nationalities (most who go under the guise of a friendly smile and helpful demeanor) that live in Colombia and make a living off of Americans you perpetuate their existence to prey and harm others. The fact that you may go untouched doesn’t make you clean.

[rpcv]

I’d like to add my final comment on this whole discussion which is that I think it is great you can find an abundance of advice for the newbie as well as the seasoned traveler to Colombia on this board. I’ve picked up lots of good tips from reading posts and hope some of mine have contributed to the knowledge on here too. Maybe Rivardo and Calipro find JC to be a respectful individual of high integrity. My experience with him mirrors much of what PDaddy has stated although I had no prior knowledge of this until PDaddy responded in this thread. Folks being informed about both sides should be a good thing especially if they are going to consider using his services.

[Zon]

It is just and corrected for those to comment and offer opinions.  To try to persuade runs afoul.  We see this often when people eat up a couple of pages arguing about vendors, agencies, or girls from this city / country are better than that one. 

"I believe character does matter, but I have seen for many it does not."  Writes a poster. 

Of course it does.  But to go on assuming that everyone's perception is the same is like saying everyone respects the President of the Miami Chamber of Commerce, or the Senior Senator from New York.  Such things are not one dimensional. Everyone has admirers and detractors.  You do and I do. 

[todobien]

Zon Zon Great Posts. I read all 9 pgs and l'm learning a lot from your candid observations.

These posts make the board great.

I have a question. But first let's not waste any more of this great thread on the JC thing. I get it.....Peace

It's great too that you are talking about Cali. I have an ex in the states from Cali. She says things are getting much better. Especially the infrastructure.

I noticed in one post you mentioned that Cali had the best women for you. Would you please say more on that...I know you landed there for work. What about the other places like Bogota, MD etc. Basically, what do you like about the women of Cali as opposed to the other cities?

I too plan to spend an extended period of time in one place and was thinking Bogota or MD. Now I'm thinking Cali. Thanks for your response.

[Zon]

Women of Cali are best for me ...  must have been excited, or drinking too much vino tinto to have said that.

I think I have been overwhelmed at times by how eligible I find myself to be in Cali. I think Cali has a very high proportion of attractive women.  The women of Cali have a reputation for being more passionate and less serious than women in other parts of Colombia. There is less opportunity in Cali today versus Md and Bog.  You can get more for you money - and your wealth (to whatever degree you have it) stands out as greater value here.

All of this tends to maximize the "gringo effect".  The gringo effect is a positive bias that MOST Colombian woman have that an AM means a better life choice (financial; emotional; todo).

If you read my posts on the DR, I mentioned that the women there are "simple".  I would change that to "primitive."  I think the woman in Cali are "simple" - in the best sense of the term.  Life and the roles of the sexes are not a mystery to them.  They will happily assume the traditional feminine. If she makes you dinner, often you eat first and sometimes by yourself.  Such things as making the bed to laundry become her occupation exclusively and quickly.

I have only been to Md once and for a very short time.  But it seems to be a more modern city going through a boom.  The woman seem to be more modern - just a little.  There seems to be a higher frequency of English.  The city seems to be wonderful. I am looking forward to spending more time there.

Not much to say about Bog. Spent a couple of days in Cart and that seemed to be almost identical to the DR to me.

I liked what I saw in Panama last weekend too.  I have a trip planned for Brazil in March. 

It is possible to find your second half almost anywhere.  Cali, however, seems to be a prime place for a man to find a woman.  It can happen fast and relatively easily.  Use an agency, or just PM me and come on down.  It is EASY to meet any woman at the mall.  The mall may as well be an agency in my opinion.  (True story:  I have a friend who has a friend that wanted to come down to visit. I said, no problem.  He had SEVEN DATES with women he met from the mall in 5 days.  He knows poco Spanish.  Most of these girls have never met a gringo before.  One girl had a car and ended up taken him to the airport. If that is what you are into, it is that easy)

[utopiacowboy]

I'll pass on the "gringo effect". If that's all a woman is interested in then she's not for me. If a woman like that comes to the US and her only attraction for you is the fact that you're a gringo, what happens when she sees millions of other gringo men here? No, I want (and have) a woman who is interested in me only for my unique person.

[Zon]

The Gringo Effect is NOT optional

[utopiacowboy]

I disagree. Maybe for a lot of women that's all they are ever going to view you as, and like I said, I am not interested in those women. My wife and I never refer to each other as gringo and Colombiana - we have always seen each other as individuals and not as representatives of two stereotypes. Then again, she's a paisa.

[Zon]

Uc - these are not absolute things. 

The Gringo Effect remains non - optional.

[todobien]

How has it been as far as adjusting? You mentioned briefly but more please.

Things like housing, cell phone, internet, banking, groceries?

How is the general service of people. This is one thing I have noticed the most when traveling south. People that are serving you or selling you something don't even say gracias or smile.

Panama was not bad but so many places I go just seem like you are a hindrance when you want to actually spend money.

[Zon]

Part of the Gringo effect is that everyone presumes things that are favorable.  The other is that you have resources; subsequently, you are always in play.

Trust slowly.  (probably should write a post just on this).

As far as meeting people and their disposition.  I think it matters more how you greet them.  Happy begets happy. This place does not strike me as rude at all.

Logistics and infrastructure are excellent. However, almost anyone should use some kind of guide at first. 

I like it more and more with each passing day.  Going do have a hard time living in the USA again.  But, I do not necessarily have to.

[Zon]

There is not high degrees of competence, however.  Ironically, there is a pre-occupation of form, protocol, and correct method ... but even then, things are almost always in a slight state of error.

Customer service is oxymoronic in Colombia.  Everything is helped by a small payment for extra service.

The infrastructure is excellent, providing you are in good areas.  In business, most people in the states I work with don't even know I am out of the country.  Banking procedures can take several days longer than in the US.  Stores like grocery / pharmacy is just like in the USA for me now (4 blocks away).  In the area that I stayed first, the supermarket was a car ride away but the street was full of little stores that carried most things.

[utopiacowboy]

"There is not high degrees of competence, however.  Ironically, there is a pre-occupation of form, protocol, and correct method ... but even then, things are almost always in a slight state of error."

You've never met my wife. She ran a first-class shop at the textile mill in Itaqui and she runs a first-class shop for the Japanese here at Toyota. I think you need to spend more time in Medellin where they have a LOT less tolerance for incompetence.

[Zon]

Point well taken.  I should state over and over again that observations are based on my experiences and the GENERALIZATION that I have been able to conclude.

Of course there are exceptions!  There are skinny girls with small breasts in Cali.  My dentist was a great person and very very good at her profession.  There is a girl whose company I enjoy, and she is intelligent, funny, and very very responsible.

But, I think on average my observations are true.

[Zon]

Still here, things become richer with each passing day.

I have - FINALLY - had some breakthroughs in Spanish.  Which multiplies the opportunities and pleasure exponentially.  I have a nice routine where I meet new people each week, while I have found some favorite things to do regularly.

How have my perceptions changed in the last 15 days?

There seems to be a lot more women.  Seriously.  It is like a faucet that never stops.

However, I would give my right arm for a little more honesty!  It is common knowledge that Colombian men have a reputation for having multiple girls - and being untruthful to achieve these relationship.  I have seen that stretching the truth, and not being forthcoming is also a characteristic of Colombian women too.  Again, just a generalization - OF COURSE there are exceptions.

[utopiacowboy]

Said it before and I'll say it again. We notice the Colombian brand of dishonesty and think that they are more dishonest than we are. We don't notice our own dishonesty even though there are colossal examples of it daily - look at Bernard Manoff's little Ponzi scheme. It makes the recent Colombian pyramid schemers look like rank amateurs. What was the main theme of the most popular show on American television (Seinfeld)? Lying and deception.

[Zon]

I just and balanced comparison:

Honesty and credibility.  If I have a bias, frankly, I am critical of the US.  I tend to romanticize other cultures in comparison.  Then, over time, I am able to be more balanced and develop truer perceptions.

In the US - in all humanity - there is deception. Do doubt.

But this is taken to a much higher level in dealings in Colombia and with Colombians.  To not see this clearly, or to mitigated would be wrong.

TRUST BUT VERIFY

[Zon]

I think you can stay in Colombia 160 days without a special visa each calender year.  Which means on Jan. 1,  I started all over.  Thinking like that makes me feel, I am not a beginner anymore (Relax, I am certainly not a CALIPRO either)

But, I do see Colombia, and Colombians in a much different light these days.  I have not made any conclusions, but I will offer observations that would be difficult from an Americano to perceive if he did not spend an extended period of time here.

You have to ADJUST to a whole new world of beauty and eligibility.  If you don't, you are going to taste the soup when it is still too hot ... you will likely burn your lip.  You have to get use to looking a drop dead beautiful woman in the eye and not feeling the least bit excited.  IT IS NOT A RARE THING DOWN HERE.  I have already seen many guys (some who should know better) get messed up big time.

You have to be AWARE that - no matter who you are - you are first off and foremost on BIG DOLLAR SIGN.  The depth of this truism is hard for you to understand until you have been here awhile. How important is money to Colombians and Colombian women?  I think nothing is beyond the need / desperation ... robbery, murder; faking orgasms and love for a life time.  Be forewarned.

These are the two major backdrops that an Americano must try to understand as soon as possible.  I don't know how it would be possible to get the most out of Colombia in few and quick trips.

Having said these two warnings (I am just trying to keep it real), this is remains a thrill, a joy.  It is easy to see what is right with this place. I am just trying to share what is wrong too

[gringoman]

Rivardco, Any comments contrasting it vs Dominica or Eastern Europe.  Thank you

[Zon]

"Rivardco, Any comments contrasting it vs Dominica or Eastern Europe.  Thank you"

Interesting question to me now because in my mind I am hearing the echoes of this past weekend.  Was in Vegas and met a perfect (perfect for me) girl from Estonia.  I love hearing a woman say DAAAA under just the right circumstances.  For me, there is not comparison.  I like the manners and Idiosyncrasies Eastern European and Russian women. Not just like - I LOVE.  Sort of makes me prone to crazy things like falling in love too easily.  Which is precisely the reason the DR and Colombia has been perfect stops for me.

Generally speaking you can make virtually NO COMPARISON between Russian women and DR women.  One group is at one end of the spectrum with regard to education and sophistication, with the other group sits on the extreme opposite end.  (I  guess that is a comparison of sorts?)

Much more interesting comparisons can be made between Russian women and Colombian women.  There is a current thread on the sister board to this site that is currently discussing this issue.  www.russianwomendiscussion.com

[Zon]

(NOTE: This board is not busy.  Plus I am busy.  Therefore, there are large lapses of time in this TR.  Because of this, it may lack a consistency and cohesion. )

I'm still in Cali. It has been over three months.  I left only twice for short visits - Costa Rica and Las Vegas.

I KNOW (have learned) much more than can be put into a casual trip report in my time here.  Most of the important things can be surmised in the prior pages. All that is really happening to me now is affirmation and a deepening of those observations.

I have had many dates and "girl friends", yet not NEARLY as many as I COULD have had.  I got over the Beauty thing in December (So many of the girls are beautiful. It assaults the senses).  This is a big achievement for a man that is admittedly beautiful girl crazy.  Once I stopped going gaga of 9s and 10s ... I got a much better perspective.  I acquired much more control.  Interestingly ( and this applies to 8s, 9s and 10s in the USA too), once your cup is full, all women seem to throw their attention at you 100% more.   HOWEVER, I became a little bored and jaded.  VERY GENERALLY SPEAKING, the women in Cali are not rocket scientists.  They are not refined in their social graces.  PLUS, I represent MONEY - first and foremost.  That is a BIG deal.  

The disconnect that this creates is astonishing, and cannot be glossed over.

In an attempt to meet smarter women AND improve my Spanish faster.  I put an advertisement in the paper for a Spanish teacher.  I hired the one I was most interested in.  A very smart and Very nice girl who has learned English AND French, and who is studying Japanese.  She looks more European the Colombian. We are not in a serious relationship, however, we are much more than student / teacher.  I went to her house to met her family yesterday.

Her mother is a rather successful lawyer.  Her father is purposeful.  Her brother is studying to be a doctor.  A Very good family.  They live in a neighborhood that I would think twice of driving through in he USA (I have gotten used to this).  As I spent time with the family, I began to realize that I may as well be Donald Trump to these guys. AND THIS IS A SUCCESSFUL FAMILY.  Not rich, but upwardly mobile and ethically reinforced with good family values.  I quickly understood how the other girls who were legitimately under privileged could not see me as anything more than food.

The rich girls in Cali are very similar to American women.  there are not many of them.  Besides, in that class there are many rich, good looking Colombianos.   I get an "open door" because of a universal interest curiosity about gringos.  But you have to be truthfully eligible to attract a woman like that.

I met a Russian girl in Las Vegas earlier in the month.  For me, a woman with intelligence and grace trumps a physically HOT and tender personality.  I have not closed the door on Colombia for finding a life partner, however, I am planning a prolonged trip to Eastern Europe later this year.

Life is a journey.  I have more fun, adventure, romance, and thrill in 10 days here in Cali than a normal Americano has in a decade.

[Researcher]

         Hey Rivardco,
                Great trip report. I think it is an advantage to become accustomed to many things during this process. I consider myself lucky that I had travelled and spent quite a bit of time in places like Colombia before I even considered a relationship with a foreign woman.Learning the language was another advantage.

                Good luck where ever you decide to go.

                Researcher

[gringoman]

Thanks Rivardco.  what I was getting at with my question, was comparing Russian (Eastern European) women  vs  Colombian,   I would assume the mental connection much greater with Russian.   I actually think they are much more upfront and direct, the Russians/Slavic relate very well with current events.   Tough call for you , but to the contrary of message board horror stories , are much more honest then Latinas.


From reviewing your posts so far, and you being a man with options ( most gringos, Russia is not even an option) , I can already surmise the final ending to this saga.