ATM fraud

[drm64]

A word of warning to gringos using ATM machines while traveling in Colombia or leaving them with your novias to use. I have used them without incident until this last trip in December but somehow since Jan 12 someone has been able to gain access to my bank account through the ATM machine and put me $750 in the negative. Unfortunately, my bank will not credit me the debt as theft because it involves a debit card with a pin #. Their policy is if someone is getting into an account with access by pin, I must have been negligent with keeping my number secure. I have read somewhere, perhaps here, about fraud in Colombia and ATM machines. It's for real. Be careful. I am going to list here the location of the machines as this theif's access seems to be limited to these 2 locations.

B. Bogota Exito B
      and
CR 51 B CL 8

[Dan Las Vegas]

Which bank do you use?  My bank assured me that I would be covered in case of theft or fraud...perhaps I better double check with them, I'd hate to have someone access my account and clean it out. One of the ideas that I have seen on this forum is to open a second account and just use it for trips to colombia and have a card only for this account.  Thoughts anyone?

Dan

[valleydude]

I have a seperate account and I also have a couple of prepaid cards that I use. Yeah, I pay the fees. I just used the ATMs and pulled like 100 bucks a day and it cost me like 3-5 dollars each time.

"Oh my God! They got my prepaid card with 300 bucks on it."

For me, it is just worth the piece of mind and if something happens none of my personal info is in jeopardy.

VD

[doombug]

Their policy is if someone is getting into an account with access by pin, I must have been negligent with keeping my number secure. I have read somewhere, perhaps here, about fraud in Colombia and ATM machines. It's for real. Be careful. I am going to list here the location of the machines as this theif's access seems to be limited to these 2 locations.

Oh, hellllll no!

I really hope you won't settle for such a lame, first-tier brushoff as satisfactory resolution. Take this initial response to your problem (essentially, "blame the victim") and shop one step higher in the chain of command. Tell this next higher-up that, in an effort to uncover how you were duped, you discovered that--very likely--you were a victim of "skimming." (And that it's very difficult to be vigilent in securing your pin when a "trustworthy" teller, or "secure" ATM, is pilfering your damn PIN!) Furthermore, tell this bank official that if they can't be a little more sympathetic in their response to such cases of fraud (like maybe reimbursing a long-established customer such as yourself), then your next course of action will include one or more of the following: A) cancel your account; B) file a report at Rip-off Report.com C) forward a complaint to your state's AG; D) forward a complaint to the Federal Reserve; E) contact the media.

[I favor "D" above all others. Here's how to file a complaint against a bank.]

If you need ammo, cite the following:

Consumers have well-defined rights with respect to fraudulent electronic transfers, and should generally be able to obtain refunds with little hassle. The rights are spelled out in what's known as "Reg-E," or the Federal Reserve Board's Regulation E. The Fed was authorized to draw up the regulation by the Electronic Funds Transfer Act of 1979. The regulation covers all manner of transfers into and out of bank accounts outside of paper checks, including the use of debit cards. It does not cover credit card transactions.

Also:

When a debit card or other "acccess device" is lost [I cannot emphasize this enough, as yours was not lost], such as an online banking password, consumer liability is capped at $50 for those who notify banks within two business days. Consumers who notify the bank within 60 days have their liability capped at $500. After 60 days, if the consumer doesn't inform the bank, any charges which occur become the consumers' responsibility. [This next part is very significant, and should be your best defense:] If no access device [again, a debit card qualifies as such] is lost, and fraudulent charges mysteriously appear on a consumer's account, the liability clock begins when the bank notifies its customer of the activity, usually through regular monthly statements.

The quicker the bank is notified, the better. Reg-E says consumers can notify banks in person, by telephone, or in writing -- the notice is considered given, even if bank employees don't acknowledge receipt of it. A certified letter is probably the best bet; that way you have a copy in case the bank challenges you on the issue of timely notification.

Banks must investigate disputed charges within 10 days, and report results to the consumer within three days. Errors must be fixed within one day. If the investigation cannot be completed within 10 days, banks must issue a provisional credit to the consumer for the disputed amount, less $50.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11731365/ [Tab about 2/3's way down the page to find the info. I referenced above.]

And for the interest of the board:

Tips for protecting yourself against ATM fraud

1. Never write your Personal Identification Number (PIN) on your card or in your wallet. Memorize your PIN as soon as possible. Do not reveal your PIN to anyone not authorized to use the account.

2. Never use your date of birth, social security number, license number or street address as a PIN -- those are the first numbers a crook will try.

3. Don't throw away your ATM receipts at the ATM location. Keep them to reconcile your account, then dispose of them properly when you get home.

4. Always be aware of your surroundings when using the ATM. If it is late at night, try to use a machine that is well lit and avoid dark, remote locations.

5. Always make sure to retrieve your ATM card from the machine when the transaction is complete.

6. Be aware of the person behind you. Make sure no one can see you entering your PIN or how much money you withdraw.

7. Review your statement promptly to ensure all transactions are accurate. Report any discrepancies immediately.

8. Destroy old ATM cards immediately after receiving your replacement cards.

Screw big banks. Assumed negligence shouldn't precede customer service.

This is why I l-o-v-e credit unions!

Ciao, my home dawgs!

[P Daddy]

Doombug,

You are correct about "skimming"...these devices are VERY common in Colombia, especial in ATM's that are outside a building.  I make it a rule of thumb to only use ATM's in secure buildings such as shopping centers or supermarkets where there is security.  Never use an ATM in Colombia that is on the street.

[Fuzzyone]

A word of warning to gringos using ATM machines while traveling in Colombia or leaving them with your novias to use. I have used them without incident until this last trip in December but somehow since Jan 12 someone has been able to gain access to my bank account through the ATM machine and put me $750 in the negative. Unfortunately, my bank will not credit me the debt as theft because it involves a debit card with a pin #. Their policy is if someone is getting into an account with access by pin, I must have been negligent with keeping my number secure. I have read somewhere, perhaps here, about fraud in Colombia and ATM machines. It's for real. Be careful. I am going to list here the location of the machines as this theif's access seems to be limited to these 2 locations.

B. Bogota Exito B
      and
CR 51 B CL 8

   Did you use the ATMs in stores? Banks?... I used a ATM in downtown centro at a bank and after I used it the card was erased. I ended up having to have my daughter send me more money. While my wife was still in Barranquilla she did not have no problems with the card I gave her. One funny thing she told me while I was thee is if it can be done a Colombian will figure it out one way or another.

[KP2]

Skimming not only occurs in Colombia, but in most of Latin America as well. Brazil and Venezuela are notorious in SA. While CR, El Salvador, Nica, and Honduras its pretty common there as well. Lets not forget our friends south of the US border.

I would rather deal with the headaches and hassles of this skeme, than to ever go through the "millonario run" that is very common in Colombia.

[bundy_138]

KP2.....please explain what the "millonario run" is.  Not familiar with that term.

Bundy

[KP2]

The "millonario run" or el 'paseo millonario' is when you hail a taxi off the street and get mugged by the driver and accomplice. Plain and simple. They will force you to do various ATM withdrawls until you deplete your cash. It can occur anytime of day, but more frequently it happens at night close to midnight to run the two day gauntlet.

That is why it is very important to call dispatch for a cab, anywhere in LAm.

[Fuzzyone]

The "millonario run" or el 'paseo millonario' is when you hail a taxi off the street and get mugged by the driver and accomplice. Plain and simple. They will force you to do various ATM withdrawls until you deplete your cash. It can occur anytime of day, but more frequently it happens at night close to midnight to run the two day gauntlet.

That is why it is very important to call dispatch for a cab, anywhere in LAm.

  Never had a problem in Barranquilla with the taxis, I have flagged down plenty with no problem, but I did protect myself too. I did not get in the taxi with extra passengers I did not know, if the taxi driver looked like death warmed over forget. My wife one time flagged a taxi and would not get in, she told me later the driver did not look right and she was tacking no chances.

  I have heard of that problem in Cali and else where..

[bundy_138]

I've heard of that scam, but never that phrase.  That happens everywhere, even in the good ol' USA.

Bundy

[drm64]

Sorry guys. I inadvertenly ommitted two crucial facts. This took place in Barranquilla and the bank was Bank o Bogota. I was talking with my fiance last night and she told me similar things had happened to her sister and their roommate. Both have husbands that live in other cities but send them money. Both girls have used these atm's and have discovered money sent was not there. Sean126 has told me he has read about Bank o Bogota being under investigation for such impropriety.

I am not taking this lying down. I spoke with the bank here again today and plan on talking it as far as I have to to get some justice.

[Fuzzyone]

Sorry guys. I inadvertenly ommitted two crucial facts. This took place in Barranquilla and the bank was Bank o Bogota. I was talking with my fiance last night and she told me similar things had happened to her sister and their roommate. Both have husbands that live in other cities but send them money. Both girls have used these atm's and have discovered money sent was not there. Sean126 has told me he has read about Bank o Bogota being under investigation for such impropriety.

I am not taking this lying down. I spoke with the bank here again today and plan on talking it as far as I have to to get some justice.

   I think that was the bank downtown centr we used that ended up earsing our card. We never went back there again. Could afford to lose the use of my card again.

[KP2]

Never had a problem in Barranquilla with the taxis, I have flagged down plenty with no problem, but I did protect myself too.  I have heard of that problem in Cali and else where..

Yep, its much more common in Bogota and Cali with some caution in Medellin. Taxis in BAQ and CTGA will try to rip you off in cabfare, but your relatively safe on the coast. Anyways, I would always call for a cab service, you can never be too careful.