Questions about Latinas

[el_ruso]

Mr Doombug,

Your numbers and graphs refer to either illegal immigration or those who have received amnesty (which makes them initially illegal I assume).

Do you really think that those guys who run across the border have any remote chance to get immigrant visas in Mexico or Honduras?  Or in Colombia for that matter? 

I am not sure what you were trying to prove, but you definitely did not prove me wrong.

[papi]

Mr. Doombug, it is your turn at cross. Would you like to subpoena my palm tree? I trust said tree has seen its share of immigrants crossing it's path

[el_ruso]

Paps,

you might be missing something here.  I do disagree with Mr Doombug on this issue.  I do think that his most recent post did not disprove my statements.  Having said that, I do respect his opinion as much as I hope he respects mine.  The reason I respect it is because I do find him an objective and informed person.  I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I don't take disagreement personal, as long as it is respectful.  I hate to say this, but usually I can't say that about you.

Besides those dancing Farley's are fascinating.  Keep on watering that poor palm tree.

[doombug]

Mr Doombug,

Your numbers and graphs refer to either illegal immigration or those who have received amnesty (which makes them initially illegal I assume).

Do you really think that those guys who run across the border have any remote chance to get immigrant visas in Mexico or Honduras?  Or in Colombia for that matter? 

I am not sure what you were trying to prove, but you definitely did not prove me wrong.

I moved my response to this thread--"More Immigrant Bashing in the News. Bring your Bats!"--as I don't want to clutter up this thread any longer.

[sawyer1370]

Ok well here is my take on the points and questions asked by jm21-2.  I went to Cali in '97, and I was 27 years old, by far the youngest guy there.  It gave me a big advantage with most ladies, because I was the same age as the ladies I was interested in.  Most don't mind an age differents, there is 4 years between my wife and I.  But anything more than 10 years will present a different set of challenges.

As far as that arguments go, my wife and I have had some heated ones over the 8 years of our marriage.  Her temper can be bad, and she goes from 0 to 100 in the blink of an eye some times.  But like Sean126 stated, my wife never stays made for much time.  The most has been a couple of days, but I deserved it!  My wife has almost never brought up stuff to throw in my face from past arguments, which I seem to think most American women love to do.  You can have an issue settled, then 6 months later, an American woman will rehash the same thing to use against you.  My wife has never really done that.  Once the issue is settled, it's over, and there is no loss of love or respect.  Sean's observations are the same as what I have experienced over the last 8 years.

Religion is all up to the individual.  My wife has a strong faith, but she isn't pushy about it, and unless you really knew her, you would have no idea how strong her faith is.  We go to church every Sunday, and we are raising our kids in a Christian environment, but that is our choice.  Faith is always a personal thing, and each person has a different view of things, and how they implement those things in their lives.  If it is something that is important to you whether it is someone who is strong in their faith or not, then don't over look that.  Make sure you find a lady who has similar views in that area!

The topic of Racism.  It's out there all around!  I never would have believed things if I didn't experience it through my wife first hand.  We use to live in New England, and with my wife's accent, she would get looks.  She would get looks for the way she dresses, but that is more cultural than anything.  And hey, she has a great body, so why should she not show that in a tasteful way!  We now live in Arizona outside of Phoenix, and she has experienced it a bit here too.  She just graduated nursing school at the top of her class.  One of the professors made some discriminatory remarks to her in the middle of class.  It was so bad that many of the others in the class apologized for the teacher's improper behavior.  I was so made I wanted to take legal action, but it all blew over.  Americans are so clueless about the rest of the world.  Most of the time when I have seen racism, it is the racist person who is the one that looks like the idiot, but in the middle of a situation it is hard to have perspective sometimes.  I thought we would not see nearly as much here in the Phoenix area, with the high population of Latins/Mexicans.  Many Americans see a Latin person who has an accent and immediately thinks (Mexican here in AZ, but in NY it might be Puerto Rican or insert the Latin nation of your choice depending on your area).  It is so funny too because each country has it's own completely different culture.

It is like just because my wife speaks Spanish and is Latin she likes Mexican food.  Colombia food is so much different than Mexican food.  That is one example of dozens I could use to show the ignorance and arrogance of many Americans.  I could go on, but I won't.  jm21-2, if you marry a non-American, regardless if she is Latin, Asian, Russian or whatever, you will have to deal with it.  It's funny too, because there is very little racism in the Latin world.  There is a definite hierarchy between the different Latin countries, and there is some of that, but that's about it from what I have seen.

Make a list of the things that are most important to you with finding a partner.  Here were some of mine, in no particular order.
-View of handling money
-View of communicating in a relationship
-View of affection and passion
-View of family and raising children
-View of relationship with me vs. her family
-Work ethic
-Hobbies
-Wanting to stay fit and live a healthy lifestyle

There were like 40 others I made before I started this whole thing, but those seem to be the ones that I remember being at the tope of the list.

Sean made some other good points that are right on in my experience: 
-thrifty, a hard worker and more rational than emotional
-treat you like a king (my wife makes my lunch every day before I we head out to work and I'm not talking about a simple sandwich either, she will put the tooth past my my brush if she gets to the bathroom first, there are dozens of other little things she does just to be nice.  How many American women would make a nice lunch everyday at 5:00 just to be sure their husband eats a healthy lunch, and will have a couple of buck not buying a lunch at McDonalds).

Just keep doing your research and asking questions!

[papi]

Sawyer, you certainly make a strong case for forgetting gringas forever. Don Papi is impressed!
Well done. I look forward to learning more from you

[el_ruso]

Sawyer,

yours is one of the most thoughtful posts I have seen.  I also hope you post more often.

[jm21-2]

Thanks for the response Sawyer! Haha...a real lunch every day? I know so many guys whose girlfriends can barely manage making a hamburger, or cookies from store-bought dough. You're a lucky man!

How did your wife deal with the weather in NY?

I've seen some agencies which offer to have the guy and girl exchange questionnaires. What do you all think about that? Practical idea, or too cold?

My impression on the racial attitudes here is that there is a lot of ignorance, but there are some people who take it a step or ten further when it comes to Hispanics. Even to the point of stores refusing to do business with them, police hassling them, being denied jobs or demoted or fired if a white person comes along, and that sort of thing. A lot of it is illegal, but if a complaint never gets filed...

One of my white friends went to work on a farm recently, after finally getting his retarded ass out of jail. He had no references or work experience, and was promoted to supervisor the first day. Now, maybe he just REALLY impressed the farmer, but considering all the guys working under him were Hispanic, and he said the farmer all but told him he was getting the promotion because he was white...

[sawyer1370]

Thanks for the kind words el ruso and papi.  On many of the subjects that are talked about, I can't really add a lot.  I joined Latin Connection (now out of business) almost 10 years ago, and met my wife about 9 years ago.  I'm sure a lot has changed with the agencies and stuff.  But the whole process remains the same, so maybe I do have stuff I can add.

I put a tremendous amount of thought, effort and research into things before I ever made my first trip.  I think far too many guys don't, which leads to many of the problems.  I think a good number of guys just thing it's an easy way to get a pretty girl.  Well these girls are very different from any girls they are use to dating.  I still don't understand a lot of things in the culture.  I am now smart enough to not even try because I never will.  Growing up in the U.S. with our society and culture compared to any Latin American, or other country for that matter, is litterally like night and day.

Most never even think about any of that, or even really truly know why the want what they want.  I had no problems at all finding pretty girls to date here.  I just didn't like the values, materialism and games that are involved in dating here in the U.S.  So I spent 6 months doing a brutally honest self evaluation in dozens of areas.  Some things I didn't really like or even realize until I was honest with myself.  Most people can't do that type of stuff.  It is important to do in order to truly know why you want what you think you want.

JM as far as the weather goes, we lived in New Hampshire the first 6 years of our marriage, where I grew up.  My wife was always cold, and I mean always.  The winters were hard in some ways, but she loves to ski believe it or not.  She just bought plenty of sweaters and long underwear!  I think she likes the weather here in Phoenix better.  But then again, no one likes it when it's 120 degrees.

I'm willing to field any questions on just about any subject, so feel free to fire away here, or shot me a PM if you like.

[jm21-2]

I was reading your post, and had a question, but thought this was the more appropriate place to put it.

You mentioned looking at past relationships and seeing where you might have gone wrong. I personally have not dated much. I keep meeting those girls you talk with for 30 minutes and nothing, and it seems like every girl I meet who seems like a good bet is either Muslim, lesbian, completely focused on her career, has very different views from me on what relationships should be like, or something along those lines. I suppose I've been a bit too focused on my education and career too, and have moved around quite the last few years. So my question is: how much self-searching do you think is possible when you haven't had much in the way of relationships? And I guess a second question for all the members, do you think there are Colombianas who prefer a sort of innocent, naive, earnest guy, or do they pretty much always prefer a guy who knows the game?

[el_ruso]

JM,

different women look for different things in men.  The good thing about colombianas is that they mature fairly early on, and with that seem to value qualities of "good guys".  However, you should not come across as a doormat or a wimp.

If a colombian girl sees that you are stable, responsible, enterprising, appear to make potentially a good father, it will matter to her a LOT more than to an american girl in early or mid 20's, or even in many cases further on.

I don't want to speak generalizations, but there is a common trait among many colombianas: they have an urge to feel proud of themselves, their family and their men too.  For example, the reason they put so much effort into their appearance is because their pride doesn't let them show up ungroomed.  They have a need to feel proud of their men, of their appearance and their accomplishments.  You don't need in most cases to be Alexander the Great to meet that requirement, but she will expect that you share those values and will put an effort into grooming and trying to find success in whatever you are good at.  As I have said before, she expects you to treat her like a queen, and she will treat you like a king, but you do have to be at least a little bit king-like too.  Hope this helps.

[sawyer1370]

el ruso is right on.  My wife wouldn't date guys in Colombia because almost all cheat or treat their wives like dirt.  Even her brothers are terrible husbands and fathers, it makes me so angry that they just can't step up and act like a man should for his family.  My wife never leaves the house looking bad.  If we are ever going out anywhere, she is always looking nice.  Many times I end up changing not to look like a slob next to her. 

Most Latina's just want a good man that will be honest and loving.  My wife doesn't care how big our house is, what type of car she drives, or anything like that.  As long as I'm loving and dedicated to the relationship, she will make sure to try and make me happy.  It's a cultural thing.  The women in Latin America are very competitive, so if they let themselves go, or are not keeping up their end of the relationship, then they know the man will seek what he isn't getting elsewhere.  You don't have to have Brad Pitt looks, but you can't be a slob either.  Just being an average guy who puts into the relationship as the lady does, you will be fine.  And yes as ruso said, they like their men to be strong and take charge.  Being wishy washy won't cut it most of the time.

Well getting your education finished and your career on track has to come before any relationship.  It is hard to focus on those things and trying to start a relationship or marriage.  For example, my wife just finished nursing school.  She starting taking the pre-requisites about 5 years ago, which was about 2 1/2 years after we had been married.  There is no way we could have gotten through the challenges and how demanding the last 2 years were with her school if we didn't have a solid foundation first.  We had dealt with enough problems and challenges in the first 3 years, which gave us the strength in our relationship to get through tougher times later on.

I don't envy any single people now.  I have a few friends that are single, and seeing what they go through just to find someone whom they actually would like to date on a regular basis is crazy.  It seems the game playing gets worse and worse.  And the lack of honesty and monogamy is crazy.

The big thing is it only takes one!  Once I met my wife, I knew I was very interested in her.  I met her on my second day during one trip.  I didn't want to limit myself so quickly, so I told her I would call in a couple of days.  I had a bunch of appointments, and went out with a group of people a couple times in those 2 days.  There was only one other lady that I felt I had some interest in.  I actually was meeting with her that late afternoon.  After she left, I called my wife and asked if she could meet me that night.  That way I could compare the two ladies back to back.  After my wife came and we talked for a bit, I knew she was a keeper.  We went out that night to sixth ave and walked around for a couple of hours talking.  We stopped at a little cafe to get a drink.  We were the only ones in there, mostly cuz it was a Monday night.  She was showing me how to salsa, and I remember trying to follow her by looking at her knees.  I remember very clearly thinking "This is the most fun I have ever had in my life!"

That was it, I was done!  We've been together ever since.  Life gets busy with the kids, work and all the other stuff we have going on.  It is easy to let the outside pressures wear on us and our relationship.  But when we get a chance to get away as just the 2 of us, it takes all of about 30 minutes for us to relax and enjoy each other like we did that first night on sixth avenue.

You just need to know what exactly you are looking for and why.  That way you can know when you have found it or not.  If you are 99% sure, then move on, cuz she isn't the one.  I knew like nothing else, and I'm still very happy!

The amount of dating you have done won't matter much.  You should know what you want and don't want.  Not having some experience to draw from limits things a bit, but you still know what you want and don't want.

That's just my thoughts, I am by no means an expert or anything.  Take what I say, and what everyone else says with a grain of salt.  Pick out the stuff that makes sense to you and forget the rest.

[sean126]

jm21-2,

Sawyer's answer is probably different than mine, but I did the same thing as far as soul searching.  In my case, all my life I had relied on my looks and my humor.  I stutter, so needless to say I was pretty shy, ashamed or embarrassed about that.  Also, in my case I was a jerk with women.  I used intimidation, guilt, played games ect...Keep in mind that I'm talking about since I was the age of 16.  Young people do alot of stupid stuff.  However, it didn't change much when I got older either.  I mistreated and chased off some very good girls and women in my day.  So, at a certain point I guess I grew up and stopped and had a change of attitude.  Then I went to the other extreme with a few girls and bend over backwards to please them.  I was getting what I had always given out to the women in the past.  I mean, I had no set boundaries and I let them walk all over me and I took it.  Why not?  I thought I loved them and wanted to show them.  That didn't work to well either.

I'm 38 now, when I was 31 I had broken up with my last girlfriend.  I was arrested twice on a D.U.I. charge in about 18 months time and when I got my second one I couldn't drive for a year.  I was in jeopardy of losing my job because of it as well.  I had found out that I do best in a bar or dance club environment.  I stutter, but I can also dance really well.  I found out that when I drink....I don't stutter!  So, when I couldn't drive....I suddenly realized that I didn't have any friends, only acquaintances.  So, I was stuck at home for over a year with no where to go but work...and I had to take taxi's for that.  Needless to say...that was not a happy time in my life.  Depressed, suicidal, and going on a heavy pity trip.  I'm a good person.  Why can't I find the right woman or get anyone to love me?, I thought.

For me....thats when God started working on me.  I couldn't go nowhere, so I had nothing to do BUT think about myself, how I treated other people and how I let others treat me and how I always choose the wrong women.  Most were good hearted women, but I knew in my heart they weren't the ones for me.  This went on for about 4 years.  I couldn't even get the ugly women to look at me.  It was a good thing though, I wasn't ready.    

For me.....getting closer to God is what changed my attitude and how I thought and saw things.  It was one of the hardest things I had to do, but trusting that God was working on me and knowing that when He thought I was ready to become a good man, husband and friend then He'd provide the opprotunity for me to meet the woman He has been keeping for me.  Why would He give me a wife, when I wasn't the right man for her yet?  That was my thinking at the time.  I'm not talking about going out and trying "save" everyone from hell.  I'm talking about God getting my head and heart right and making better decisions, especially with the type of women that I was looking for.  I wasn't too hard to look at, I was funny and I used to be a male stripper at one point in my life.  I was surrounded by nice looking women for years and yet I was very lonely and I had a hard time finding the right one.  

So for me, God orchestrated events in my life that led me to the point to where I had no choice BUT to soul search or just keep going down hill and become more depressed and bitter about life.  I decided for the former.  Others wise up long before I did, but I'm head strong and over confident in my intelligence.  

JM21-2, that was my path and how much soul-searching you need to do and HOW you need to do it differs with each individual.  Mine was God, yours may not be if your not a Christian.  I'm taking a shot in the dark here, but I'd bet you're overly nice to women, you're not a challenge to them (if you like them you're like..."here I am, I'm all yours if you want me".), you have boundaries but you are constantly moving them in order to appease the woman and you naturally assume that just because your honest and upfront about things with them in a relationship that they will reciprocate just because you're that way.  You probably unconsciously search out women that you know will be a doomed relationship from the start because they seem like a challenge to you.  If you got them, I'm sure you wouldn't be happy with the type of woman they are.  

I'm definitely not talking bad or insinuating bad things about you.  If I had to take a guess, I'd say those are some of the things you might need to address...if they are correct.  My point is, every single person goes through a phase where they try to figure out what the problem is.  As Sawyer said, we need to be honest with ourselves and truly look at some things that would normally "hit a nerve" if anyone else mentions it.  Usually how we THINK about those things is exactly what's wrong with us...not the things themselves.  Meaning...oversensitivity or having a closed mind, ect...  It's kinda hard for anyone to say how you should go about it.  It's one of them things you have to figure out on your own, but something that everyone needs to do, should do, but seldom does.  You can even ask people who know you really well what they think your defects are when it comes to women.

I can say, from what I've experienced and seen...that you have to be a little more stronger (inside) with Latin women.  Each girl is different, but as a general rule I think they respect and appreciate a stronger male.  Where an american woman might see that as you challenging her... I think latin women expect that from a man.  At least that's my take on it.  Others may have a totally different view.

I personally don't think you need alot of experience to hit it big.  People are people.  For instance....everyone at somepoint asks, "why do people do bad stuff sometimes."  I believe the answer is because the results of their actions don't immediately come upon them and they think because that's the case that they've somehow gotten away with something.  I'm quite sure if each time someone lit up a cigerette it blew up and blew their head off, I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to find someone willing to take a chance on smoking.  Or if each time a man cheated on
his wife your penis would immediately fall off. I bet there would be more faithful men in this world.  The situation and details always change, but the bottom line is...people all over the world do the same crazy stuff for the same crazy reasons.  Wether it be good or bad stuff.  Theres a difference between being naive and stupid.  Once you get your soul searching done, you should be making better decisions and choices with women...naturally.

Sawyer is definitely right.  You absolutely need to find out what it is your looking for and what is most important to you and what makes you happiest, the next step is the soul searching.  At least that's the way it was with me.

[jm21-2]

Thanks for all the comments! Sean, you might be onto something I really wasn't really aware of myself. I wouldn't call myself a doormat or wimp, but I do like complicated women and tend to keep chasing after them even when I know it's bad for me or there's nothing there. Persistently try to make things work just because it feels like I lose if they don't...definitely a bad habit.

I try to be more polite/diplomatic on the forum to help keep the peace. There's a post somewhere in the flame room I contributed a bit too though when I lost my temper with Ray, haha.

Haha, this girl from Brazil brought up the topic of religion because she thought I was very religious, and when I told her I was an Atheist she thought I was nuts. Hahaha...and she's a Spiritist :/

[sean126]

JM21-2,

I'm sorry dude.  I forgot you was an atheist.  Well, I'm sure you get my point though.   Everyone is basically the same at their very core.  You get to know your true self...aside from all the fears and then you can figure out everyone else.  Or something to that effect.

[jm21-2]

JM21-2,

I'm sorry dude.  I forgot you was an atheist.  Well, I'm sure you get my point though.   Everyone is basically the same at their very core.  You get to know your true self...aside from all the fears and then you can figure out everyone else.  Or something to that effect.

Haha, nah, I get your point. Your posts have been very helpful. Logical and reasonable advice or arguments aren't constrained by religious boundaries.

[markanthony7]

I personally feel the "flaming Latina" thing is just a negative stereotype commonly said about Hispanics, its too general and wrong to categorize hispanics in this manner

[sawyer1370]

First, Sean that took some guts to be that honest, and I'm sure others will find your words helpful.  My situation was different, but the end results were the same.  I looked at many couples and really tried to understand why the happy couples were happy, and what was different about them and the couples that were not happy.

I also was in a self improvement phase of my life.  I was at the beginning of my career, being out of grad school a few years.  I was studying Martial Arts very seriously and I think the combination of many things caused me to want to better understand myself.  I think spending those six months or so really peeling back the layers of myself made the difference.

Mark, I agree with your point somewhat.  My wife has a temper and is very passionate in many ways.  Some of it is cultural, and some of it is her personality.  The Latin culture is more open to expressing their passion in things.  This works in love, work and family.  It is a good and bad thing.  I have said before, when I first got married I really tried to understand the cultural differences with my wife and I.  I figured it would give me some insight into why she was the way she was sometimes.  After 2 years, I realized since the cultures are so different, and I never had experienced that culture for a long extended period of time, I just wouldn't be able to relate on a lot of things.  I have since stopped trying to figure it out.  It has help get rid of some frustrations.

[utopiacowboy]

In response to the question, "do you think there are Colombianas who prefer a sort of innocent, naive, earnest guy, or do they pretty much always prefer a guy who knows the game?", let's put it this way, as a rule they do not suffer fools gladly. Assuming that you're not what my wife would call a bobo and you're a decent regular guy, you'll do fine.