Life in SA

[bp]

Even though this is tangential to my last thread, I figured I should start a new one as I'm settled on SA and have questions about life in general rather than specifically meeting women.

Ok, I've been reading some old posts on the board (at least the last dozen pages or so), and I'm not really any closer to having a better grasp on what I should be looking for in SA. What I've gathered from the board is that Colombia is rather popular, and has the most agency presence, though it's also probably the most dangerous and the people are the most materialistic. Peru is probably a strong second choice, as it has probably the second strongest agency presence, but the social scene is much less active. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

Also, I'm not sure which country would be best for me. This is my current situation. I'm 29 years old and considering moving to SA for a couple years. I'm not wealthy, but I've heard that one can live pretty decent on $15,000 a year in most parts of SA. I figured it would be a nice change of scenery. My work is flexible enough where I can do this, as long as I'm reachable by email.

I have a good life, and don't necessarily worry about money (though I do work for it), but I don't expect to ever be a millionaire. I live a pretty simple life, overall. I don't want to end up in a place where wealth is (over)valued, as I wouldn't enjoy that scene. Not to mention, women who are into that would probably not be interested in me. A decent agency presence would be nice as well. I know people have warned against it, but I'd still like to check out a social or two, just to see what they are like.

And speaking of social, a place where salsa dancing is popular would be nice. A friend taught me a bit recently, and I plan to pursue it. As for other things, I'm pretty open to trying new things, so a happening place would be cool. I particularly like the theater and other stage entertainment. And if it's generally safe, that definitely would be a plus. Also, I wouldn't be leaving for about a year or so. In the meantime, I plan to regain my fluency in Spanish, so language shouldn't be a problem.

What countries/regions/cities would you all recommend? Is there any other information about myself that I should provide in order to make it easier to give advice? Thanks.

[utopiacowboy]

Medellin.

[Kiltboy1]

For 15K a year you can live in Colombia, Peru or Ecuador ok, but it is not as cheap as people might lead you to believe. 15K is bear minimum I think and there are many tack on fee's for apartment rentals, ect. A more realistic number would be 20K to live a somewhat middle class lifestyle in those countries.Even in ecuador, which of the 3 countries i mentioned would be the least expensive, 15K would only put you in a strata 3 place . Food is the cheap thing in Ecuador, but the other costs are not as cheap as one would think. If you are used to a one bedroom apartment here in the states, then you would be fine. But if you are used to a nice  2BR or a house, ect, car, 15K will not cut it.

KB

[bp]

Medellin.

utopiacowboy, why do you suggest Medellin?

As for the $, I can probably swing $20K/yr. I'm less concerned about that and more concerned with the "best" place for me to go.

[singlefather no more]

bp,

UTC mentions Medellin because that is where his wife is from... The women are called paisa's and are some of hottest and smartest women in the world... UTC sister-in-law is a past Miss Colombia I believe...

Poor UTC cannot drive a car if she were in the front seat , her legs are very distracting he has said.... If you are willing to accept a woman with kids you can find many very beautiful Latinas.. If not you can find many very beautiful Latinas also.. lol

singlefather

[Kiltboy1]

Yep

Medellin would be a great choice. Cost of living is less then say Bogota and much safer then Cali. Barranquilla would also be a good choice if you like the coast and if you are interested in a smaller city, Bucaramanga and Montaria could be a goldmine at low prices.

KB

[Jeff S]

I've heard Panama is quite the place to live. You can easily travel to the happy hunting grounds for weekend or weeklong jaunts. Here's a good resource for living overseas: http://www.escapeartist.com/

[Patrick]

BP,

Do you speak Spanish?  Have you ever visited South America?  I think you're jumping the gun a bit by considering a move there unless you've already visited the place.  Why not go down for a couple of weeks to check out the scene & get your feet wet?  That's a lot more realistic than planning a move to a place you've never been to.

[bp]

Medellin would be a great choice.

Now I'm a bit confused. From what I've read on the board, it seems that Medellin places a larger emphasis on material wealth, and also there is a larger proportion of people just playing each other. I've often read (on the board) that it is compared with Miami, in terms of culture. Of all the places in America for a place to be compared, I'd think Miami is one of the worst. (Sorry, I couldn't think of a nicer way to say that, but I'm originally an East Coaster, so I should get points for trying. ) Also, intelligent women are a must. I get bored too fast with just a pretty face.

As for it being safer than Cali, I don't know if that's saying much. Isn't Medellin the second most dangerous place for a gringo in Colombia?

I've heard Panama is quite the place to live.

Actually, some of my friends are from various parts of Panama, and (to put it gently) they aren't too fond of the place. Furthermore, there's not much by way of agencies in Panama. Not that I'm dead set on an agency, but I'd still like to check a few of them out.

Do you speak Spanish?  Have you ever visited South America?  I think you're jumping the gun a bit by considering a move there unless you've already visited the place.  Why not go down for a couple of weeks to check out the scene & get your feet wet?  That's a lot more realistic than planning a move to a place you've never been to.

I mentioned in my first post that I've been brushing up on my Spanish, and expect to be fluent again by the time I leave. I've never been to SA, but I've been picking up and moving to places I've never been to for over 10 years now. Besides, it would only be for a year or two, so even if I don't like it, it's not a huge loss. And, if it's really bad, I can just leave. However, I'd like to do as much research on locations beforehand as I can, hopefully finding a place that I am most likely going to enjoy, hence looking for advice here.

Also, I don't really think it's jumping the gun if I'm planning a move that isn't going to happen for another year.

By the way, I just realized something. I notice that quite a few active members of this board are already married to SA women. Why don't your wives participate on the boards?

[michaelb]

My wife doesn't for two reasons: Lack of English and "Don't want to put my business out for everyone to see". Others have their own reasons, I'm sure, which may or may not be similar.

[catz]

My wife has made a few posts on another board but generally finds the locker room behavior, talk, and attitudes of many on these boards something that she does not care for. To her it is more like a bunch of children fighting over nothing than adults conversing.

FWIW

[william3rd]

sigh- when the Yahoo boards closed, there was nothing but desolation.

Then- shining in the distance like a beacon- was Planet-Love.

A place of refuge and light- so that the children in men's bodies still have a place to talk smack and occasionally impart pearls of wisdom, where centaurs and forum gods walk together and speak of a new renaissance.

Where heterosexuality is still revered, a place where the gipper is still alive. .

Uhhh- can you think of anything that I forgot to say? Other than that I can't remember why I wrote it.

[catz]

Uhhh- can you think of anything that I forgot to say? Other than that I can't remember why I wrote it.

Where real men gather and fart jokes are still funny.

... that's about the only thing you missed I think. 

[william3rd]

Thanks, katz-  I knew I had forgotten  something. . . . .

[EbonyPrince]

Thus far I have only been to Barranquilla and Cartagena, but I have talked to a few Colombians from various parts of Colombia.  I enjoyed Barranquilla on my visits, but I wouldn't recommend it for living.  There isn't much to do there, although Cartagena is about an hour away. 

Cartagena is a multi-cultural city with a lot of life and atmosphere.  It is a very romantic city at night.  It is also a very safe city with a lot of military and police. 

I have heard that Bucaramanga had the most and beautiful parks if you like nature.  The people that I met from there also seemed to be very sincere people.  I have heard from everyone that I have spoken to that Medellin is definately the place to be.  It supposedly has a European feel to it, and I hear it is a very clean city.  A friend of mine is married to a Colombiana from Monteria.  He visited there once I believe, and I don't remember him saying anything special about it.  I thought he mentioned it was in or near the jungle.  He didn't mention anything negative, but I don't believe there was anything memorable either.

I will be heading to Manizales in a few weeks.  Apparently the city and its nearby sister cities are very small, but I hear there is a lot of natural beauty there.  From what I have read, there's hiking, skiing, and other outdoor activities to do.  I also hear the people are very nice and reserved. The women are also paisas, and I hear that they are the most conservative.  I will give a full report upon my return.

[utopiacowboy]

My wife can't speak English but even if she could, I doubt that she would post.

I am partial to Medellin because it's a lovely modern city ringed by towering mountains with a climate that negates the need for either heat or air conditioning, the people are hard working and friendly, and the women are the most beautiful on earth.

As for Monteria, I've been several times since my mother-in-law lives there. It's hot and humid and the city lacks all the charms that Medellin has. It's full of cars, motos, people on bicycles and pedestrians all making as much noise as they possibly can. There are clouds of dust everywhere. It reminds me of a city in a war zone filled with refugees although in fact, it has very little crime and a gringo can walk around everywhere even at night. People like to sit out on the sidewalk in the evening and play cards or talk to passersby. So it does have its good points.

[Montrealer]

I've been living in Barranquilla for over a year now and I like it, but I'm sure other cities have more to do and are much nicer to live.  But if you do come to Barranquilla, at least you'll have someone your age to hang out with (I just turned 30 this past month).  I wrote a report on what life is down here and what are the costs of living where I am.  I posted the link below in case you haven't read it.

http://www.planet-love.com/forum/index.php?topic=1867.0

Best of luck

[bp]

I am partial to Medellin because it's a lovely modern city ringed by towering mountains with a climate that negates the need for either heat or air conditioning

This, I like. I've grown so used to New England winters (I don't even wear a winter jacket anymore) that the thought of living so close to the equator concerns me.

I've been living in Barranquilla for over a year now and I like it, but I'm sure other cities have more to do and are much nicer to live.

I've read your report. I still have some questions, though. What is the climate like? Also, what is the nightlife like? Furthermore, you said that security is a problem? Can you elaborate?

-------

I appreciate everyone's input thus far. As is, it seems that Cartagena, Medellin, and Barranquilla are the top contenders for Colombia. I'll have to look at some more trip reports.

[EbonyPrince]

Barranquilla is hot and humid.  Cartagena is hot as hell (well maybe close .  The best weather times that I noticed there were during what we consider spring months here when there is a constant breeze from the ocean.  In Cartagena you can get by wearing shorts, but I don't think that I would consider that anywhere else.

[bp]

For the weather alone, I'm leaning towards Medellin, though I've yet to find any info on environmental conditions (smog, air quality, pollution levels, etc.). Still, I read this:

http://www.climate-zone.com/climate/colombia/fahrenheit/medellin.htm

and was pretty much sold.

EDIT: Actually, I finally found some stats for Cali, and it seems pretty nice, too. Or, at least survivable for a New Englander.

I get the impression from the boards that Medellin is not the place for a gringo looking to do a little social networking. Specifically, I read that there are no virtually no introduction agencies that work through Medellin (except for a really disreputable one) and that pretty much anywhere else would be more popular. On the other hand, I did some googling, and have found a few different agencies operating through Medellin.

http://www.colombiansweethearts.com/schedule.php
http://www.medellinwomen.com/tour/medellin/medellin.shtml
http://www.allcolombianwomen.com/latin_bride.html

and apparently, AFA gets there, too. Also, that first site seems to have quite a few clones on the web like AFA does. I get the impression that these are the types of agencies one should avoid. But the other two look a fair bit better, no?

Also, there was a lot of back and forth in some of the (Medellin) trip reports I read. One of the biggest points of contention involves safety.

I think the most concrete bit of info I've seen was this (posted by doombug):

Sure, Barranquilla and Cartagena have lower numbers, but they've also gone up a bit, where as Medellin is experiencing a decline. Of course, this could always be a bit of a fluke, but still, 523 murders among 2.4 mil people is pretty solid. It's probably lower than New York or even Boston, so I don't think I need to worry if I'm careful.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

[Patrick]

Any thoughts?

You should convert the table to homicides per capita.  You seem to have taken population into account in at least a comment, but that table appears to be raw homicides, which are meaningless for comparing levels of safety.

How many countries have you lived in?

[william3rd]

Two of the agencies you posted are either the scumbag tour agency AFA in disguise or linked through their tour program. You will find hundreds of agencies that are "stealth" agencies for AFA, loveme.com, beautifulbrides, etc.

I would add foreignladies.com which is either an experimental version of a new idea by that company or a subsidiary.

AFA cannot hide their links to KISS4impact also known as K4I. K4I is/was a subsidiary involved in the porn industry. They had film studios in Costa Rica and St. Petersburg, Russia and had another porn studio for awhile in Arizona..

I just talked to yet another of their former employees last week. They are operating a boiler room with a bunch of college kids at $600 a week to sell their tour packages. All the girls are magnificent, screened, given their shots, perfect wives, fed on a science diet, etc.

There is a lot more that I could be saying but other than- where there is smoke, there is fire. Be careful!!!!!!!

There are other postings on them on this and other sites so you may want to look there. Primarily dealing with their Russian tours. Try facesofsiberia.com. Look under news.

[bp]

Side note, I dropped a post in "Intros and Ice-Breakers", as I think I should disclose more info about myself and that forum is the appropriate place to do so.

Good point, Patrick, I seem to have overlooked that. Using population data from:

http://www.citypopulation.de/Colombia.html

I get the following results:


CITY         Mdr/100K
Cali           52.34
Barranquilla   26.41
Medellin       23.61
Cartagena      22.99
Bogota         14.16


Bogota's population is much larger than I expected, being a little over 7mil compared to the one or two mil of the other cities.

The high numbers for Cali are a little discouraging. From what I gathered, Medellin and Cali (respectively) had the most comfortable climates (weather-wise), and Cali had more agencies, too. Then again, is 52 murders per 100,000 that high? I just started looking at some UCRs, and see that NYC hasn't had more than 10 murders per 100k since 1994. Actually, it's higher than any major city in the US in 2006. On the other hand, the other cities are lower than the top 10 US cities for murder, by at least 10 murders per 100k.

Side note, New Orleans was higher than Cali, and this was even before Katrina. See for yourself:

http://sauce1977.livejournal.com/204506.html

AFA cannot hide their links to KISS4impact also known as K4I. K4I is/was a subsidiary involved in the porn industry. They had film studios in Costa Rica and St. Petersburg, Russia and had another porn studio for awhile in Arizona.

Wow...I did not know that. 

[utopiacowboy]

You seem to be making a determination as to which city to go to before you've even seen them? I would check out the ones which interested me and have a look at them myself. You might be surprised. Cali is easily the most dangerous city in Colombia but I wouldn't let that fact alone deter me from going there if it was a city that appealed to me. As a tourist or casual visitor it is unlikely that you are going to be the target of a violent crime and there is much you can do by behaving sensibly that will lessen what chance there is.

[bp]

You seem to be making a determination as to which city to go to before you've even seen them?

I kind of have to. Once I pick a location I can get a grant to finance the trip. However, if I want to tour around and check out the various cities for myself, that's on my own dime, and just can afford that.

Overall, I'm not -overly- concerned about safety. I mean, look at the numbers. I would never have thought twice about my safety if I were to go to New Orleans, but apparently it's about three times more dangerous than Barranquilla, Medellin, and Cartagena, and more than four times more dangerous than Bogota.

Of course, we're equating danger to homicide rates. Muggings and other violent crimes aren't thrown into the equation.

But, getting back to the point. I have to pick a city before I take the trip, and that will most likely be the city I use for the research. I'm hoping that by throwing questions out into the community, I can get a good feel as to what I can expect in each city and make the best decision that I can make without taking a trip myself.