EP's June 2007 Cartagena Trip - Post 2

[EbonyPrince]

Tuesday

Yobany and Luis came over about 11am.  Sunday I informed Luis that I need a cell phone, because I have some friends that I wanted to keep in contact with.  I recall Mark telling me it would be about $50.  Luis told me to give him $120,000 pesos and he would get me one with a lot of minutes.  He brought the phone, and gave me brief instruction on how to use it. 

I gave Yobany the list of 22 people that I had originally emailed to Luis prior to coming to Colombia.  I informed him Tuesday that I wanted to meet a few of them today, since Yerley wasn’t coming down till Wednesday.  They told me that Yerley was a very nice girl, so it wasn’t necessary to meet anymore girls when you find the right one.  I told him that there was one girl in particular that I was interested in meeting named Nerlys.  Originally they told me  on Sunday that she was very nice and smart girl.  He mentioned that she was cautious of American men and their games.  When I pressed the issue about meeting her, Yobany told me that she wasn’t the girl for me.  He mentioned she was all about the money.  I also wanted to meet Osmiy, but he told me that a friend of his had already locked her down about a month ago.

We went to El Centro to have some lunch.  Luis and Yobany seemed to know everyone.  They also were also shooting game at just about every girl that we saw.  Now Jamie uses women as translator/assistants, which in my opinion is preferred.  You know that they are always working for your benefit.  Although Yerley was very comfortable with Yobany, I feel that it somewhat presents competition.  This presents two problems in my opinion, one the Spanish gives them the upper-hand.  Secondly they present competition from the standpoint that they are also trying to game on every women that they see that is attractive.  I feel that they should be introducing women to you (the client)  with the goal of helping you find the right one.  Also watching them in action, there is no way that I could trust them remaining in constant contact with my girl while I was back in the states.

While having lunch, I was introduced to Yobany and Luis’ brother Ismail.  I was impressed when he brought a street guy a full plate of lunch.  I always saw this guy sitting around El Centro (day and night) with a guitar.  Yobany explained to me that the guy is basically slow.  The guitar was purchased by one of his previous clients.

After lunch we headed back to the apartment.  Luis wanted to watch Training Day, so we chilled till it was time to pick up a friend at the airport.  While watching the movie, Mark called to see how things were going.  My friend was arriving at 3:46pm from Miami, so we headed to the airport to pick him up.  We went back to his apartment to drop off his luggage.  We then headed for the grocery store to get some items.  I went home to shower, and we headed out for a night in Cartagena. 

Wednesday (drama day)

My friend (Atomik)  and I decided to rent a private boat to take us to the islands prior to arriving on our trip to Colombia.  On Tuesday, Luis had gotten all the information from Mike regarding getting the boat.  Luis insisted on going down to the dock to have the boat prepared for us.  Another friend of mine in BAQ to pick up his novia was supposed to join us, but he called me Tuesday night to cancel. 

We were told to be at the departing dock by 10:00a, because all commercial boats had to be gone by 10:30am.  Juan, the guy I rented the apartment from, instructed me to leave $20,000 pesos on the counter for the maid to clean while we were gone which I did.  While we waited for Yerley, Luis suggested calling the boat captain to have him pick us up on the beach.  He also suggested I give him $50,000 pesos to get some beer, juice, water, and ice for our trip.  About the time that he returned, Yerley arrived about 9:30am.  We then all headed down to the beach to board the boat.

When the boat arrived Atomik immediately began complaining about the boat not being the boat that he had ordered.  I suggested that we not go until we can straighten things out with Mike.  Atomik didn’t want to inconvenience anyone, so we decided to go.  I enjoyed the trip out to the islands, but I was disappointed that we had to return early.  Around 3pm that afternoon, while we were all chilling in hammocks underneath a hut on Isla del Encantu(or something like that), Atomik mentions that we will have to leave.  He informed me that he just was told, by this extra girl that Luis brought along, that she had to get back to take a test by 4:30pm.  I asked him if she told him this earlier, and he mentioned that she had just told him.  I asked Luis about it, and he tried to blame it on Atomik.  I told him that we both just found out.

While heading back, we traveled back through the river.  We got stuck once in the mud, and all the men had to get out and push.  Of course I refused to push this damn boat because I paid good money for this trip .   Once we arrived more drama broke out.  I was originally told that price of the boat was going to be $400,000 pesos, which was due to the size of the boat.  I had originally paid $100,000 on the island, because supposedly these operators wanted food to eat.  After paying this guy the balance and walking away, this guy yells that we owed another $100,000.  By this time Atomik was really pissed, and I was disappointed.  Rather than argue, we just paid the money.  Atomik said that he would take it up with Mike later.  I finally got things calmed down, and I was ensuring him that Luis and Yobany were good guys. 

Later that evening me, Atomik, another lady from ADE, and Yerley went out to Café del Mar for dinner, drinks, and dancing.  Tom explained to me that he had a visit from Mike.  Apparently Mike was upset.  He said that his boat guy was waiting for us till about Noon.  Tom informed him that we thought that we met his boat operator.  Atomik also informed me that this girl had told him that Luis had promised her that Atomik would pay her $15000 for taking her test along with money for the cab.  This is when I really got pissed, because I realized that Luis had point-blank lied to me.  I also found out that Atomik had tipped him $100,000, and he told him that he no longer needed or wanted his help.  I called Yobany and instructed him that he was now to arrive alone.  I also received a call that night from Juan.  He said the maid had cleaned, but I forgot to leave the $20000.  I informed him that I left it on the counter.  He said that he trusted his maid and he also trusted me.  He said that he would pay her the $20000 and not to worry about it.  I felt bad, but I know I left it on the counter.  He said if I found it anywhere, I could pay it later.

After looking for the money, I decided to think over my steps that day.  I know that the girls that Luis had brought for Atomik didn’t take it, because the money was there when they went to wait for the boat.  Yerley had also went down along with Yobany.  I then remembered that Luis did something strange prior to us joining everyone else.  He went back into the kitchen to get the ice cooler with the drinks after I had left the apartment.  I remember thinking that he was acting kinda strange, so I took a step back in the door and glanced on the counter.  I thought that I saw the money there, but I had a bunch of other stuff on the counter.  So I thought that I still saw the money there.  I guess I should have checked more thoroughly, but I didn’t think anything about it.

The night at Cafe del Mar was so romantic and peaceful, which was a nice way to cap off a drama-filled day.  Without the drama and the early return, the trip to the islands was amazing.  I highly recommend this trip.  There is a commercial boat that I took back in April to Coco Liso, which gives you a meal and they have the nicest pool of all the islands.  I also heard from a vendor named Pepe that the Islands of Baru are nice with white sand beaches and clear water.  Baru are the islands that you can see from CTG.  I don't know anything about them, and I would appreciate if anyone can fill me in about them.  Pepe didn't push to sell anything to me, and he said that his mother had a store on Baru.  He said the water and beer was free and the food was cheaper than Rosario.

[william3rd]

excellent, well-thought out posting. Great detail.

[atomik]

EP is right on in his description of the boat fiasco so I will leave much of that out of my second installment.  The main reason I gave Luis a tip at the end of the day is 1) to get rid of him, and 2) at the time I was still pissed off at Mike thinking he has set us up with a tiny boat.  It was several hours later when I learned the truth. 

Good post EP

[fathertime]

Oh boy...oh boy...oh boy oh boy oh boy...oh boy!  Sorry I coundn't help myself. 

Ebony, you have always been positive, so I don't doubt a word you are saying.  To me it sounds like you only saw a fraction of the ladies you wanted to.  In addition to that it sounds to me like Luis was EXTREMLY dishonest, unhelpful, and a jerk.  I know it is not your way to be pissed but you have every right to be...I am a little pissed for you.  It seems like the clowns did everything they could to sabotage your time with the girls and everyone picked your pocket at every opportunity.  Those tips are outrageous, 100K to that Luis a s s hole, and 20k for one day cleaning to the maid, which Luis suggested and then probably pocketed anyway. 

Thanks for the real scoop. I have never heard of more flagrant offenses then the ones you went through.  Is there going to be a part 3 to your story? 
Is there going to be any rebuttle from MarkAnthony on this?

Fathertime!

[william3rd]

Sounds like Luis needs to be changing to another career in the city. There are openings for street vendors.

[EbonyPrince]

Fathertime,

The $20000 was for cleaning, which had nothing to do with Luis.  Juan, the apartment manager, informed me prior to my coming to Colombia that a cleaning lady is available for $20000 per day.  He can also have a cook come in which is a little more I believe.  I had no problem with the cleaning lady and the money.  She actually did a great job in cleaning.

Since I wanted her to come back on Friday and after hearing Atomik's information regarding everything, I had a suspicion that Luis had taken the money.  I totally believe everyone is innocent until proven guilty, thus it is not my intention to falsely accuse anyone of anything.  I am only giving you information as it happened.  My objective is to give you information on about my trip, and everyone is free to draw their own conclusions.  As someone mentioned YMMV.  To be fair Mark had informed me prior to going down not to give money to them.

I originally thought that the maid was lying.  I met with Juan again on Friday.  There was a mix-up on my arrangements, and he thought I was leaving Saturday.  He was heading to BAQ on Thursday, so he wanted to make sure that Atomik and I didn't need anything.  He mentioned that he may not be back by the time that we left, and that we should leave the keys at the front desk.  Someone was due to have the apartment on Saturday, but he said that he would put the guy up in another place for a day.  I also wanted the maid to clean Friday.  Since I wasn't sure if anyone took the money, I offered to split the $20000 with him.  He also suggested that I leave the money at the front desk.  I later bumped into the maid on Friday when Yerley and I returned from the beach, and I am comfortable that she didn't take the money or lie about it.

Will,

Yes there is more to come.  I know that Yobany used to be a vendor, but I am not sure about Luis.  All the vendors definately know them.

It is not my intention to bash Luis, but I wouldn't recommend trusting him.  I would however recommend Yobany.  He was always straight with me, and I saw in him an attempt to take care of his people while taking care of me. 

I am an experimental and analytical person.  I like putting people in situations to see how they respond, which allows me to guage if they are someone that I can trust.  I don't feel that this trip is a waste, because it gave me more experience in life and on Colombia.  Thus far I have made a lot of good friends that I would do anything for, and I know that they would do anything for me.  I have learned that Jamie is an exceptional and professional person.  I have made a lifelong friend in Liliana who was my translator on my first two trips to Colombia.  Atomik and drm64 are exceptional people that I know and wholeheartedly trust (and I typically don't trust anyone). 

That is what life is all about "Learning lessons and gaining experience to use for another day"...  So I wasn't disappointed in the trip, because I always enjoy myself when in Colombia (thus far).  I really don't feel that Mark has a total grasp on what is going on down there, and I have communicated to him my feelings on Luis.  I don't dislike Luis, but I personally would never trust him again.

[soltero]

That is what life is all about "Learning lessons and gaining experience to use for another day"...  So I wasn't disappointed in the trip, because I always enjoy myself when in Colombia (thus far).  I really don't feel that Mark has a total grasp on what is going on down there, and I have communicated to him my feelings on Luis.  I don't dislike Luis, but I personally would never trust him again.

I can only go by your report and Atomik's, but it seems pretty obvious that you got switched on the boat and even more obvious that Luis is the one that masterminded your fleecing and pocketed the cash. There is NO WAY that trip you took could be anywhere near COP400,000! It sounds very much like he and his brother were basically having a good time off of the visiting Gringos and not doing much towards helping them to have one as well.

I found it incredulous that they had the nerve to tell you who would and wouldn't be right for you without giving you the chance to see that for yourself. Every time you told them you wanted to meet the woman anyway, they came up with another excuse. Also, it appears from your report and Atomik's that when you went on the boat trip, they brought the women just as much for themselves as for Atomik. If I didn't pick a woman to spend time with, I wouldn't want someone just bringing one to tag along, especially one that needs a chaperone, female or not. There is no way I would feel comfortable using a translator, and I definitely would not want a guy. There is no way unless he is gay that he will not try and follow up on any women he feels may be a good catch once you leave, or if you don't know any Spanish, right there in front of you. It is naive to think otherwise.

I don't see how you could still feel that Jovany is any more trustworthy than Luis when he had to know what was going on. There is no way he could be completely clueless as to what Luis was doing. I would have enjoyed being on this trip with you just to hear what they were actually saying that you could not understand. You were extremely lucky that they were only interested in fleecing you for whatever change they could get and not setting you up for something out of Hostel or Turista.

From your trip report and that of Atomik's, it sounds like these guys are having a blast pickpocketing Gringos and don't give a flying f*$% about whether you meet anyone or not.

[doombug]

I agree with Señor Soltero.

And that kleptomaniac needs to be canned--pronto!

All in all, these reports highlight the advantage of going it alone. By using the agencies, you are dishing out money hand over foot for the benefit of the self-interested tag-alongs. Unless I missed something, every one of the recent travelers came back empty handed. No prospects. Not even a kiss on the cheek was to be found in their reports.

But if they insist on returning to the scene of the crime, I'm offering the services of the Javier 6000. It's a travel companion that's fluent in Spanish, has a cash box in its back where you can secure your valuables, comes with a condom dispenser with a fifty-round magazine, and can detect pickpockets and bogus money changers within a 500 yard radius. And he's free of bugs.



(He weighs in at 680 pounds, so I wouldn't advise taking him along on any flimsy river skiffs.)

[EbonyPrince]

Soltero,

I have to admit that all your points are valid.  I wanted to give everything some thought prior to writing a post in order to be objective.  My boy Atomik was very uncomfortable with them around, and I felt extremely bad that the circumstances transpired as they did.  Losing a few dollars here and there didn't bother me.  I was really disappointed to find out that Luis bold-faced lied to me, which made me think what else has he lied to me about.  A few hours earlier I was glorifying and somewhat justifying him to my boy.  I was pissed when Atomik told me everything that happened once we returned.  I know wholeheartedly that Atomik wouldn't lie to me, because he has been extremely honest with me in the past.  My hurt feelings were due to my feelings that he wasn't having a good time and my feeling responsible.  Money is just that.

In fairness I still have no proof of Luis' fleecing, although the thought did cross my mind many times during my stay.  I still do not condemn the guy, but I wouldn't recommend him to anyone.  In the case of Yobany, there were many things that happened to where I really think that he was not involved.  So I am keeping an open-mind about him.  He does have some good qualities.  I also got the impression that he was uncomfortable with some of the things that Luis did, but Luis is his big brother.  So until I am told otherwise, I still regard Yobany as a friend.  Yobany did however supply me with a lot of information, which is why I have come to some of the conclusions that I have about ADE.

My original plan was to meet about several women from ADE prior to meeting Yerley from BAQ.  If things didn't go well with Yerley, I planned to continue meeting more people in CTG.  I fully communicated my intentions to Mark and Luis.  Mark instructed me to communicate my plans to Luis.  If things went well with Yerley, I fully intended to spend the week with her and hanging with Atomik. 

Doombug,

I feel that pursuing women in other countries by any means is an adventure with no guarantees.  I except this and I advise others to come to grips with the same realization.  Everyone that knows me know that I am extremely selective.  I seek someone that has the same qualities that I posess (and not what I could posess with the right person).  I seek more than beauty.  With that said, I do feel that it is better to speak the native language of any country that you perform your search.  I also strongly feel that improving my Spanish will give me better possibilities during this journey.  From what I have seen thus far, latinas are very receptive and easy to talk to when they are able to communicate with you directly. 

So fellas I stress learning Spanish...

[william3rd]

Thieves, liars, sex tourists, or pedophiles have no redeeming qualities. There is an ancient maxim at law that says- false in part, false in whole.

Luis is not OJ Simpson, Michael Jackson, or even a Catholic priest. There is no criminal standard of "beyond reasonable doubt." The standard is "preponderance of the evidence."

Put all of the facts together and what do you get? What is your actual opinion?

My opinion- looking at placing myself in your shoes and seeing what you saw- is that you have a dishonest guy fleecing his customers, milking the gringo wallet in every manner possible, and actually stealing from you.

You are too nice, guy. Wayyy too nice. . . . . .

[soltero]

Soltero,

I have to admit that all your points are valid.  I wanted to give everything some thought prior to writing a post in order to be objective.  My boy Atomik was very uncomfortable with them around, and I felt extremely bad that the circumstances transpired as they did.  Losing a few dollars here and there didn't bother me.  I was really disappointed to find out that Luis bold-faced lied to me, which made me think what else has he lied to me about.  A few hours earlier I was glorifying and somewhat justifying him to my boy.  I was pissed when Atomik told me everything that happened once we returned.  I know wholeheartedly that Atomik wouldn't lie to me, because he has been extremely honest with me in the past.  My hurt feelings were due to my feelings that he wasn't having a good time and my feeling responsible.  Money is just that.

In fairness I still have no proof of Luis' fleecing, although the thought did cross my mind many times during my stay.  I still do not condemn the guy, but I wouldn't recommend him to anyone.  In the case of Yobany, there were many things that happened to where I really think that he was not involved.  So I am keeping an open-mind about him.  He does have some good qualities.  I also got the impression that he was uncomfortable with some of the things that Luis did, but Luis is his big brother.  So until I am told otherwise, I still regard Yobany as a friend.  Yobany did however supply me with a lot of information, which is why I have come to some of the conclusions that I have about ADE.

My original plan was to meet about several women from ADE prior to meeting Yerley from BAQ.  If things didn't go well with Yerley, I planned to continue meeting more people in CTG.  I fully communicated my intentions to Mark and Luis.  Mark instructed me to communicate my plans to Luis.  If things went well with Yerley, I fully intended to spend the week with her and hanging with Atomik. 

EP,

Thank you and Atomik for your trip reports. You sound like a pretty laid back and easy going guy, but from what you posted, there isn't much room for the benefit of doubt for either one of them. As the customer, if you weren't treated above board by ALL agents, then the responsibility lies with them and the owner. When you are paying your hard earned cash, it does not matter if you consider it a pittance or not, nor whether or not it is considered paying for experience, at some point, you have to get pissed off about what you just reported here.

I am only glad that Luis is obviously a small time crook and did not think on a grander scale on how to enrich himself at your expense. Learning Spanish is an absolute MUST when traveling to a Spanish speaking country. If you don't you are depending on the kindness of strangers and if that goes bassackwards, you may be potentially gambling with your life. I know that sounds reactionary and harsh, but if you are dealing ith people that you can not trust, it is best not to expect any honest intentions on their part. Thanks again for the trip report to both you and Atomik. I regret that I did not respond to his report as well, but it would have just been a copy and paste of my response to yours.

[EbonyPrince]

Will,

You are correct in your analysis and suggestion.  IMO I felt that I was fleeced.  I struggled with it due to the fact that I had no smoking gun, but you are correct by "preponderance of the evidence" I would have to agree that Luis was guilty.  Rather than persecute him, I chose to forget about it and not be around him for the remainder of my stay.  My philosophy, and Atomik and I discussed it, is that you can't change the past.  We decided to enjoy the rest of our trip and to put it behind us.  My goal was to learn from it for the future.

Soltero,

These guys appeared to be well known and liked by everyone we came in contact with including a few police.  On one hand I looked at it as good contacts to have, but on the other I felt I didn't want to rock the boat (if you know what I mean) .  I am a very cautious individual who has known or dealt with many characters from all walks of life, so I really didn't sweat the situation.  I just wanted to make sure that Atomik was comfortable.  I typically adapt to any situation that I am in, but I know others aren't as easy-going as myself.  A friend of mine here calls me "The go along to get along guy".  I just don't like drama or to see my friends or anyone that I care about distressed or in distress.

As far as I am concerned it wasn't a big issue.  I really enjoyed myself, and I would do everything all over again but with some minor adjustments.  That is who I am.  The only hurt that I felt was the hurt of being lied to and inconveniencing my friend.  Other than that it gives me more stories to tell .

[atomik]

EP, But to me worse than getting taken advantage of by Luis and maybe even Jovanny, was the post Mark Anthony started last week about gringos having prejudiced against Colombians.  He used this boat switch example to indicate that I was not being fair to Luis and that I am prejudiced against Colombians based upon some made up prior bad experience.  He still has not acknowleged or responded to my concerns about that post.  I think I learned my lesson.

But as you know very well . . . I had a great time in Cartagena!!!

[utopiacowboy]

You're right, Atomik. I saw right through that prejudiced against Colombians thread as soon as I read it. He's trying to make it sound as though your problems with Luis are the product of a prejudice against Colombians instead of just seeing the guy as what he is, a dirtball. I have plenty of dealings with Colombians and a dirtball is a dirtball. I hope these guys' reputation spreads far and wide so everyone dealing with them can see them for what they are.

[chizz]

Hey ebony, enjoying the report so far, i have a question. I mentioned in my report about more of the women in baq being darker(not much) than the girls in cali, would you say the same for cartegena? If you've been to cali.
chizz

[Parlay Rey]

Wow. Sounds like you guys went on the E ticket ride.

shakin' my head.

Sorry, but I'll decline the invitation to this pity party. You guys have no one to blame but yourselves.

This isn't about "Luis" taking foreigners or Colombians vs. Gringos or whomever.

It's about being taken. Period.

I saw 2 huge red flags off the bat:

Fact: you don't speak enough of the language, and you don't know enough of the culture. Especially Colombian culture.

Hate me if you want, but I'm just telling you for your own good. And for posterity's sake for the benefit of others that may be heading south. Somebody's gotta do it.

But I won't tell you everything. That's something you should research on your own.

I will say this much so pay close attention:

this reports reeks of a certain tasty, succulent, tropical fruit.

[EbonyPrince]

PR,

First off I really didn't understand your post, but I definitely am not having a pity party at all. 

For one Atomik speaks very good Spanish.  He had no problem conversing with people that we came into contact with, including the maritime personnel that understood him very well.  Secondly I consider myself familiar enough with the Colombian culture and people.  If you didn't read my previous postings, I stated that people are the same all over.  Colombians are no different.  You have bad and good.  I am not accusing Luis of being bad, because I feel that he is actually a pretty cool guy.  As mentioned in my first post, I am giving you it as it is.  I am not making excuses for anyone, blaming anyone, protecting anyone, nor want anyone to feel sorry for me.  I can certainly afford the few dollars that it cost me, and I don't take it personally as others may.  I have my level of tolerance as far as the cash is concerned, and trust me it hasn't impacted me at all.  I am sure it hasn't impacted Atomik either.  Everyone that has written me privately can testify that I have not blasted anyone.  I give my opinion and my opinion only.  Coincedently I will more than likely be back in Colombia again at the end of the year.  I would be there sooner, but I will be heading to OBX with family in September.

Chizz,

I have met people from Cali in the states and have seen pics.  It is my opinion that Colombia is very similiar to the US.  The migration of Colombians have masked certain identifying characteristics from the past.  From what I have seen, Cartageneros are more in touch with there African roots and it is embedded in the culture.  That is probably why I feel more comfortable there.  The stares that I received were more from the Afrio-Colombians.  From chatting with some, I got the impression that they liked seeing an African-American.  Many told me that they liked the Americans.  The ladies giving me a message on the beach in this village outside of Cartagena was impressed with my skin and so forth.  She was speaking in Spanish, and I think Yerley was getting a little annoyed with the whole thing.  I personnally found a lot of the Afro-Colombianas pretty damn hot!  There were a lot of women with morena and triguena complexions.

[markanthony7]

First of all I would like to state that their is a lot of unfair criticism about Luis on two separate threads ,I am not sure if the best way two respond is by starting a new thread or just do a brief double post

1. Luis was neither Atomix tour guide and he was not Ebony Princes tour guide

2. Luis did not make any arrangements for that boat ride I do not permitt him to do these things because if something goes a rye then he gets blamed for it, on my website I have the "Mark Anthony Cartagena page" I send this to every customer because I have already evaluated the best value and service to say our clients or anybody for that matter time and expense, on it has Rosario Island tours, Chiva bus rides places to , disco techs, etc; actually the person thathat Atomik bought the boat ride from Mike Crawford is featured on our website.

3. Luis is not involved in the litany of this because Atomik related to me by phone that his apartment he was staying in was directly across from Mike Crawford, if it is Mikes business and he is renting a boat from Mike, then it is only logical that he would pay Mike right?, then where is Luis involved in this litany?, when customers but our tour packages they don't pay Luis , they pay me and I just think it is ironic that Atomik would give any money to Luis and he did not! Luis never handled his money out of courtesy and customer concern he escorted them to the boat dock and that was it, there was no money exchanging hands, Atomik paid Mike and administratively its Mikes responsibility to a range the particulars and details regarding the trip not Luis

4. Ebony Prince I talked to you by phone and I got the gist of your complaint about Luis, I did not detect anything in your complaint that he did that could characterized as wrong or unethical, it appeared to me that you guys personalities just did not click, it sound it like most of your apprehensions about Luis were more mental or intuitive like a gut feeling you had about him and when you dothis with people there is avast potential for human error and to critical and negatively misjudge someone, you never said anything he definitely did that was wrong, (example you said you were not sure but he might have taken 20, pesos, well until you are certain he did you should not put him out there l;like that and accuse him) how would you feel if someone said I was you talking to a gay guy, sop that means Ebony Prince is gay you get the point

4. I would appreciate it if the Luis bashing would stop be fair and objective to all people most of you do not even know or at least know enough about him to make these serious allegations and disparaging remarks

[daytrader]

I would appreciate it if the Luis bashing would stop

Mark,

From what I read, the recent feedback about Luis is ALL first hand information.  Most of your rebuttal is second hand information.  You weren't there on the beach, you weren't there on the boat, or sitting with the guys when Luis was introducing the guys to the ladies. 

My "opinion" remains that you are in over your head, each time you attempt to rebuttal a negative first hand trip report you continue to dig a bigger hole, IMO.  Others may have a different opinion, which they are perfectly entitled to. 

DayTrader

[fathertime]

Quote
I would appreciate it if the Luis bashing would stop

Mark,

From what I read, the recent feedback about Luis is ALL first hand information.  Most of your rebuttal is second hand information.  You weren't there on the beach, you weren't there on the boat, or sitting with the guys when Luis was introducing the guys to the ladies. 

My "opinion" remains that you are in over your head, each time you attempt to rebuttal a negative first hand trip report you continue to dig a bigger hole, IMO.  Others may have a different opinion, which they are perfectly entitled to. 

DayTrader

I don't get Mark's defense of Luis, after all the firsthand negative comments he is receiving.  I guess Luis is just more important than the people he is supposed to be helping.  I get the impression it would be most appropriate to cater to what Luis wants and needs.  That is far more important than anything we should require as mere travelers.  Now that I understand the dynamic better, I think another agency will work better for what I need.

Fathertime! 

[william3rd]

This thread has been sooo interesting thus far.

MA, you need to get down there and take care of business. Either exonerate your manager or FIRE him.

Better call the union steward in for consultation. Disciplinary action may well be pending. . . . .

[soltero]

First of all I would like to state that their is a lot of unfair criticism about Luis on two separate threads ,I am not sure if the best way two respond is by starting a new thread or just do a brief double post

1. Luis was neither Atomix tour guide and he was not Ebony Princes tour guide

2. Luis did not make any arrangements for that boat ride I do not permitt him to do these things because if something goes a rye then he gets blamed for it, on my website I have the "Mark Anthony Cartagena page" I send this to every customer because I have already evaluated the best value and service to say our clients or anybody for that matter time and expense, on it has Rosario Island tours, Chiva bus rides places to , disco techs, etc; actually the person thathat Atomik bought the boat ride from Mike Crawford is featured on our website.

3. Luis is not involved in the litany of this because Atomik related to me by phone that his apartment he was staying in was directly across from Mike Crawford, if it is Mikes business and he is renting a boat from Mike, then it is only logical that he would pay Mike right?, then where is Luis involved in this litany?, when customers but our tour packages they don't pay Luis , they pay me and I just think it is ironic that Atomik would give any money to Luis and he did not! Luis never handled his money out of courtesy and customer concern he escorted them to the boat dock and that was it, there was no money exchanging hands, Atomik paid Mike and administratively its Mikes responsibility to a range the particulars and details regarding the trip not Luis

4. Ebony Prince I talked to you by phone and I got the gist of your complaint about Luis, I did not detect anything in your complaint that he did that could characterized as wrong or unethical, it appeared to me that you guys personalities just did not click, it sound it like most of your apprehensions about Luis were more mental or intuitive like a gut feeling you had about him and when you dothis with people there is avast potential for human error and to critical and negatively misjudge someone, you never said anything he definitely did that was wrong, (example you said you were not sure but he might have taken 20, pesos, well until you are certain he did you should not put him out there l;like that and accuse him) how would you feel if someone said I was you talking to a gay guy, sop that means Ebony Prince is gay you get the point

4. I would appreciate it if the Luis bashing would stop be fair and objective to all people most of you do not even know or at least know enough about him to make these serious allegations and disparaging remarks

Mark, in all fairness, at each one of your points, a counterpoint can be made as to why Luis was always hanging around.  If he was no one's guide, then why was he always there? If Luis had no business reason to be around all the time, then he could have avoided many of these allegations by not being there in the first place. His name is coming up too much in too many negative situations for there to be absolutely no truth to it. I could understand one or two misunderstandings, but it appears that a few people have had misunderstandings involving Luis. Unless EP and Atomik are lying about their experience with him, which I find hard to believe, then the boat switch had to involve Luis if you follow their explanantion. How could there have been two "Capt. Lorenzos" and how would the guy know to pick them up near the Hotel? Luis took them to the guy, it's not like they knew to go there. Luis was the one per their explanation of the events who told them they had to pay a diferent amount than they had agreed upon with Mike, and offered to take the money. Unless they are lying, I don't understand how Luis' involvement is not clear.

[sean126]

Mark...

I think we realize everyone can have a bad day, a bad week or even a bad month.  It's only human.  No matter who you are or what you do and no matter how hard you try to do a good job...things happen.
 
I don't know if I'm reading everyone wrong here but...I think the main point and underlying issue is:  Instead of explaining "why" things have happened ( real or percieved), I think it's moved to... what are you specificially going to do about each negative point being made.  Everyone's explaination made sense, depending on how you looked at it.  Thats over now.  Now, I think they are looking to you to address each point with what you specifically plan to do about it.  What's done is done.  Can't change the past, but I believe they are interested in specific details about the future now.

For instance:
1.  Having problems contacting Luis.  One report claims Luis said he would show up at 12:30pm and didn't even call until 2pm the next day.  Unless he's dead, mom's dead, physically on fire, ect...you must agree, that shouldn't ever happen. Period.  Regardless if he panicked or not.  He's a grown man and panicking is definitely not an excuse.  Either the client will believe his story or he won't, but a definite phone call is in order.  I know things happen in life that can't be avoided, but the client should contact you as a last resort...and then someone needs to explain why they haven't been able to contact your head man.
There are other instances sited about trouble contacting Luis...and this in itself, is a huge problem.  If in fact, it is true.

2.  EP claims that he sent Luis 22 women's names and Luis only sent him 7 emails before his trip and EP claims he was told he'd get the other 15 when he arrived.  What's the purpose of this?  Trips aren't long and it's not uncommon to be unable to contact someone...let alone a Woman, and a Colombian woman at that.  Someone on a short trip doesn't have time to wait, after he's already there.    The ones he couldn't get a hold of should have been relayed back to EP a.s.a.p. so he can pick others before he arrived. Perhaps a rule needs to be established that plans must be made by the client at least a month in advance...in order to prevent any disappointments or percieved disappointments.  Then someone must make absolutely sure that he is on the ball about contacting these girls.  If they don't reply back with 3 or 4 days..then instruct the client they may or may not be available when he arrives.  Give him a chance to choose other girls.  At least the client knows something when leaves his house to go to the airport.

3.  Luis not having any minutes on his cell phone to contact the girls after a client has arrived..was claimed.  Again...no excuse for this to happen, if in fact it is true.   There must be a way for Luis to be able to make some calls when necessary for the client.

I think examples like these....they have heard both sides of the explanation and are mainly waiting for you to say..." To avoid this in the future, this is what I'm going to do...x,y, and z and I will make double sure that it's taken care."

Again...I'm only going by what I read and for the sake of arguement...let's say everyone is lying or exaggerating. Steps should to be taking to avoid the "possiblity" of a percieved problem.  Just remove all doubt...as much as possible.  Have someone initiate a phone call or e-mail 1 or 2 days prior.....Something...just to let the client feel safe and feel like everything is ready and waiting for him.  No one should be wondering, "what's going to happen and who am I going to meet."  They should already know who they will meet and been reassured someone will be waiting to pick them up at the airport.  The less the client has to call and the less questions the client has...the better.

These are the things I think they are waiting for you to say.  I'm only trying to help you out here dude.

[atomik]

Mark, I wish my boss was as loyal to me as you are to Luis.  But to clear up a point.  We paid Luis, not Mike, not the phoney captain.  I agree Mike should have been more involved prior to the trip, but I believe he trusted me to pay him when we got back. Enough said.  I'm over it.

Just don't call me prejudiced again.

[josh]

Mark,

I would like to add one other thing to Sean's excellent objective summary without ever being personal.  Again, it's nothing personal, just bringing something to your notice so that it can be corrected. EP has mentioned in his report that he wanted to meet Osmiy, but Lius told him that a friend of his had already locked her down about a month ago!. She was one of the highly touted girls in your last month announcement about ADC spring edition. I am not sure what exactly happened but at the very least it would be very nice if she is taken off the website if she is no more available.

Josh