Frustrations on PL

[flipflop]

Dan

Based on your policing and censorship its hard to believe you care one iota about the theme of this site and the topics at hand. Planet love used to be an active vibrant forum full of interesting and informative topics. The people who posted here took care of the moderation through discourse that was needed and effective. Since you took over the place has died a withering death. I see weeks go by in the Asian thread without a post while you sit over here protecting papi. You should think about letting PL be what it is, not what you think it should be.

Please respond to my post. Put it in another thread or what ever you have to do but I would be very interested in your vision of this forum. It seems to me you're guiding this forum to oblibvion.

[daytrader]

I agree FF...here's a Voter Appreciation for you. Others that agree can do so as well...

DayTrader

[sean126]

Flipflop and others of the same "jerry springer" mindset,

As Dan as said before...no one is pointing a gun to your head to stay here.  I've read the other so-called "active and vibrant" forum and it's basically an insult fest.  I for one, would hate to see this forum turn into that.  However, what goes on with other forums is no concern of mine.  Before I was a moderator and now that I am one...my opinion of Dan and Catz is they allow enough "vibrant" and entertaining banter without letting it get out of hand.  That's what I try to do to.  Usually when people have nothing useful to post they start baiting and attacking out of boredom.

As far as Papi...I can't speak for Dan or Catz, but I like Papi.  I think he's hilarious and at the same time I believe we all play fair with moderating.  Don't forget the human equation also...we all have bad days in our personal lives that may or may not spill over to Planet Love.   Personally, I don't think Papi gets away with anymore than the next guy or is protected any more or less.  Perhaps your dislike of him has colored your perception.

[catz]

Some thoughts for you to consider:

 Mostly this board IS self-moderating.

 It is not difficult to keep your posts civil and without cheap shots and/or digs at other members.
   - Debate the message NOT the messenger

 Many, if not most, of the moderation/requests for posters to keep it civil happen behind the scenes.

 When folks show a specific dislike of another member, additional steps may need to be taken. Mostly that is a simple message in a thread asking someone to ease up on the words that are directed at a specific person.

 If you have specific ideas about how to improve Planet-Love then please let us know! We are truly interested in knowing what you have to say. I can't say that we would be able to make the changes but if the idea has merit in your mind then it may also have merit for other members as well.

Thank you,
 Catz

[william3rd]

Nice posts, sean and catz. Worth a rec or two, fer shure. Are we going to be showing our support by reccing?

Principles and not personalities. . . . .

You are right about the boredom remark. . . . . some have just too much time on their hands

A lot of stupid digs are not censored and shouldnt be. Reflects more on the poster rather than the target. . . .Only when the flames really start coming out do the moderation team swing into action. . .

 

[daytrader]

- Debate the message NOT the messenger

Unevenly enforced to say the least..past uneven enforcement is clearly political in nature IMO, past moderators' actions have clearly choosen sides by their lack of enforcement against personal attacks.  There are clearly grenade throwers and those that simply defend themselves, past moderators largely refuse to distinguish between the two. 

I will say, however, that this forum is head and shoulders better than most I have visited, but substantial tweaking has been needed for some time. 

The comment that started this thread was not a personal attack but an intelligent comment that did not use anything out of line of having a civil discussion.  Heaven forbid someone disagree with the judgement of a poster that is routinely discredited almost on a daily basis by numerous (that means more than one or two) regular posters. 

Flipflop and others of the same "jerry springer" mindset,

Regarding Sean's quote above: Comparing a legitimate complaint/comment about a moderator's action draws a comparison to one of the most outrageous tv shows in American Culture.  Jerry Springer is a host of regular physical assaults between guests, Sean is saying Flipflop and others are physically assaulting those that disagree.   Yet another perfect example of moderators choosing sides, using verbal firebombs if someone "dares to disagree" with the  Moderator Correct view of reality.  Sean, your comment is out of bounds and anything you write should be edited and checked by someone with better judgment for the next 7 calendar days, in my opinion. 

If you have specific ideas about how to improve Planet-Love then please let us know! We are truly interested in knowing what you have to say. I can't say that we would be able to make the changes but if the idea has merit in your mind then it may also have merit for other members as well.

In the recent past these have been routinely ignored, although things have gotten better for the most part sometime afterwards - but the offenders were NOT publicly reprimanded for their outrageous attacks.    This stuff is archived and easily found! 

Sean sez : As Dan as said before...no one is pointing a gun to your head to stay here.

I think that's a lame comment Sean...if one disagrees we are told to take our bat and ball and leave....really?!  Just proves that at least one moderator subscribes to there being only one point of view allowed, website management is obviously perfect above reproach. 

.....yawn......


DayTrader

[william3rd]

cool red ink. . . .

How can I do that? Hmmmm. . .

[catz]

Daytrader,

Unevenly enforced to say the least..past uneven enforcement is clearly political in nature IMO, past moderators' actions have clearly choosen sides by their lack of enforcement against personal attacks.  There are clearly grenade throwers and those that simply defend themselves, past moderators largely refuse to distinguish between the two. 

 Like I said, most of this goes on behind the scenes. Just because you do not see someone being taken to task over a post or style of posting does not mean that it does not happen.

I will say, however, that this forum is head and shoulders better than most I have visited, but substantial tweaking has been needed for some time.

 Thank you. We do try and if you have any ideas please send them on. 

The comment that started this thread was not a personal attack but an intelligent comment that did not use anything out of line of having a civil discussion.  Heaven forbid someone disagree with the judgement of a poster that is routinely discredited almost on a daily basis by numerous (that means more than one or two) regular posters.

 There are times when a pre-emptive stike is warranted with members who have a history of getting into verbal mud slinging matches.

Regarding Sean's quote above: Comparing a legitimate complaint/comment about a moderator's action draws a comparison to one of the most outrageous tv shows in American Culture.  Jerry Springer is a host of regular physical assaults between guests, Sean is saying Flipflop and others are physically assaulting those that disagree.   Yet another perfect example of moderators choosing sides, using verbal firebombs if someone "dares to disagree" with the  Moderator Correct view of reality.  Sean, your comment is out of bounds and anything you write should be edited and checked by someone with better judgment for the next 7 calendar days, in my opinion. 

 Sean is a big boy so I'll let him respond to you if he wants to.

In the recent past these have been routinely ignored, although things have gotten better for the most part sometime afterwards - but the offenders were NOT publicly reprimanded for their outrageous attacks.    This stuff is archived and easily found!

 If we can take care of it behind the scenes why is there a need to have it become public? I see this as more of a self-gratification thing on your part for wanting this.

I think that's a lame comment Sean...if one disagrees we are told to take our bat and ball and leave....really?!  Just proves that at least one moderator subscribes to there being only one point of view allowed, website management is obviously perfect above reproach.

 Are you not disagreeing now? Don't you think that it gets very tiresome to hear about "how great it used to be in the old days" type of posts. If it was so great then why did the original owner of this site want to get rid of it? Perhaps he was tired of dealing with this type of post? Just some food for thought here.

.....yawn......

 I totally agree. Spending hours upon hours cleaning up the sandbox does get tiresome. Especially when the children could care less how the treat the sandbox or how much they let their dog crap in it. Yes, it does get old and boring.

 It is simply one of the jobs that needs to be done to keep this board clean and to help it to grow and flourish like we know it can. The most valuable part of this, and any, board is the membership. You all can make it or break it without any help from us. It is totally up to you all as to what you want and what you get from this particular sandbox.

Catz

[catz]

cool red ink. . . .

How can I do that? Hmmmm. . .

William,

 You should have a variety of options above where you create a post. Select the text and select an option.

Catz

P.S. If that doesn't work then try marking the color you want on your screen. If nothing else it will look cool for a little while...

[daytrader]

Catz,

Your reply is largely unresponsive to my specific points...and proves my original post in spades.  There are clearly "black" and "white" issues that the braintrust of this forum don't see or refuse to see. 

Passing the buck and not making judgments on **clear** points I've made is breathtaking. 

For instance, using Rudy Guiliani's "broken windows" crime fighting policy as an analogy, which was incredibility successful in NY, moderators would publicly reprimand any and all "grenade throwers".  Any other way of doing it wreaks of political correctness and favoritism, which is clearly and easily proven by the preponderance of posts.   

If you doubt my point of view, an online  chat that others can read the archives of is my suggestion. 

DayTrader

[william3rd]

meanwhile, back at the ranch. . . .

[william3rd]

Hey catz, I tried changing color but it wont work.. . . THis is very frustrating to me

I know that this is really really off topic but I want to see color

[william3rd]

never mindI think I got it under control

[sean126]

DT,

Wow, you never EVER cease to amaze me.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, which is something you rarely ever appear to do for others.  Notice I said "appear".  

The Jerry Springer mindset that I was referring to was people who like to WATCH....see that?  I said, "WATCH" that type of verbal assult for no apparent reason other than boredom.  
Even though I don't daytrade and try to solicit my computer program on here in a round-about-way by bragging....I know that I AM intelligent enough to know that Flip Flop, from what I remember, is not one to assult anyone or take things to the extreme.  I don't know if it was because of the moderating before I seen the "behind the scenes action" or if it was his self control.  My point is...Some people enjoy watching a good verbal (or physical) fight and others, who are more pathetic, enjoy watching people gang up on another.

Before you go off in another direction again, let me say...No, I am not calling Flip Flop pathetic.

To re-state what Catz already said....there are things going on behind the scenes that the regular posters don't know about, so keep that in mind before you spout ridiculous comments about things you know very little about.

In the tradition of Dan, Catz and Jeff...believe it or not, I too welcome ideas to make the forum better...but for ALL the poster, not for just a few who dislike one individual.   I don't see how anyone, including you, can say that's not fair.

Daytrader, you are one to go absolutely BALLISTIC if someone disagrees with you...just like now.  Before you publically annouce in favor of a public reprimand by the moderators I would seriously look at what YOU write and HOW you write it.  
*******In case you forgot....I was the ONLY one who stuck up for you when someone dedicated a thread to making you look ridiculous, but hey...I didn't do it for a "thank you" from you, I am just that type of person naturally.  I am sure you "conviently" don't know what I'm talking about.  If your curious, look through the archives because as you said..."it's easily found". ***** 

I'm fair...I even moderated the beegeezes out of this response.  

In a brotherly, "Christian" fashion let me say....dude, you SERIOUSLY need to stop letting your daytrading success go to your head.  Intelligence in finance definitely doesn't equal intelligence in anything else. Re-read some of your posts...you will see that your among the ones who go LOCO when someone disagrees with you, alot more than these people your talking about who...as you say, get upset when someone disagrees with them

****This is NOT a public reprimand**** and I could careless if you agree with me or not.  I will keep on being fair to EVERYONE as a group.   I originally was responding to Flip Flop's desire for a more "vibriant" forum and to his suggestion to let this forum be what it is and not what Dan thinks it should be.  I took his post to mean that he (Flip Flop) would like the moderators to allow a broader set of boundries as to how far someone can insult another, how much someone can be insulted, or how long it should go on and I responded according to that.  

 
Any one with common sense could see that things on here could get quickly out of hand and totally off subject in a very short period of time.   As a poster, I like the balance of not boring, but not an insult fest either.   I mean...who in their right mind wants to be mad all the time or insulted all the time?  

As a final point....I don't know about the other moderators but, of course you have to consider the SOURCE of the suggestion or idea and it's (sometimes not so obvious) reason.  

[catz]

William,

 I see color in your post. You sure you don't have a black and white monitor? 

Daytrader,

 Would it help if I said:

 You are right, you have always been right, you will always be right and I'm so sorry that I do not follow all of your rightness all the time?

 Just thought I'd ask.

 To the point: We run this board the best way that we see fit to. I'm sorry that it does not live up to your expectations. Write down all of the things that you think would make it a better board. Remember this is not New York City. Make your suggestions about the board itself and how it is run. Not about a specific post or poster. Send them to us or start a thread about it. If we see that it has merit and is something we can do then we will do the best we can to add it to the board.

Catz

[Patrick]

Are you not disagreeing now? Don't you think that it gets very tiresome to hear about "how great it used to be in the old days" type of posts. If it was so great then why did the original owner of this site want to get rid of it? Perhaps he was tired of dealing with this type of post? Just some food for thought here.

Bingo!  I used to call running these forums like herding cats.  There's always someone bitching and you can't please everyone all the time.

I think Dan, Catz, and Sean are doing a great job of keeping this forum on-track and making it a valuable resource for men looking for information on finding foreign wives.  Without their moderation, the place would quickly turn into a flame-fest with little to no actual useful information being shared.

[Dan]

Dan

Based on your policing and censorship its hard to believe you care one iota about the theme of this site and the topics at hand. Planet love used to be an active vibrant forum full of interesting and informative topics. The people who posted here took care of the moderation through discourse that was needed and effective. Since you took over the place has died a withering death. I see weeks go by in the Asian thread without a post while you sit over here protecting papi. You should think about letting PL be what it is, not what you think it should be.

Please respond to my post. Put it in another thread or what ever you have to do but I would be very interested in your vision of this forum. It seems to me you're guiding this forum to oblibvion.

Flipflop,

Thanks for your comments. Planet-Love has always been a 'Community' of mostly folks with a common interest - and it remains so today. To be a thriving community, we need to adjust to the ebb and flow of the people who make up this site. Your post, while critical, really suggests your concern for the site - and for that, I am quite grateful.

Patrick, Catz, and Sean have each addressed your concerns - and I will add a couple of points.

You indicated a concern that the board is declining. The objective facts are that we are seeing record numbers of traffic each and every month for the past 6 months. That is, each month turns out a larger number of visitors and pageviews than the month prior. We are on-track for March to again be a record month for P-L. Some of this is cyclic, and there will be natural peaks and valleys - but it is undeniable that we are seeing significant growth at P-L in traffic statistics, and in terms of new members.

To attract new members, P-L must do a couple of things REALLY well. We must provide an inviting platform so that people quickly feel comfortable. We also must provide an environment where people feel comfortable sharing their desires and experiences. And we must have experienced members who are willing to share of themselves to help others along - just as someone(s) helped them along - probably from P-L - at one time.

To retain existing members, we need to have a place where there is a sense of comraderie and a place where people can share their 'war stories.' An environment where guys/gals feel they can 'give back' to the newbies and where their input is sincerely appreciated.

What does NOT work in ANY of those scenarios is the hostility and gamesmanship often on display at other venues. While I am the first to admit it used to be 'fun' to pick off some of the newbies and their wrong-headed thinking back when I was a regular at P-L's Russian board - the fact is, when that becomes the predominant feature of the site - the site will die. It is inevitable. There is nothing to attract the newbies into the site - and the old-timers eventually grow weary of the constant in-fighting and cannibalism.

There is *nobody* who enjoys protected status here at P-L - with the exception of the Moderators who clean up after you guys. No-one else is given preferential treatment - and if you believe otherwise, it may well be simply that you do not see what is done behind the scenes. "Why do it behind the scenes?" you may ask - and the reason is simple - none of us here is interested in humiliating or disgracing anyone. Some of you guys, however, are hell-bent on doing your best to disgrace others. You do it in the guise of helping newbies who do not know any better - but that is merely a ruse for you (not addressing YOU personally FF) to abuse others and give the appearance of altruism. That is not lost on us - and it will not be tolerated. The few who seem to be overly-obsessed with others need to come to grips with the fact that their games are NOT allowed here - go elsewhere to play that garbage - or better, just STOP.

If anyone has legitimate suggestions for improvement - I don't think you will find a more receptive audience anywhere. Bring it on. We are quite sincere about wanting to maintain Planet-Love as the PREMIER site for anyone seeking a foreign bride. It has been so for nearly a decade - and will be so for many more.

- Dan

[william3rd]

The moderators are really patient here and should be commended for their restraint. . . . .http://[color=pink]thanks for the color hints, guys[/color]

[william3rd]

BTW- I dont think I read about a broken windows policy. The only policy I know about is "if it aint broke, ya dont fix it." Which is how I see these forums.
And then there is the broken roof policy-if its raining, you cant fix it and if it is sunny it dont need fixin. . . . .

[daytrader]

(so, will this be edited, truncated?  ...we will see..)

Sean...using the word "BALLISTIC" in caps is another verbal firebomb...your word choice, shouting and unrepentant comparison of all those that disagree with the planet-love Forum Gods (that was the cause of this new thread) and comparing them to a Jerry Springer show is beyond me.     

Sean, are you seriously saying that ***only your opinion*** of what your comparison of some posters to Jerry Springer is true?  No OTHER opinion can be in existence?  Wow!  I humbly bow at your feet!

I'll ignore the personal attacks, invocation of God, etc, of your last post, but readers can file them under the same category of verbal firebombs/personal attacks.  Since a moderator can engage in personal attacks against other posters on this thread, it is all out in public now for the the World to see. 

Those moderators that  do  **not** step in to comment regarding the above  verbal firebombs are equally yoked IMO. 

If anyone has legitimate suggestions for improvement

hint:  no verbal firebombs by moderators...duh

BROKEN WINDOWS
For those that are unfamiliar with this analogy;  if petty damages and crimes are not prosecuted in a major city, people lose hope in the justice system, this hopelessness by the law abiding and lack of enforcement encourages petty  lawbreakers to commit more serious crimes.  Giuliani aggressively prosecuted the minor offenses that occurred in the urban areas and it directly causes serious crimes to decrease.  Moderators need to crack down specifically on the verbal bomb throwers and NOT use generalized comments.  The moderation needs to be specifically targeted to those that threw the grenade, not in any way towards to person firing a M-16 in self defense.   

Notice my comments (in total) are not all negative, there is a lot that is positive here and head & shoulders above other sites, [plus the Google template for the forum is excellent) but there is a specific agenda that is being advanced or tolerated by moderator(s) that I believe is counter to fair play sometimes. 

This will be my final rebuttal on this thread. 



DayTrader

[catz]

Daytrader,

 Anytime you see what you think is a grenade/firebomb etc. please feel free to use the Report to Moderator link. We encourage this of all members. I can read a post one way, Dan another way, Sean another way, and so on. Rather than be upset about who, how, or what we moderate become proactive in pointing out those items which you feel are offensive and tell us why.

 You (that's the big you as in All of You) here are the best source of information to help us with the moderation (or not) of the board.

Catz

[daytrader]

I've done that one or two months ago and they all were unanswered

DayTrader

[catz]

We generally do not respond to the one who reports the post unless we need clarification but instead take it up directly with the original poster. We do keep an eye out for them and we do act on them when needed.

Catz

[daytrader]

We generally do not respond to the one who reports the post unless we need clarification but instead take it up directly with the original poster. We do keep an eye out for them and we do act on them when needed.

Catz

Obviously this procedure is not working IMO..the guilty continue to go unpunished and their offenses are unrebutted by anyone in authority...free fire zone, anyone?. You now have specific feedback from someone that has had several votes of appreciation since I've been here - last month I was tied with others as a runner up* - and most of my threads have some of the highest numbers of any threads in the past 4 months.  If I was the dufus Sean and some others think I am, there would not be the votes of appreciation I've received... n'est pas?

Umm...I need to respond to Sean's statement that I am hawking my software on prior posts....the answer is no, I don't need no stinkin' clients... it's just fun to tweak any CBOT or CME people that said to me that it couldn't be done.  Also, I did call the first bottom of the recent market correction...I did that as a FYI in case anyone was getting jittery.  No Charge and will be glad to do it anytime somebody needs to know, just send a PM..it's free and its fun to exercise the brain in new avenues. 

*PDaddy & Ray, I already hear you, skip the requisite personal invective on this thread por favor.   Save it for next time.   

Sorree this wasn't my last post, but my intent was noble...this stuff needs to be dealt with....then......yawn....ignored by the Forum Gods....

DayTrader

[william3rd]

Are we talking about the Goldie Hawn stuff again? . Catz- you were right and I had to turn on the color for the monitor. Hard to see things in black and white. . . . .