Questions and Answers

[David]

Soltero, this is what made me think that:

Yep, that's the ticket! Hang out in bars and look for the hottest possible chicks you can get.

I guess it goes to show you how different many of us really are.

Sean, thanks for the spotting UC's nice example of romance.

Ruso, I have trouble NOT falling in love with a pic because it seems that my dream girl is just a step away. I know its important to meet the woman and find out what she's like and if she is the woman for you.

[soltero]

Ok, David, I'll give you that even though he was being facetious and sarcastic. I think he may have taken El Ruso's comment the wrong way. It did sound a little strange, especially coming from El Ruso. I don't see him as the "pick women up in bars" type, but I assume he was making a point in there being other avenues open to a Spanish speaker besides the agencies.

Every now and then, some grad student writing a thesis or reporter may venture here with a million questions to make the "lab rats" run through mazes. They usually already have determined what kind of people head across borders looking for partners, and something like what you said eventually starts creeping up as they already have a negative opinion of us and are fishing for verification of that opinion. 

[Ray]

Further, she certainly may get a tourist visa to come here to visit.  Scores of Colombians do, but a lot are turned away as well.  It depends on her finances, her employment, her family, whether she has traveled abroad before.  If a girl has a job, has money in the bank, and especially if she has been before to 1st world country and returned, she should get a visa without a problem.  This will definitely make things easier.  And then if things work out, you can get married here and she will apply for residency.

If the tourist visa is not possible, you have an option of marrying her there and bringing her here, or bringing her here as a "fiancee" and marrying her within three months.  Both options are expensive and time-consuming, so be aware of that.

Using a tourist visa to bypass the "expensive and time-consuming" fiancée or spousal visa process is visa fraud.

Forget the shortcuts and do it the right way.

[fathertime]

Quote from: el_ruso on Today at 01:43:31 PM

Further, she certainly may get a tourist visa to come here to visit.  Scores of Colombians do, but a lot are turned away as well.  It depends on her finances, her employment, her family, whether she has traveled abroad before.  If a girl has a job, has money in the bank, and especially if she has been before to 1st world country and returned, she should get a visa without a problem.  This will definitely make things easier.  And then if things work out, you can get married here and she will apply for residency.

If the tourist visa is not possible, you have an option of marrying her there and bringing her here, or bringing her here as a "fiancee" and marrying her within three months.  Both options are expensive and time-consuming, so be aware of that.

From what I have been told and understand, if a woman were to come here on a "Tourist visa" with the intent to marry, she can be denied and sent back to Colombia to reapply for the proper visa.  This could occur even if your are already married, since this is a form of visa fraud. 

Perhaps if someone is a good liar under pressure, you will get away with this stunt...but I don't think it is a very good idea to advise people to do it here. 

Fathertime!

[jm21-2]

I think Jeff's remark was fairly justified based on Ruso's post. To many of us who are on the west coast and more conservative (at least), suggesting picking up girls at clubs and looking for the most attractive woman you can get, is kind of humorous. It's about the last way I would suggest looking fo a potential wife. I think the perceptions of clubs is different in other places, but the opinion of them where I grew up was about as low as it gets. I've yet to meet a high quality girl who'd give out her real name and number to a guy she met at a club. I think this is a little more acceptable in SA, but don't know for sure.

Jeff is a pretty high class guy and I think you can safely assume that he was not suggesting to pick up the hottest girl you can find at a bar.

[el_ruso]

Dave,

1. My comment was not limited to clubs, but they are an option.  Many Latin women go to clubs to socialize and dance, rather than get drunk and get laid.  Some do the latter, but not a lot.  Many come with their mothers, older sisters or aunts, especially if they are younger.  I would suggest though that if you are indeed looking for a L-T relationship this way you skip the tourist-oriented bohemian places, such as Mangos in Medellin.  Besides clubs there are many other places, such as stores, malls, etc.  A gringo will be a novelty, and probably the first non-colombian guy who has approached them.  In Latin culture it is normal for a guy to notice pretty girls and approach them in a friendly manner.  Also there is nothing wrong with going for hot girls.  Don't be ashamed of it.  You have only one life.  Why would you spend it with someone less than what you deserve and may have?  That's like buying a Corolla if you may have a Ferrari. Sure Ferrari is more expensive, may get stolen and probably breaks down more often, but I don't think anyone who has had one was ever sorry.

2. Regarding the tourist visa, it is not fraud the way I have suggested.  If a guy meets a girl as a tourist in Colombia, and the girl visits that guy while visiting the US later, how is #1 different from #2?  Are the gringos who go to Colombia "grooms"?  If while the girl is visiting the guy in the US he proposes and she accepts, it cannot be fraud because he didn't propose to her prior to her getting the visa and coming to visit him.  If the guy visited her first for say a week, does that mean that they will get married?  Of course not.  Not everyone gets married after dating each other for a week.  She might have hoped for it in the back of her mind, but she had no idea it will actually happen.  When she was applying for the tourist visa, they were at best boyfriend and girlfriend, and there is no "girlfriend visa" or a "female acquaintance visa".  There are visas for a wife and an official fiancee engaged to a US citizen, and if she neither, she may apply and get a TOURIST visa.  If the guy proposes to her in Colombia or elsewhere, and she applies for a tourist visa after that and fails to mention the fact, it might constitute fraud.  Also she might have met some guy here for the first time here while visiting the country, fallen in love and get married.  Those things do happen.  The obvious benefit is that you don't have to wait for months for her to come, and save a ton on visa processing, don't have to go to interviews at her embassy, etc. 

Also I would guess that if you get married the next day after her plane lands, the Immigration officials might indeed feel that you were trying to bypass the system illegally, which is not what I am suggesting.  You may use her trip as additional time to get to know her without any pressure, just as a regular bf/ gf relationship.  And if you two do fall in love with each other, you may propose to her say three months later and get a marriage certificate, that will allow her to apply for residency to stay with you.

In other words, if she is not officially engaged or married prior to coming to US, she is a tourist.  But she will have to show sufficient funds in the bank that would enable her to stay in US for two-three weeks - $2-3K, proof of a hotel reservation, preferably a plane ticket (return of course), and proof of a job to qualify.

[jm21-2]

That's like buying a Corolla if you may have a Ferrari. Sure Ferrari is more expensive, may get stolen and probably breaks down more often, but I don't think anyone who has had one was ever sorry.

People who spend to the limit of what they can afford (or more) tend to be very depressed, always at the edge of bankruptcy....alcoholism and chemical dependency are common. A slight change of circumstances and everything falls apart and you're left with nothing.

2007 models
Ferrari F430 Spider (I'm sure they're fun, but the maintenance...) - 216k
Toyota Corolla (OK, they pretty much suck) - 16k
Volvo S60 T5 (I like the way they handle, good amount of juice, very comfortable) - 31k

I'd much rather have an older audi or volvo than a ferrari....what a waste of money. for the price of a ferrari I could buy a condo in one of the less populated parts of the coast, a yacht, all sorts of toys, go out to eat every day, retire early....so many other things.

The same applies to women of course. Give me a smart, decent looking, fun, low upkeep girl any day of the week. Arm candy that costs its weight in gold is just as unappealing as a girl you make wear a paper bag over her head during sex.

[el_ruso]

JM, you make some good points.  I myself have an Audi, and am very happy with it.  I was going to bet the BMW, but I liked how the Audi handles and drives better, and they gave me a really good deal too, and I am very happy with it. The Volvo you mentioned is a good car too.

Ferraris are expensive, but not that expensive.  I don't think you can buy all those things for the price of a Ferrari V8.  If you are talking about V12 models, it's a different story, but people who buy those typically do already have a place to sleep, and the condo and the boat you could buy instead would have to be at the lower end of the market.

I actually had three small Mazdas before, they are rather cheap but well built and handle well, and I really enjoyed them.  If we do get married and she stays with me, I will probably get the Mazda 3 for the second car.

[Jeff S]

OK, quick poll - How many of you happily married guys out there who have been married more than three years, picked your soul mates out in bars by looking for the hottest one in the bar? Anyone?

[jm21-2]

Ferraris are expensive, but not that expensive.  I don't think you can buy all those things for the price of a Ferrari V8.  If you are talking about V12 models, it's a different story, but people who buy those typically do already have a place to sleep, and the condo and the boat you could buy instead would have to be at the lower end of the market.

OK, this is going off topic a bit but...

Cheapest bluebook for a 2007 ferrari = 178k

So at the minimum, you'd save 140k or so by buying a 2007 semi-luxury car...you could buy at least one of those things I mentioned for the difference. Now, if you're so concerned about image that you buy a ferrari...maybe you buy a new one every 5 years or so? Another 140k?

Anyways, a smallish condo at the beach in OR or WA can be had for a bit under 150k if you look around, an older 30ish foot yacht for much less than that ($70k would be a pretty nice one...$140k you could have some fun), if you put $140k in investments it would be a pretty nice nest egg in 10-20 years, a fairly nice house up here is only about $300k so you could have a pretty hefty down-payment, you could eat out at a modest restaurant ($20 per plate) 7000 times (or dinner out every night for almost 20 years)....

[Ray]

Regarding the tourist visa, it is not fraud the way I have suggested.

I beg to differ. Yes, it is fraud the way you suggested.

You suggested that marrying her in the States while she was here on a tourist visa and then adjusting status would “make things easier”, rather than doing it the “expensive and time-consuming” correct way. You presented your fraudulent method as the preferred way to do it unless the “tourist visa is not possible”.

If you want to play games and try to cheat the system, I couldn’t care less. But when you publicly offer advice to others to commit fraud then you are being irresponsible.

[el_ruso]

Ray, again, whatever I have suggested is not and cannot be anything related to fraud.  If a woman knowingly enters the US for the purpose of marriage to a US citizen, she has to apply to a fiancee visa.  If she enters the US as a wife of a US citizen, she has to apply for a spousal visa.  If she enters the US for the purpose of visiting the country and any friends or acquaintances she has in that country, she has to apply for a tourist visa.  If one of those friends falls in love with her and proposes to her, she had not known about it at the time of her interview.

All I did was explain differences between visas and when a tourist visa can be obtained.  But this is something that a guy should keep in mind.  If he meets a girl overseas briefly, and likes her, and wants to spend more time with her to decide where their relationship leads to, he may invite her to come visit him.  And if he proposes to her in the process of that return visit, that in no way constitutes fraud, but it frees the guy from the pressure to marry or propose to someone he barely knows, and to spend a ton of money and time to bring her over.

[Ray]

Now you're backpedaling ruso. That's not the way you put it the first time.

What you first proposed was F R A U D.

[soltero]

I don't see how any of this matters. If the woman is proposed to while on a tourist visa, doesn't she have to go back home anyway and then start the process it would take to bring her back? Do tourists get married and then stay here?

[el_ruso]

Sol,

it depends on how long she came.  typically she will be allowed to stay and her petition will be processed, but she will not be able to leave and come back until her travel parole or whatever it's called is ready.  Also my understanding is that if the sum of the time she was here as a tourist and the time it takes for her petition to get processed will exceed the time she was allowed to stay on the tourist visa, she might be forced to leave until her petition is approved.  But if this doesn't happen of course she will be allowed to stay.

[william3rd]

Soltero- under the facts you gave, the new spouse of a US citizen would be able to remain in the United States until her adjustment process is complete.

[soltero]

Soltero- under the facts you gave, the new spouse of a US citizen would be able to remain in the United States until her adjustment process is complete.

Thanks for that answer, W3! (and also El Ruso)

I was under the impression that they would have to exit the country and go through the entire process regardless...

[william3rd]

If she came as a tourist or a student or in a few other categories and was inspected, she could adjust status based on her marriage to a US citizen without going out of the United States.

[Ray]

I don't see how any of this matters. If the woman is proposed to while on a tourist visa, doesn't she have to go back home anyway and then start the process it would take to bring her back? Do tourists get married and then stay here?

Sol, it happens all the time. If a woman on a visitor visa, legitimately here to visit or on vacation, happens to meet, fall in love with, and marry a U.S. citizen, then she can adjust status and there is really nothing wrong with that legally.

However, ruso was promoting using a tourist visa as a means to beat the system and save all that time and expense that you and the rest of us went through.

The big side effect of not returning from a visit on a tourist visa is that a high number of cases like this from a particular country will result in a reputation as a high fraud post and it then becomes extremely difficult for other citizens of that country to get legitimate tourist visas.

Why do you think visitor visas are so hard to come by in Colombia and the Philippines for example while they are easy in so many other countries?

BTW, if a woman on a tourist visa got married here and then returned home to await the normal spousal K-3/CR-1 visa processing, nobody will have a problem with that.

Ray

[soltero]

BTW, if a woman on a tourist visa got married here and then returned home to await the normal spousal K-3/CR-1 visa processing, nobody will have a problem with that.

Ray

That brings up an interesting hypothetical. Since she has the tourist visa, if she goes home to await the normal spousal K-3/CR-1 visa processing, could she still come back and visit while waiting for approval using her tourist visa? I am not trying to find any ways to beat the system. I am just wondering if that would be legal and not an issue.

[william3rd]

Highly unlikely that the DHS will let her enter as a non immigrant tourist while she waits for a K visa overseas. Especially since she married as a tourist her last trip up.

[el_ruso]

I agree.  From what I know, her tourist visa will be canceled as soon as she applies for adjustment of status.

[Ray]

That brings up an interesting hypothetical. Since she has the tourist visa, if she goes home to await the normal spousal K-3/CR-1 visa processing, could she still come back and visit while waiting for approval using her tourist visa? I am not trying to find any ways to beat the system. I am just wondering if that would be legal and not an issue.

Good question Sol.

Assuming that she has a multiple-entry visa, she could certainly try to visit and she would technically be doing nothing illegal unless she lied to an immigration officer.

She shouldn’t have any trouble boarding the plane but she may very well have problems upon arrival in the States. I guess it would depend mostly on the ICE agent who clears her through immigration at her P.O.E.

If he asks the purpose of her visit and she says something like “I’m visiting my husband while we are waiting for my immigrant visa to be approved”, then she may very well be denied entry and sent home on the next plane. If she gets a nice immigration inspector or isn’t questioned too hard, she may get through O.K.

It would be a gamble of sorts and the cost to place a bet would be the price of a round-trip plane ticket.

[David]

Every now and then, some grad student writing a thesis or reporter may venture here with a million questions to make the "lab rats" run through mazes. They usually already have determined what kind of people head across borders looking for partners, and something like what you said eventually starts creeping up as they already have a negative opinion of us and are fishing for verification of that opinion.

I'm sorry you've had that experience here. Please don't judge me based on those who have hurt you in the past. Get to know me now, judge me later.

I think Jeff's remark was fairly justified based on Ruso's post. To many of us who are on the west coast and more conservative (at least), suggesting picking up girls at clubs and looking for the most attractive woman you can get, is kind of humorous. It's about the last way I would suggest looking fo a potential wife. I think the perceptions of clubs is different in other places, but the opinion of them where I grew up was about as low as it gets. I've yet to meet a high quality girl who'd give out her real name and number to a guy she met at a club. I think this is a little more acceptable in SA, but don't know for sure.

Jeff is a pretty high class guy and I think you can safely assume that he was not suggesting to pick up the hottest girl you can find at a bar.

Unfortunately I don't know Jeff, or anyone here really. There is not body language, or tone of voice. All I can go by is words.

I agree that meeting a woman in the USA at a club/bar is the worse way. If its different in SA and more expected that would be very interesting.

Ruso, good thoughts and advice  . Thanks for taking the time and energy to write that. As for the Corolla vs. Ferrari, I am in your camp on this one. Why go through all the trouble, if you're going to import a Corolla? But I think Corolla is a great buy too! So what we're really looking for is the reliability of a Corolla, with the looks of the Ferrari  Taaa-daaa!

Btw, my ex-fiancee, a FSUW, got her K-1 visa approved in 4.5 months! I think it was because I had it all under lock and barrel. I did everything right, had it well organized, and clearly labeled. I also did NOT use some immigration attorney. Now this time, the next time, I just need to be more careful with the woman I choose  .

[soltero]

I'm sorry you've had that experience here. Please don't judge me based on those who have hurt you in the past. Get to know me now, judge me later.

No judgement here, David...that's not my style! I figure asking a question when answering questions isn't in bad form. Just curious after that remark is all, but you clarified it for me, so thanks!