Cali mostly, 2nd trip in 3 months

[Zon]

Have been in Colombia for less than a week, so I thought I would begin a thread. I plan on staying for more than a vacation, so this ought to be long running.

I will post observations I think would be useful to others. PROBABLY, this report will be without references to potential Mrs. Right. Although I am "open", it still has been less than one and a half years since I ended a 10 year + relationship. Although my ex announced her marriage this week, I think it is best to wait at least 2 years before I get myself in a marriage situation. (There may be exceptions, but for now I am just living, being kind, telling the truth, and trying to enjoy my single status before I loose it again - next time hopefully forever.)

First, there is something that we have LOST in the US. The so called modern life comes at a great human cost. There are simple things that most American simply NEVER do. These are things (these are manners of living that can only be seen outside the tourist areas, outside the business centers, and probably not with the VERY privileged Colombians. I have seen this to in my deep travels in the Dominican Republic.

Of course, let me state the obvious. Those constant themes that arise again and again here.
1, the women are very beautiful and curious.
2, there is a strong ulterior interest that 90% of woman have in meeting an Americano. If you have trouble believing your woman loves you ... let me help you - she does NOT. There is someone for everyone. And Colombia adds to this saying infinitely. Yet be truthful with yourself.
3, VERY VERY VERY Beautiful ladies are rare and strongly competed for in every place on earth.
4, There is a surprising amount of affluence in Colombia.

This is no third world country! There are many rich people, and those that have money seem to have a lot of it!

Danger? Yeah ...
petty crimes are a constant threat to every one.
If you are not very careful, it is possible to put yourself at risk (just like in the bad areas of New York City, or Miami ... except those bad areas are almost everywhere after 10 PM)
I am growing less concerned about waking up in a bathtub full of ice missing a kidney.

Will continue throughout the next 2 months ...

[utopiacowboy]

If you think there's a lot of wealth in Colombia (and there is), you ought to check out Monterrey, Mexico and its suburbs. Far wealthier than any place in Colombia. Travel out into the rural areas of Colombia and you'll see why it's a Third World country.

[papajeff]

crap go from the airport to the dowtown section of Barranquilla Im not sure thats even considered part of acountry...lol

[Zon]

Have seen some tough stuff.  But nothing worse that I have seen plenty of in the DR.

[Zon]

So far, this thread is about environment and culture with an accent on safety vs. danger.

The Latin Culture is easy to enjoy.

There are environments (the ones that most travelers go) that are as safe as the most unsafe places in the US. In other words, it is nothing to become overly concerned about.  Now, there are other places that make the neighborhood in the movie Training Day look like the high rent district - and there are a lot of them.  Once you are here for a while and not just cramming life into a 5 day visit.  It is a much rougher than the US, but that ought not affect anybody's plans.

The girls also are under much greater distress (thereby desiring an AM) than I understood.  If you are NOT absolutely convinced that you girl is in love with you - she probably is not.

That is all for now

[utopiacowboy]

"The girls also are under much greater distress (thereby desiring an AM) than I understood."

What socio-economic levels are we talking about? My wife (and her three sisters) were not under any distress.

[Alabamaboy!]

I don't think money = happiness for most people.....especially Colombians.  Recently they were voted as being the second (or possibly third) "happiest" country in the world.  And the US was something like 16th.  So unless that particular study only asked the richest people of Colombia...then your statement is incorrect.  Because I think it is impossible to be under "distress" and happy at the same time.

And the women I have met seemed very far from being under "distress"....even those in the Estrato 2-3 barrios.  They are having more fun than most of us uptight Gringos will ever have.  Sure they would like to have more money...but I do not think most of them see it as a dire situation...because almost all of the family, friends, workmates, classmates are in the same boat.  And "misery loves company".  And they make the best of it.  And for that reason they are so happy as a whole.

[Alabamaboy!]

I will agree with you on the fact that they do strive to have at least enough money to be healthy and safe.  But they are not looking to "hit the jackpot" and live the lifestyle of the rich and famous.  I have not experienced that yet.

[singlefather no more]

rivardco,

Do you have the same bodyguard again on this trip or a new bodyguard this time ?

I would give yourself more time in Colombia before you can make generalizations..

What do the girls think of a Gringo with a bodyguard ?

Good luck,

singlefather

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[utopiacowboy]

He's got a bodyguard? I know guys who have bodyguards down there. Most of them are wanted by the US government.......

[singlefather no more]

He's got a bodyguard? I know guys who have bodyguards down there. Most of them are wanted by the US government.......

UTC,

This was from his first trip report in August..

I tested the limits of this city.  Although I was fortunate to have an armed guide by my side, I behaved much the same way I do in Manhattan or Miami - which is tastefully loud. (I would not have done this if it were not for my security.  Very clearly Cali is a place where a Gringo ought to be very aware).

singlefather

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[utopiacowboy]

Nothing gets by you! That's hilarious. A bodyguard. I've heard it all now.

[Zon]

The term "bodyguard" was not appropriate. The evokes images of an armed guard.  Clearly, this offended some.  I apologize.

Listen, I am not writing this to pal around, or to boost and cheer for one thing at the cost of another.  I have no dog in this hunt!  So, there is a good chance this thread, when complete, could help those in a position I was in only 4 months ago - get an objective perspective on what awaits in Colombia. 

(additionally, and this may not make me unpopular ... there is too much petty bs on this board and not enough good information.  I understand that the MOB industry in Colombia is in great decline.  I have not understood the reason why being that AM are more discontent than ever and that there is a universe of eligible woman here)

One of my first comments above stated that there IS great wealth here in Colombia.  Naturally, within this population women are not distressed.  My later post that reported a great population of women that are indeed distressed is equally true.  The bottom line for an American man that is a newbie is to verify sincerity ... generally speaking.

And to go further ...

I have gone far outside the Sheraton and Intercontinental.  ChipeChapi mall may as well be in another world. I have stayed in a "normal" barrio, walking to the supermarket and gym and cafe.  I dress and act correctly (try not to stick out).  But I do.  Most of you will stick out more:)

I was concerned about the general safety in Colombia.  I have learned that it is BOTH safer and more dangerous that most reports indicate.  If a newbie has a good guide and stays in the nice areas, it is paradise.  However, if you know only a little Spanish and have no trusted contacts, I don't think it would be a good idea just to fly, rent a car, get a map, and drive around to have a look see.  Could anybody with real experience disagree with that?

Ciao

[soltero]

Rivardco, you have the most uncanny ability I have ever seen for rubbing guys the wrong way, but I hope you continue to relay your experiences and don't change a thing. Even though your unique talent for coming off as condescending to the indigenous denizens of whatever locale you are exploring seems to draw the ire of our fellow posters from time to time (me included on occasion), your perspective is extremely honest and genuine despite the reviews it may generate. While I may not agree with some of your assessments (some I do agree with), I thoroughly enjoy being granted by you the opportunity to join you as you make your way through the landscape of yet a new culture, and I truly hope you find whatever it is that you may or may not be actively seeking. I look forward greedily to even more of your interesting observations and I commend you on taking the time during your trips to posting them regardless of the feedback you may receive. Again, don't change a thing. Be as honest and as blunt as you desire. I truly enjoy reading your posts and your opinions on the local populace and culture as you see it.

[singlefather no more]

rivardco ,

I echo soltero comments in the fact that I really enjoy your posts and your honest assessment from your point of view.. It would be mighty boring if we all agreed on things on this board and life.

I hope you find what you are looking for and the woman of your dreams and heart.

Hey you should come down to Chiclayo , Peru for my wedding on December 20 /08. They are going to be a ton of single women there. I think you would really enjoy Peru and the delightful ladies.. Going to be a heck of a party.

singlefather


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[Zon]

I am who I am.  And will continue to post.  Thank you for the kind words above

I understand I came off a little cocky in the beginning.  I tried to tone it down.  Apparently, that did not work either. 

SO FELLAS!  Whatcha think of my new avatar?  That's me with my arm wrapped around Teagan Presley - January Centerfold Penthouse.  Taken three weeks ago in Florida. (I have never exaggerated myself in my posts here)

I do know how to tone it down, however.  I am received very well by local, normal, and kind hearted Colombianas because I do not lie and do not take advantage of them.  I behave as a stranger in a strange country. Quite and respectful

Now, I got to split and go to Salsa class,

Ciao

[Zon]

Halloween night and the streets are filled with happy people and children dressed - even el perros.  It is hard not to be delighted by normal Colombians who work hard for little flooding the streets and the complete joy that fills the air.  (Don't think these guys are reading the news.  Economic meltdown, etc...)

There is a tendency to fall in love too fast with that which is different.  There is "grass is always greener on the other side of the mountain element"  that a person must live through.  If a person travels, they have already are at least hoping for a positive experience. Again, there is a tendency to fill in the blanks prematurely and positively.

The people on the street are either slightly curious of me, or don't care one way or the other.  I have spent much time this year in the Dominican Republic, and picked up much Spanish.  But that is Caribbean Spanish. The people in the DR know 5 languages, but none well.  More than that, Spanish sounds much different here.  Sure I know words.  I can get around, but I have grown frustrated.  Rather than going out this Friday night, I am studying Spanish.

I urge those who are seriously considering a visit to learn a little Spanish.  Go deeper than vocabulary words, a little grammer is very very helpful.  It will enrich your experience greatly - and it is not that hard.

About Colombian women, there are many, many pretty girls - no doubt.  There are fewer pretty girls (but still much more than in the US) with an education, the kind of person that would readily understand the "modern world" as lived in the US.  The rich Colombians live here, but in a sense live in a parallel universe here.  I see four general classes emerging from my observations:
1, Privileged, and very privileged
2, middle class climbers - not everybody can climb like the US.  climbing requires a foundation.
3, low class fighters - these are people who have enough contact to the economy to push to belong to its fringes.
4, terribly distressed - and there appears to be a very large group here.  Think of an area where the police will not even go into.

If you are talking to a woman who knows a little English, you are dealing with category 1, and 2.

A full time live in maid can cost as little as $100, plus room and board.  It is not uncommon for a young person to graduate some kind of technical training, even something like web development or graphic design (there are completely capable to compete with US or India), but they lack communication skills and market savvy to use Elance.

And as I drive around the city, I am struck by the level of infrastructure and sophistication that comprises the foundation.  I am a little mystified why the economy can not function better.  As I drive by the endless blocks of houses - all completely enshrined in wrought iron bars - even the atrium roofs!- I wonder if there was ever a time where this was not so?  Clearly, there is a major league failure at work in South American society.

It is all the more interesting to see this again the back drop of the US Presidential dialogue.  I am a centerist. But seeing this, and the current conditions, I find myself being a little more left leaning then ever before.  (this is big picture stuff, not policy per policy)

[drell283]

I enjoy reading your observations. Please keep them coming. I will be in Bogota 11/20 to 11/26. Yes, Soltero, I grew a pair and will only vacation in Costa Rica. The search will be in Bogota.

[utopiacowboy]

"However, if you know only a little Spanish and have no trusted contacts, I don't think it would be a good idea just to fly, rent a car, get a map, and drive around to have a look see.  Could anybody with real experience disagree with that?"

You're absolutely right. I was sitting in Parque Belen one day with one of my stepsons and one of my daughters. It was a pleasant day and the park was nice and I asked my stepson, why couldn't a gringo just come down here like a normal tourist and check it out for himself? My stepson said no, that just wouldn't do. Without a guide of some sort, a novice gringo would be bound to get into trouble sooner or later. So he agrees with you too.

[soltero]

I enjoy reading your observations. Please keep them coming. I will be in Bogota 11/20 to 11/26. Yes, Soltero, I grew a pair and will only vacation in Costa Rica. The search will be in Bogota.

Drell,

I am very glad to see that you are going to take your serious search directly to the promised land! I am sure that you will be rewarded with a much better class of woman and waste a lot less time. Since you are going to be there during my birthday, lift up a glass for me while you are out and about!

[bcc_1_2]

I agree. I really enjoyed Costa Rica myself but I fully understand why most folks wife hunt in South America. I've decided to go down myself... although I'm looking at Cali.

[drell283]

Rivardco,

If you post more, I promise not to bring up my own personal crap on your thread. Please keep it coming.

[Zon]

We all have are reasons ... 

For me, it is giving away my ability to communicate.  I feel that although I struggle to literally communicate, I speak more authentically than with ALL my verbal bull [snip].  I love the very great clubs. They are rare and worth going out to (and becoming exhausted by).  I choose my nights carefully, because the fact remains, I am 45 !   I have to make sure that the 12- 20 times a year I party ... I do it as if "God is Coming".  (other than those times, I drink little, and am committed to healthy living)

Everybody has assets - you just have to find them.  I can party.  I can do it in any country in the world.  In a club that let's nobody in, I am the guy who brings in  eight guests and does not pay cover. I am the guy that is behind the DJ, on the stage.  Even when I don't want to.  Even when I was newly divorced and scarred to death of the single scene, it was easier for me to play this role than any other.

I love it when spon

In about 15 minutes a car will pick me up with people I am too young to go out with, to a club that plays Electronic music in Cali - the salsa capital of the world.  My hosts know me.  The people with whom I will accompany do not.  (But, I have a very, very, very minor entertainment based personality that proceeds me, and people with whom I associate with always blow it out of proportion - it is just conversation.)

So, my new friends are going to take me out to "show me how."

Nothing makes me feel so alive as to meet these expectations in a strange country.  I love it.  I start from scratch.  I feel born all over again.

It seems superficial, of course.  But there is a social peaking order and a communication model that I must negotiate.  I do not know how.  This is one of the big thrills for me.  I sky dive, but that has grown commonplace.  This, however, is a heart pounding experience. 

However, there are others that golf.

Don't wait up.

It is bridging the culture thing.  It is social studies on steroids.  It is having to know yourself 1000 times over.  It is having to overcome any insecurity, or fear of failure. 

[fathertime]

In about 15 minutes a car will pick me up with people I am too young to go out with, to a club that plays Electronic music in Cali - the salsa capital of the world.

For some reason this reminds me of the that scene in the movie "Swordfish" when John Travolta pulls up in that crazy sportscar outside that techno club in Europe. 

The world is your oyster old man, just don't forget to pack extra diapers and Bengay!

Fathertime!

[Zon]

That pretty much went according the script.  So much for keeping a low profile.

That was the kind of night you can have in Miami, LA, but it was in Colombia so it was more ... adventurous, challenging, gratifying, etc.

Short version:  Found the only exclusively Electronic Music club in Cali.  House Music creates unique following that is very worldly.  It is an intense experience: if you go to observe, it will probably turn you off. When you participate it is a different story.  I have done some promotions world for the larger clubs in Miami and Caribean over the past 6 months. Through this I have met influential club owners and famous DJs. So, within an hour, I was in the DJ booth and befriended by management.   It was a good time.

BUT, after the club closed the DJ's invited me to an afterhour party. These are the places where a good time turns into a great time.  Followed a car 30 minutes south to private residence on a farm.  HUGE Casa!  Again, if this happened in Miami, no biggy, but in Cali, it has a certain movie aspect to it. The clubhouse by the pool was as big as the club.  The sterio /video system better.  Had no body guard:)  as I waited outside the huge gates with 20 others to be let in, of course I reminded myself that I am swimming in deep water.  I quickly bought a bottle of taquilla and handed out shots to all those that appeared exceptionally mean and ugly. I drink only shots when in unknown places because it is possible for strangers to put things in drinks.  My "bodyguard" did tell me the greatest danger I was likely to face was getting the attention of a drug dealer's girls. So I kept my eyes in the distance)  The DJ I came with presented me to the hostess and said they brought me here to dance with her?  An hour later, I figured out I had enjoyed the best of what this had to offer, thanked everyone for their kindness and split.

The kids that took me out said that this blew their minds   Yep.  Me too when I first went to an afterhours party.  We ate breakfast at a side stand that deepfried everything.  As the sun came up, I thought about the night's sleep I had just missed and the work that I would likely not complete this weekend.  Monday is a Holiday in Colombia, not so in the US.