See if you can guess who are what "JLO" is talking about

[el_ruso]

Mark Anthony,

I agree with you on the gist of your post; however, you have missed the main positive of a woman having a child.  That is, when a person has the responsibility of raising one, she has to learn to think of someone else, to put herself second to the person she loves, as well as the discipline of course.  This is maturity, and no matter how "mature" a colombian girl might be otherwise (or might tell you she is), she will lack those traits.

Also, most guys do indeed seek women who are 1) very young and 2) have no children.  Why?  For various reasons they are easier available in Colombia than in US (a LOT easier perhaps) for most guys, and many guys get excited like a little child in a toy store, and pursue very young party girls with abandon.  Hey, different people are attracted to different things.  What makes DT very different than the majority of guys going to Colombia is that he apparently and sincerely seeks out woman's personal qualities first and foremost, and he does not discriminate "subprime" women.  That in itself should be commendable, and not discouraged.  I mean, to suggest that he has not thought this through, that the woman with children is a guaranteed failure, is really a BAD advice.

He can potentially live in Colombia, buy boats and property and such, he could EASILY get a teen GF to play with, or even a set of them.  He instead chose to have a commited relationship, he picked this woman for her personal qualities, and I sincerely hope that she is indeed a diamond.

DT

[soltero]

1. Maternal discrimination- When ever I receive inquiries in, general most guys usually request the young ladies without children even thought they themselves have procreated, this is a double standard and a discriminatory animus, we don't want a woman with children but we have contributed our part in the growing population

2. Emotional maturity- When a woman brings a child in this world and is faced with the responsibility of rearing that child, it is inevitable that she will endure a maturation process mentally propounded on her experiences with motherhood, the birthing and everyday responsibility of a child, will cause a woman to grow emotionally, psychologically and develope her character, these character and personality attributes can be regarded as significant when it comes to compatibility and chemistry in a relationship with two people, which can ultimately be the determining factor in the success, longevity or failure of a relationship or marriage. The good book says " How can to walk together accept they agree". All to many times we get carried away with the potential of having a young beautiful Latina woman to the point that it blinds us and we completely ignore character and compatibility issues that are associated with diverse maturity levels, I am not necessarily saying that the younger women in Cartagena have character flaws or are grossly immature, I found them to be more mature and relationship oriented than the average (AW) but for the sake of argument a woman with a child might be even more appropriate and suitable for a relationship with longevity and compatibility, just a better fit.

 P.S. I have more to elaborate on this subject but I would like to start with the first 2 issues regarding "discrimination" and "maturity"

Sorry to Hijack this thread, but markanthony7, Do you ever check your PMs? I want some information on your agency.

To make this on topic, I wish everyone the best of luck including Daytrader. Hopefully everyone is aware of the inherent perils of this undertaking, but until the bad stuff happens, if it will at all (it usually does), enjoy what you have until then and deal with it when it comes. There is no need to believe that things are going to be all doom and gloom until they are. Prepare and plan, then sally forth. Good luck and best wishes to all who are seeking love and happiness. I hope either you find them, or they find you.

[soltero]

Mark Anthony,

I agree with you on the gist of your post; however, you have missed the main positive of a woman having a child.  That is, when a person has the responsibility of raising one, she has to learn to think of someone else, to put herself second to the person she loves, as well as the discipline of course.  This is maturity, and no matter how "mature" a colombian girl might be otherwise (or might tell you she is), she will lack those traits.

El Ruso, I know you are very open to a woman with a child as a partner, but your positive to me is a potential negative. Granted, the women I have met that have had children in general were more mature and did learn the valuable lesson of not being as selfish as their childless peers, but also, that child is hers, and not yours, and more important to her than you (if she is a good mother). Also, they are already a family when you get there. That heirarchy is not likely to change, and even though you now complete the family circle, they were ALREADY family.  I just wanted to re-iterate that point.

Another point...if I am going to be the primary provider, and I have to tip toe around the discipline of a child in my house because he/she isn't mine, then best case scenario is not to allow myself to be in that situation in the first place. I don't have anything against kids, but having been in the situation before, I see no way that I will allow it to occur again. I haven't had my own yet, so I am DEFINITELY not looking for a woman with kids.

Not trying to discourage you, your mind is your own. Just offering up another view.

[zack]

Jimmy STLOUIS,

In the years that I have been reading your posts this is the first time I have seen your feathers ruffled just a little

I agree with your comments.

[sean126]

Soltero...I echo your comments, even though my experience with women who have kids were american women.  It may be a little different with latinas, but not so much so that you should have a totally different expectations...I think.
My worst was a woman who had a 3 year old who lived with her and two teenagers...16 and 17.  She allowed me some control in the raising of the baby, but the other two I think were spawns of satan and she didn't seem to mind how disrespectful they were to me or to her.  They even stooped so low as to outright tell lies about me.  I wasn't allowed to say anything...and when I did, guess who was the "bad guy"?

On the other end of the spectrum...I dated a woman with a 8 year old and she more or less let me have the role of "Dad" with her.  She was a very good kid.

I can't speak for DT, but I agree that he should give some thought to the "what ifs" and think about it from both sides of the fence and then establish a game plan rather than getting one with only one side of the expectations in mind.  He strikes me as having an analytical mind and I bet he's already ran the scenarios, who knows?

Also I don't think it's impossible or even close to that bad with keeping them happy...or satisfied might be a better word.  He lives in Ft. lauderdale and I'm sure the kids won't have any problems making friends at school. 
With all the potential problems in ANY marriage from anywhere....if people dwelled on the possible problems that COULD arise, I don't think ANY OF US would get married.  The best any of us can do is trust that your thinking straight and trust in your judgement and common sense of finding a good mate ( and trust that they can put up with your faults). 

I think now would be a good time for Daytrader to chime in and speak for himself.

[el_ruso]

Sean and Soltero,

I agree with much of what you say, and I have not said that a woman with a kid is a guaranteed duo (or trio) of loving angels.  However, if she is a bad mother to her kid, you will know right away that she is a bad mother, rather than learning about it lyears and thousands of $'s later.  Whatever pluses are to a woman with a kid, they are potential (and IMO likely) pluses, but certainly could be negatives in bad case scenarios.  But the latter case serves as a warning and wakeup call before being involved with that woman in the first place!

[blockbuster]

ER,

 I agree. A woman with kids will usually give you the heads up of what type of mother she will be. IF she does not allow you to discipline and is raising a disrespectful child then she would do it even if you had kids together. Which will cause plenty of arguments in the long run.

   I know a lot of latinas that spoil their kids in a major way. I would not take those girls if they were a solid 10!!Then I see a small minority who want to raise a good,respectful child and more than willing to have the stepfather be a full part of the childs life. These things are spoken about before the marriage.

[soltero]

Soltero...I echo your comments, even though my experience with women who have kids were american women.  It may be a little different with latinas, but not so much so that you should have a totally different expectations...I think.

Sean, it has been my experience that women are pretty much women. However, I have seen Latinas for the most part be more lax when it comes to discipline, especially if the child is male. I WISH my Mom was a Latina (lol)...male children can get away with murder as far as Mom is concerned and they tend to dote more on the boys. The little girls pretty much have to make do as best they can if they have a brother, because he usually would get most of the attention. Other than that, it's all pretty much the same as it varies per woman.

[el_ruso]

Soltero,

I do agree with you in a sense that most Latin boys I know are spoiled by their mothers, and I frankly envy them sometimes because my experience growing up was anything but being spoiled .  But as I said, you get a heads up if she already has a kid, and it could be good or bad, but you will not have to be guessing.

[soltero]

Soltero,

I do agree with you in a sense that most Latin boys I know are spoiled by their mothers, and I frankly envy them sometimes because my experience growing up was anything but being spoiled .  But as I said, you get a heads up if she already has a kid, and it could be good or bad, but you will not have to be guessing.

I can understand what you are saying, but I am sure if she is a good person, she would probably be a good mother, so you can get your heads up without the child already having to be in the picture. You can observe how she treats anyone who may need her for that (caregiving) such as her parents, or a sick friend, or you for that matter. I don't plan on being an observer with my kids, so any slack she may have (which I hope is none) when it comes to raising OUR kids, I will be there to take up.

More power to you if you decide to marry a woman with kids. I can respect that...it just wouldn't be me.

[blockbuster]

Sol,

 Most latinas are very compassionate and sweet. Thst is why so many are not good at discipline especially with boys. many are way too soft and there will be a lot of arguments in the discipline dept even though the child is yours.  You never know how tolorant and prone to spoiling "her own child" . Looking at how she treats other people's kids is no indication, I have heard women complain about how rude some kids are. Then they have their own and totally oblivious to her little spawn and GOd forbid the husband tries to discipline!

I don't see having a child as black and white as others see it. I have a friend with a Thai wife who had a 6 year old when they married. This "daughter' is kind,sweet and helped raise the little ones. She was never disrespectful because the mother and husband never allowed that. He was given full discipline control. The girl is a gem and just graduated as a special Education teacher.

[el_ruso]

Sol,

I don't insist that everyone marries women with pre-existing children.  A woman could be great if she doesn't have children, and she could be a disaster if she has them, and vice versa.  One can't and shouldn't make a judgement without knowing the woman and her children. 

I just don't agree with the gist of the original post in this thread that a woman with a child is by default "unadvisable" and should be avoided like a bad desease.

[soltero]

El Ruso and Blockbuster, there is no right or wrong way to do anything that applies to everyone, especially where the heart is concerned. Personally, I hope everyone gets what they desire. I agree with you and disagree, as that is the nature of the randomness of amor.

El Ruso, congrats on garnering the award this month! You deserve it!  I thought this would have been Sean's month, as he laid out some very thought provoking posts, but you pulled it out in the end.

[el_ruso]

Sol, thanks.

the continued absence of DT is puzzling...

[william3rd]

Mr. DT is lurking. He has been on the site every day. His last site visit was at 12:43 this morning-1043PM PST last night.  You can check this by going to the member area and look at his profile. . . . .

[soltero]

Sol, thanks.

the continued absence of DT is puzzling...

El Ruso, You are welcome.

As far as Daytrader, I don't see his absence as being that puzzling. In fact, I expected him to sit this one out. This is just an objective opinion, and not an attack, but the guy seems to be someone used to being in control or enjoys thinking so. This isn't his thread, and there is no control here for him. The thread itself would place him on the defensive in any reply, and he does not appear (to me) to be the type of person that relishes that situation. If he replies at all given the fact that he will have to respond instead of make statements, he won't do it until he is sure that everyone else has had their say so that he can come as close as possible to appearing to make that statement. Also, the court of public opinion here does not appear to be in his favor. He can't relish that.  I doubt he will respond.

I hope this thread has not made him decide to go into lurking mode. He is just as interesting as Papi from an entirely different sociopsychological perspective...

[daytrader]

BogotaJim, thanks for your kind words, your analysis is right on - being a Daytrader one is extremely cognizant of risks, positives and benefits and open to getting good advice.  I have a number of years experience in some aspect of the latin culture (since I was a boy) and as a divorced man.  So issues that will or might occur are likely already experienced by me or expected. 

When things blow up, I usually am prepared in advance and already have a backup plan ready to go.  Most people are freaking out, I'm moving my backup files to the production server and getting back online momentarily (using a metaphor here). 

Both of us (Cali Diamond and I) have laid our cards on the table (in the first trip) and are in agreement on all major issues, particularly the children.  Being there 18 days on the second trip, all four of us were testing what "home" would feel like and the few issues that came up were expected and dealt with. 

There is absolute communication between Cali Diamond and I on the kids.  There were 5 or 6 times that an issue of some sort came up in the trip and the two of us (and sometimes the interpreter) had to clear the air.   There was even an 'all in the family' moment a few days before I left; everybody cried at some point (except the son- man of steel) -- all the cards were on the table and we all wanted this to work.  It was a very memorable experience I will cherish the rest of my life. 

Cali Diamond was holding back on the first trip, at the end of the second trip, she and I are at novia status but holding back announcing it for the kids' sake.  There are some mile markers that need to happen before summer, then when the kids are out of school the news will break - if everything is hunky dorry with the kids (assuming everything is perking along with me and Cali Diamond as well). 

The whole 'familia' thing is going to stay down in SA for the foreseeable future.  I don't want to expose the kids to the USA anytime soon.  Assuming marriage and adjustment of status occurs in 08 - Mom and me might hang in the usa (#2 honeymoon or whatever excuse) a little but not the kids for a while.  We like the family the way it is, and keeping everyone down in SA is fine with me and her. 

What really makes me confident this will work is communication is excellent at all times between everyone.  There is no ego..wow!  Cali Diamond has a PURE heart and she loves God.  Some may not understand this but IMO this really is huge.  She is very happy, not codependent, wants things to work very much and willing to work for it. She is working out daily, and has started english classes (a tutor comes to her).   

The biggest fear she has relayed to me since I have left is that the kids think I am going to forget about them.  They have made an emotional commitment to me and they are afraid I will blow them off.  This is new for them, I can understand their fears, so I speak to both children each week besides talking to Mom. 

I've always wanted a daughter and I think I have one, and she is maturing into a woman before my eyes just in the 3 months I've known her. We all share the same values, albeit different cultures, different languages.  The Son is picking up english fast. 

A lot of the common time the first week was me showing off how much espanol I learned and getting to use it; they were drilling me and I was drilling them in english.  One of the most precious moments of the whole trip was when Cali Diamond sat down next to me and opened my English/Spanish phrase book.  She worked really hard for an hour learning some phrases in english,  struggling with the pronunciation.  It was so cool having her a few inches from me working her brains out learning what I knew because she wanted the relationship.  In her actions  -  her heart and character has shown through big time.  I want many more of those sessions and can't wait for the next one! 

DayTrader

[daytrader]

Sean, it has been my experience that women are pretty much women.

--- wise words Soltero!  LOL

...also, thanks el_ruso for your rebuttals, I couldn't have said it better... Congrats on the Member Appreciation award, you deserve it! 

IMHO there are boundaries to comments, cuz others do not have first hand info and actual experience with the facts at hand.  But this is America and forum participants are entitled to...yadda..yadda..yadda...

DayTrader

[sean126]

Chris,
I hate to bother you, but I think I will need the WHOLE bottle now instead of just a double.
LOLOLOLOL....I need to learn to mind my own business.

[P Daddy]

IMHO there are boundaries to comments, cuz others do not have first hand info and actual experience with the facts at hand.  But this is America and forum participants are entitled to...yadda..yadda..yadda...

DayTrader

This coming from the same guy that said I liked to "re-cycle" women??  yadda...yadda...yadda

[daytrader]

I quote from the Cali Photo thread below.....

   
Re: PHOTOS - Of My Cali Diamond...
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2007, 05:50:43 PM »
   
Reply with
P Daddy - Just to reiterate, I am not inferring that you are into "recycling" young women; there are those that are, and many times this is their modus operandi.

DayTrader

[P Daddy]

Daytrader, your quote on the same thread as above.

Not seeing ONE couple, whether local or gringo in 1 month of staying down in Cali right down the street from UniCentro or Chipichape, I am dubious of your claims.  Going to soccer games and bullfights and not seeing a single example of this phenomenon in large stadiums -- I don't doubt you but I still consider your info dubious. --- a question comes to mind (and it's none of my business, but you gave the info)...why 60 trips [I assume business reasons for the most part] over 22 12 years and a guy of your experience is in a relationship for 16 months?   Are you willing to grow old with a gal, or are you into 'recycling' your ladies?  Maybe we have different values, I am into a lifetime commitment vs a guy recycling his babes every few years -- in which case this whole discussion doesn't apply to my thread.

It sure sounds like you were inferring this...You would have been better off just editing your post (along with your math error)...instead of posting that you weren't "inferring", although everyone who read it knew what you were "inferring"...

As I posted on that thread, I could care less what you thought (or think), because as you so eloquently stated on this thread, you know nothing about me and my experiences.

Daytrader, over the years I've learned to grow a thicker skin with my participation on these forums, and I recommend you do the same. And this "thicker" skin will definitely come in handy in the future when dealing with your Cali Diamond, her kids, and life in general in Colombia...

[Parlay Rey]

This thread has been interesting. On the one hand, I agree wholeheartedly with Soltero in that I would never date a woman with children--there are just too many unknown variables with which to deal. Doesn't mean that I think neither she nor the child are 'damaged goods'.

Switching tangents, whether or not things work out for Daytrader I will say one thing, it souds like he's pulling the trigger. That's one thing my father instilled in me: that the difference between a boy and a man is the ability to always make a decision, right or wrong; and to learn to live with the consequences.

Although he has come across as arrogant in the past, I respect his decision to pursue his dreams, and wish him the most positive outcome possible.

[daytrader]

I can see your point P Daddy, the earlier post (of the two) was inelegantly phrased, to say the least, I apologize.  I would also ask that you take my words literally and give me the benefit of the doubt on the 2nd post, a feeble attempt to correct the earlier insinuation.

I look forward to seeing the fruits of your "thicker skin" in future posts, and considering me a mere mortal, obviously imperfect at wordsmithing. 


MONTY PYTHON SEZ, ...And now for something completely different!"

Sean, I like the "Mrs. Sean126 #8"  photo the best!  WOW! If some power company could harness her outward glow, the energy crisis would be solved! 

DayTrader

[P Daddy]

Daytrader,

No need to apolgize, but I do accept it.  We'll put this one behind us...regarding me having a "thicker" skin in the future...well, I don't see where I've shown a thin skin lately...I even posted that what you wrote didn't offend me.   Hell, I've been on these sites for a number of years...I've had trolls impersonate me, post my business web-site, my real name & phone numbers, try to create rumors about my girlfriend, and post many libeous statements about me. I'm still here doing fine...nothing that they posted had any negative affect on me what's so ever...In fact I'm doing better than ever...

So, don't let the negative comments get under your skin too much...just concentrate on your lady and prepare yourself for some changes in your life...some will be good and some will be bad.  I'll tell you what, I never thought I'd EVER change myself for a women, but with my girl I've made some drastic changes in my personality and how I treat relationships...My girl sees this (it took awhile for me to change), and she appreciates me more now than ever...It's funny how I used to blame her for most of our problems.  As I posted before, most guys 40+ won't change (or can't) and thus the many failures...

Good luck!