Latinos - Not always in the know

[papi]

I have stated before that sometimes Colombians are clueless. Today, I went to one of my favorite cafe's for some delicious Costa Rican cafe and struck up a conversation with a beautiful young "Nica" (chica from Nicaragua). Knowing that well over 90% of the Colombians and Nicaraguans in CR are pros, I thought it might be fun to pick her brain a little on her life in CR. Turns out she has a young Tico (Costa Rican) novio, he is 26 and making a good living. He is paying for her apartment and bills while he is living with mommy and is completely clueless regarding her profession. She told me that he would kill her if he found out. I asked her why she worked. Her response: her novio won't pay for her school...go figure. I feel bad for her novio. Go with Eyes Wide Open...even the latinos get fooled

[Cachaco]

No argument with your point that even Latinos can be fooled by chicas
However, I have to respectfully disagree with your statistics. I visited CR not too long ago, and while no doubt there are many Colombian and Nica prostitutes, by no means do they add up to 90% of the women from these countries living in CR.
I met a number of Nicas specially, working all kinds of menial jobs. Colombians too, but they tended to be more educated and have better jobs.
The Ticos that I talked too, had nothing bad to say about Colombians in general. They did not speak too kindly of the Nicas, but that is because there are apparently hundreds of thousands of them living illegally in CR, and their complaints were similar to those of many Americans with respect to Mexican immigrants....

[Ray]

...their complaints were similar to those of many Americans with respect to Mexican immigrants.

Just to clarify on behalf of those many complaining Americans...

The complaint isn't with Mexican immigrants or any other LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, but with the ILLEGAL ALIENS who have no respect for our laws or our borders, whether they be Mexican, Iraqi, or Canadian.

The only reason I bring this up is because there are a "few" members here who like to bend the truth by intimating that anyone who is opposed to ILLEGAL immigration or amnesty for ILLEGAL ALIENS is an "immigration restrictionist", or doesn't like Mexicans, which is just pure hogwash... 

Welcome to the forum Cachaco...

[Cachaco]

Ray, I should have been clearer in my post, and specified ILLEGAL immigrants, and should not have singled out Mexicans, because illegal aliens come to the US from all over the world. Of course Americans have a right to express concerns about the effects of illegal immigration, and that does not necessarily make them anti-immigrant or anti-foreign.
Anyway, I'm drifting off the topic here. The point I was trying to make in a very convoluted way was that out of hundreds of thousands of Nicaraguans in CR, and assuming about half of them are women, there's no way that over 90% of these women are prostitutes 

[papi]

Hola Cachaco, I understand your points. Here are my thoughts for clarification:

1. 90% of the young Colombians and Nicas in San Jose may be pros. I have met some non-pros but if you go to certain clubs in San Jose and Panama for that matter, the majority are Colombians

2. Colombians are generally not liked in San Jose. Latinos can be racists/elitists and comment that Colombians bring prostitution (and with bad hard core attitudes) and crime. I would like to also add that folks say the Colombians are the most beautiful and ask me often if there is something in the water.

My numbers are not based on any science and just observations in the street and comments I often hear on my many trips to costa rica.

[papi]

Cachaco, keep in mind that Ticos are not going to be frank with you - since you are from Colombia. I don't generalize but again often hear this stuff here about Colombians. On the other hand, I often hear Colombians make remarks about  blacks and Latinos from other countries.

[G Bala]

Cachaco,

Immigration restrictionists such as former House Republicans Reps. JD Hayworth (R-Az) and John Hostettler (R-Ind) and "others" who agree with them, who were viscerally opposed to Comprehensive Immigration Reform (CIR) labeling it "blanket no-holds-barred amnesty" for everybody and offering instead what was perceived
as anti-illegal immigrant "hate legislation", got wacked in the last election by a more broad-minded and culturally compassionate moderate Voting electorate.



Meanwhile, tonight's Bush State of the Union Address, and the Democratic-controlled Congress now agree in principle with CIR... stay tuned...

Don't worry, those "liberal" wacko Latino lawyers at AILA and in Congress will take it easy on those immigration restrictionists and not go "too crazy" with CIR...

[el_ruso]

Papi,

your perception might be based on you going to "certain" clubs.  Costa-Rica is the most stable and prosperous country in the region, has been a magnet to refugees from neighboring countries.  I have friends from Salvador whose family was able to get to CR, and they were NOT pros.  My guess is when you go to the aforementioned "certain" clubs you will find perhaps a very large number of pros there.  The same as if you go to "certain" clubs in Colombia. 

[Fuzzyone]

Hola Cachaco, I understand your points. Here are my thoughts for clarification:

1. 90% of the young Colombians and Nicas in San Jose may be pros. I have met some non-pros but if you go to certain clubs in San Jose and Panama for that matter, the majority are Colombians

2. Colombians are generally not liked in San Jose. Latinos can be racists/elitists and comment that Colombians bring prostitution (and with bad hard core attitudes) and crime. I would like to also add that folks say the Colombians are the most beautiful and ask me often if there is something in the water.

My numbers are not based on any science and just observations in the street and comments I often hear on my many trips to costa rica.

  Papi

    Do you have any real facts to back up this statment about Colombians in Panama? Honest if that is all you are looking for that is all you will find. It is no different here if spend all your time on the strip then you would say other certain minorites here in the U.S. are all pros.

[Nicks]

Never been to ticolandia, but in panama, if you see a 20 to 30 yo colombiana, its close to 90% she is a full time working girls, a part time working girl, or any other version of Pay for Play girl..sometimes they are ^models^ doing some advertisment gig, but.. in the end they either fall into being call girls, or what we here call bizneras..that is..a girl that do it when she needs some extra cash, usually have only 2 to 3 fixed clients, like sugger daddies..colombianas almost NEVER walk the streets, thats for the dominicanas, and the ugglier local girls.

nicks

[Cachaco]

Don Papi,
thanks for the clarification. I think we can agree that our views on this subject are going to be very different because we did not frequent the same places (I didn't visit the clubs in San Jose), or speak to the same people. Of course you may be right in that the Ticos may have suppressed their true opinions about Colombians when talking to me, but I didn't always tell them I was Colombian...
Anyway, neither one of us has any hard data to back what we are saying, only our perceptions and opinions. I think we can leave it at that.


Mr. Bala,
I hope I didn't come across as being anti-immigration. I would never side with people who would have kept me out of the US if they could. On the other hand, I can see how unrestricted immigration is not necessarily 100% beneficial to this country.  The answer has to be somewhere in the middle of those extremes.

[zack]

 "90% of the young Colombians and Nicas in San Jose may be pros. I have met some non-pros but if you go to certain clubs in San Jose and Panama for that matter, the majority are Colombians"

Papi, you shouldn't make such derogatory comments about Colombia unless you have facts to support it. I would bet you my paycheck that the above statement is not true. You always have a melt-down if someone makes accusations about you without factual support, but it's O.K. for you to slam Colombia without facts?? Newbies who read your comments may sadly decide against this endeavor without realizing that they just turned down a great opportunity to meet quality women for lifetime marriage.

[Ray]

Ray, I should have been clearer in my post, and specified ILLEGAL immigrants, and should not have singled out Mexicans, because illegal aliens come to the US from all over the world. Of course Americans have a right to express concerns about the effects of illegal immigration, and that does not necessarily make them anti-immigrant or anti-foreign.

That's what I thought you meant Cachaco and thanks for clarifying.

My real concern was with the standard baloney you get from the left on the topic of illegal immigration.

Immigration restrictionists such as former House Republicans Reps. JD Hayworth (R-Az) and John Hostettler (R-Ind) and "others" who agree with them, who were viscerally opposed to Comprehensive Immigration Reform (CIR) labeling it "blanket no-holds-barred amnesty" for everybody and offering instead what was perceived
as anti-illegal immigrant "hate legislation"...

Now there is a perfect example of the nonsense you get from the Democrats and the left whenever the subject of illegal immigration control comes up.

Whenever a Republican legislator tries to do anything to stem the tide of ILLEGAL ALIENS flooding across out borders, he and his proposed legislation is immediately labeled with the standard Democrat mantra… “hateful”, “mean-spirited”, “xenophobia”, “restrictionist”, “hardliner”, “anti-immigration”, “racist”, etc., etc., etc…     

Calling it “comprehensive immigration reform” instead of what it really is… AMNESTY for ILLEGALS, won’t fool the public for long. “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.” (AL)

         

[papi]

Zack, again my numbers are not based on any data. Possibly Doom can provide some hard stats. Nicks lives in Panama and seems to concur with my assessment. What I can tell you is that many young ladies from Colombia leave the country to ply their craft in Central America principally for two reasons

1. Earn dollars instead of pesos
2. Avoid running into family

They can make a lot more money in CA and often send much of it home. In fact, I arrived in panama last night and I was enjoying a fine cuban cigar and rum when i happened to meet a wealthy sports figure looking for some play with a calena he just met. Yet, he didn´t speak spanish so i offered assitance, $250 para todo la noche....i guess my negotiating skills are slipping or this place has gotten pricey. I did however work a deal with the airport taxi

[el_ruso]

Papi, just a few observations:

1. If someone approached me to negotiate a price with a prostitute, I would send them to hell.  Both.  WHERE exactly were you when he approached you 

2. I know a few members have been banned from this forum for discussing prostitution.  Strangely enough it is OK for you.  Just curious as to why you are so special.  Please share.

3. Suggesting that prostitution is "their craft" ('their' being young colombianas') not only is extremely derogatory and wrong (and as Zack has pointed out might create a wrong perception on the part of unexperienced people).  It also indicates the lifestyle and experience you have of Colombia, which is pathetic.  In fact, majority of colombianas have values superior to that of american or european women, are very loving and nice people, despite their poverty.   People like you however have 0 morals and 0 shame, and I actually hope no normal colombian girl would ever get railroaded by you.  Fortunately, they seem to have a good sense to them.

[papi]

Ruso, i am not going to respond to your continued attacks and also not going to pass judgement on a wealthy sports guy asking me for help. Dan suggested earlier that we setup a Friday Fight Night but i´d prefer to enjoy a nice cuban cigar and the eye candy in panama even though Soltero promised to pop the popcorn. I am just going to press the Report to Moderator button instead. que tenga un buena dia

[Dan]

2. I know a few members have been banned from this forum for discussing prostitution.  Strangely enough it is OK for you.  Just curious as to why you are so special.  Please share.

I'll address it. First - I am not so sure there is ANYONE who is currently "banned" for violating the board ToS prohibiting discussion of P4P.

Where I draw the line is - posts intended to direct traffic to P4P. If someone posts casually that they saw what appeared to be a large proportion of pros somewhere - that is entirely different than someone saying, "Hey - get down to XYZ cafe in NYC. There are some great pros plying their trade there!"

As always, there are not clear lines dividing the two - and also as always, PL seems to have more than its fair share of folks who seek to find the boundaries of ANY restriction. The judgment is left to me and catz and Patrick, Hoda and Jeff S - to make the call.

Simple rule is - we are NOT a community focused on the topic of prostitution of P4P. Those topics which revolve around that are NOT welcome here and will be deleted, and the members warned.

3. Suggesting that prostitution is "their craft" ('their' being young colombianas') not only is extremely derogatory and wrong (and as Zack has pointed out might create a wrong perception on the part of unexperienced people).  It also indicates the lifestyle and experience you have of Colombia, which is pathetic.  In fact, majority of colombianas have values superior to that of american or european women, are very loving and nice people, despite their poverty.   People like you however have 0 morals and 0 shame, and I actually hope no normal colombian girl would ever get railroaded by you.  Fortunately, they seem to have a good sense to them.

Except for your final sentence, you were doing great. You transitioned from a well-reasoned and articulate defense of your position into a personal attack on another member.

Not only does that sort of thing undermine your basis for your defense (raises credibility questions as to your 'foile' for your attack), it also violates the ToS.

You are a valued member here - and I genuinely like the vast majority of your posts - and have given you votes of Appreciation (deserved) in the past. Please keep the personal attacks/insults out of your posts.

- Dan

[P Daddy]

I would venture to say that 90% is a little exagerrated...not that I have any figures, but I must be consistent here regarding generalizations.  90% means if there are 1000 Colombian women in Panama (I'm sure there are alot more), then 900 are prostitutes.  Let's be realistic here.  My girlfriend did some modeling in Panama a few years back (before we met)...some of the stereotypers will then say "Oh, P Daddy, your girl is a pre-pago who went to Panama to make some cash"...Of course I will be offended...Papi, drop into any store that sells haircare supplies and you'll see her pictures on the box for a brand of hair treatment. It was one of her modeling assignments while there...  I picked up a few boxes when we were there in October as momentos (plus everytime I look at them it eases my mind that my girl is NOT a pre-pago...LOL )

[papi]

I think you will find that the above subject matter is often described by scholars as the oldest profession in the world. It is not derogatory, only the facts.


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
craft    noun 1. an art, trade, or occupation requiring special skill, esp. manual skill: the craft of a mason. 
2. skill; dexterity: The silversmith worked with great craft. 
3. skill or ability used for bad purposes; cunning; deceit; guile. 
4. the members of a trade or profession collectively; a guild. 

[papi]

Pdaddy, i don´t know if 90% is an exaggeration or not. Nicks has lived in CA for almost 10 years and again seems to concur with my assessment. Here is what i do know

1. CA is a beautiful place to explore for both vacation and finding a wife

2. There are many pros working in Central America (CA)

3. Both gringos and latinos can be fooled

4. Many young colombianas travel to CA to ply their trade

5. If a man meets a young woman from Colombia in CA, it is possible she was or is active in the oldest profession in the world.

[Dan]

I think you will find that the above subject matter is often described by scholars as the oldest profession in the world. It is not derogatory, only the facts.


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
craft    noun 1. an art, trade, or occupation requiring special skill, esp. manual skill: the craft of a mason. 
2. skill; dexterity: The silversmith worked with great craft. 
3. skill or ability used for bad purposes; cunning; deceit; guile. 
4. the members of a trade or profession collectively; a guild. 

This post is ON the line and may be crossing it.

There are few fools here Papi - and everyone knows the context and the connotation (definition notwithstanding).

Veer this thing back on course or it WILL get deep-sixed - and do NOT test me with feeling around the edges of the limitations. It pisses me off - and you are old enough to know better.

- Dan

[papi]

Dan, with all due respect, I stand by my post which was in response to the statement that the word Craft was derogatory when in fact there is a wide body of scholarly work using the same definitions. If you wish to deep-six the post, it is your sandbox. Frankly, while i happen to like you and your efforts at controlling the attacks/insults, I have larger worries and frankly don´t give a damn my dear.

[el_ruso]

referring to young colombianas as prostitutes, that prostitution is "their craft", that young colombianas = prostitutes is offensive, derogatory, ignorant and manifestly demonstrates the type of activities you habitually engage in, and the type of people you associate with.

word "craft" is by itself not derogatory.  you know full well what I meant.  and it is cute that you are now writing to Dan that you "like him" whereas less than a month ago you called him "dan the ban man" elsewhere.  you can add integrity to your list of virtues.

Dan, this is not a gratutious attack, just clarification.  I don't expect that the so-called "papi" will change.  However, this is a public forum, and a casual visitor or a "newbie" might get a very wrong impression of colombia and its women (or of this forum) from this guy.  

[bundy_138]

Ok Papi...I usually do not disagree with you, but that statement was WAY off base! 

"5. If a man meets a young woman from Colombia in CA, it is possible she was or is active in the oldest profession in the world."

WTF??  A very off the wall, crazy statement.


Bundy

[zack]

Papi,

I'm not attacking you but you are really grasping for straws to defend yourself. That's like saying "Murdering people is a serial killer's craft, the dictionary says that the word 'craft' is not derogatory and hence his actions are not derogatory".

With all due respects that is one of the most ludicrous defenses I have ever heard.