Fires in the streets in Caracas

[gcman1]

el ruso you really have no idea of the history of Ven...truely you could not be more wrong..since you live in maimi  do not tell anyone you know from Ven of your uninformed opinion i have been going and doing business there over 25 years and this man is destroying the country and it is NOT democratic vote that has kept him in power

[daytrader]

el ruso sez - Yet...  nobody in US is calling for a violent overthrow of President Bush.

El Ruso, for a guy that has made many good comments on this site, you are coming across as very unimformed in this matter. 

Please do a google search on "impeach Bush"...."kill bush"  -- the TOP LEADERSHIP of the Democrats in Congress advocate impeachment of Bush. 

NOTE: Impeachment is similar to overthrowing a President if there is no impeachable offense the President has committed.  When top leaders of the other major party advocate impeachment of Bush with NO evidence to back it up, it is reckless, irresponsible. 
(to those saying "Bush lied, people died", explain how Hillary and Bill both parroted the fact that Saddam had WMD before 2001.  It's on tape, it's documented.  Get over it and grow up.  All major intelligence agencies of the West concurred with what the CIA stated to Presidents Clinton (before 9/11) and Bush (after 9/11).  Bush has made a lot of stupid mistakes, but he has not violated any laws that would warrant impeachment. 


When Senator Reid says "The Iraq war is lost", that is treasonous behavior and IS NOT supporting the troops.   When not funding the troops, that is NOT supporting the troops. 

El Ruso, For God sakes, there is a movie made recently showing the assassination of Bush ("Death of a President") ! 

NOTE: when advocating the killing of a sitting President, that is advocating VIOLENCE against our President.  Link below, explaining this for those that are not informed. 

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MichelleMalkin/2006/09/13/kill_bush_mania

If Chavez has a problem with person or persons advocating the overthrow of the government, the arrest THE INDIVIDUALS.  This is equal to shutting down CBS NEWS (probably a good idea) because Dan Rather falsified a National Guard Memo and tried to throw an election to Gore.  Because Dan Rather and Mary Mapes tried to INTERFERE in a LEGAL ELECTION, the government should shut down CBS NEWS, right El Ruso? 

Preposterous....just arrest Mapes and Rather and let CBS News, I mean CBS Lies, goes on, spinning anti-war subversion on 60 Minutes regularly. 

I respectfully suggest you do some fresh outside reading El Ruso, so you can return to your normal brilliant self! 

Regards,

DayTrader

[el_ruso]

again, I am NOT supporting Chavez's policies.  However, I support the democratic process and the right of citizens to elect their own government.  If people in Venezuela or Iran elect those people, it's sad but it's life.  Support of democracy should be universal, not only when the winning candidate is the one you like.

Here in US there are people who are opposed to Bush's policies, yet they are not inciting violence or calling for a violent overthrow of his administration.  He was elected by a majority (at least the second time around), so he is entitled to run the country.  The majority of voters in Venezuela support Chavez at this point, so the opposition should challenge him through democratic means.  Otherwise, they are making themselves look real bad, and making him look good.

[el_ruso]

To DT,

Yes there are freaks on the left that might make comments about impeaching Bush, etc.  However, they are on the far fringe, and no major TV station backs them.  Chavez could jail certain individuals, but that will actually make him look bad, as if he is undermining freedom of press.  This was a politically calculated move, and he chose this approach as it was potentially less damaging to him politically.

Democrats are indeed engaged in a political struggle with Republicans and try to throw things at Bush to see if anything sticks.  That's what Republicans were doing to Clinton.  However, that is nothing comparable to violent outburst launched by Chavez's opposition.  They attack passersby, beat on passing vehicles, and try to essentially provoke a violent crackdown by the government - so far unsuccessfully.  Democrats have not staged a military coup to oust Bush either.  Nor Republicans - to oust Clinton.

I do not support Chavez.  However, I am not a Venezuelan citizen.  If they choose to vote for him, it's their right, and I guess they deserve him.  Realistically oil prices will have to go down at some point, and his regime will collapse on its own.

[daytrader]

I repeat.....For God sakes, there is a movie made recently showing the assassination of Bush "Death of a President"

advocating killing a sitting President is advocating violence.....please go the blackboard and write this phrase 300 times el ruso.....

Congressman John Murtha is not on the fringe of politics - he wants Bush impeached!  **fact** He is chairman of an Appropriations subcommittee!  **fact** Representative John Conyers also is for impeaching Bush. The Democratic party is not a fringe part of the American Political Process! 

I already documented that Chavez' recent elections were NOT FAIR (see earlier post linked to AmericanThinker.com) **fact**

I also documented that Dan Rather/CBS News tried to throw a Presidential election.  **fact** (also write that 300 times on the other blackboard, el ruso.) 

I lived in Florida during both Bush elections, and Demon-crats tried throwing out thousands of overseas GI ballots **fact** and inventing phantom votes in 2000 **fact**.  Katherine Harris, Secretary of State of Florida followed the freaking law in certifying LEGAL votes  **fact**.  The vote supression alleged in Florida were in DEMOCRATIC CONTROLLED COUNTIES **fact** el ruso!  The incompetent Democratic Supervisors of Elections screwed up their OWN BALLOTS  **fact**.  No GOP suppression there, bro.  **opinion**

....to quote someone else..."shining the light of truth" on the uninformed....

DayTrader 

[daytrader]

EL RUSO sez - If a TV station called for a violent overthrow of President Bush, I am 100% sure its license would not be renewed either.

Just to bring everyone up to date, Ortega & Chavez had a 3 hour press conference last night that was broadcast on all tv channels....Chavez is threatening to take over the last remaining free non-government TV station, Globalvision.  So, El Ruso, what did Globalvision do wrong?  nothing...there is no legal basis for Chavez to take over Globalvision.  We are seeing the re-creation of a southern hemisphere Berlin-wall before our very eyes, if this takeover of all VZ media happens. 

DayTrader

[Diablo]

Reason why Chavez may takedown Globovision

Globovision has been criticized by many different sectors, in particular Chávez's government, where they accuse this channel of manipulating information, conspiracy, giving air time to the opposition (but not to the government), and racism, to name a few. Globovision, during the de facto government of Pedro Carmona, refused to show pro-Chávez demonstrations demanding the resignation of Carmona or the looting that occurred on April 12 and 13, 2002 (in contrast with the international media).

Despite claims that freedom of speech is not respected by the Government, Globovision and other channels (among them RCTV) have been able to broadcast news and comments that, by international standards, could be considered hostile to a Government. Strong negative opinions regarding Chávez and the Government are aired on a daily basis in Globovision. The Washington Post, in an article covering the Chávez government's refusal to renew the license of RCTV, reported that "[f]ree expression is exercised in Venezuela. Another influential television station, Globovision, lambastes the Chávez government frequently ... "[1] Globovision is able to broadcast outside of Venezuela, and does so through satellite television. The channel can currently be seen in most Latin American countries as a 24-hour news channel. Nevertheless, Globovision has been the target of violent assaults to their equipment and journalists at various pro-government marches and protests.[citation needed] Additionally, microwave equipment, which allows for live transmissions, has been seized by the Government in the past.[citation needed]

This channel had major coverage of the take over of Plaza Francia in Altamira (a wealthy neighborhood in the eastern part of Caracas) by a group of military officers that opposed Chavez. Over the next year, Globovisión would transmit, with great frequency, any news that occurred in this specific plaza. They also had major coverage of the general strike of 2002 and 2003, in which they supported the opposition in pressuring the resignation of Chávez. It is not strange (being a 24-hour news network), that Globovisión reports on these types of events, but many people believe that almost all of the news events that are covered by this channel are almost always negative towards Chavez.

However, people say that the government is abusing freedom of speech and press, especially after periodic inspections of CONATEL (the telecommunications council of Venezuela) and the implementation of the controversial Social Responsibility in Radio and Television Law (Ley Resorte). The Ley Resorte forces channels (in this case Globovision) to mention what type the following program is, that it may contain elements of language, health, sex, and violence, and whether it can be seen by children and/or adolescents (also, whether the show is of national production). It also forces channels to have more programs aimed at children and adolescents.

On May 29, 2007, President Chávez claimed during a speech that Globovision had been actively encouraging civil unrest in Venezuela, as well as his assassination. His claim on the latter was based on broadcast footage of the attempted murder of Pope John Paul II (which was part of a series of pictures showing the RCTV historical news coverage) in combination with a song titled "Esto no termina aquí" ("This does not end here"). The Venezuelan Government proceeded to file a complaint against Globovision with the Attorney General Office on this matter.[2] Venezuelan students marched in the streets to protest the closure of RCTV and threats to Globovision. Globovision's director, Alberto Ravell, said, "We are not going to change our editorial line that we are not afraid of the threats from this government." [3]

Globovisión has also received direct shutdown threats by Chávez. On June 2, 2007, during a large public congregation of PSUV supporters at which Chávez was the main speaker, Globovisión and other channels received threats of potential shutdown in the future. In his speech, Chávez said that any channel can have its transmission concession withdrawn even before it expires, if it doesn't abide by the country's Constitution or laws.

[Diablo]

el ruso you really have no idea of the history of Ven...truely you could not be more wrong..since you live in maimi  do not tell anyone you know from Ven of your uninformed opinion i have been going and doing business there over 25 years and this man is destroying the country and it is NOT democratic vote that has kept him in power

With all due respect to gcman1. I can't argue much with you since you have been there and I haven't. However I do correspond alot with people who live there. I suspect when you did visit you probably didn't roam around and visit the impoverished areas. Its okay to say this when you are a guest in another country and staying in the  comfort of a hotel room. Staying in tourist areas or the safe areas where the rich and well off are.

One does not have to visit VEN consistently to notice the injustices that goes on there. This man was democratically elected by a majority vote. We aren't talking 41% vote but 60%+. that is significant. And these are hard to forge.

I would advise you take a look at the documentary "The revolution will not be televised"

Here is the link.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144

and

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=7658830544320971019

[Diablo]

If this man Chavez is a monster he is a product of the Venezuelan elite's corruption and injustices and failure to look after their own people.

[DVito]

Chavez is reportedly a fan of Baranquilla women. Some of you guys can't fault him there....

[daytrader]

Diablo sez - Despite claims that freedom of speech is not respected by the Government, Globovision and other channels (among them RCTV) have been able to broadcast news and comments that, by international standards, could be considered hostile to a Government. Strong negative opinions regarding Chávez and the Government are aired on a daily basis in Globovision.

Thanks for the update Diablo....freedom is messy....your info about Globalvision sounds very similar to  Dan Rather/60 Minutes fake National Guard Memo that tried to throw a Presidential election to Gore in 2000.  Rather was completely disgraced by the affair. 

Most socialists, all dictators,  and all communists don't like freedom of the press - Take your pick, Chavez is turning into a dictator, socialist or communist.  Hopefully Colombia and Chile won't be destablized by this political turmoil.

DayTrader

[Diablo]

Most socialists, all dictators,  and all communists don't like freedom of the press - Take your pick, Chavez is turning into a dictator, socialist or communist.  Hopefully Colombia and Chile won't be destablized by this political turmoil.

DayTrader

What's happening in Venezuela is very likely to happen in Colombia too.

Read this article from BBC illustrating how the rich steal from the poor.

Here is the link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4254211.stm

"Half of the money put aside by the Colombian government to help the country's poor is benefiting people who do not need it, a study has found.

A total of 24.2 trillion pesos ($10.2bn; £5.5bn) is earmarked for subsidies for the poor, the government department for planning said.

But it also found 12.1 trillion pesos was going to the richest part of the population, rather than to those in need.

Sound distribution of the cash could cut poverty levels to 36% from 53%, the government believes.

"Resources are more than enough to reduce poverty and there is no need for more tax reforms but a better distribution," deputy planning director Jose Leibovich said.

Rich-poor divide

Colombia has a population of about 44 million and half lives below poverty line.

However, some large properties are paying less in tax as they are situated inside poor areas, which benefit from cheaper utilities such as electricity and water, government research found.

Government expenditure in areas such as pensions, public services, education, property and health should be revised, Mr Leibovich said.

He added that the government is now examining the report, but warned there would be no easy solution to the problem.

With a good distribution of such subsidies and economic growth of just 2%, by 2019 poverty could fall as low as 15.3%, he said."

This is the sole basis for what is happening n Venezuela. The rich take and the poor never get any. The poor get fed up of this crap. Some guy from the left promises to look after the poor and share with them and re-write the constitution for the benefit of the poor. So yes it is very possible and probably very likely some guy will come to government promising Colombians everything that Chavez is.

When that happens...

Well we will never know until it does.

history does have a funny way of repeating itself.

[Diablo]

Also notice how most Latin American countries are moving to a leftist curve.

Chile, Brazil, Venezuela, Ecuador,Nicaragua, Brazil.

some are more center left but the move towards the left is undeniable.

[utopiacowboy]

It's only a question of time before Colombia comes under the sway of the same type of leftist government especially as rich as we are making these tinhorn dictators. I wouldn't be putting any eggs in that basket.

[Diablo]

It's only a question of time before Colombia comes under the sway of the same type of leftist government especially as rich as we are making these tinhorn dictators. I wouldn't be putting any eggs in that basket.

exactly my point. Just a matter of time. then we can probably kiss the MOB good bye.

you would be a naive fool to not notice the leftist movement going on.

[el_ruso]

DT,

If there was a movie calling for assassination of Bush, it is abominable, and the only people who might support it are very few nuts on the extreme of the extreme.  Inasmuch as I am not his fan, calling for assassination of a president should be punishable.

Diablo,

I agree with you 100%.  Chavez, Castro et al are products of the situation in their countries, and the elites at whom they lashed out have created their own mess.  Will they solve their countries problems?  Hell no.  But the segments of the population have little to lose, no options and no hope.

[daytrader]

El Ruso sez - If there was a movie calling for assassination of Bush, it is abominable, and the only people who might support it are very few nuts on the extreme of the extreme.

"If there was a movie...."  El Ruso still is in  a state of denial, he refuses to accept the fact a movie was made and released in FOURTEEN countries (including the USA) around the World.

"the only people who might support it are very few nuts on the extreme of the extreme" - El Ruso again denies the obvious by not investigating the facts. The movie received large press coverage and was shown in mainline cinemas. 

movie release info via link
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/releaseinfo

When querying Google News for Death of a President only in 2006, there are 17,000+ news clippings directly relating to the movie. 

El Ruso, you are in denial..you're still a cool dude and I like your posts, but you are in denial bro.   

RE: UC & Diablo's comments about Colombia likely tilting leftward;

Your opinion you are entitled to, but I think Colombia has some societal maturity and a long history of a strong democracy (conservative society values & strong Catholic influence)-- I am not as negative as you are.  Uribe and the clear majority that re-elected him is a huge mandate.  Business is booming in many parts of the country, and everyone that is in a socialist country is poor and suffers from chronic inflation, caused by government overspending.  Government and high taxes have NEVER created wealth, only capitalism and entrepreneurism can. 

Recommended reading is  "The Road to Serfdom".  I'm still optimistic about the situation, but there is clear danger. 

Yes, Nicaragua has slid back from a conservative, capitalist system, but even Ortega knows he can't have a full fledged socialist state, he only wanted to tinker around the edges, otherwise he risks being voted out.  Once the middle class gets a taste of freedom and private ownership, socialism is a 'weak sister'. 


DayTrader

[pan de bono]

Diablo, some SA countries are moving to a left curve, but some are moving right back. Brazil moved a little to the left when Lolu got voted in but he has since seen the light and is moving back to center and even a little right on some subjects.
As for blaming the likes of Chavez on the elitist of Venezuela you may have a point there but that seems to be the case of almost all SA countries. these SA countries move left then right, then communist, then dictators, then back to the democracy, back and forth they fo riots, rebels, corruption, back and forth they go through out history.
Hell Chavez could get kicked out of town tomorrow and everything would change over night. These countries switch so often i cant even keep up with it. I have a Brazillian friend that lives here in the states now, he told me thats why he moved out of Brazil, he said it was for ever changing, he couldnt keep up with the goverment and the laws and the finances, he said it drove him crazy so he sold everything and moved to the US. By the way what is the latest on venezuela, last i heard Chavez was shutting down some TV stations and people were rioting, that was about 5 or 6 days ago, has anyone heard whats happened since then?

[michaelb]

I've been watching it from time to time.....looks kind of like watching the move Evita, with 3 exceptions:
1) You never see his wife*
2) Very little singing, what little there is isn't very good.
3) Antonio Banderas never steps out of the crowd to tell us what's going on.


*Chavez doesn't HAVE a wife. He has two ex's, rumor is neither of them will even speak to him.

[Diablo]

Diablo, some SA countries are moving to a left curve, but some are moving right back. Brazil moved a little to the left when Lolu got voted in but he has since seen the light and is moving back to center and even a little right on some subjects.
As for blaming the likes of Chavez on the elitist of Venezuela you may have a point there but that seems to be the case of almost all SA countries. these SA countries move left then right, then communist, then dictators, then back to the democracy, back and forth they fo riots, rebels, corruption, back and forth they go through out history.
Hell Chavez could get kicked out of town tomorrow and everything would change over night. These countries switch so often i cant even keep up with it. I have a Brazillian friend that lives here in the states now, he told me thats why he moved out of Brazil, he said it was for ever changing, he couldnt keep up with the goverment and the laws and the finances, he said it drove him crazy so he sold everything and moved to the US. By the way what is the latest on venezuela, last i heard Chavez was shutting down some TV stations and people were rioting, that was about 5 or 6 days ago, has anyone heard whats happened since then?

lets watch and see what happens. shall we?

[daytrader]

Just another Latin American thug....even Reuters considers Chavez a Socialist Dictator...and Al Reuters will not use the term 'terrorist' in referencing Islamic Facists in Iran/Iraq. 

DayTrader


Copyright 2007 Reuters.

CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez told his supporters to give away possessions they do not need such as an extra refrigerator because he only wants true socialists to be members of a new single party he is forming.

"Whoever has a fridge they do not need, put it out in the village square. Whoever has a truck, a fan or a cooker they do not need, give something away. Let's not be selfish. I demand you do it," Chavez said at a milk producing cooperative, in remarks released on Monday.

Chavez, who calls capitalism an evil, said he would donate $250,000 of his own money and added, "Let's see who follows the example."  (Chavez & his family have stolen millions from the government---Daytrader)

The anti-U.S. president who calls Cuban leader Fidel Castro his mentor denies he is turning the OPEC nation of avid consumers into another communist state as his critics say.

But since coming to power in 1999, Chavez has proposed increasingly radical steps to drive Venezuela toward a socialist state and, after a landslide re-election late last year, he declared himself for the first time a communist.

Chavez, who rules by decree, has focused his political ambitions this year on forming a single party from the hodgepodge of affiliations that have traditionally supported him in what he says is his crusade against U.S. imperialism.

Officials say millions of followers have signed up to be members of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela that Chavez plans to use as a platform to govern the country for decades.

"If I were to end up with only five people signing up out of those 5 million, I'd be happier," Chavez said on Sunday in remarks that were distributed on Monday by the government and published in the local media.

"I only want to be accompanied by true socialists," he said.

Chavez's critics complain his constant railing against U.S.-promoted consumerism contrasts with the behavior of senior government officials who can can be seen dining out at fancy restaurants or riding around in expensive cars.

 

[pan de bono]

This guy is a real wack job. I think some day his own people will topple him.