Frustrations on PL

[william3rd]

Personally, I do not see any frustrations with this forum. Sometimes we posters are trying, but that goes more toward the personalities involved. . . . . . . . I did stay around gringos for a while but the surreal adventures of one of their posters kind of spooked me. It all got pulled eventually and one explanation was that somebody was off their meds.

[william3rd]

CONGRATULATE ME!!While not being among the forum godsI think I just reached many star status and that is important due to PL seniority in grade

[flipflop]

Well im glad the amount of traffic here is increasing. This place needs participation to achievce what i think is the purpose of the forum, information. That doesnt mean it couldnt be even more improved, informative and fun. Yes in a more open forum you have to suffer the idiots but the open discussion also works as a catharsis keeping most problems in check. Ive been hangin out in all different kinds of forums for going on 15 years and regardless of the subject the ones with the least moderation thrive while censorship and moderation stifle discussion. I appreciate your responsabilty to run the PL forums in the best way you see fit but dont dismiss my contributions over the years by telling me if I dont like it I can leave. This place (in its old form) was a very valuable guide for me as i went through the process of meeting and marrying my wife. I have alot to offer someone who is searching for a wife overseas, I just dont feel as compelled to come here and share because there doesnt seem to be a big need for the advise I have to offer.

[bundy_138]

I have been on a number of forums and PL is pretty good based on my experiences.  I enjoy reading the posts and other peoples past experiences, but the cheap shots, name calling and changing the subjects of the threads has got to stop. 

For example, I posted a thread on here about a week ago titled "Observations in Cali" about some of the different or strange things that I observed on my first trip to Cali.  About 10 posts later, it turned in to a huge deal about who is a racist and and tons of mudslinging.  People were calling each other names, pointing fingers at who is a racist, etc.  Just pissed me off that I try and do my part to make PL a cool place to share and gather information and a bunch of a-holes have to wreck it for everyone. 

I think Sean126 is doing a pretty good job.  I find him funny and he has alot of useful information to share.  Others on here are, as one old schooler calls em', wackjobs.......but I just ignore them and keep reading.  You cannot make everyone happy and I think thats what keeps things interesting.  BUT, the name calling and cheap shots have to stop.

I would imagine the purpose of this forum is to lure new people here to share and obtain new, helpful information on, for lack of a better term, mail order brides.  I think I finally found mine and I owe alot of it to PL. 

Call me crazy.....but under all the cheap shots, name callers, and wackjobs.....I like it here.

Bundy 

 

[catz]

First: Bundy you're crazy. There, glad that's done now.

flipflop,

 You are married to a woman from another country. Much of your experiences are extremely valuable as a lot of what you, and I, and others have gone through is exactly the same. It does not matter what country she is from. We all deal with cultural differences, language issues, government red tape and BS, travel, homesickness and other adjustments etc. so please do not believe for a minute that you input is not valuable because it surely is!

 To all,

   We will continue to try to improve this site and to make it the best possible place to be to learn about how to be successful in this wild, crazy, and very fullfilling adventure we sometimes call International Relationships.

Catz

[Dan]

Well im glad the amount of traffic here is increasing. This place needs participation to achievce what i think is the purpose of the forum, information. That doesnt mean it couldnt be even more improved, informative and fun. Yes in a more open forum you have to suffer the idiots but the open discussion also works as a catharsis keeping most problems in check. Ive been hangin out in all different kinds of forums for going on 15 years and regardless of the subject the ones with the least moderation thrive while censorship and moderation stifle discussion. I appreciate your responsabilty to run the PL forums in the best way you see fit but dont dismiss my contributions over the years by telling me if I dont like it I can leave. This place (in its old form) was a very valuable guide for me as i went through the process of meeting and marrying my wife. I have alot to offer someone who is searching for a wife overseas, I just dont feel as compelled to come here and share because there doesnt seem to be a big need for the advise I have to offer.

I don't think anyone is intending to "dismiss" anyone else. In fact, if you see something specific you think we should do, please let me/us know.

Each month we get a very large number of visitors - lurking on the edges to decide if the site offers them something to warrant them making the time to register and then participate. The 'key' is to draw them in - and we draw our fair share. To draw more, P-L needs to be an even MORE inviting venue.

P-L offers an unusual 'mix' of the "open forum" style you reference - and the more staid, moderated form. I have not seen anyone 'get into it' in the Flameroom, in like forever. Those who really LIKE that kind of thing are invited there anytime they want. There are a FEW limits - but relatively few, and anyone who goes there to post, or respond to a post, needs to fully-understand they are NOT going to see much, if any, moderation of those posts.

As for your advice - I would guess there are plenty of guys who would benefit from it. I hope you stick around to share it.

- Dan

[Jeff S]

I don't see the moderation of the board as much different than the old days. I remember plenty of flaming, and I'm sure Patrick remembers lots of hours cleaning things up. I'm not sure I'm following the main theme of this thread, though. Is it that the board is over-moderated, not allowing enough differing opinions, or that it's under moderated, allowing too much ranting and raving? I post on a few other boards and find this one about in the middle.

If indeed we are getting more and more page views (lurkers) I'd sure like to know how to convert them to participants. I remember back three or four years ago, there was new blood coming in every week, and we had dozens of regulars, at least on the Asian board. Most of the regulars have been married for a while now so I can see them wandering off and getting busy with their lives, but where are the newbys? Do we chase them off? How, and why?

Personally I think the board benefits from differing opinions, because it stimulates both the thinking of the readers and their desire to contribute. I do think out and out attacks of people, their appearance, personality and such, do just the opposite, though.

I too would welcome suggestions on how to kick the activity up a notch.

- Jeff

[daytrader]

This thread reads like a comedy script....

Is it that the board is over-moderated, not allowing enough differing opinions, or that it's under moderated, allowing too much ranting and raving?

Jeff, you're kidding, right?

.....r-e-a-d....t-h-i-s.....t-h-r-e-a-d.....

As Prime Minister Tony Blair (the best World-class debater in the Free World..we'll miss you Tony) sez during Question Time..."I refer to my answer I gave previously....."

If indeed we are getting more and more page views (lurkers) I'd sure like to know how to convert them to participants.

Jeff, you're kidding right?

why would someone post something when the on-point info that is discussed on this thread (an several earlier threads) is ignored by the Forum Gods? 


 

I can see them wandering off and getting busy with their lives, but where are the newbys? Do we chase them off? How, and why?

Jeff, you're kidding, right?

Ibid..Op Cid....Ibid...Op Cid...

I do think out and out attacks of people, their appearance, personality and such, do just the opposite, though.

Jeff, you're kidding, right?

kindly appoint moderators that don't personally insult those that have legitimate concerns.  Kindly publicly read the riot act to those that engage in such ie, throwing verbal hand grenades and personal insults...which of course ARE reported to the Moderator and nothing is done about it...Op Cid my earlier post.  Do you need dates, times, how many kilobytes in the transmission?


 

I too would welcome suggestions on how to kick the activity up a notch.

Jeff, you're kidding right?

Regardless of the facts staring you in the face, constructive criticism by Rusbo, me, Flipflop and others are ignored 100 percento...When Rusbo defends himself and gives it back to El PP, Rusbo gets moderated...duh...although you have muzzled El Highness several times, kudos for that. 

Since Sean is using God in this thread, I'll refer to Him as well...Lord, please give us a lawyer that posts some intelligent, on-topic info to this thread?  Also, give the Dude spellcheck. (lol) Amen.


...retitle this the Comedy Thread for the Forum Gods....

DayTrader 

[Dan]

DT,

Did it feel good to get that out of your system? Have more to spew? Please do it now - while there is an audience.

- Dan

[doombug]

Dan

Based on your policing and censorship its hard to believe you care one iota about the theme of this site and the topics at hand. Planet love used to be an active vibrant forum full of interesting and informative topics. The people who posted here took care of the moderation through discourse that was needed and effective. Since you took over the place has died a withering death. I see weeks go by in the Asian thread without a post while you sit over here protecting papi. You should think about letting PL be what it is, not what you think it should be.

Please respond to my post. Put it in another thread or what ever you have to do but I would be very interested in your vision of this forum. It seems to me you're guiding this forum to oblibvion.

Sorry if this ruffles the critics' feathers, but I dig this pad. The boundaries are sort of obvious to anyone who cares to mind them; and almost anything is open to debate (especially since there's both an Off-topic and a Flame forum).

Such grumbling as yours is as cylical as the weather. Ask yourself this, though: What topics are you posting about that might lure others to participate? If something interests you, why aren't you initiating threads to discuss it? If something disinterests you, why aren't you "ignoring" the thread or the member that brought it up?

I suspect your gripe lies more with particular members here than with the site itself. (You say as much.) As I see it, membership continues to grow, the site's evolved to include a wide array of new features, and the place has a pretty face (and with the addition of an Image Gallery--pretty faces).

“Why do people in ship mutinies always ask for 'better treatment'? I'd ask for a pinball machine, because with all that rocking back and forth you'd probably be able to get a lot of free games.”
--Jack Handy (American Writer and cast member of Saturday Night Live from 1991-2003. Famous for his Deep Thoughts comedy sketches.)

[doombug]

For instance, using Rudy Guiliani's "broken windows" crime fighting policy as an analogy, which was incredibility successful in NY, moderators would publicly reprimand any and all "grenade throwers".

Take "broken windows" too far, though, and you may very well end up with a place like Singapore. Modern, wealthy, stable--but about as spirited as a dish of cottage cheese.

[sean126]

Giving more consideration to Ray's constructive criticism below, I have moderated the heck out of this post.  Anyone who seen it before I changed it knows I definitely tamed it...... considerably.

After re-reading what I wrote on this particular post I decided to delete it and practice what I preach.  It was un-Christian of me to go into so much detail about someone else to try to make myself look better.  I don't need to do that.  It isn't worth hurting someone's feelings to make myself feel justified.  I will apologize to you, Daytrader, for that portion.  If you didn't get the chance to see what I wrote, I doubt you will know what I'm talking about.

DT,
all I will tell you is....before you shout out "moderation"!!!! Please take into account what you yourself have said to others in the past and how you've worded it.  It's my opinion that you are guilty of taking many personal shots at people and then complain when they give it back to you.   You cannot have it both ways.

I agree with Ray's comment below and apologize to you, Flip Flop, for my blunt comment "no one is pointing a gun to your head." 

I should know better as a Christian than to act like that.  My tongue (or fingers) gets the better of me at times.

Thanks again Ray...for pointing out a big folly of mine.

[Fuzzyone]

 I do agree that there is really not much going on here. On the asian side there use to be so many post it was unreal, I really enjoyed reading them. Here on this side it has become planet papi, I know that I bash him alot but it gets to the point when one guy is reposting the same thing over and over it destroys the board. Dan has reined him in alittle.. ie crying about ketchup all the time, but it hurts the board. I like hearing what daytrader and Bundy have to say about what they are doing in Colombia. That will help the new guys looking for info not the pros and cons of MOB for the fifth time or Calipros rule number 1 for the 100 th time or about not sending money to a girl you just met in S.A. These things have been posted to death get on with the board.

  I even liked hearing what sean had to say why? It was new!!!! NEW not the same old crap posted because someone is bored to death and has nothing to do.

[Ray]

      

I think it's a good thing to have these discussions once in a while.

Forum moderation is a tricky thing. You are never going to please everyone and it is almost impossible to be entirely fair to everyone at all times. But I think moderators should at least try to be a step above the rest when it comes to personal behavior. Sure they are allowed to blow their top along with the rest of us once in a while, but I believe they should be expected to set an example and not get involved in the real mud slinging, while attempting to be fair and balanced. That's why I have turned down offers to moderate in the past because I simply didn't want to have to try to play it straight all the time.

I appreciate the job the moderators are doing here and I can also sympathize with flipflop and some others who miss some of the action of the good old days. An unmoderated forum can be fun but there will be a limited number of members who are willing to stick around through the flame wars and such. Though there have been some major changes, I think this forum is still a good place to hang out.

Yes, this forum is about sharing experiences and helping others, but I think it should also be fun. If you attempt to take all the fun out of it by severely restricting discussions to the topic at hand or by deleting posts that may be slightly offensive to some, the forum will surely die a quick death simply because it will become a very boring place.

A little well-placed sarcasm or a snide remark here and there never hurt anyone and sometimes this stuff is needed to keep others in line. Personally, I find it kind of wimpy to go crying to the moderators every time someone says something that you don' like, especially when you yourself have thrown your share of bombs here.

I think criticism is O.K. if it is constructive. Also, sometimes somebody will say something so outrageous that a sarcastic reply is definitely called for. Take the new guy who shows up and insults everyone right off the bat. Yeah, you can ignore the trolls for so long, but sooner or later you need to bitch slap them in public, just to keep them in their proper place.

I always try to respect everyone's opinion whether I agree with them or not, but I believe that there are certain behaviors that require a strong response. If you insult another member's wife or girlfriend, you should be bitch slapped hard. If you make slanderous, unsubstantiated remarks about another person on a public forum, you should be told politely to STFU.

If you proclaim yourself to be an expert or that you are smarter or better than everyone else, I think you deserve a little lesson in humility. If you jump all over another member for his poor spelling or grammar, you better be absolutely perfect yourself and NEVER make a spelling or grammar error or you deserve a little public humiliation IMHO.

And PLEASE don't complain about the off-topic stuff while you are getting valuable FREE information from experienced members and even FREE advice from experienced, practicing immigration attorneys (William, Gary) who would be charging you $350/hr if you were asking the same questions in their office.

If you're a recent member and you come on strong by criticizing long-time members and the way things work around here, you should expect to be bitch slapped for your arrogance and lack of respect for the forum "culture" as it is. If you are respectful and logical in your criticism and suggest positive changes that you would like to see, you'll get no beef from me. But try to force your ideas down our throats and stand by for a little friendly sarcasm in response.

When someone is openly attacked on the forum, I think should have a choice of reporting it to the moderators or responding directly himself. Sure, running to the moderators may be the best option for the public good sometimes, but nobody should be made to take personal attacks without the right to respond within reason.

I certainly don't reserve exclusive rights to respond to something I don't like and I urge others to make your feelings known, all within reasonable limits of course. I think the moderators will allow a certain amount of negative criticism and healthy sarcasm as long as it is appropriate and in good fun. I think if you do find the need to engage in a little flame-throwing now and then, you should at least be intelligent and entertainig if possible.  

I don't pretend to know better than the moderators and I will resect their authority, but I also think it's good to complain once in a while if you don't like the way something is being done here. I think flipflop was respectful and restrained in his criticism and I appreciate Dan's thoughtful response. But I do think that Sean was out of line with his petty insult "no one is pointing a gun to your head to stay here" and the "Jerry Springer" remark. Not that Sean's comments were all that terrible on their face, but I think he needs to show just a wee bit more diplomacy now that he is an official moderator and is "supposed" to be fair and balanced. But I am willing to let Sean slide this time since he is new at the game and still learning...    

Anyway, good discussion and I think this forum is still the best or I wouldn't be here.



Ray

[sean126]

Ray,

Your 100% correct that diplomacy is definitely not one of my strong suits...along with sugar coating things.  I'm a blunt and crystal clear type of loud mouth.  The other moderators responses were more tactful than mine are.  I will work on that.  It's hard to separate the moderator from the poster at times.  I forget that when people read my posts that they see "moderator" by my name 100% of the time.  I forget because in my mind...I'm not posting as a moderator 100% of the time.  Thanks for keeping me on my toes.  It was definitely welcomed.   

[Ray]

Sean, you're doing fine as a moderator.

With a little more experience, I'm sure you'll learn how to cut someone off at the knees while being a perfect diplomat. I think Patrick and Hoda are good examples to follow... 

[sean126]

After taken into account a constructive criticism, I deleted my "monster post" aimed at someone and replaced it with a more humble response.

[papi]

I just want to say that nobody is getting preferential treatment, especially after the box of Cohibas I sent Dan last month from panama got held up in customs. Sorry about that Dan   

[catz]

Ray,

 That was an excellent, well thought out, and very on target post! Must be why we pay you extra to hang around here...

Sean,
 
 I cannot even begin to tell you how many posts I write, re-write, re-write again, etc. to try to take the me out of them. It is way too easy to respond emotionally. Especially if it is something that you care about. There is also no way to completely take the person out of the post, you're doing a fine job and you'll get better at it the more you do it. Maybe we need a "smilie" for you that says Mod Off Duty so you can let it fly.

Papi,

 We've got a standing order at the Post Office to "Return to Sender" all gifts that are NOT packages of small unmarked US Currency in amounts exceeding $10,000.00.

Catz

[Jeff S]

I guess I must not follow the subtlities of the board well enough to really understand what all the to-do is about, other than "how come you told me to tone it down and not him?" I also must have somehow missed all of these excellent suggestions on how to improve the board, other than the "shut that other guy up and let me say anything I want" requests.

I certainly don't take posts made my anonomous someones out in cyberspace personally, either. There have been too many self proclaimed experts in all sorts of fields arrive here and eventually turn out to be total and complete frauds, who just come to post out of boredom, I guess. It's not going to matter one iota to my lifestyle, business, marriage, or self esteem if an anomomous someone calls me names, especially not if his board name is JoeStudleyThePussyMagnet, or HisRoyalHighnessPrinceIrving. I evaluate posters on the quality of their responses when someone asks a real question. The banter is just that, banter.

What Sean said is right, we moderators are posters, too, and have our experiences, predjuices, preferences, and opinions to contribute. I don't follow the Latin board that closely so wouldn't presume ever moderate it, either. Those on the Asian boards play together a lot nicer.

Jeff

[rpcv]

     

I always try to respect everyone's opinion whether I agree with them or not, but I believe that there are certain behaviors that require a strong response. If you insult another member's wife or girlfriend, you should be bitch slapped hard. If you make slanderous, unsubstantiated remarks about another person on a public forum, you should be told politely to STFU.

I agree. As it has been mentioned, a little healthy debate is good for this board and I greatly appreciate hearing all the ideas and suggestions offered by folks here; especially from those folks who have made the journey from start to finish.

But occasionally though I've seen where an individual is not willing to acknowledge another person's point of view and instead state theirs is the only correct one. Thus a further debate with them in the so-called "flame room" would be futile.

A   

[bundy_138]

How about a pose-off?  If their is a heated debate, make the two opponents post pictures of themselves with no shirts on and let the members of the forum vote!   jajajajajaja   

Now thats quality entertainment!

Bundy

[william3rd]

For instance, using Rudy Guiliani's (GIULIANI) "broken windows" crime fighting policy . . . .   Any other way of doing it wreaks (REEKS) of political correctness and favoritism. . . .   

OK- here is my attempt at spell check. . . .  I don't want to wreak too much havoc here.

Meanwhile, turning to the Russell 220, I really liked Kurt in The Thing and the Snake Plyskin movies but Captain Ron was hysterical too.

[catz]

I don't know William. I'm probably going to have to just Ban you for all that Reeking you've done in the past. Not to mention all that whining and crying over the color problem. I can only put up with so much you know...

[daytrader]

...go back to your room William3rd....you're not ready for the big leagues....

wreak       (rÄ“k)  Pronunciation Key
tr.v.   wreaked, wreak·ing, wreaks

   1. To inflict (vengeance or punishment) upon a person.
   2. To express or gratify (anger, malevolence, or resentment); vent.
   3. To bring about; cause: wreak havoc.
   4. Archaic To take vengeance for; avenge.

--- American Heritage Dictionary

DayTrader