..it is SO much safer to live in the USA than in Colombia....

[Parlay Rey]

It really isnt safe anywhere. THere are large areas of LA-LOS ANGELES- where you dont want to go at night. I stopped at a liquor store near LAX on my way home last Friday.

Huge floodlamps all over the lot. Barbed wire lining the roof. Bars across all of the windows. A fortified bullet-proof emplacement ( 2-inch thick glass) around the cashier with an armored door and including an L-shaped window so that the cashier would never be in the line of fire.

Sure is great being home. . . . .

The picture you paint is sadly, all too accurate. While Los Angeles is one of the 5 places on Earth with that incomparable Mediterranean Climate, I could never live there again. That place is insane.

[Jamie]

Good post Dr. Watson

Having lived in Colombia for over 3 years I find it foolish to compare very small sections of the U.S to Colombia in terms of safety. As I have posted before almost all visitors to Colombia will not be affected by the high crime rate if they take the right precautions. If you compare a middle class neighborhood in a major city of Colombia to a middle class neighborhood in a U.S city you will find the crime rate will be significantly higher in Colombia. It will be of such heighten proportions to the U.S that I find it comical for anyone to even attempt to justify any similarities in safety to you and your property. Understand most crime is not reported in Colombia. The Colombia system complicates the process of reporting a crime that most people do not even bother. It starts with you having to take a trip to the police station; the police will not come to you to fill out a report. You then have to pay for an application to fill out a report… the process then goes down hill from there.

Comparing the country side of the U.S to Colombia would give you a like extreme. My wife wanted me to come with her to a baptism last weekend 2 hours south of Santa Marta but her friend that lived in that small town thought it would be too dangerous for me to go. This is only one of many types of restrictions you have to live with in Colombia.

Don’t let occasional visitors to Colombia tell you the state of crime in Colombia.

[jm21-2]

The countryside in America is not particularly safe either. I grew up in a small town in Oregon and meth makers and dealers have become a serious threat. The town where I spent most of my youth, McMinnville (now often called McMethville) has joined the ranks of towns like Philomath (Philometh). The property crime rate is about the same as Chicago.

My best friend lived in the town where I was born (Lafeyette, which was a close competitor for the capitol of the state, but a piece of [snip] by the time I was born) and had his car broken into frequently. They even stole the AM radio out of his dad's piece of [snip] old truck. He constantly complained about them leaving the car door open after they broke into his car, because it would run down the battery and he couldn't start it.

I know people in the country who've owned as many as 200+ guns personally. I've known militias. I've encountered groups of guys with assault rifles riding in the back of trucks out in the country. Rarely will you see a speed limit sign in the country without bullet holes.

I have not been to Colombia, so I can't compare, but I don't think the comparison would be ridiculous or extreme from the posts I've seen here.

[daytrader]

For the most part, good helpful comments on this thread. 

From my experience in Cali and Bogota  an intelligent foreign national would  live in a high rise or sturdy townhouse (especially in Bogota), the townhouses & high rise complexes I saw in Bogota look nearly impregnable compared to American construction standards. 

Autos are kept inside garages that have double layered doors/gates (especially in Bogota) and windows are barred but still have a nice view.  If I was to live in Cali, I would pick a high rise in the South of Cali, although some of the townhomes (with a pool) looked safe and secure..most every shop is within walking distance.  Cars are garaged in a secure environment at the high rises.  At night, always travel in numbers when possible, but don't be paranoid if you are in the better barrios. 

I don't think I would worry about robbery or fear of my car being vandalized overnight if I lived in one of these homes.   

Jamie's experience about driving to Santa Marta is good info for THAT area....driving outside of Cali has been reported safe by several limo drivers I know there for sometime, however, don't pull off the side of the road at night and expect everything to be hunky dorey. 

Myself, I would never be out on the road as a gringo alone far outside of town, rather have a professional handle the driving.

Don't be paranoid, but don't be stupid guys.  Things are coming unhinged in many parts of the USA, it's not the idyllic tranquil place it used to be when I was a kid, that's a shame. 

DayTrader

[Jeff S]

Coming unhinged?





From here: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict.htm

According to Steven D. Levitt, author of Freakonimics, it's because we're aborting unwanted babies instead of letting them grow up to be criminals.

http://www.amazon.com/Freakonomics-Economist-Explores-Hidden-Everything/dp/006073132X

- Jeff

[papi]

Having lived in Colombia for over 3 years I find it foolish to compare...

yes, very foolish indeed. It is one of the most dangerous countries on the planet. period

[daytrader]

Thanks for the cold-blooded statistics Jeff...tell that to the restuarant manager shot and killed last night, the dentist's wife whose car was carjacked and she killed after leaving a fashionable mall in Ft. Lauderdale last week, and the middle aged woman riding a bike in a nice part of town (not far from me) and she was never heard from again (last month)...and Las Vegas just won the first place for most stolen cars per 1000 people again this year. 

The anecdotal evidence gathered from my observations and many other Americans I know is frightening...  It used to be America was a collection of law abiding people that had the same values...

If crime really was going down, then property insurance rates would be decreasing for those type of losses....never has happened from my vantage point.  That is the true measure of how much crime there is... have property/casualty claims gone down?  (link -- http://www.hobsoninventory.com/statistics.asp)

Every ten seconds a home in the USA is burglarized....6 MILLION burglaries a year! 

Crime is increasing in the USA in places that never had crime waves before and partly from many illegal immigrants/Mexican gang activity (especially in rural areas). Do you know that illegal immigrants kill 12 Americans every day?  (link below)

http://wizbangblog.com/2006/11/29/illegal-aliens-kill-12-americans-every-day.php


Time magazine pull quote and link below concerning the outbreak of unprecedented crime statistics in America's Midwest:

U.S. prisons release an average of 630,000 inmates each year, and that number will rise for the foreseeable future as more and more sentences run out from arrests made during the Reagan Administration's war on drugs in the 1980s and the zero-tolerance crackdown in the '90s. Calculate in average recidivism rates of 40% for those released from federal penitentiaries and 67% for those who leave state facilities, and it's clear that more crimes are being committed because there are simply more criminals around to commit them. Says Milwaukee district attorney E. Michael McCann: "We're charging the same guys who came through our doors 10 or 20 years ago."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1565527-3,00.html

DayTrader

[watson]

Jamie and Newbies,

Thank you for the facts “on the ground in Colombia.”  Originally Daytrader said comparing national murder statistics between the U.S. (24th of 62 surveyed nations) versus Colombia (highest murder rate worldwide) was “meaningless” because these figures did not separate indigenous from foreign murder victims.  (Daytrader: “Dr. Watson's comments are regurgitating "aggregate" data when specific data relating to Europeans and Americans is germane. How many Americans and Europeans comprise the Colombian murder rate? That would be a relevant post and very useful information. Taking aggregate data of mostly drug/civil war participants killing off other drug/civil war participants is not relevant here.”)

In a later post he makes a statistical comparison by doing what he previously asserted was “not relevant.”  He compares the national Colombian murder rate to two high-crime cities in the U.S.  (Daytrader: “murders per 100,000 comparison in the 'safe' USA vs Colombia: 60 --- Aggregate # of entire country of Colombia (includes civil/drug war deaths in rural areas); 36 --- Oakland, CA; 30 --- Philadelphia, PA”)

The proper comparison is nation to nation and city to city.  Take the U.S.’s high crime cities and compare them to Colombia’s high-crime cities.  Then you will have valid comparisons.  (I have already compared the nation to nation statistics and given the source link in my first post to this topic.  Colombia has roughly 15 times more murders per capita than the U.S.) 

I pursue this topic because I read some agency literature claiming Colombia is about as safe as certain large American cities.  That is, statistically, false.  Your membership data notes that you are an agency owner. Thank you for being accurate about this – sugar coating eventually wears thin.

Montrealer, a now-married forum member native to Canada, now resides in Baranquilla.  His wife insists that her brother accompany him on certain of his outings.  Perhaps she is irrational.  Perhaps her brother humors her and inconveniences himself to accompany him.  Or, maybe Montrealer is Canada’s Brad Pitt and Sra. Montrealer, insanely jealous, has her brother keep Montrealer away from the chica cartel waiting for their opportunity to nab him.  Or, most likely, Sra. Montrealer, a native Colombiana, loves her husband, realistically assesses the risks he faces, and takes appropriate measures; and perhaps her brother, while loving Montrealer somewhat less than she does, agrees that Montrealer should have a local to keep him out of trouble.  Montrealer has not refused his brother-in-law’s efforts, though he would like to travel alone if he could.  Is he irrational or paranoid?  Would this be the case were the couple living in the Daytrader’s “unhinged” USA? (Montrealer: “Also the constant security issue is a little annoying. I'm used to going off and doing things on my own, and my wife won't let me do much without my brother-in-law going with me. I like my brother-in-law and everything, but sometimes I just want to do stuff alone, just for the sake of having some alone time.” Life in BAQ (after 8 months)).

Newbies and those inclined to listen to “it’s not really that different” advice: Colombia has beautiful women with generally different attitudes about themselves and marriage compared to other cultures, including my own. It has a great, verdant countryside and a lower cost-of-living than the U.S.  It would be paradise but for the violence.  I appreciate what Jamie and Montrealer are telling us about the risks.  They are different from the US by an order of magnitude – so are the women. 

Dr. Watson

[papi]

They are different from the US by an order of magnitude – so are the women. 

Dr, i do concur. Interesting to also note your comments on the women. Baffling at times but true..

[Parlay Rey]

Lively debate from experts, expats and everyone else in between. The effervescence intellectual stimulation is invigorating! Thank you gentlemen!

Allow me to fan the embers. I married a Colombiana knowing damn well that the job was dangerous when I took it. Sure, I'd like to retire there someday, if nothing more than to make my money go further in my golden years. However, I do so with my eyes wide open:


SOURCE
Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)

DEFINITION
Total recorded intentional homicides, completed. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1,000 population.


Crime Statistics > Murders (per capita) by country
VIEW DATA:         Totals            Per capita    
   Definition     Source      Printable version   
          Bar Graph            Map            Correlations    
Rank      Countries     Amount  (top to bottom)   
#1      Colombia:    0.617847 per 1,000 people      
#2      South Africa:    0.496008 per 1,000 people      
#3      Jamaica:    0.324196 per 1,000 people      
#4      Venezuela:    0.316138 per 1,000 people      
#5      Russia:    0.201534 per 1,000 people      
#6      Mexico:    0.130213 per 1,000 people      
#7      Estonia:    0.107277 per 1,000 people      
#8      Latvia:    0.10393 per 1,000 people      
#9      Lithuania:    0.102863 per 1,000 people      
#10      Belarus:    0.0983495 per 1,000 people      
#11      Ukraine:    0.094006 per 1,000 people      
#12      Papua New Guinea:    0.0838593 per 1,000 people      
#13      Kyrgyzstan:    0.0802565 per 1,000 people      
#14      Thailand:    0.0800798 per 1,000 people      
#15      Moldova:    0.0781145 per 1,000 people      
#16      Zimbabwe:    0.0749938 per 1,000 people      
#17      Seychelles:    0.0739025 per 1,000 people      
#18      Zambia:    0.070769 per 1,000 people      
#19      Costa Rica:    0.061006 per 1,000 people      
#20      Poland:    0.0562789 per 1,000 people      
#21      Georgia:    0.0511011 per 1,000 people      
#22      Uruguay:    0.045082 per 1,000 people      
#23      Bulgaria:    0.0445638 per 1,000 people      
#24      United States:    0.042802 per 1,000 people      
#25      Armenia:    0.0425746 per 1,000 people      
#26      India:    0.0344083 per 1,000 people      
#27      Yemen:    0.0336276 per 1,000 people      
#28      Dominica:    0.0289733 per 1,000 people      
#29      Azerbaijan:    0.0285642 per 1,000 people      
#30      Finland:    0.0283362 per 1,000 people      
#31      Slovakia:    0.0263303 per 1,000 people      
#32      Romania:    0.0250784 per 1,000 people      
#33      Portugal:    0.0233769 per 1,000 people      
#34      Malaysia:    0.0230034 per 1,000 people      
#35      Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of:    0.0229829 per 1,000 people      
#36      Mauritius:    0.021121 per 1,000 people      
#37      Hungary:    0.0204857 per 1,000 people      
#38      Korea, South:    0.0196336 per 1,000 people      
#39      Slovenia:    0.0179015 per 1,000 people      
#40      France:    0.0173272 per 1,000 people      
#41      Czech Republic:    0.0169905 per 1,000 people      
#42      Iceland:    0.0168499 per 1,000 people      
#43      Australia:    0.0150324 per 1,000 people      
#44      Canada:    0.0149063 per 1,000 people      
#45      Chile:    0.014705 per 1,000 people      
#46      United Kingdom:    0.0140633 per 1,000 people      
#47      Italy:    0.0128393 per 1,000 people      
#48      Spain:    0.0122456 per 1,000 people      
#49      Germany:    0.0116461 per 1,000 people      
#50      Tunisia:    0.0112159 per 1,000 people      
#51      Netherlands:    0.0111538 per 1,000 people      
#52      New Zealand:    0.0111524 per 1,000 people      
#53      Denmark:    0.0106775 per 1,000 people      
#54      Norway:    0.0106684 per 1,000 people      
#55      Ireland:    0.00946215 per 1,000 people      
#56      Switzerland:    0.00921351 per 1,000 people      
#57      Indonesia:    0.00910842 per 1,000 people      
#58      Greece:    0.0075928 per 1,000 people      
#59      Hong Kong:    0.00550804 per 1,000 people      
#60      Japan:    0.00499933 per 1,000 people      
#61      Saudi Arabia:    0.00397456 per 1,000 people      
#62      Qatar:    0.00115868 per 1,000 people      
   Weighted average:    0.1 per 1,000 people      


DEFINITION: Total recorded intentional homicides, completed. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1,000 population.

SOURCE: Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

[Parlay Rey]

Interpret the numbers as you see fit and hate the message, not the messenger.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders

Crime Statistics > Murders by country
VIEW DATA:         Totals            Per capita    
   Definition     Source      Printable version   
          Bar Graph            Pie Chart            Map            Correlations    
Rank      Countries     Amount  (top to bottom)   
#1      India:    37,170      
#2      Russia:    28,904      
#3      Colombia:    26,539      
#4      South Africa:    21,995      
#5      Mexico:    13,829      
#6      United States:    12,658      
#7      Venezuela:    8,022      
#8      Thailand:    5,140      
#9      Ukraine:    4,418      
#10      Indonesia:    2,204      
#11      Poland:    2,170      
#12      France:    1,051      
#13      Belarus:    1,013      
#14      Germany:    960      
#15      Korea, South:    955      
#16      Zimbabwe:    912      
#17      Jamaica:    887      
#18      United Kingdom:    850      
#19      Zambia:    797      
#20      Italy:    746      
#21      Yemen:    697      
#22      Japan:    637      
#23      Romania:    560      
#24      Malaysia:    551      
#25      Spain:    494      
#26      Canada:    489      
#27      Papua New Guinea:    465      
#28      Kyrgyzstan:    413      
#29      Lithuania:    370      
#30      Moldova:    348      
#31      Bulgaria:    332      
#32      Australia:    302      
#33      Portugal:    247      
#34      Costa Rica:    245      
#35      Georgia:    239      
#36      Latvia:    238      
#37      Chile:    235      
#38      Azerbaijan:    226      
#39      Hungary:    205      
#40      Netherlands:    183      
#41      Czech Republic:    174      
#42      Uruguay:    154      
#43      Finland:    148      
#44      Estonia:    143      
#45      Slovakia:    143      
#46      Armenia:    127      
#47      Tunisia:    113      
#48      Saudi Arabia:    105      
#49      Greece:    81      
#50      Switzerland:    69      
#51      Denmark:    58      
#53      Norway:    49      
#54      Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of:    47      
#55      New Zealand:    45      
#56      Ireland:    38      
#57      Hong Kong:    38      
#58      Slovenia:    36      
#59      Mauritius:    26      
#60      Seychelles:    6      
#61      Iceland:    5      
#62      Dominica:    2      
#63      Qatar:    1      
   Total:    180,304 
   Weighted average:    2,908.1      


DEFINITION: Total recorded intentional homicides, completed. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.

SOURCE: Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)

[daytrader]

Now that everyone has had their say, how about a new variable to the crime mix....

What is the risk of a major American city (where many of us may live) getting hit with a terrorist attack from a radical Islamic in the next 10 years vs the risk of a equally bad terrorist attack in Colombia or Panama?  Assume the terrorist attack is a dirty bomb, nuke, poison in the air/drinking water etc.  If you split your time equally per 12 months between LA  (Cali, Medellin, Bogota, PC) and NA (San Fran, Miami, LA, NY/Boston or similar). 

I don't think the bad guys in the Middle East are going to waste their time in South America, they're going to go after America and London.  So we could be enjoying our safety in the USA and die from a Middle East terrorist attack, yet if we were in SA, we would probably not have any risk of such attack. 

DayTrader

[utopiacowboy]

I spend zero time worrying about a terrorist attack. And my house is unlocked 24 x 7 day and night, whether we are there or not. It took my wife a while to get used to this kind of safety because in Medellin the first thing you do after you get in the house is lock all the locks on the door. Even while you are in the house! For her it was an adjustment leaving everything unlocked. When we are in Medellin, safety is always something you think about. If you're going downtown take off the jewelry and watches etc. I hate thinking about my personal safety all the time - it's a burden. Of course things are different in Monteria where the AUC rule may not please the ACLU types but a gringo can walk around the city in safety even late at night. It's a hot noisy dusty sh*thole but I like it for that very reason - along with its exhuberant vitality.

[daytrader]

Congrats UT on living in an idyllic peaceful area of the USA...for those of us in San Fran, DC, NY, Miami, Chicago we might consider the risks being there full time vs the risk of an attack IMO...that's why I'm considering living out of country a fair/most amount of the time.  Caribbean basin looks good to me.  I wouldn't consider living in Colombia or Costa Rica full time due to the security situation.  I can afford thinking about stuff like that cuz I'm self employed with no dependents (for the time being). 

DayTrader

[papi]

I married a Colombiana knowing damn well that the job was dangerous when I took it. Sure, I'd like to retire there someday, if nothing more than to make my money go further in my golden years. However, I do so with my eyes wide open:

I am glad to see you are going with eyes wide open. However, you have missed some of the required reading (Papi's March Newsletter) with respect to your money going farther in Latin America - it won't.

1. In the USA, you can make dollars

2. Latin America is no longer the bargain it once was
      a. price creep caused in part by gringos going south - supply/demand
      b. weak dollar

There are bargains but expect to pay the same or far more for many items. Instead, consider south Texas for retirement.

On the safety issue, I don't have to read a bunch of charts to know Colombia is a dangerous country. This is common knowledge and common sense.

[Dan Las Vegas]

For the record, I will state that I believe Colombia is a dangerous country, but I also believe that we all should evaluate the personal risks that we face and make the appropriate decisions. While I have stated earlier in my thread that I feel safe for the most part in Medellin, after I wrote that, I went with my novia to the Monterrey Mall and someone tried to pick my pocket! Luckily for me, I kept my wallet in my front pocket and the guy did not get anything for his pitiful efforts. Talking with one of the shopkeepers in the mall, we were told of a robbery there last week, however the person was caught by Mall security and received his just punishment on the spot!! Instant justice colombian style!!

The amount of private security is amazing here in Medellin. The neighborhood where my novia lives has armed security walking around it constantly, the better apartment buildings have armed security at the entrances as well as barred windows, doors etc. The door to her apartment is made of steel, not wood. 

In spite of Colombia being dangerous, I again have enjoyed my time here and look forward to returning again in two months. I only wish I was not returning home to the states in a few days, would certainly enjoy another week in Medellin!!!

[Parlay Rey]

I am glad to see you are going with eyes wide open. However, you have missed some of the required reading (Papi's March Newsletter) with respect to your money going farther in Latin America - it won't.

1. In the USA, you can make dollars

2. Latin America is no longer the bargain it once was
      a. price creep caused in part by gringos going south - supply/demand
      b. weak dollar

There are bargains but expect to pay the same or far more for many items. Instead, consider south Texas for retirement.


On the safety issue, I don't have to read a bunch of charts to know Colombia is a dangerous country. This is common knowledge and common sense.

LOL I must've missed the March issue! Can you email it to me in PDF format? 

#1 You are absolutely correct. But Globalization and the Internet makes it so that you can earn dollars anywhere. Still trying to work the bugs out on how to cut the cord myself.

#2 I'd still have to perform due diligence and who knows how things will be 30 odd years from now when I reach retirement age? a. Are there that many going south? I f so, wouldn't that depend on the country they went to? b. Yes, the dollar is weak and I certainly welcome your input.

#3 "if nothing more"...meaning Colombia has a lot more to offer (me personally) than just a 'gringo' lifestyle. While I'm North American, I'm not gringo. If I wanted that, you're right I'd just move to a different part of the US or to (gringo flooded?) Costa Rica or Panama.

The charts I posted were for the benefit of all, not directed at any one person in particular. Both sides of the debate are presenting good points, and I'm thoroughly enjoying the debate. Love him or hate him daytrader no tiene pelos en la lengua.

[Frank Rizzo]

Well Parlay, I agree on the retirement issue. I'd love to retire there asap. Papi, I still see Colombia as a bargin in real estate and in living costs.

I remember talking to Pete E. and him telling me about the high costs of certain foods (all the stuff in cans, etc.), man I loved that guy. Well, yes for sure, if you continue your north american diet in south america, it's costly. If you're flexible and change your groceries to what the locals eat. Then it's actually really cheap.

[papi]

some things are real bargain, others items are far more pricey. There was a bigger spread 4-5 years ago with a stronger dollar. I can tell you flights have gotten loco. It is now $500 to fly from bogota to panama...this is nuts!

[Frank Rizzo]

Yep Papi, there's no doubt that the poor exchange rate is a bit crippling. I remember not quite a year ago something like 2500 (y algo), that was great. We're bound to see a correction of some type, or at least I hope we do. For those living in Cali, i've got a friend with a ranch and we're going to actually start raising some livestock next year for personal use only. That should be interesting.

From what I hear, there are still all the 3800-4500 executive lunches and that's pretty hard to beat anywhere.

[papi]

the exec lunches are a deal. not the cleanest but still a deal. so is a housekeeper and hair salon. You can also probably still find deals on rent. Still, I will take the good ol USA.

[pan de bono]

Every major city in the world has their own crime statistics, every city has their own bad side of town. Colombia does have its problems with crime but what city/country doesnt?
I have heard stories of crime in Colombia but i personally have never experienced or even seen any crime in Colombia. However, I have experienced and seen plenty of crime in USA.

[daytrader]

Right on pan de bono....you make my point exactly.  I have  heard of many crime stories since moving to the North Miami Beach area (and seen the aftermath of several). 

Common sense rules. 

DayTrader

[william3rd]

Every country has areas where the locals wont go at night. There are certainly large areas of Los Angeles where I would be caught "dead"- or I might end up dead.

I remember when the Russians pulled out of the 84 Olympics-we all know that it was a political tit for tat BUT- one of the reasons that they gave was the high crime rate in Los Angeles. The city fathers and the government were busy telling everyone how safe LA was.

Meanwhile, my step-son was robbed of his bicycle, my car was stolen, and a friend was beaten and robbed, and we couldnt get a single police officer out for hours because of the Olympic security efforts.

I have always felt safer in places like Thailand and Russia than at home. The security I experienced in Cartagena and Barranquila was a little disconcerting because of its thoroughness but I didnt see any crime while I was visiting either.

[daytrader]

have always felt safer in places like Thailand and Russia than at home. The security I experienced in Cartagena and Barranquila was a little disconcerting because of its thoroughness but I didnt see any crime while I was visiting either.

...I like hanging out by the currency exchange places in Cali for a moment or two just to admire the hardware the guards are carrying...some of the guards have auto-loading  (or rapid reloading) shotguns ...very cool armaments, not to be messed with, IMO.  The most pathetic guards I saw were at the malls in Cali...an attack rabbit on steriods could handle those wimps...

DayTrader