My first year of marriage

[papi]

I guarantee you do not have better translators

CV, i have to disagree with you on this. I don't need a translator but sometimes had his staff stick around. They speak excellent English and are often helpful. I have seen other agencies where the secretaries are too busy to really help the gringo, that does not happen with Jamie

i think you really have him wrong. He is not one of the bad guys...

[sean126]

Cali-vet,

With total respect towards you....It would be a better comment from you if you had already went through his service to meet women before speaking so strongly against it.  Jamie got a few comments made against him for his sweeping generalizations...It seems even more of mistake to criticize a company that you've never personally delt with.  Does it not?  
His agency isn't the cheapest I've seen, very true...but then again no one points a gun to anyone's head making them go to his agency.  I don't think he sends out flyers all over the U.S. inviting guys to use his agency or anything.  If someone spoke spanish then yes, it would make more sense maybe to spend less money on a big tour thing like TLC has.  You can see a bunch of women all at the same time in one room.  However, if you are interested in meeting 10, 15, or 20 or so women...I would think many U.S. men do not have this much time for individual introductions.  After you meet someone,you will need a whole day or so just to get to know someone.  Multiply that by 15 or 20, then that's about 3 weeks just with the individual introductions.  I don't know if he's changed it or not, but he does have separate prices for individual introductions if that's what the guy wants.  Even with the grand tour, you can have one on one dinner dates with a few of the girls if you want.  So, he has more than one strategy.  
I've used his services and I was in heaven.  Then again, I've dated more than my fair share of women and I can tell within a few minutes if I want to get to know them better or not...so "normal" one on ones for the entire thing would have been a waste of time for me.
I haven't used any other agencies services so I cannot make a comparison with the services or the owners.  But I can say with all honesty that I never felt like I was cheated, taken advantage of or ripped off by him.    

Some people like William3rd are part of the "camp" that says...you get what you pay for.  I personally don't agree with that, but some people do.  To be honest, I personally don't see why anyone who is fluent in Spanish would need to purchase his grand tour...or even spend the lesser amounts the other agencies charge.  Just get their e-mails, write to each other, maybe call and talk on the phone for a while and then go.  I would think the agencies ESPECIALLY cater to the people who don't speak spanish.  That just seems logical to me.  That's like me going to England and paying $300, $500 or $2000 to meet women in a grand tour...when I can easily buy their e-mail address and write them and then talk to them on the phone and then jump on a plane and meet 5, 10 or however many women I wanted to meet.

I don't think explaining himself makes him sarcastic or defensive.  I thought he clarified his points and position pretty well.  I may not agree with every single point, but I could see where he was coming from.  I've seen other posts where other people have really laid it on him and he seemed to keep his cool in responding.  I see the same thing now.  That's only my opinion though.

[papi]

Sean, lots of guys speak spanish and use agencies. There are pros and cons...like everything in colombia and life for that matter. Can someone provide me with the minutes??

[Cali-vet]

Papi an Sean your comments are appreciated...and I stand by mine.

[el_ruso]

Jamie,

"There is a big difference between making personal accusations to an individual and making statements of a general nature. Are you trying to say there is not a difference and one needs to immediately justify both?"

Your statements were not something like "sky is cloudy today".  They were a very broad, negative and unbstantiated defamation of colombian women.  If I took your statements "out of context", please advise what was this context.  And I am genuinly surprised by your own surprise that someone asked you to defend such statements.  As I said, it is meaningless to argue with someone who refuses to substantiate his opinion, and such opinions without any meaningful substantiation are worthless.  The most outrageous and broad accusations you have made, ie that Colombians are "incessant liars" and majority of colombian women are a disaster when it comes to being a wife.  Not only it is "provoking" as you call it, why would some fool make his way to Colombia and... to your company?  Well we have to wait for an article to get some sort of substantiation for your statement until you choose to publish your articles.  Let me guess, they will go something like: "Colombia is awful, Colombians are awful, they are all liars and criminals and "disasters", but if you are brave enough, I am the only one who can find you a gem here.  Just head straight to my office, and don't dare to peak out or you will be snatched by kidnappers or seduced by incessantly lying women who were not screened by me.  Oh, and if they share anything in private with an employee here, I will make sure that information is relayed to you."  BTW, these broad accusations constitute the main reason I responded to your original post, not the details you seem to focus on.

I am not for painting an overly rosy picture of Colombia.  It does have its problems, its dangers.  Its corruption scale is undoubtedly higher than that of US, but it is not the worst case scenario either.  Regardless, I am not planning building highways there, and this will hardly affect me or a casual traveler.  It does have a higher crime rate, but if a casual tourist acts reasonably and does not engage in illicit activities, his risks are not so hight that should preclude him from visiting.  Unemployment is very high, but again I don't see how can it affect directly a casual tourist or even an expat.

"I disagree you have a significantly larger variety of clubs in a like size city to choose from in the States then you do in Colombia."

Well, I have been to a number of clubs here and in Colombia.  Clubs there have performances, play nice music (mix of Latin and English actually), music is usually not too loud, people are polite and dressed well, there is plenty opportunity for dancing.  Most clubs here don't measure up, not so much due to lack of investment, but due to their format.  Music is too loud, most either play hiphop or electronic stuff, people are not going there to dance and relax with friends, but to get drunk or purchase drugs.  Not all the clubs are like that, but a very large number, perhaps a majority, is.

"Again much less than the States. Pollution is much worse in Colombia and they are destroying much of the natural beauty. It is also much more dangerous to travel on the outskirts of Colombia. True or False?"

Regarding pollution you are right, however there is a lot of unspoiled beauty remaining.  Colombia is a lot more compact, so you can see a great variety of landscapes and natural areas.

"What food would that be and please provide the ingredients and how it is cooked?"

Do I really have to list traditional food?  There is bandeja paisa, tamales, churrasco steaks.  There are plenty of restaurants offering generous portions of tasty food, especially steak.

"Could you tell us how much time you have spent in Colombia? "

I have been to Colombia five times.  I have also been to Venezuela, Ecuador, Mexico, Brazil, Mexico, Santo Domingo, various countries in Europe, etc. if this helps.

[Cachaco]

To get back for a minute to the original topic of this thread: Congratulations Sean on successfully clearing the first year hurdle in your marriage. You have a beautiful young wife.

[Jamie]

Cali-Vet

As I said it was a cursory look so missed the part about hotel.

I’ll take it that’s how you apologize.

However you are dreaming (and you do seem to exist in kind of a bubble up there) when it comes to comparability.

You sly dog you noticed my wives bubble.

Apart from winning hands down on having the most verbose website there have been absolutely no reports anywhere indicating that you offer a superior oportunity to meet a Colombian lifemate, superior that is to other agencies that offer the same or better service for a fraction of your astounding price.

I probably have more public reports then any other Latin agency you still must be on “cursory look” mode.

I guarantee you do not have better translators than those employed by the agencies I mentioned, nor do you offer more attentive service.

And I am sure that is a valid guarantee considering you knew nothing about us till uh… today.

In fact I can´t imagine the shock and overwhelming sensation of "I´ve been had!" that I would experiece after paying the highest agency price in all Colombia only to have you sit me down at a table with fifteen women and say well guy this is your introduction.

Well you are going to have to imagine because that is the only place you would hear this.

What a time saver for you! Even taking the gouging out of the equation I would never agree to a meeting stratagy like that.

Why you don’t think a group of women would want to meet you?

Might just as well go on a TLC tour where I could at least walk up to the women I´m attracted to and introduce myself and not waste time being gracious to the twos and threes asking me questions at your round table.

I have had many men on the forums marry through our agency you think their wives are 2’s and 3’s or are you just being gracious with that score?

From what has been posted it appears your clients are first timers to Colombia...

A little while ago you said there has been "absolutely no reports" are you now saying there have been reports?

...who have never had and don´t realize they have a right to expect  normal one to one introductions with women they choose.

Not only that I forbid the men to have one on one sex it’s either with the group or with no one.

All in all you make your self out to be a hostle and angry old guy who hates everything about where he is

And you sound gentle, fair, objective and caring I mean that in a cursory way of course.

(Ruso is right, you haven´t said anything positive about your life in Colombia) but stays for the money.

Are you against that too, making money?

And quit already with the "read it on my website" blurbs.

Why it got you to take a cursory look if I say it a few more times maybe I can get you to read it line for line and have you reciting it by tomorrow got one quote out of you all ready.

If you have something to say to members of this forum then step up to the plate and say it right here!

Yes as a mater of fact I do have something to say, “read it on my website”.

By the way I asked you two questions which you did not to answer any reason for not swinging at these?

[Jamie]

There is a big difference between making personal accusations to an individual and making statements of a general nature. Are you trying to say there is not a difference and one needs to immediately justify both?"

Your statements were not something like "sky is cloudy today".  They were a very broad, negative and unbstantiated defamation of colombian women.  If I took your statements "out of context", please advise what was this context.  And I am genuinly surprised by your own surprise that someone asked you to defend such statements.  As I said, it is meaningless to argue with someone who refuses to substantiate his opinion, and such opinions without any meaningful substantiation are worthless.  The most outrageous and broad accusations you have made, ie that Colombians are "incessant liars" and majority of colombian women are a disaster when it comes to being a wife.  Not only it is "provoking" as you call it, why would some fool make his way to Colombia and... to your company?  Well we have to wait for an article to get some sort of substantiation for your statement until you choose to publish your articles.  Let me guess, they will go something like: "Colombia is awful, Colombians are awful, they are all liars and criminals and "disasters", but if you are brave enough, I am the only one who can find you a gem here.  Just head straight to my office, and don't dare to peak out or you will be snatched by kidnappers or seduced by incessantly lying women who were not screened by me.  Oh, and if they share anything in private with an employee here, I will make sure that information is relayed to you."  BTW, these broad accusations constitute the main reason I responded to your original post, not the details you seem to focus on.

Thanks for not answering my question is this Russian education at work?

I am not for painting an overly rosy picture of Colombia.  It does have its problems, its dangers.  Its corruption scale is undoubtedly higher than that of US, but it is not the worst case scenario either.  Regardless, I am not planning building highways there, and this will hardly affect me or a casual traveler.  It does have a higher crime rate, but if a casual tourist acts reasonably and does not engage in illicit activities, his risks are not so hight that should preclude him from visiting.  Unemployment is very high, but again I don't see how can it affect directly a casual tourist or even an expat.

Again you don’t directly answer my questions and I even put question marks after them for you. It appears you are saying corruption and crime is high but earlier you criticize me for accusing Colombians of being corrupt and criminal. Hey is it ok for me to now accuse you of calling Colombians of being corrupt and criminal.

"I disagree you have a significantly larger variety of clubs in a like size city to choose from in the States then you do in Colombia."

Well, I have been to a number of clubs here and in Colombia.  Clubs there have performances, play nice music (mix of Latin and English actually), music is usually not too loud, people are polite and dressed well, there is plenty opportunity for dancing.  Most clubs here don't measure up, not so much due to lack of investment, but due to their format.  Music is too loud, most either play hiphop or electronic stuff, people are not going there to dance and relax with friends, but to get drunk or purchase drugs.  Not all the clubs are like that, but a very large number, perhaps a majority, is.

Man I tell you it hard for the United State to measure up to anything.

"Again much less than the States. Pollution is much worse in Colombia and they are destroying much of the natural beauty. It is also much more dangerous to travel on the outskirts of Colombia. True or False?"

Regarding pollution you are right, however there is a lot of unspoiled beauty remaining.  Colombia is a lot more compact, so you can see a great variety of landscapes and natural areas.

Is that what you are recommending hiking the jungles and mountains of Colombia?
By the way you’re skipping my questions. If I ask just one question per post would that help in getting an answer? Have any of you guys notice that in general if you write a handful of question to a Colombian woman you lucky to get one or two answered? There was this girl in the office and she was responding to a letter and afterwards I was reading her letter and I said you didn’t answer one of the guys questions. She says, there were no questions. I said here take a look here is a question, here is a question, here is a question… why didn’t you answer any of these questions? All she could do was stare so my question to you El Ruso, are you a Colombian woman?

"Could you tell us how much time you have spent in Colombia? "

I have been to Colombia five times.

 
Would that be about 5 weeks? If so you are allowed to use the suffix “vet” after your name.

[el_ruso]

1. YOU are the one who made statements that I questioned.  You refuse to substantiate them and instead give promises of writing an "article" on your site.  So the ball is in your court in regards to substantiating your statements and answering others' questions.

2. "Are you saying in general classifying Colombia as corrupt is wrong? And if you don’t consider Colombia corrupt what country should have this label?  Are you saying Colombia does not have a higher state of criminality then most nations?"

I have not studied corruption in Colombia vis-a-vis other nations.  Based on my perception it has more corruption than US and less than say Nigeria (which is supposed to be among the worst).  I do not think this has any affect on a casual tourist or on a propensity of an average Colombian woman to be a disaster as a wife, as you claim her to be.

I believe several congressmen have been accused of or found to be corrupt recently, particularly with the Abramoff scandal.  Does it mean that the US is a corrupt country, or that Americans themselves are corrupt?  I don't think so, and I bet you don't either, but you are saying essentially the same is true of Colombians.  Regardless, corruption in the government has little to nothing to do with personal relations with Colombians that a casual visitor or even en expat would have.  Or you are planning to start building highways there?

Yes, Colombia has more crime per capita.  As I have said before, most of it can be (and is) easily avoided as a lot of it is connected to the drug industry, and there is crime here too.  I never said that Colombia is perfect.  Neither it is this gloomy and awful hole that you think it is, and try to convince others.  Again, I don't remember you saying ANYTHING good about Colombia to enable you to claim being balanced and objective.

3. "Man I tell you it hard for the United State to measure up to anything."

I NOWHERE said this.  You suggested that I provide an example where Colombia measures up or is better, and I gave you one.  I did NOT say that US does not measure up, and especially to "anything".  US does measure up to Colombia and pretty much the rest of the world in almost anything, and frankly it should measure up given its resources, capital and economic system.

4. I DID answer that question.  If your question was primarily about safety, well, "outskirts of Colombia" indeed can be dangerous, but you don't need to travel that far to enjoy the beauty of the country.

5. I am not claiming to be "vet" or expert.  I do have some experience in Colombia, and I am not talking about something I have no idea about.  I have talked to a number of people who have lived or live in Colombia, and longer than you, and pretty much all of them seemed to have a view of the country as a whole a lot more different from yours, and at the very least they liked it and had something good to say about it.

Again, WHY do you waste your time in a place that you obviously loathe and peddle "disaster wives" to unsuspecting Americans?

[Cali-vet]

It´s obvious now that this guy´s defensive bahavior and unbridled antipathy towards Colombia and Colombians are what´s behind his misery in B/quilla. It´s also clear that his sole purpose on this forum to pimp his business.

[papi]

CV, i really think you got the guy all wrong. i have met him on several occasions. Hey, nobody is perfect but i think he does offer an honest service and makes an effort to help gringos. His website is not stacked with ringers and he has a capable staff and handles the citas in a professional manner. Since we have a mutual friend, i am assuming you are also a decent guy - give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

[Cali-vet]

Papi I only raised the issue of his website because he kept asking us to view it. I have been happily married and living in Colombia for quite a while so whether his service is good or bad is of no personal importance to me whatsoever. No I have never met the guy but on this forum he comes off as a defensive ass, pimping his business and not someone I would ever want to meet. You ask for the benifit of the doubt ok fine so be it.

[Jamie]

It´s also clear that his sole purpose on this forum to pimp his business.

It is also clear that you are afraid to answer my questions I think we can end this by saying we are all happy about the beautiful relationship between Scott and Peggy and the new alliance between Cali-Vet and El-Ruso.
International Introductions bringing people together for Love or Hate.

Ok Papi I will let you take over I am now in Carnival mode and will have to excuse myself for some merriment. For those who would like to know more about this occasion I provide 3 web pages of pictures and information.

http://www.latin-wife.com/barranquilla_carnival.asp

[daytrader]

It´s also clear that his sole purpose on this forum to pimp his business.

...HAVE to disagree with that quote...Jamie's words would discourage me from ever patronizing his business. 

DayTrader

[soltero]

Jamie may not be the most diplomatic speaker, but if you view his posts objectively, his opinion is not that different from many other expat's I have heard reflect on their lives in Colombia when talking amongst their friends. I have heard the same people give a different, more rosy view to people they had just met. There is a difference in visiting a place and living there.

While his observations may appear negative, I enjoy hearing them as I like to make up my own mind, and don't require smoke to be blown up my ass to make a decision. Everyone observes what they observe. Arguing opinions as fact is silly. A group of people can observe the same thing and you can come away with as many descriptions as people asked.

I give Jamie credit for putting out what he really believes no matter how it sounds rather than regurgitating some agency line to sucker the timid and those dependent on sunshine to leave the house.

[el_ruso]

"Arguing opinions as fact is silly"

I disagree.  If you state an opinion like Jamie's, it is perfectly reasonable to expect that someone will argue with you and ask you to justify it.  Besides, Jamie never said: "well, my opinion is that there are colombian women who might be disasters as wives" or that "some colombians might lie".  He did something VERY different.  He made broad, unequivocal generalizations in a language suggesting that they are facts.  He then refused to defend those statements, and seemed annoyed (!) that someone asked him to do that.  And I am glad he has backpedaled from his original assertions after being confronted by another poster and admitted that most colombians are "not bad".

If he states that Colombians are "incessant liers" and "disaster as wives", he should expect that he will need to justify saying such stuff.  I might agree or disagree with his arguments, but he should at least make an effort.  Otherwise, his statements are plain worthless.

[soltero]

"Arguing opinions as fact is silly"

I disagree.  If you state an opinion like Jamie's, it is perfectly reasonable to expect that someone will argue with you and ask you to justify it.  Besides, Jamie never said: "well, my opinion is that there are colombian women who might be disasters as wives" or that "some colombians might lie".  He did something VERY different.  He made broad, unequivocal generalizations in a language suggesting that they are facts.  He then refused to defend those statements, and seemed annoyed (!) that someone asked him to do that.  And I am glad he has backpedaled from his original assertions after being confronted by another poster and admitted that most colombians are "not bad".

If he states that Colombians are "incessant liers" and "disaster as wives", he should expect that he will need to justify saying such stuff.  I might agree or disagree with his arguments, but he should at least make an effort.  Otherwise, his statements are plain worthless.

I didn't say it was silly to contest the opinion, I said arguing it as if it were a fact is silly. There seem to have been some very heated contestations, and to me, that usually occurs when someone is trying to correct something misstated as fact, not just voicing an opinion. Arguing about a guy's opinion is not necessarily going to change it. An opinion is like an [snip]hole, everyone has one, and I don't see the need in getting upset about one. Like I said, Jamie is not very diplomatic, but if he feels that way about Colombia, you can't argue with how he feels or what he perceives. That is like assuming yours is the only valid opinion, and that's statistically impossible.

I agree that your counterpoints merit clarification, but that's as far as it can go. You are still only asking him to clarify why he feels the way he does. Once he does, what can you argue from there?

[papi]

we should keep in mind that not all are the same person online vs. real life. Heck, not everyone is in the fan club even though I happen to be very lovable in person 

[rpcv]

If you state an opinion like Jamie's, it is perfectly reasonable to expect that someone will argue with you and ask you to justify it.   He made broad, unequivocal generalizations in a language suggesting that they are facts.  He then refused to defend those statements, and seemed annoyed (!) that someone asked him to do that. 

I agree El Ruso.

Guess that makes me part of the El Ruso/Cali-Vet alliance.

[rpcv]

we should keep in mind that not all are the same person online vs. real life. 

True Papi but I believe you can still determine a lot about someone by the content of their writing. I've never met the agency owner Mark (Cartagena) who posts on here but based on his posts I've read, my impression is he seems like a decent guy running a respectable agency.