Can you have a wedding there and still use the Fiancee visa route?

[fourholesn1]

I was just wondering about this. If my gf was to apply for a fiancee visa in April and then we got married in Thailand in July would that cause any problems with the visa? I'm thinking marriage there to satisfy her and her family and Vegas marriage here to be legal here. I'm thinking if we waited until July to apply for the marriage visa then she would get here later than applying for the fiancee visa in April. Advice?

[Jeff S]

No. It's major fraud, and if the BCIS sniffed it, you could be in HUGE trouble - you may never get her here. This has been discussed at length search "fake wedding ceremonies."

- Jeff

[william3rd]

Thailand is one of those countries where it requires a certificate filed with the "county" registering the marriage to be married. The initial documentation is submitted to the US consulate for their declaration. If you don t have that, you cannot enter into a binding civil marriage in thailand. If you do have that doc, then any fiancee visa that arrives will be scrutinized.

Bottom line is that you can do the village ceremony with her with all the drums and horns, etc. Take the pictures to your interview. Very cool. Just do not file the marriage or complete any form that leads to that certification

THen you are oK for your K1.

[fourholesn1]

Thanks for the input guys. Which path do you think would get her here quickest, fiancee visa app in April or real marriage in TL in July followed by marriage visa app?

[Ray]

holes,

I would stop thinking ‘how can I get her here quickest’ and choose which way is right for you and your lady.

Fiancée visas are for marriage in the states and spousal visas are for marriage over there. You can’t have it both ways.

To answer you last question, in your case the fiancée visa would likely beat the spouse visa by maybe 9 months (?). But I would recommend doing what you can to make your bride happy. Does she want the visa faster or a wedding at home? Believe me, the extra wait won’t kill you.

One alternative that some folks choose is a fiancée visa with a quick marriage here and then a return trip home later after she has her Green Card for a traditional or religious wedding ceremony over there.

Ray

[william3rd]

Is she pushing for the piece of paper showing a legal marriage or is she pushing for a big ceremony in front of family?

Did you find out about the dowry yet?

Important difference in what she is asking. . . . 

[fourholesn1]

She just wants to have a small ceremony with family. I did ask about the dowry and she said "I am not something to be bought". But when I asked if her sister's husbands gave a dowry she said yes so mixed signals and I still need to work that out. But this is all "what if" right now, we won't meet in person until Dec 26th in Hanoi (but she lives in Bangkok).

Ray, that's a good point, I need to know if making it legal in Thailand is important to her. My thinking was ceremony there while the fiancee visa was in process but don't file the paperwork to make it legal but I'm assuming that being a legal marriage in TL is not important to her and that could be wrong.

Here's a related question. If we didn't make it legal in TL and then 10 years from now we live in TL part of the year would there be any problems with not being legally married there even though we would be legally married here?

[william3rd]

you will be legally married there after a marriage here. they recognize US marriages.

If her family is not asking for a dowry, then that is great.

The legal marriage in thailand is a one-two day process that starts in Bangkok.
There will be at least 4 stops in Bangkok, including a trip to the US consulate.

Easiest way- Village ceremony with brahman or monks for her family. Marry in Vegas when she gets here and that is it.

[Jeff S]

If she inadvertently tells the US interviewer that she's married and is trying to come in on a K1, then all bets are off - and unless she's an accomplished liar that might be hard to do. I'd suggest, as Ray said, bring her here, get married in front of a JP or in Vegas, than go home and do it up big in her home town in front of everyone. No need to make it legal in Thailand then since she'll have been married here already.

[william3rd]

she can carry the pictures of the village wedding ceremony with her to the K interview and show them to the interviewer!!!!!!!

To legally marry in Thailand, you have to get a document from the US consulate before you can file the Thai papers. If they do not have the document on file in the consulate, there is no question that the 2 are not married under Thai law.

Unlike marriages in some countries where the act of marriage in a church is a binding marriage in the eyes of the state, Thailand recognizes a civil marriage only as representing a valid marriage.

[fourholesn1]

That's an interesting idea....get married here and then go back there for a ceremony later. I'll have to ask her about that. William, that is good to know that the Consulate won't care about a non-official ceremony, that might be fit our plans perfectly.

She's planning to come here in April if things go well in Vietnam.....maybe I'll whisk her off the Vegas then!

[william3rd]

I am doing the marriage ceremony with the monks at our house in January.

She might get her fiancee interview by march if we are lucky and then we can be back in Thailand by July for a month

[fourholesn1]

William, when did you apply for the fiancee visa? What's the current lead times for that?

[michaelb]

we won't meet in person until Dec 26th in Hanoi

I hope you don't mean meet in person for the first time.
I hope you mean "meet in person again on December 26". 'Cause if you don't mean again, I wouldn't be scheduling any wedding until you do.

BTW, you do realize that you can't file for the K-1 until you have actually met in person.....you did know that, didn't you?

[michaelb]

Unlike marriages in some countries where the act of marriage in a church is a binding marriage in the eyes of the state, Thailand recognizes a civil marriage only as representing a valid marriage.

"I don't know what these woman are complaining about. I gave everyone of them a good Catholic wedding."   Pancho Villa (note that he was careful to give none of them a civil wedding--ha ha.

[fourholesn1]

Michael, yeah just meeting for the first time in Dec but this discussion is just a hypothetical. If things go well in Dec and then she comes here in April and that goes well then maybe at that point we might file for the K-1. Lot's of Ifs but I like to know what the options are just in case.

[william3rd]

Do not count on april. It depends on the service center backlog and they have been quite long lately. We are at 5 months at CSC right now.

[Ray]

holes,

I think some of us are a little confused because you mentioned that she would apply for a fiancée visa in April and travel here to visit you in April.

Just to make sure you know how the fiancée (K-1) visa works, it isn’t something that she can just apply for on her own. You as an American citizen must first meet her in person, then file a petition here with immigration (CIS). If your petition is approved, then she will apply for a fiancée visa, get a medical exam, and be interviewed in person at the U.S. consulate. If all goes well, it will probably take somewhere around 9 months or more for the whole process from the time you file the petition until she has a visa. Then she can travel here and she must marry you within 90 days of her arrival.

If you marry overseas, then you can file a petition for her as your spouse when you return home. The spouse (CR-1) visa will probably take a little longer, maybe about a year or a little less.

I was just curious... why you are meeting her in Hanoi instead of in Bankok?

Ray

[fourholesn1]

Guys, sorry for the confusion. The plan is to meet in Vietnam for an 11 day vacation and see how it goes. Ray, the reason for Vietnam is that my strategy for looking for a wife is to combine it with having a great vacation and I was in Bangkok for 2 weeks last August so I wanted to go somewhere else this time. Also, I think getting away for 11 days together is a really good way to see if you're going to like each other. Since Vietnam is so inexpensive I don't mind booking two hotel rooms so this way she is right there and we can be together the maximum amount of time.

So.....then if this works out she would come here for a week+ for a vacation in April. I think she can get a tourist visa, she owns her own home and has a good job with an American company. She has also traveled to Japan and Australia for vacations in the past. Anyone think she wouldn't be able to get the tourist visa?

So after her visit here in April, and if it goes well, then we would apply for the K-1. I was thinking it would be the end of the year (2008) roughly before she would be approved and so I would plan to visit her in July or Aug. Since she wants a small wedding ceremony I was thinking we could do it then without making it legal. However, after the comments from you guys I will talk to her about having a wedding ceremony after we marry here. Also, she may be happy with an engagement party in July instead of a wedding.

As I said, this is all just what if talk but if things go well in Vietnam I'd like to be able to talk to her about the next step and know what the options are.   

[william3rd]

Worst that will happen is that they will say no to the tourist visa. Give it a try.

[Ray]

She can certainly try for a tourist visa, but she may very well be denied if the purpose of her visit is to meet her American fiancé.

Since she is a single female possibly expecting to apply for a fiancée visa, that makes her an intending immigrant and subject to denial. Anyway, it will cost her $100 to find out.
 
If she is coming here for a vacation and is funding her own trip then she has a decent chance for approval. Just don’t purchase any non-refundable plane tickets until she has the visa in hand.   

I never considered Hanoi as a vacation spot but if it's a good bargain what the heck. If it were me I think I would want to meet her family and friends before deciding to marry. How does her family feel about her traveling to another country to meet a man for the first time?

[fourholesn1]

Hey Ray, from what I've read Hanoi is a great place to visit. We're going to do a 2 day cruise through Halong Bay on the Santa Maria (www.columbuscruise.com), that should be great. We're spending a couple of days in Hanoi, Hoi An, and Saigon. After reading up on VN I really think it's a great vacation choice. And as an American who grew up hearing the latest on the war every night on the news it has a certain fascination for me. Can't wait to see the Museum of American War Crimes! 

Regarding how her family feels about her traveling to another country to meet a guy, well I think she is telling them even as I speak, er, type. But she is 40 and has been on her own for 20 years and I haven't gotten the impression that she is worried about their opinion too much. She has indicated that they will be happy she has some sort of relationship going. I think they are worried she will never marry.

If she applies for a tourist visa why can't she just say she is going to the US to see the sights and visit a friend? It's within her finances to do that and essentially the truth. At that point she won't be my fiancee, a girlfriend maybe but that's all. Maybe a fiancee before she goes home.

[william3rd]

and the name address and telephone number of the friend is. . . . .

[fourholesn1]

I am the friend of course. Is that a bad idea to say she is going to visit me, a friend? Would she have a better chance saying she is not going to visit anyone? Or better to use the name of a Thai woman here that I know? I've wondered if she could claim it is a business trip since she works for an American company but if they checked that story out she'd be in trouble.

[michaelb]

Bad idea to say she is visiting a U.S. citizen single male friend. The people who give out the visas weren't born yesterday. But your business trip mention caught my eye. No, don't lie about it, but wonder if her company could find a (legitimate) business reason to send her....worth checking into and they may even cover (all of? some of?) the expenses.