Fathertime strikes fools gold or what?

[Alabamaboy!]

That is good you guys had the good fortune to be in that situation....but I really do not think you have been. You both have found older women than mine. And like I thought I explained in great detail...the situation is different when they do not need any help.

And if you do not agree with what I told you...why is it then that many, many girls I had talked to from Barranquilla said the same thing? And I was not even dating them, just talking to them?  Why is that?

Please do not try to prevent other people from getting valuable information that might be pertinent to their own situation. I am speaking from experience.  Not from ideas that just popped up in my head.  Sorry if you do not agree...but it is reality...at least with a lot of the girls there in BAQ.

[Alabamaboy!]

Another thing is if you are engaged to a woman who lives in a ghetto and you have the means to get her to a safer place so she will not be raped, mugged, or worse.....why would you not do it? What kind of human would not do it? It is your future wife....not a criminal you are trying to punish.  It is someone you supposedly care for.  Why would you want her to suffer without good reason?  Just because you want to save some money or teach her a lesson that money does not grow on trees?

Are you planning on having your wife live in Compton when you live in Huntington Beach?  Of course not.  So why is it such a bad thing to help her live a little bit better while waiting for the Visa? Especially when she "compromised" by quitting the University to study English full time?  Do you think she should do that......I live in a big home alone with a swimming pool and everything...and leave her in the ghetto?? Not me.  Maybe you guys think that way but I do not.

But to each his own.  I am not trying to fight with anyone or press my ideas or beliefs on anyone.

[sean126]

Because I know for a fact there is a big difference between a "novio" and fiancee.

When you get engaged in Barranquilla....I cannot speak for other parts of Colombia.....then the woman....and her family think you are going to "help" financially on a fairly large scale if needed.  I did not know that until after the fact.  And it caused a lot of friction until I spoke with many other Colombianas from the same socioeconomic stratum as my girl.  And they all told me the same things...that yes....it is true. But maybe with the rich girls it is not like that.

I am sure everything is negotiable.  But be aware of that up front.

The above statement is the part I disagree with.  Every poor fiance's family in Barranquilla is not expecting this.  This is a gross misstatement and it's simply not true.  Some, yes.  But a blanket statement like you just made...no.  It's a lie, plain and simple.   One would think from your reality that every poor family in Barranquilla are nothing but a bunch of gold diggers expecting a free ride.  Sorry...but that just doesn't fly.   Like I said before...who doesn't hope that good fortune doesn't flow down hill, but there are also many, many poor people who doesn't see a free ride when they look at a Colombiana's fiance'.   I would hope if I ever have a daughter and she marries a man with 100 million dollars that I'd have some extremely nice presents and gifts, but would I expect a free ride?  Well, speaking for myself...no I wouldn't.  It's your blanket of fact that I disagree with.  If you think it's true...then you'd probably be the type who thinks he's better than some other people also.

[Alabamaboy!]

Sorry Sean...even I make mistakes sometimes like everyone else. 

Let me re-phrase it:

It has been my experience...that with the women in the same socioeconomic stratum, age group, etc.  as my girl....living in Barranquilla.... that approximately 90% of them are expecting that you will help them financially  on a fairly significant scale.  Again...it is only my experience after talking with probably 30 or so women there.
You got me on that one though.  Sorry guys.

You may also want to talk to PDaddy who tells me Colombians are famous (infamous) for saying one thing to your face and another behind your back.

So who knows maybe they are saying I am a nice guy or a sucker.

Or they are saying you are a nice guy or a cheapskate.

I don't know.  I just do what I feel is right.

And I would not call it a "free ride" that she stopped studying at the University to study English full time.  Or that she does not go out with her friends dancing like she used to. She is making sacrifices too.  I would not be "compromising" if she was not.

And if my girl's family was living in Estrato 5 with adequate safety and cash...believe me...I would not not be helping out so much financially.

I don't think I am better than anyone.  Especially a poor girl , whom I happen to love, living in Colombia. That is exactly why I do not see any harm in "spreading the wealth."

I guess you guys are McCain guys also. 

[sean126]

helping someone...which I am a huge outspoken advocate of on this board and someone expecting money or help from me are two different things.  No harm done...we just disagree on the percentages.   We're still cool.

[Researcher]

 Hey FatherTime,

     Congrats, it sounds like you are happy with the situation and thats all that counts.Nothing is carved in stone when it comes to how a relationship is supposed to start out.

     What was wrong with the haiku? Sounds good to me.

[RJS]

Maybe I am a penny-pinching gringo, but unlike a lot of older guys here, i'm still building for my future (I'm 28) and I'm not going to short-change myself and my immediate family to support her parents or brothers or whatever. I would have to be absolutely insane to send $500/mo down to colombia. Could I? Sure, but I'd rather invest it. That's like 40k compounded at 10% over 20 years or 100k over 30 years. I'm not sure what salaries are like there, but the girl I was dating in peru made $250 a month as a nurse, so to put it in comparable terms, you're basically paying for two of their family members to have the privilege of not working. Besides which, I don't know how anyone could come up with such an arbitrary figure. Sure, some guys might be six-figure earners, or already comfortably retired, but other guys will only be earning 50k/yr, and someone making 50k/yr, which is STIlLL above average in the US, is not going to be able to afford sending 6k/yr down to Colombia

I don't know about you, but I'm marrying the girl. The parents were fine before i arrived and as far as I'm concerned they'll go on living the same way after I leave. They should be happy knowing their daughter will lead a comfortable (if not luxurious) life here, have kids that go to private schools, etc. That's not to say I wouldn't help-out in an emergency, but immediate family (meaning wife and kids) will always come first. I'm certainly not going to spend 40k a year on them, which is how I look at it. And that is every year. Think about whether that is reasonable for the average guy to do or someone else to expect.

And if you want to use the "get her out of the ghetto so she won't be raped" scenario, ok fine, that's a decent reason if the area she lives in is that bad, but as soon as she is here, there's no longer a chance of that happening, so there's no need to send money anymore, right? I'm just trying to get this straight. you are talking about helping the girl or the parents? Anyway, xmas is once a year as far as i'm concerned. My mother is on welfare now, and i help her out now and then, but I can't mortgage my entire future because she made bad choices. i don't want to be in that situation when i am 50. Btw, I'm completely happy to pay for her english classes and stuff like that. I will also pay for her continuing education when she is here, but I'm not taking on the extended family as dependents. I don't even do that for my family.

[Alabamaboy!]

Thanks Sean.

[Alabamaboy!]

The money I was talking about is now...while she is still there waiting on the Visa.  But I am still planning on sending about $250/month to keep them in a safer living arrangement ( I am talking about the mother and brother now) after she comes to the States.

Actually I was thinking about buying a house there.  The prices are super cheap with the exchange rate.  It is possible to buy a decent 3-4 bedroom house with over 2,000 square feet for around $50K dollars.  That way the mom and brother can live there....take care of the place for us, and the $250/month could take care of the utilities and everything. If I have a house there I would have to pay some minimal utilities cost anyway, and for some kind of security. Then when we come there for vacations or to "semi-retire" the way I want to in about 9-10 years.....we can all enjoy it together.

And I know, buying a house like that does not make sense to a lot of folks, but to me it does.  I love it there, I want to retire there, the prices are right, I really like my future mother in law and brother in law, etc.  That particular thing is not for everybody. But no matter if things go well with my girl or not, I will have the property in a place that I wish to retire, so I do not think it is that crazy.

The "get her out of the ghetto so she does not get raped" thing applies to her mother too, as far as I am concerned.  She is very hot also. And I think would be very unsafe walking around in the ghetto.

I would say that someone making $50,000 could afford to help out with $250/month, if it was very much needed.  I know many guys making cash like that who blow three times that much making payments on boats, quads, motorhomes, etc.  But everyone is different.  We all have our priorities.

My mom is poor too. And I send her money too. And I am glad to do so.

[utopiacowboy]

"And if you do not agree with what I told you...why is it then that many, many girls I had talked to from Barranquilla said the same thing?Huh And I was not even dating them, just talking to them?  Why is that?HuhHuh"

Of course they are going to say that. They are hoping to find their own gringo cow to milk.

[Alabamaboy!]

Or maybe they are just telling the truth.

And then again they are hoping to find their own gringo cow to milk like you say.  Just like we are looking for something down there that is not available here for us here.  They can not find men like us down there that will treat them well and can provide some financial stability.  Just like we cannot find many women here that are so beautiful and willing to give us a chace either.

It is a compromise I guess.  In the end, hopefully it all works out for everyone.

We are looking for something that is a rarity here in the States. And they are looking for something that is a rarity in Colombia.

And why is it that the Colombian guys get the same treatment?  If they have money it is the same story. It is not a gringo thing.  Although I am sure there is a gringo "surcharge" based on the fact that most of us make much more than a Physician, Lawyer, stock broker, or narcotraficante there.  So I guess it is a "sliding scale" based on how much you earn.

Maybe for a guy from there...he might have to help out the household with a few extra groceries or something if he is poor.  But for sure if he is very rich there...he will be "helping" as much as me.


I don't think they will let him off easy just because he is Colombian.

[fathertime]

Fathertime!
  By the way, have you been using an interpreter or speaking Spanish?
 

No NC I do not use an interpreter.  My spanish is barely passable but I am able to muddle my way through things ok.  I really need to make a 100% effort on taking my spanish to another level though...

Fathertime!

[zack]

Fathertime,

This is one of those rare instances where I enjoy being wrong  . I sincerely hope that this lady is the one for you.

In the interests of keeping this board on the course the moderators have recently expressed interest in, I am going to keep my 'stories' and 'details'  of our whirlwind romance private, at least for the most part. 

Fathertime!

 

I must have missed something. What is wrong with posting about your personal life regarding your search for a latina wife? This thread did not result in any flames. If you don't want to talk about it, that's different and understandable. But how is this against the rules here? Isn't that what these forums are about- helping our fellow gringos?

[utopiacowboy]

"They can not find men like us down there that will treat them well and can provide some financial stability."

My wife didn't (and doesn't) need a man to provide financial stability. If I thought my wife was getting a man to provide "financial stability" I would never have married her. But each to his own. Just don't be surprised if such a woman comes here and finds that she can trade up. After all, if it's financial stability that she is looking for, there is quite a ladder that she can climb.

And by the way, there are plenty of Colombian men who treat women well and CAN provide financial stability. Most Colombian women, given a choice, would prefer a Colombiano and to stay in their own country.

[Alabamaboy!]

I said the women are looking for "some financial stability" not "looking for as much cash they can squeeze out of a guy by selling themselves".  It is a big difference to what you are insinuating and what I am talking about.  If you do not believe that the vast majority of the Colombianas dating gringos are looking at least for "some financial stability", then you are very naive.  If you do not believe me....read a bunch of the profiles at Jamie's place. A large number of them state right on their profiles of what they are interested in.  And they kind of go along the lines of "I like dancing, spending time with my family, and would like to have an opportunity to have a better life".  What do you think that means?  Financial stability.  I am not saying they are bitches. But they do not want to be starving to death or living in a slum either. It does not automatically mean that the girl is going to marry a Gringo....come here....and leave him for the next guy that walks by with a fatter wallet.  They are looking for a little security, not hit the Super Lotto. If I was a Colombiana who is honest enough to admit she is looking for a nice guy who can provide at least some degree of fiancial stability, I would be very offended with your statement about "trading up" and "climbing the ladder" as you mentioned.

If I was 60 and she was 20.  Or if I was very homely looking, could not satisfy her sexually, or did not have anything in common with her...that would be a different story completely.  Then I could expect those things that you are describing might happen more easily.  But I am rather fit, OK looking, good chemistry in the sack, lots of things in common, get along great with the family and she with mine.  So I am not worrying too much about it.  If she wants to get here and turn into a bitch at that time....I cannot stop her. And you can bet I will be more than glad to get rid of her too!!  And I am pretty sure there are a lot wealthier guys than me visiting Colombia at this time and she is not with them. 


I would be more concerned if my wife was demanding to work outside the home when there is no real financial reason for doing so.  That would make me wonder why.  Maybe she had a secret plan to just come here and work to save enough money to leave me for the boss man at her work.  It can happen as easily as that.  As a matter of fact I was just reading on CNN or somewhere that showed that over 40% of cheating on spouses happens at work. Hmmmmmmmm.......

And if you think that most women would rather marry a Colombian, you are dreaming.  Jamie's agency has to be the most successful and well known of all of them in Colombia. And if you look about 1/2 way down the first page on his website under "WHY YOU?"....it pretty much says it all.  And I was told the same exact things by almost every single Colombiana I have met, whether it be Bucaramanga, Cali, Barranquilla, Cartagena, or Santa Marta.  If my girl wanted to be with a rich Colombian man, she could...right now....very easily.  She can get pretty much whatever guy she wants there.  But they are infamous for treating their women badly. That is a fact.  Ask around.  And please do not jump me by saying that.  I am not saying that every single Colombian guy is like that of course.  But the vast majority.  I was shocked when I talked to regular guys that were married with nice wives there and they are telling me stories about their other girlfriends (multiple).  And these were businessmen who appear to be the cream of the crop there.

I will agree with you that most do not want to leave Colombia.....hell, neither did I!  But they are not really interested in the men there.  That is for sure.

I think the difference between you and me is that you were obviously looking for something a little different than I was.  Someone with a degree, profession, a little more sophisticated than I need.  I am simply looking for a woman with a good heart, lots of love, energy, eager to build a beautiful family, likes to do simple things.  I don't want to talk about politics or have her come home tired from work.  I don't want her to be worrying about nothing else than having a happy household, raising our children, and having as much fun as possible in a loving relationship.  Nothing else.  I do not need help paying the bills or taking care of technical issues.  If I wanted a woman who is interested in climbing the "corporate ladder"...there are millions of them here in the States.  I believe they are infinitely more dangerous than the women I have been talking to in Colombia.

I know that kind of lifestyle I can provide and want to have with my wife and family is not acceptable for many women....especially about 99.9% of all American Women.

And that is why I am looking in Colombia.

[fathertime]

Fathertime,

This is one of those rare instances where I enjoy being wrong  . I sincerely hope that this lady is the one for you.


I must have missed something. What is wrong with posting about your personal life regarding your search for a latina wife? This thread did not result in any flames. If you don't want to talk about it, that's different and understandable. But how is this against the rules here? Isn't that what these forums are about- helping our fellow gringos?

Thanks zackaroni! 

I was just stirring the pot a bit since I am not happy with the direction the moderators are proposing to send this board in! 

By the way,  Does anybody know why good old Paps is being moderated again?  He was really posting very good and pertinent information lately! Helping newbies too?  What did he post that was so bad?

Fathertime!

[catz]

I was just stirring the pot a bit since I am not happy with the direction the moderators are proposing to send this board in!

The only direction that has been mentioned is to take the locker room behavior out of the forum. If you cannot or will not see how that is a beneficial direction to take for the good of ALL members and you prefer that style please feel free to start your own. We wish you the best of luck in that endeavor.

[utopiacowboy]

"And if you think that most women would rather marry a Colombian, you are dreaming."

Right. They would rather get hooked up with a pudgy, balding gringo who can barely speak Spanish than someone from their own culture and country. I am not the one who is dreaming but then I don't have fantasies of rescuing some damsel in distress. If the only women you meet are in agencies looking to hook up with a gringo or poverty-stricken women from the lower classes, you're going to hear all sorts of nonsense from them. Given a choice the vast majority of Colombian women would prefer a Colombiano.

[Dan]

Thanks zackaroni! 

I was just stirring the pot a bit since I am not happy with the direction the moderators are proposing to send this board in! 

By the way,  Does anybody know why good old Paps is being moderated again?  He was really posting very good and pertinent information lately! Helping newbies too?  What did he post that was so bad?

Fathertime!

FT,

papi decided to direct a personal insult to one of the staff members here. It was uncalled-for and unprovoked. That staff member slapped the 'Moderated' status on papi - but I decided we've had enough, and banned him permanently.

There are a few things I have zero tolerance for - and this is one of them. The guys who volunteer their time to help keep a modicum of civility here at PL, do not deserve to be treated badly - and I will not allow it.

In this instance, there is no doubt in my mind that papi knew exactly what he was doing - and did it anyway. Fair enough. In effect, papi made the choice to ban himself, as he knew the consequences when he sent the insulting post.

- Dan

[Alabamaboy!]

I am sorry Utopiacowboy, but that is not been my experience. I have talked to women from all walks of life there...except for the ultra rich.  And with all of them, they have been saying the same story.....in general.......Colombian men are not good husbands.    Remember...I am not saying this...they are.  And they are not all agency women.  Many are relatives and friends of my girl.  Many are girls I have talked to in the stores, at parties, and on places like Amigos.com.

And who is talking about Colombians hooking up with pudgy, balding Gringos?  I am talking about that if a woman has the option of hooking up with a Gringo who is more or less equal in looks to a Colombian guy, she will almost always choose the Gringo.  I feel it is at least partly due to our good reputation as husbands as indicated on Jamie's website and from what I hear from the women themselves.

Your experiences may vary. 

Especially since it is true that I have mostly been talking to women from the lower upper class and down.  I have not talked to anyone who I would consider higher than the "lower upper class".

But I will say that all the University Master's degree level aunts of my girl (4 of them)...who range in age from mid 20's to early 40's are asking if I know any Gringos who may be interested in a relationship.  And a couple of them even have Colombian boyfriends who are non-commital, flirtatous, etc.  So take that for what it is worth.

I just want to give some additional information to the folks out there from what you have experienced.

[CarolinaJ]

FT,

papi decided to direct a personal insult to one of the staff members here. It was uncalled-for and unprovoked. That staff member slapped the 'Moderated' status on papi - but I decided we've had enough, and banned him permanently.

There are a few things I have zero tolerance for - and this is one of them. The guys who volunteer their time to help keep a modicum of civility here at PL, do not deserve to be treated badly - and I will not allow it.

In this instance, there is no doubt in my mind that papi knew exactly what he was doing - and did it anyway. Fair enough. In effect, papi made the choice to ban himself, as he knew the consequences when he sent the insulting post.

- Dan

I am fairly new and i know Paps can be a little insulting but he was a great addition to the board. This board has a lot of experience and they see some things from the same point of view BUT Papi brought his unique perspective and it was a good balance to everyone else. Who wants everyone to have the same opinion....not me. As long as he is not insulting the staff IN HIS POSTS then you ought to be grown up enough to leave your personal lives out of it. I think you are a little overly sensative!!! 

[Alabamaboy!]

Yeah....I do not know Papi either, but it seems that he and PDaddy give some different flavor to the board than some of the other posters.

[sean126]

As long as he is not insulting the staff IN HIS POSTS then you ought to be grown up enough to leave your personal lives out of it. I think you are a little overly sensative!!! 

It was in his post on the public forum.  We removed it.  No, we aren't putting it back up or discussing it's contents.

Personally, I think there was more BS than valuable info coming from him. I also like Papi, I still do...but he purposely brings a lot of this stuff on himself.  Why he purposely does it...I don't know.  You would have had to read his posts for a long time to see what we're talking about.   If it's warnings your referring to as a unique perspective...several of us warn of the exact same things, but with logic, temperance and common sense.  

If being overly sensitive means keeping the tone of the board that we are shooting for then yes....we are overly sensitive. 

[el bandito]

I like Papi's posts, irreverent though some of it may be sometimes. It's a shame he's gone.    Can he apologize and get back on, with close supervision?

Isn't there a better solution and better compromise than moderating people and then banning them altogether?

Why not just remove or redact any offending or insulting parts or portions, without notice or warning? People will just stop any allegedly offending language on their own, if they see it simply disappear from their posts on a regular basis.

This can apply to everybody's posts which might even arguably be personally insulting or offending to anyone else ("insulting" in the judgment of moderator).

That way, we get everyone's good opinions and information only, and only on all topics relevant to this discussion board, and without the bull.

I agree that certain other boards died a worthy death (but which demise took a little too long IMO) because the owners and moderators thought that First Amendment "free speech" protected everything included endless personal insults and offensive language, and uncivilized and uncouth behavior which was not restrained or moderated in any way.

[sean126]

There is a better solution than moderating and banning...the burden falls on the posters themselves.  It's called maturity, common sense, following the rules...ect.