What do you consider sincere signs of interest (early letter writing stage)?

[garythfla]

I know you have to actually meet the girl to be sure but I have some women writing to me and some write long letter, some write short letters (but more frequent),etc.

just fishin' for some feedback

[EbonyPrince]

I would consider the longer letters more sincere.  It gives an indication that they can actually carry on a conversation, and they appear to want to know more about you.  From experience, a woman that doesn't have much to say in letters don't have much to say in person.

IMO I wouldn't consider short and frequent as more sincere, because she could be already in the internet cafe a lot writing to others.  She could also have internet access at work or in school.  I would look for quality over quanitity. 

Just my $ .02.

[sean126]

Longer letters are nice...depending on what they right or ask.  You can see what kind of women the ladies writing the short ones are by asking them open ended questions and see how much detail they get into. 

For example....you can ask them what, in detail, do they think the wife's role in the marriage is and what do they consider the man's role in a marriage.

You can also ask them about what their opinions are about decision making in the marriage...for example:  How do you decide who makes the final decision in a marriage if both people are right and no one is wrong?  I used those two alot. 

You can also ask them other questions about their family, jobs, ect...  I would think that the more info and detail they give, the more seriously they are taking your letter writing.  It never hurts to be blunt and just tell them...hey, I don't understand why your not going into more detail or giving more thought to your responses.

I've had and I've seen where women just act like they don't even see your questions...or they may answer one out of 4 or 5 questions very lightly.  Those...I'd give one more shot to and remind them that you asked more than one question.  If they did it again....scratch them off your list. In my opinion.

[utopiacowboy]

I met my wife through writing emails and engaged in quite a bit of correspondence with many other women. You can tell if a chick is interested if she responds promptly to your emails and answers your questions while posing questions of her own. It shows that she is really thinking about a possible relationship and putting some energy into it. There are many who write a short little canned response that could be from anyone to anyone. Those are the ones I ditched. The ones which got my interest were the ones which displayed her personality and whether there was some chemistry between us on that level. Of course to really see if there is chemistry, you've got to meet them in person - there's just no way around that. Nevertheless letter writing weeds out a lot and narrows the field to the ones with whom there exist real possibilities.

[fathertime]

I've had and I've seen where women just act like they don't even see your questions...or they may answer one out of 4 or 5 questions very lightly.  Those...I'd give one more shot to and remind them that you asked more than one question.  If they did it again....scratch them off your list. In my opinion.

In my opinion, that is a telltale sign of not much interest.

Fathertime!

[pan de bono]

Nude Photo! or at least a simi nude photo.

[jediknight]

this is difficult to tell as every girl will approach letter writing differently. for one thing, letter writing is time consuming. imagine writing something personal and different to every person that wrote to you, it takes a lot of time. there are girls who don't have internet access at home. others may have it at work but are prohibited from personal use. even though internet sites are cheap, some may not spend the money every day to check and write letters with someone they've just met.
keep in mind that many of these girls get lots of emails and they are not going to spend the same time responding to all of them. you have to make yourself stand out and and keep their interest. give them a reason to write to you because they have choices just like we do and can easily say "next".

in the beginning, relax, don't put too much weight on length of letters, frequency. if anything i would concentrate on the quality of her responses, the things she writes.

 i remember my wife would write how the first thing she did when she got home from work was to see if i had written to her. she wouldn't wait for me to write back, she would just send a message telling me how her day was and ask me what i was up to. she would sometimes send me one of those e-cards with a short message, just thinking of you. after a few weeks you'll know if someone really interested, then i would move onto phone conversations, you'll be able to find out much more than any email.
JK

[JamesDonut]

Nude Photo! or at least a simi nude photo.

I'm guessing you posted this somewhat in jest.  But just in case here is my take on the situation. If you have never met this person, this would send up a caution flag in my book.  Let's list some of the possible reasons a girl you never met maybe sending the photo:

1.  She sincerely likes you - Difficult to believe since you haven't met in real person.  Chemistry is a big Question mark.
2.  She is a slut -  Who knows how many other guys she has sent her nude photo to.
3.  Needs help out of a bad situation -  Maybe she needs money and fast.  Nude photo may mean hook, line and sinker. In other words this person has major baggage.
4.  Low Self-Esteem - She thinks the only way she will get a guy is by her body, not her personality.
5.  She is just horny atm and wants to get laid -  So there are no males where she lives?

I would proceed with caution in this situation. 

[sean126]

Darn!!!!   That explains it then.   Everytime I sent a semi nude photo to a girl, I never got a response back.  I guess they seen through my facade. LOL.

[Fuzzyone]

Gary

   Letter writing is ok, I did the internet thing myself. I mostly wrote e-mails and phone calls after that. I must warn you that you should make plans to visit who ever you are writing as soon as you can. The girl will be writing more than one man and who ever visits her first might be the winner. It is all a manner of timing. My wife had alot of men writing her but none came to visit her but three men all of which were as cloe to being losers as you could guess! Some of the men promised to visit but kept havng a excuse why they could not come, job, parents sick, but I think it had to do more with money than anything else.

I know you have to actually meet the girl to be sure but I have some women writing to me and some write long letter, some write short letters (but more frequent),etc.

just fishin' for some feedback

[Parlay Rey]

I met my wife through writing emails and engaged in quite a bit of correspondence with many other women. You can tell if a chick is interested if she responds promptly to your emails and answers your questions while posing questions of her own. It shows that she is really thinking about a possible relationship and putting some energy into it. There are many who write a short little canned response that could be from anyone to anyone. Those are the ones I ditched. The ones which got my interest were the ones which displayed her personality and whether there was some chemistry between us on that level. Of course to really see if there is chemistry, you've got to meet them in person - there's just no way around that. Nevertheless letter writing weeds out a lot and narrows the field to the ones with whom there exist real possibilities.

**great post. very insightful. inquisitiveness on her side is a good sign and chemistry is of paramount importance.

[RJS]

Gary

   Letter writing is ok, I did the internet thing myself. I mostly wrote e-mails and phone calls after that. I must warn you that you should make plans to visit who ever you are writing as soon as you can. The girl will be writing more than one man and who ever visits her first might be the winner. It is all a manner of timing. My wife had alot of men writing her but none came to visit her but three men all of which were as cloe to being losers as you could guess! Some of the men promised to visit but kept havng a excuse why they could not come, job, parents sick, but I think it had to do more with money than anything else.

That's interesting, do you guys think a lot of westerners that sign-up on the latin dating sites never actually go down there? Why do they bother joining?

I'm writing to several women right now (talk about time-consuming), but one in particular seems to have a spectacular personality, the looks to go with it, and is just the right age. I'd go down next month if my language skills were up to par, but they arne't there yet and I don't want to go down and blow-it because there's no chemistry due to language barriers. Plus, if I go in december I can spend a whole month there whereas if I went now I'd be limited to a couple weeks, which in the end would amount to the same amount of time b/c I could go back for another 2 weeks in december, but my language skills just aren't good enough for fluid conversation. In 5 months, they will be. I'm taking intensive spanish classes starting in the fall and I'm learning with Pimsleur right now. Writing is easier because I can look-up words and I have very good translation software to help me. I can also understand most things they write without any references whatsoever just based on my knowledge of english, french and context cues. For listening I'm re-watching as many movies as I can in spanish with english subtitles.

Anyway.... 

[utopiacowboy]

I would say 98%, maybe more, of the letter writers never get on a plane. Why do they write? They've got time on their hands, they're sort of interested, they're already married and  checking it out, they like writing letters but nothing more. It's the rare guy who will actually do what he promises and go down there. That fact alone will score you major points with any woman and separate you from the 100 other guys.

[RJS]

I would say 98%, maybe more, of the letter writers never get on a plane. Why do they write? They've got time on their hands, they're sort of interested, they're already married and  checking it out, they like writing letters but nothing more. It's the rare guy who will actually do what he promises and go down there. That fact alone will score you major points with any woman and separate you from the 100 other guys.

Good to know. I plan on booking my flight the instant I know my fall exam schedule.

[utopiacowboy]

To give you some idea of what I am talking about, the whole time I was writing my wife and courting her and then preparing to get married and later working on the visa, she had many naysayers constantly telling her that I wasn't going to follow through on whatever stage we were on. I wouldn't come to visit, then I wouldn't follow through on getting married, I wouldn't follow through on the visa etc etc Most of the naysayers are actually right and the odds of a guy writing a woman and then actually following through all the way are fairly small. My wife is a well-known "success" story now, among her former coworkers and friends and relatives, she's the one who beat the odds. 

[garythfla]

Lots of great replies here and I appreciate the feedback. I have actually "gotten on the plane" quite a bit,lol. This will be my second trip to Nelson's agency (latin introductions) and my fifth trip to Bogota overall. the other times were to visit a girl i met on my first trip to nelsons agency. i am going back to nelsons agency at the end of july. i was originally planning on using jamies agency at the end of this year but for reasons i wont go into now(i'll explain in my trip report when i get back), i decided to go down to nelsons.

 i actually wasnt planning on writing before i left but this lady wrote to me and i couldnt resist (for a variety of reasons...common interests, she is smokin' hot,etc,lol). she writes me 2 or 3 times a week and the letters are usually a couple of pages long. i have been very careful to let her know that while the letter writing is good and all that, we shouldnt get too carried away before we meet,etc.

i will post a detailed trip report when i get back....probably be the first part of august some time before i can get it all together, typed, and posted here on the site.
gary

p.s. another note on "getting on the plane"....i have been to ukraine twice and i cant believe how different colombian women are...much more loving, polite, and happy...even if they arent really interested in you...they are still nice to you (with one notable exception,lol).

[Parlay Rey]

To give you some idea of what I am talking about, the whole time I was writing my wife and courting her and then preparing to get married and later working on the visa, she had many naysayers constantly telling her that I wasn't going to follow through on whatever stage we were on. I wouldn't come to visit, then I wouldn't follow through on getting married, I wouldn't follow through on the visa etc etc Most of the naysayers are actually right and the odds of a guy writing a woman and then actually following through all the way are fairly small. My wife is a well-known "success" story now, among her former coworkers and friends and relatives, she's the one who beat the odds. 

**i'm not a backslapper nor do i jock anyone but pay close attention:

this one is opening up the books.

 heard the same stories from people who actually attended our wedding. LOL

take notes.

good post utopiacowboy

[doombug]

Forego the agencies, and forego the dating websites, I say.

Each is tailored not to success stories, but to profit. And we, the clients-to-be, are naturally inclined to put our best foot forward when interacting through their services--a form of deception with potentially expensive consequences.

Instead, the spontaneity of a trip with no preconceived itinerary would probably yield better, more surprising, results. Pick a date, book a flight, and board the plane. Not such a difficult formula.

Here's an example of how over planning matchmaking in the pre-encounter stage can literally waste thousands upon thousands of dollars, and hundreds upon hundreds of people's time. It was something I caught just this evening on 20/20:

Is Love Really Blind?

And in the end? "Two weeks after their would-be wedding day, Bell [the groom-to-be] told O'Connor [the bride-to-be] he just wanted to be friends."

In other words, the instant they set eyes on each other, the mutual attraction garnered through dialogue and screening over a three-week period had evaporated. No one could admit the obvious: that each found the other to be less than ideal in the looks department. He envisioned a smokin' hottie; she, a rich stud. Had they reversed the process, had they met one another in person prior to all the theatrics and screening tools, much expense and wasted time could have been prevented.

And don't rush to blame this failing on divorce-prone Americans, either:

"Since 1998, this contest has been held 21 times around the globe. The unusual concept is packaged for radio stations by a company called Absolute & Dowse.

"So far, every single couple got married and went off on a honeymoon paid for by sponsors (all of the competitions have included some heavy duty incentives courtesy of sponsors), but 16 of the 20 couples have since split up."

Skip the intermediaries and just take a trip on a whim. Give incidental encounters and unintended romances the chance robbed of them by the international matchmaking profiteer.   

[RJS]

Doom raises some serious concerns, but I don't think the situations are all that comparable. Those are completely blind arrangements and the initial selections are probably skewed towards losers, I hate to say. A woman's soccer coach was the big winner? I'm sorry, it's not all about money, but a woman's soccer coach doesn't strike me as the alpha-male type. That guy's life has basically peaked and he's not very high according to any scale. Anyone with a real career would never subject themselves to such a media freak-show.

In terms of looks, that guy was way out of his league. It happens that you'll see women with much less attractive men, but the men ALWAYS have something that makes-up for their looks, usually money, charm, power, or a combination of all three. Charm can bridge smaller gaps in appearance, but it alone won't be enough if there's a huge gap unless you have something else.

True love may be blind, but without initial attraction, true love never gets a chance to develop. These people didn't know what each other looked like until their wedding day and they didn't get any time alone. How honest are you really going to be when you know you're being listened-to by thousands of people, many of whom you know? They never had a chance. For this sort of experiment to have ANY credibility, you would have to provide them with a means to communicate openly at their own pace.

I think the things to take away from Doom's post are:

1) Don't lie about anything, especially concerning financial matters. It's a recipe for disaster. When I find a girl I want to marry I plan to propose first and if she accepts I'm going to lay everything out for her so that she knows what she can expect from me. I'll show her pictures of where I live, discuss money, etc. Especially for someone like me, I could imagine that it would be very easy for them to build-up a vision of a rich, charismatic and relatively handsome young guy. I'm three of those but not rich. I'm going to be honest about my current financial situation and future prospects, which are nonetheless very good, but will require a leap of faith. At this point she'll have her chance to bail.

2) Dating sites or agencies are just tools, not a purchased result. You have to do your own due diligence because they won't do it for you.

3) Deal with the hot-button issues sooner rather than later. It'll save everyone time. If you're using your limited vacation time to find a bride 3000kms away, you don't want to waste time on women it could never work with. Writing can be very beneficial in this regard.

4) Adjust the frequency of emails depending on when you're planning your trip. I'm not going for 6 months. After an initial discovery phase I would say write only when you have something interesting to say. Don't write to fill time or just for the sake of sending something. If you let it die-down before you go, she'll have a nice surprise when you email her saying you've made your final plans.

5) if they only have one relatively low-quality pic posted on the website, ask for more. Girls can look very different from one picture to another. Send her multiple pics of yourself. Ya, it sucks to be rejected at the writing stage, but it saves you both time and money.

6) ask the right questions

7) don't waste time with chicks that aren't genuinely interested

I think that used properly, dating sites can give you some very good leads. Of course, I'll be testing my own theories.

[doombug]

In terms of looks, that guy was way out of his league.

I had a feeling this might come up, since the couple's image at the 20/20 link shows her to be relatively attractive compared to him.

But as I watched the episode on television, I noticed that she, too, came off as quite average looking--sans the makeup and formal dress. In fact, she had no figure to speak of. (Chunky arms, no chest, boxy frame, etc.)

The point of my post was that there is an overemphasis on the "it's what's inside that counts" mantra. 20/20's experiment inadvertently proved this, as the couple immediately called the wedding off within minutes of seeing each other en vivo. I doubt online profile sharing would have lead to this hasty a retreat between the two, as likely each would have been quite selective in which photos to put forward. In other words, online matchmaking just delays the inevitable--yet people continue to pay, and continue to fool themselves. 

One can't fully and accurately gauge chemistry through website profiles or online chats. This requires--literally--standing in front of someone to see if the sparks fly. Meeting in person--the imperfections immeditately stand out. We can judge what, if any, flaws are tolerable--or run for the exit. This is where the rubber meets the road; and where lots of time and money can be saved for more worthwhile efforts.

"[T]he essential choreography of human courtship, love, and marriage has myriad designs that seem etched into the human psyche, the product of time, selection, and evolution. They begin the moment men and women get within courting range—with the way we flirt."
http://psychologytoday.com/rss/pto-19930301-000030.html

And the eyes--the one and most important thing we rely on to determine, A) if she's genuinely interested in you, or B) if she aspires to someone, or something, other than you:

"The gaze is probably the most striking human courting ploy. Eye language. In Western cultures, where eye contact between the sexes is permitted, men and women often stare intently at potential mates for about two to three seconds during which their pupils may dilate—a sign of extreme interest. Then the starer drops his or her eyelids and looks away.

"No wonder the custom of the veil has been adopted in so many cultures. Eye contact seems to have an immediate effect. The gaze triggers a primitive part of the human brain, calling forth one of two basic emotions—approach or retreat. You cannot ignore the eyes of another fixed on you; you must respond. You may smile and start conversation. You may look away and edge toward the door. But first you will probably tug at an earlobe, adjust your sweater, yawn, fidget with your eyeglasses, or perform some other meaningless movement—a "displacement gesture"—to alleviate anxiety while you make up your mind how to acknowledge this invitation, whether to flee the premises or stay and play the courting game."

Personally, proper eye language "translation" saves me much hassle and embarrassment when among women. At this point in my life, I'm pretty atuned to which women to avoid, and such disinterest no longer stings as much as it might have in my youth.

On another topic related to eyes, there are photos of wives/novias here and on other sites of whom their eyes suggest a positive, nurturing, trusting disposition. (There are photos, of course, that suggest the opposite, but I don't want to start a riot here.) Were I to take a poll, I'm comfortably certain that many here would agree as to who falls into the positive camp. And for those who'd err and vote against this tide...well, the devious eyes await you wherever you go.

[RJS]

All valid points. For the concerns about appearance, I think multiple photos do an adequate job of thinning the field and getting an accurate guage of what they look like, as long as they're of different views and not just headshots taken on a different day.

Different men will require different approaches. It's easy for me to meet chicks without any planning because I can drop-in to any salsa club and ask a girl that's only a few years younger than me to dance. It may not be as easy for guys that are much older, don't know the language well, and don't know how to dance. From these forums I've read about guys that go on the tours with 500 girls in a room and can't even get a date lol. Ignoring that extreme, guys that aren't completely comfortable with the language may be more at ease with a girl they already "know." I can see why they'd want the knowledge that they have something definite setup for their vacation. It may or may not end-up a waste of time, but we've got some success stories here so it's not completely worthless.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that true love can form through the internet. Until you meet, you have nothing. The dating sites should be used in the same way some sales organizations use purchased leads. That's all they are. And it's not as if the cost is exorbitant. I paid 50 bucks for 3 months. The girls I'm talking to may turn-out to be dead-ends, but I won't be any worse-off.

There are pros and cons to both approaches.

pros: you have something setup, you know a bit about them, you've probably culled the gold-diggers or the ones that don't seem genuinely interested

cons: you don't really know if there will be chemistry, you might waste time that you could be using to meet other girls

The pros and cons balance-out imo. You could just as easily meet a girl at salsa (where it's loud and you can't talk so easily), have great intial chemistry, and then waste a couple days finding out a deal-breaker that you could have discovered via e-mail exchange. In that case, each individual should examine his options and use the approach that's most suited to his personality.

EDIT: Btw, are you married? If so, how many trips did it take? I'm assuming you had no help from agencies or dating sites?

[doombug]

I met someone on a trip to Lima back in '03 while there on vacation. No agency or matchmaking site involvement. Months prior to the trip, however, I had been a member of Cherry Blossoms, and was communicating with a really adventurous Peruvian woman there. Her glowing promotion of the country ultimately inspired me to make my first trip to South America. (Not to see her, though. Nice a girl as she was.)

But on to Ms. Lima. Met her on the first trip; engaged on the second; married on the third. Red flags (psychological problems surfaced; and so did her drinking habit) compelled me to dissolve the marriage prior to her coming to the States. In retrospect, her eyes, had I been more conscious of the tales they tell, were warning signs in themselves.

She didn't work out, but Peru did. That's what I got out of the experience. Aside from the pollution and the tainted water and this troubled girl, I found a place that I can dream about retiring to some day.

[RJS]

I know some people that wanted to retire there but couldn't because of the altitude. Everyone I know that's been there has loved it. I'm sure I'll expat as soon as I can afford it. ;p

[atomik]

I know this thread started with a discussion about letter writing, but I would like to add a few tips my brother gave me a long time ago.  First, look for signs that she is thinking about your well being.  One indication is when you let her into a locked car.  Does she lean over and unlock your door for you?  (from some movie he saw)  The second tip is to see if she back hands you when she puts her arm around your waist.  Is she holding on or letting go?

Body language is everything.  Understanding it is almost as important as speaking spanish.

[RJS]

I know this thread started with a discussion about letter writing, but I would like to add a few tips my brother gave me a long time ago.  First, look for signs that she is thinking about your well being.  One indication is when you let her into a locked car.  Does she lean over and unlock your door for you?  (from some movie he saw)  The second tip is to see if she back hands you when she puts her arm around your waist.  Is she holding on or letting go?

Body language is everything.  Understanding it is almost as important as speaking spanish.

A Bronx Tale. ;p