Religion

[Ray]

Sean, dude, I think that bourbon is getting to you... LOL!

Communication is a two-way street and either I can't read or you can't write...or probably both! 

Anyway, I think we better just drop the whole thing... I will let others interpret your words for themslves.

Good night dude... 

Ray 

[el_ruso]

Well, when I began searching for a girl in Colombia, I realized she was not going to be Jewish.  I frankly have never dated a Jewish girl, and all the relationships I have had ended for reasons other than religion (well, except for one, but the girl was a protestant actually).

I understand what you are saying.  My culture technically requires the same thing (well, except for mass  ), but I will not impose judaism neither on her nor on the children.  I have friends from Mexico who have cousins who married Jews in Mexico City and they even had to formally convert and stuff like that.  I don't ask for the girl to do that for me, nor expect it.  If she feels she needs to go to church, I guess she can do it, but I will stay at home and sleep.  I know she was not attending it because she had to work on Sundays among other things.  How is spending quality time with her husband could be less of an excuse  .

I grew up - thank God - without religion imposed on me, practically never attended services, but think of myself as a reasonably moral person nonetheless.  On the majority of social issues my views are VERY conservative.  Morality in my opinion is taught best by example, by the parents and family, rather than religion.

I agree that similar religious beliefs could be an important factor to stability of marriage.  However, there are plenty of catholics who don't get along and end up separating.  And there are plenty of Jews who do as well.

[jm21-2]

I grew up - thank God - without religion imposed on me, practically never attended services, but think of myself as a reasonably moral person nonetheless.  On the majority of social issues my views are VERY conservative.  Morality in my opinion is taught best by example, by the parents and family, rather than religion.

Cheers to that.

There are plenty of kids who go to church and end up a mess. Actually, from my experience working at the DA's a bit, there are some pretty horrible young sexual predators who met victims through church groups. I guess they felt the girls were more sheltered and naive. About 80% of Americans belong to one of the Judaic religions, but I don't think that 80% of Americans are all moral upstanding citizens.

[sean126]

Ray,
I think I figured out where I might have threw you.  For Papi's sake, I'll give the cliff notes.

1.  Met her, fell in love, decided to get a K-1 and get married in America for the sake of letting her come here first to see if she will break down on me and want to go back home.  I didn't think she would, but why take a chance.  That's just me.

2.  Got said visa, and then after having visa in hand....I heard from an extremely reliable source that two Colombians (citizens who live in Colombia) got married in a Catholic Church in Colombia but didn't sign any notary papers....so as far as the Colombian Gov. is concerned, they are not married.  No public or legal records.  Wether this is a fluke, I don't know but I DO know that it's a fact.  I can't say why, since this is a public forum and I don't know who's reading it.

3.  Had an idea, "why not get married in Colombia and just not sign the notary papers like those other people did and wait till we come to America for all that legal stuff so it won't mess up the visa?  No one would know."  My wife checked....no, the priest wouldn't do it and another reason was...I had to take the Catholic Classes.  However, he could bless the rings in a ceremony at a Hall.  Ok, that was better than nothing.  So we had a Big Party as stated in an earlier post.  (I figured.... well, if she DOES start breaking down on me...at least I'm not LEGALLY married or LEGALLY obligated to do anything but send her back, per her wishes.  So, this was still in my comfort/cautious zone.)

4.  Came to America, got married and had Lots of Latin passion, "Papi Style".

I could have done it the way El Ruso may do it...but I did it the way I did it.

Hope this helps, if it don't....I'll take your suggestion and drop it and then I'll pull out the rest of my hair and finish this bottle of Burbon.

[utopiacowboy]

Ruso, they may not be practicing Jews or even realize that they have Jewish blood running through their veins but a lot of Jews ended up in parts of Colombia especially Medellin. My wife reminds me an awful lot of a Jewish girlfriend I used to have.

[daytrader]

In fact you DO have an option. You can always cancel the K-1 and petition her for a CR-1/K-3.

Sean, I think you are looking at this thing all bass-ackwards. You don’t do the wedding to match the visa...you do the correct visa to match your wedding!

That's like...waaaaayyy too logical.....

DayTrader

[Ray]

Sean, you didn't "throw" me and I understand what you did and why. That's all fine and dandy and I wasn't judging you for it.

But you were recommending that others do it like you did and THAT is why I disagreed, for the reasons stated.

For the benefit of anyone else out there reading this, a fiancée visa is for someone intending to marry in the States. Attempting to have a wedding overseas, recorded or not, and also using the fiancée visa, is bordering on visa fraud and can very possibly get you into a huge mess. There have been many discussions before on "fake" or unrecorded marriages for those wishing to use the fiancée visa route. For those who like that idea, do what you want, but in my opinion it is irresponsible to recommend that course of action for others on a public forum.

Ray

[papi]

May I summarize by again saying that Sean is one together cat. I would also like to add that Ray besides in fact having some funny cartoons on occasion is right to make sure everyone clearly gets the k1/k3. There is not a lot of gray here. Get married in the USA or colombia - the choice is yours but trying to fudge things is risky business with immigration in my opinion. Having a ceremony in colombia after getting married in the USA is probably a safe bet for those wanting to do something in colombia but still go the k1 route. I have amigos that have gone that route without an issue. I feel there are pros and cons to both the k1/k3 and probably would be the start of a good thread. i leave the rest to the experts. Maybe Doom can run some numbers on marriage failures per visa. I never got there cause my visa dodger left me at the alter 

[Looking4Wife]

I'm a selfish person, but it worked for us and her family and before anyone else jumps on the bandwagon....Yes, we BOTH talked about it before hand...  her family got to say good bye and got to see us declare our love and our commitment to each other in public and then celebrated the fact.  I did it BEFORE she left, others may want to do it when she comes back....but either way, if your doing a k-1 visa like I did...it's the same thing, it's not THE wedding (legal marriage).  It's either a "Pre-Wedding" or a "Post Wedding" because your getting married (legally) in America.  I guess to get super technical, you would call it a "renewing of your vows" after you go back to her country.  I was specifically talking about the K-1 guys.  If someone wants to get married in Colombia...by all means, do it...  

Again, I think everyone missed the whole point.....IF your doing a K-1 Visa and are NOT getting married in Colombia then a Pre or Post wedding party is the next best thing...

Let me re-phrase again since that idea didn't go over too well......Don't do a K-1 visa and have a big party for her family and friends...Instead do a K-3 Visa and get married in Colombia and then have a big party for YOUR family and friends (if they can't afford to come or won't come to Colombia for the real wedding).  
How's that people, better??

Sean:

Doesn't sound selfish at all... sounds like you and her agreed on what you both wanted, she's happy, you're happy, her family is happy, all immigration requirements were met therefore USA/Colombian immigration is happy... and, what the heck, I'm happy for you and your beautiful wife as well 

[el_ruso]

"May I summarize by again saying that Sean is one together cat."

Paps,

I believe that pretty much everyone here respects Sean.  He has proven to be consistently objective and thoughtful, which is why he has earned to be a moderator.

However, you are the one who is repeatedly kissing up to moderators.  First it was Dan whom you "liked", which was repeated ad nauseum.  Now it is Sean's turn to be a "one together cat".  Strangely, you have not called him that until he became a moderator. 

[papi]

well, don't worry Ruso - if you get a promotion i won't kiss your ass.

[sean126]

Ray,
 LOL, I wasn't recommending to others to have an illegal wedding or commit borderline fraud or what ever.  Not in the least.  Maybe it was the way I wrote it, I don't know.  I was simply suggesting that for people who are not getting married in Colombia to have a Party before the girl left...or as El Ruso suggested, to have one when she returns.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who had a party, mine just happen to be a little bigger and one where the rings were blessed.  

If I could have had an undocumented wedding (which, as I wrote, was a spur of the moment idea based on what I heard) I would have...just for the simple fact of what El Ruso and I discussed.  
No, I would not recommend or suggest to anyone at anytime to do that.  I smoke and I would not recommend that to anyone either.  I was suggesting as an idea...as my first comment stated, for a Big party for her family and friends.   A blessing of the rings is definitely not a legal, binding or otherwise a wedding or marriage.  For us, it was the next best thing for family and friends.  

It really bothers me that someone, especially the cooler heads, would misinterpret what I was saying regarding fraud activities or what-have-you,  especially since I'm a moderator on here now.  For the record....I never suggested an undocumented wedding to anyone.  I would like someone to point it out in anything that I've written, if that's what they truly believe.  The idea for me to have one crossed my mind, but I did not suggest that portion to anyone.  I didn't even mention it until my last post.  I did suggest a Big Party for those waiting to get married in America. I'm sorry if you read into what I was suggesting.  I tried to be clear in the fact that it was a party for her family and friends...and I still don't think it's a bad idea for those not marrying in Colombia.  

Sean, you didn't "throw" me and I understand what you did and why. That's all fine and dandy and I wasn't judging you for it.

But you were recommending that others do it like you did and THAT is why I disagreed, for the reasons stated.

For the benefit of anyone else out there reading this, a fiancée visa is for someone intending to marry in the States. Attempting to have a wedding overseas, recorded or not, and also using the fiancée visa, is bordering on visa fraud and can very possibly get you into a huge mess. There have been many discussions before on "fake" or unrecorded marriages for those wishing to use the fiancée visa route. For those who like that idea, do what you want, but in my opinion it is irresponsible to recommend that course of action for others on a public forum.

Ray

MY rebuttal, to clear my name are the following quotes...there are more and are repeated, but a few are:  

My wife and I had a Pre-Wedding ceremony and reception in Barranquilla for all of her friends and family. 

 It was just like a wedding, except without the actual vows.  

I think that is a good idea for anyone who's wanting to let her family and friends see her get married....without technically getting married.      

Correction.....it's a good idea for someone doing a K-1 instead of opting to marry in Colombia.  


My idea was for people who'd rather do the K-1 route.  

 Like I said, I gave her a choice of a big wedding here or a Big pre-wedding party there because we had already filed the K-1.   I wanted to make sure she would begin to adjust to America before we got married and quite honestly....

For others reading...I wouldn't knock the idea so quickly.  The priest knew why we was REALLY there (to get married)...he even made an announcement during the blessing, and the family and friends knew why we was there.  True, it wasn't technically a "real" wedding because we couldn't recite our vows...

Just insert "Big Fancy Formal Going Away Party"  for "pre-wedding party" and you'll be ok I think.

Honestly, I don't see how anyone could have come to the same conclusions as you did.  And even if they did....they have it completely 100% wrong.  Maybe me naming it "Pre-Wedding Party" caused the confusion or perhaps it was the fact that it was a "blessing of the rings" ceremony. I agree with your visa fraud comments 100% and if ANYONE goes back and reads my posts...I clearly stated several times that we was getting married in America and that we had a Big party before she left.  True, the idea  of being able to not record a Church Wedding sounded good to me for the sake of her family and friends....but I did not once suggest that part to anyone.  (Again, that part wasn't even mentioned until my last post).  


DT,
I don't know what band wagon your jumping on today...but you clearly didn't read my posts either.  Why don't you quote the parts of me specifically saying...From Day one I wanted to have a wedding in America?  and then quote the reasons I gave for that decision, which I spelled out twice in two different posts.  They shouldn't be too hard to find, because I kept repeating myself.   There was no reason to change our visa if our wedding was to happen in America.  To quote you....

That's like...waaaaayyy too logical.....

DayTrader

If no one can see my point, that's fine.  No one has to agree with me, but let it be known for the record......that I, as a poster and as a moderator, DO NOT, HAVE NOT, and WILL NEVER suggest, insinuate or think it is a good idea for anyone to commit fraud or any other illegal or other wise stupid activity or do anything that would jeopardize their chances of a successful marriage.  

Sorry if I am making a mountain out of a mole hill here, but something suggested as this really bothers me.  It wouldn't bother me so much if it came from one of the "village idiots" here, but it didn't.

[papi]

"village idiots" LOL! Don't let it get to you...el papi is frequently misunderstood often by the aforementioned community. 

[sean126]

Sean126,
OK,  you've had your say.  If you need to discuss it further then perhaps starting a thread in the "flame room" would be the way to go.

sean.


(see, I'm fair.  I even moderated myself. ) 

[Ray]

“It was just like a wedding, except without the actual vows.”

“We decided beforehand to have the bigger wedding in Colombia.”

“I think that is a good idea for anyone who's wanting to let her family and friends see her get married....without technically getting married.”

“True, it wasn't technically a "real" wedding because we couldn't recite our vows...but to EVERYONE, including the priest, it was a real wedding... in our hearts and minds.”


I don’t know Sean, it seemed pretty clear to me. You said to EVERYONE it was a real wedding. Your words...

You had a “fake” wedding and then recommended it for others. How did I mis-interpret?

Anyway, I’m glad that you cleared it up by rephrasing it.   

Peace,

Ray

[daytrader]

Sean, I wasn't criticizing you I was just agreeing with the "obvious" IMO....I believe in the Keep It Simple Stupid method. 

We don't want others to get the wrong idea around here about playing games with Immigration and Visa fraud if someone took half of your idea tweaked it and ...when caught said.. "hey a moderarator at such and such MOB forum did that!"    Others have made the point better than I, obviously.

DayTrader. 

...just another killer day slaying pigeons in the futures market.....FYI... hopefully the worst is over in the short term regarding the markets... if today's lows are taken out in the future, we be goin...way...way... lower.. I look for a short term rally from today's mid-day lows during the rest of the week.  Remember, I'm a daytrader so I don't care where the market goes...