spanish 101 (not a show stopper)

[Fuzzyone]

wrong answer. besides communication is overrated...lol

   If we look at your past history which you have posted here (thank you). You are a poster child for learning spanish, because if you had knew spanish before you started this grand quest you started some years ago you might have been married along time ago. Communication is one of the most important items in a marriage. Having the ideal a woman is to be seen and not heard is kinda like a cave man right?

[Christopher]

wrong answer. besides communication is overrated...lol

Oh, brother, that's totally wrong.

[papi]

Oh, brother, that's totally wrong.

you may have missed that i wrote lol (laugh out loud). I was joking. But verbal communication is not the only method of communication. Many guys are successful in the FSU, Asia and Latin America even though they were not able to communicate initially. My point is that gringos can go to colombia and be successful without knowing spanish. Yet, it appears I am in the minority even though it is a proven fact.

I am told that TLC posts something like 5000 marriages. Well, I have been to 4 TLC events and very few guys spoke spanish. And I am certain many of those marriages are still together. I am sure AFA has many times this number in the FSU

[papi]

Answer to the quiz:

marries gringo 3 and lives in his crib while banging gringo 2 on the side 

[catz]

It does not matter what the language is or where the girl is from. If you cannot speak and understand the language at all it will put you at a distinct disadvantage.

Can it be done without any language skills? Yes it can be done.

Can you type War And Peace with your eyes closed? Yes it can be done.

The question is why would you try to do such a huge thing when you have the option to open you eyes?

FWIW,
 Catz

[papi]

Catz, but some guys don't have the time or inclination to learn spanish. It is a big undertaking. Should they wait 2-3 years when they can go now on a tour that will hold their hand and provide translators?

Others have gone before them and succeeded. I don't argue that it helps but I feel there are more important issues like getting lucky and finding the right woman in the first place

[catz]

Like I said papi, it can be done. 'tis up to the individual as to whether they want to start this adventure with a handicap.

And Spanish is one of the easier languages to learn overall. Try Chinese or Russian and then that "lack of inclination" would hold more water.

If you want something bad enough you will make the time to do it.

As always, to each his own.

Catz

[papi]

well, i know i am in the minority on this. i guess it is a good thing that the majority of the clients of TLC and AFA don't read this stuff (good for TLC/AFA)...

[papi]

I have a dream....actually call me naive but I actually believe the agency propaganda. An average Joe with no spanish can go to colombia and find a smokin hot latina and live happily ever after

[william3rd]

Catz- you raise a very very important point.

If you cannot communicate with your prospective match, then you will fail. It is completely impossible to go into a relationship (emphasis on the word relationship) without being able to talk directly to your girlfriend.

If you are going to get past that 5 year line of marriage (succeeding in the quest), you need to understand her culture, her language, and most of all, HER. You cant do that unless you can communicate to a deeper level. Translators are not communicating, dictionaries are not communicating and body language is not communicating. At least not to the level that you need to be a success and not a statistic

Can you make a joke that she will see the humor of? Are there certain things that are not done in her culture? Ex- (Thailand. showing the foot to a Buddha, family members, an official. Major insult. Does she correct you when you commit a faux pas? Or tolerate it. . . .which isnt done.

[papi]

i again disagree. Others have succeeded. answer: send the chica to English class.

[papi]

i am into solutions not roadblocks

[bundy_138]

Take me for example.....2 Spanish classes in high school, 2 in college, and then no real classes for 10 years.  Met my novia on line and used a translator.  4 weeks before I made my first trip to Cali, I took a few Spanish classes at the community college for a basic refresher course.  Got to Cali, first few days I had to depend on her for everything, by day 5, I was speaking broken Spanish, day 10, I was pretty confident.

Today, I talk to my novia on the phone 2 hours a night.  My Spanish is not great, but she gets it.  She speaks little to no English. 

So, I met "the one" and spoke no Spanish.  I started learning more because I wanted us to have a real and lasting relationship.  Communication is the key and I still get frustrated with my novia because we cannot communicate on some issues because of the language barrier.

I took Papi's advise and sent my girl to English classes.  6 days a week, 4 hours per day, $125 a month (cost in Cali)  She is excited about learning English and I appreciate the fact that she shows interest in communicating with me.  My Spanish now consists of books, Cd's, and Spanish TV.

Do you have to know Spanish to land a hottie?  No.  Do I recommend it to keep the relationship moving forward?  Yes.  Would it be in your best interest to learn her native language?  Hell yes!

Bundy

Bundy

[Kiltboy1]

I got to agree with William , Bundy, ect.
I speak fluent Spanish, but i also want my wife to be able to talk with my family , daughter, ect and being an Accountant, the English language will make it much faster to get a great job . She is taking English classes , one on one, 5 days a week now , cost 200 dollars a month, she is paying for the lessons , not me, so she is serious about learning English and also she wants to have a great relationship with my family and daughter. For me the language is not an issue, but to land a hottie, you can do that without Spanish if you look nice. But to keep her, no question, you need to know her language and to be able to talk with her family, which you will find to be a very big asset for your marriage if the family likes you, is comfortable with you and respects you, which i am very fortunate that my new family is very concerned that i am happy with them .

KB

[bundy_138]

I totally agree KB.  My novia's family was so impressed that I actually tried to communicate with them.  I know I sounded crazy to them, but it was the point that I tried.  I like being in the mix of things.  How uncomfortable is it for everyone to be in on a conversation that you do not understand?

In any relationship, success is measured by the amount of communication between the individuals involved.

Bundy

[william3rd]

You can impress them even more if you have taken the time to learn a little about their local culture. . . . proper greetings, proper social skills, even superstitions. The woman and her family will be gratified that you took the time to learn about THEM.

The underlying feelings of the arrogant Ugly American are reduced dramatically. That discussion going on in many foreign countries about American sex tourists and losers travelling abroad to find new victims goes by the boards when the family is able to say that they have a fine man who tries to speak their language, knows the local culture, and respects them as people.

[sean126]

LOL....Bundy beat me to the punch,

I agree that with all the agencies with translated letters and personal translators by your side while your in Colombia...it's very easy to get one without knowing any spanish.  To keep one or to find out if she's the one....you are going to have to know something or she is.  Talking on the telephone or talking in private in person is essential to this.  Like Bundy...I wasn't completely non-verbal.  I did know some, but just the very basics.  I barely knew enough to talk to my novias on the telephone every night and we kept it simple.  I don't know if I'm lucky or just extremely observant, but I could tell my first one was playing me.  

As I mentioned before....I didn't like the fact that she wouldn't look waiters or doormen (or any common workers for that matter) in the eye when they would talk to her or she them.  I could feel that she had this stuck up thing going on.  Also, she's a lawyer and she told me she wanted to go to Bogota to live with friends of hers so she could get more work.  Well, before she left for Bogota she needed a cell phone.  I gladly bought one....I mean we was dating seriously after all.  She said it was "our" cell phone.   My first "hmmmmm" moment was when I would call her.  If she was by herself it was "Oh bebito, te amo muchooooo!!!"  When I could hear people in the background it was..."Hola, Como estas?"  Yeah, I'm stupid enough not to notice  .

While she was there in her friends house in Bogota I called her one night....I heard some maniac yelling in the background.  Turns out...her friends tried to set her up with a guy (which I told her before hand that they would) and he was mad because she kept turning him down.  To the average joe...it might stop there, but I asked her if she had told him "no" before when he asked her out and she said yes.  Did he get mad before also?, "no", she said.  My little wheels started turning.  "Hmmmm." He wasn't mad before, but he's mad now.  What gives?  It was within a few weeks of us meeting in Barranquilla for a 10 day trip.  I figured she was kinda-sorta seeing him and then told him she was meeting me shortly for 10 days.    Anyway, when  I met her at the airport with my translator/friend...we was in the backseat of the taxi.  I seen "our" cell phone sitting on top of her purse.  I went to pick it up and look at it and I thought she was going to have a fit.  Another "hmmmmmm" moment.  I told my friend to tell her that she's not very smart.  To me, i can't tell if some spanish names are for a man or woman anyway.  So I wouldn't be able to tell how many men's names she had anyway.  She just smiled and let me have the cell phone.  I knew for sure then...that she was busted.  The best part is....when we all got to the hotel room (my friend went to our room with us)  I was really serious and while pointing at my girlfriend  I told my friend/traslator...."tell her that she either turns her cell phone off or  she tells the men that calls her that she's with her boyfriend in Barranquilla and she will call them back when she gets back to Bogota."   Wow....it was a classic "deer caught in the headlights look", you could have heard a pin drop.  LOL.  Instead of denying anything, she literally didn't say a word.  She just turned off her cell phone.  I told my friend..."she thinks I'm a complete idiot".  My friend agreed.  2 days later I broke it off.  The last day of my trip...about 9 days later, I met my wife.

My point to all that was....you can possibly get by on not being able to communicate fluently, but at some point soon after you meet...you need to know something.  Alot of my "hmmmmm" moments that I didn't discuss here was time spent on the phone with her.  To a lesser superhero without any superhuman powers...she quite possibly would have played him long before he realized it.

Yes, sending her to English classes is a huge help and a necessity on her part, I believe (if she plans on living in the U.S.) but your looking at a time gap....on one end of the gap you have....meeting her and deciding she's the "one" and you send her to school and on the other end you have....when she learns enough to communicate in English with you.  Up to that point...it's all Spanish.  That could be 2 months or 6 months.  I don't think you need to have a master's degree in Spanish to find someone, but you should be learning the basics before you go and by the time you get around to sending her to school....she should be able to get the jest of what your saying in Spanish.   My spanish sucks...but I recently asked my wife (since she's almost fluent in English now) if she understood me when I was speaking spanish when we was talking all those months on the telephone and she said that she understood what I was trying to say.  You can get by on totally translated letters and translated phone calls, but I wouldn't recommend trying it as a means of standard communication.  When you need to get specific about something....ie. visa stuff, ect... you can do it, but not as a general means of day to day talking.  The failure rate or scam factor is too high of a possiblity for that I think.

Cliff notes for Papi...."yes and no"  

[papi]

Cliff notes for Papi...."yes and no"

i got to the third paragraph then you lost me...about the point of your first cell phone scammer. did she ask for a camera too?  i am worried about my trip and have a lot on my mind today. send me the abbreviation please

[sean126]

I forgot to mention that this was my second trip down to see her.  We had been dating for about 3 months before all this happened.

Papi,
Nope, not a phone scammer.  She was my girlfriend who was moving to another city to find work.  We had been talking about starting the visa....so a $50 dollar phone that she needed wasn't out of line, I didn't think.   I believe I truly was the first choice....but she wanted some "standby's" just in case and I wasn't going for that.  I was getting too many bad vibes in such a short period of time, so I ended it in my usual blunt (but non cursing) manner. 

[neil-uk]

Some very interesting reading on this subject, i can see what Papi's been getting at now,,, Use a good agency with lots of back up, wing it until you find a girl you (Think) you really like, then go home and hammer the Spanish lessions.

That was sorta my plan before Peru,,,,emmmm?? But i can see this is how you guys went around it, and found success.



neil

[papi]

Neil, you have two options:

1. listen to the guys who tell you to sit on the sidelines and learn spanish

2. get on the plane and try again. take some lessons if you can and/or find a chica and send her to english classes. Again, I would recommend a better agency or tour operator in colombia, meet the girl of your dreams and send her to school.

the choice is yours man...it is not a simple road. you know that from the FSU

[Kiltboy1]

Neil

As i said in the trip section, you only had one trip and so it was not great, but it is 75% better then most guys do because most only write, but never actually go, so give yourself some credit. i have a good friend married to a chica from the PI. She is a great girl, but he met her way in the south and not from the main island. He strongly advises to stay away from manila chicas. It has taken me many trips to find the right woman for me, but i found her and did not give up and this time i got it right and she is the most incredibley beautiful woman i can imagine , but i went through a lot of crappy women in the process to get to her. I mean, i dated nothing but hot women, but what shallow biaches they were, yuk. Now my wife is just such a beautiful person inside and outside, but i would not have been able to date her without spanish, just no way around it. I say, get some mroe spanish and go to Baq and get your feet wet there.

KB

[soltero]

Neil, you have two options:

1. listen to the guys who tell you to sit on the sidelines and learn spanish

2. get on the plane and try again. take some lessons if you can and/or find a chica and send her to english classes. Again, I would recommend a better agency or tour operator in colombia, meet the girl of your dreams and send her to school.

the choice is yours man...it is not a simple road. you know that from the FSU

No one is saying to sit on the sidelines. Guys can go and flail about with less than optimum results and work their way through it or listen to those that have already done that and save themselves some time and money. Of course, every person is different, as well as every situation. You can go and see for yourself. I am sure that if you have any common sense, it will begin to seep in that you woud do better if you learn the language and explore the culture.

1) As you travel down this path, take every opportunity to learn and practice the language. You will see it is not that daunting if you seriously try. I think of languages as new slang, or a different way to say something, not as something completely foreign. It helps to keep it from seeming like an insurmountable task. Many of the words are similar enough that you don't have to work that hard anyway.

2) Do not treat your trips as a live or death mission to "bag one". That is just more flailing about. Go out with women that you meet, and try to enjoy yourself and be enjoyable. Each trip should be about networking and a vacation and less like a hunting trip or safari. If you do not make any ties, then you are starting from ground zero each and every trip and spinning your wheels. Have fun and make friends.

3) You can believe in the "one shot and score" if you want to. It is possible, but highly improbable. Understand it is the extreme exception and not the rule.

4) Use your own common sense, and learn to get out of your own way. If you see something is not working, have the good sense to re-evaluate and correct your course. Do not keep following the same nonsense out of fear of change. If you see for yourself that something you were told is not the case or not working for you, have the good sense to forge your own path. There is no one way to do this, but there are ways to better your chances. Shortcuts rarely are the way to go, but if you want to find that out for yourself and end up spinning your wheels, then by all means, do. You will find your way eventually...

...some sooner than others...

[Parlay Rey]

This is my $0.02. I'm a 'nutjob' so take it for what it's worth.

I never used an agency and I never would. I speak the language. Chances are if you don't speak it you'll get fleeced. Maybe financially, maybe emotionally, probably both. Some agencies coach the girls. This is what they themselves have told me. Translators do not always have your best interest at heart. They're on the clock, too. They can't hold your pinga when it comes down to initimate moments, either.

Pointee-talkee is cute for a minute but Latinas are very emotional. In order for her to stop objectifying you and viewing you as a walking cajero automático you need to make and emotional connection. Once that bond is formed, she'll do what she can not to break it. Then that part of the relationship's on auto-pilot.

There is a myriad of reasons for the gents to speak Spanish to find a wife. The key word is wife (long-term permanent, interpersonal, monogamous relationship). Soltero already cut the argument to ribbons but I thought I'd chime in any way.

I was one of the "one shot, one kill" mentality. I've made less than 5 trips to Colombia, and never stayed in a hotel. Always went to see one girl, and stayed with the family. That's just how serious I was. I eliminated multitudes of women through communication. The sh*t don't fly when the lie doesn't add up in Spanish either. And I've filtered through many layers of garbage because although they're the sweetest Latinas (IMO), Colombianas can come up with some whoppers as intricate as crop circles.

Luck is skill plus opportunity, or something like that. Build up your skillset in every aspect (physical, emotional, mental, financial) and finding your media naranja becomes a helluva lot easier.

The odds are stacked heavily against you if you don't learn the language first. Even the attempt will get you brownie points and humanize you in their eyes. Especially with the family. Remember, you marry the whole family. Hell, she was la consentida del barrio so I married the whole damn neighborhood! LOL

Get her to learn English, absolutely but put yourself in the driver's seat to stop problems before they start by learning Spanish first.

[Chris F]

Soltero wrote:

"Do not treat your trips as a live or death mission to "bag one".

BINGO SOLTERO!!!   Remember Neil....It was my seventh trip to South America before I met my wife!!

I never came home disappointed because every trip was a VACATION!!  I enjoyed myself dating different women, enjoyed the culture, and learned something about the process which always benefited me on my next trip down there..

Therefore no trip was a "failure"....how can going out with so many women on a daily basis be a "failure"

Enjoy the chase Neil and learn something from it until you find the right one.......I know I did!!!!!!