Scores for being stabbed, shot and held for ransom in Cartagena, Medellin, Cali

[NorthernLion]

I have tried to read all I could find on safety and security in the dear pais of Colombia and I still do not have a completely clear picture.
For instance I have been speaking with a 47 year old attorney in Medellin and she assures me that except for a few ghettos on the outskirts Medellin is as safe as safe can be.  Now I mention her age and occupation to note that this is not some 19 year old kid living in a dreamworld trying to convince me to come down and be with her.  That said I am sure she is completely clueless about what it means to actually live in a country like Colombia when you are a gringo who doesn't speak the language.  I mean I have read other posts that say if your going to Cali you better start off with a hired gun/guide at your side because any false step and your a dead man in this modern retake of the wild west.

I realize how hard it can be for some people to give an adequate encapsulation of safety for a place.  People tend to say things like you need to be alert and keep a good head on straight and as true as those statements are, and need to be oft repeated, they don't tell you much about whether you are walking into an environment like Baghdad circa 2003 or the mall of America on Easter Sunday.

Maybe the best I can ask for is compare and contrast.  For example I know quite a selection of American cities as well as Rio and Buenos Aires very well.
I can tell you that Buenos Aires is a very safe city even for a foreigner.  For all the central neighbourhoods that make up the main city area (say ten by miles by ten miles) you can walk around almost any street any time of the day or night and not be anything more than alert.  For one or two main avenues you don't even have to be alert and you can stumble home after obviously having had a few and be fairly worry free.  Basically I would prefer to walk around a large swath of BA in the middle of the night than I would a car centric western city like Dallas or Los Angeles. 

Now on the other hand Rio de Janeiro is a freaking war zone.  It is hard to use hyperbole to describe how unsafe this city is.  It has gigantic sections that even a fully armed combat SWAT squad would fear to tread in the middle of the day.  And these areas are right next to some of the richest neighbourhoods so you can step into one or have someone step out of one any hour any day.  SWAT may avoid sections of the city but the police in general avoid policing.  I have seen one man chase another with a lead pipe and the tourist police cop stand on the corner looking to see if there was a tourist he could rob.  The police in Rio are more likely to rob you than ever apprehend a criminal. 
Living in Rio is living in near constant fear of death.  You have a few hours in major traffic congested sections during the day when and where you can relax but at night going out anywhere by cab or foot is a roll of the dice.  You want to live in Rio and actually go out and do things and not live like a prisoner ?  well you are probably going to have at least one adrenalin soaked fear story to tell per month.  By being a gringo you are going to have a big bullseye on your back but even the locals live in fear in Rio or they soon learn to.
If someone tells you they lived in Rio and think the city is safe they are either a person with the living habits of an 80 year old social security retire (even that person would be lucky as home invasions in even the richest slices of Rio are increasingly common) or someone you should take to vegas. 
The women of Brazil are so incredibly fun, free and hot that it makes putting your life on the line to be with them worth it but the men of Brazil almost balance out the scales by being so nefarious.  In general this applies as if a brazilian guy isn't trying to rob you he's trying to scam you.  I have never been anywhere where I loved the women as much and hated the men as much as Rio de Janeiro. 

My question therefore is who has actually lived in the cities of Cartagena, Barranquila, Bogota, Medellin and Cali who can give first hand accounts of what these places are like for a gringo who is not good with his spanish as to be able to score them.
(From what I can gather Cartagena has a tourist section that is really safe for anyone but a place like Cali is for even a fluent spanish speaker almost as bad as Rio.)   

Overall safety scores my safety scores for cities I know would be
London - 100 (never had an inkling of worry I was going to be flashed a gun or a knife - I mean the cops don't even have guns largely because they don't really need them.  Getting drunk in the streets is practically a national sport and not a cause of concern you'll become a huge target)
Manhattan - 97   (NYC as a whole is obviously not going to be as high but there really is no reason to walk around sections of queens at 3 am Manhattan is what most people consider NYC to be and Manhattan is no longer the 80's mean streets)
Buenos Aires - 82 (the great bulk of the city that anyone would want to go to at any time of the day or night is quite safe and even walking alone at night you are not immediately identifiable as a gringo)
Dallas - 65 (entirely a car city.  You don't walk in this city and if you do you better know where you are.  City has tons of safe suburbs and sections but its a hodgepodge and anyone on the street is a target)
Washington DC - 60 (really nice sections where you can be completely at ease but most of DC is a slum and there are clubs and parties in some shady areas)
Los Angeles - 60 (the ultimate car city.  So big that no one truly knows the city.  You can walk down a section of Sunset and Hollywood any time of the night but any other street always makes you a little nervous.  If you are not in car with a full tank of gas you can never feel confident in LA at night)
Rio de Janeiro - 0  (likely the most dangerous city in the world for an individual traveler though apparently South Africa has some metropolitan areas that give it a run for its money.  If you do have money you will be running in Rio de janeiro.  Favelas are abutted next to upperclass highrises such that someone's ten million dollar penthouse overlooks his neighbour's ten dollar tin shack.  Kids , like little [snip]ing kids, really do run around with machine guns.  Local girls will start crying in a cab when the driver takes a turn to stop for gas because they think they are being taken to where they can be gangraped.  If you are a gringo truly living in Rio for a year you'll be lucky if the police don't try to rob you let alone any of the street criminals *only worth a stay because of the amazing amazing women of Brazil). 

I would really like if someone could give scores for the cities of Colombia and any other latin cities.  I don't want to return to always looking over your shoulder life in Rio but if the women in Cali are like the women in Rio I may consider it. 

[Woody]

Overall safety scores my safety scores for cities I know would be
London - 100 (never had an inkling of worry I was going to be flashed a gun or a knife - I mean the cops don't even have guns largely because they don't really need them.  Getting drunk in the streets is practically a national sport and not a cause of concern you'll become a huge target)

Los Angeles - 60 (the ultimate car city.  So big that no one truly knows the city.  You can walk down a section of Sunset and Hollywood any time of the night but any other street always makes you a little nervous.  If you are not in car with a full tank of gas you can never feel confident in LA at night)

Is this a joke?
You gave London a score of 100? I've been there and I would give London, at most, a 90 on your scale. Then again, I would give my city, Colorado Springs a 90 as well. I would give downtown Memphis a 2 at night.

As for Hollywood, have you actually been to that cesspool? Screw walking that strip at night. I felt much safer walking around fricking Prado in Medellin at night than on Hollywood Blvd.

As for Cali, yeah, the security situation in the surrounding area is not the best from what I have heard, but the city itself is ok in general. I don't think anyone has ever compared any section of or surrounding area of Cali to the Favelas.

It really goes back to the common sense factor: Stupid [snip] happens because of stupid actions. Don't be stupid and most likely nothing bad will happen.

I rate my own city here in the states as a 90 or so. I would directly compare the security situation in Medellin to Denver. Maybe an 85 or so.

[bcc_1_2]

Noooo Reservations... Colombia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rNL9aNND_A&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeL773ekGd0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0GsEfSsQeg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvvpPdP8WOI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BekBAWksSZY&feature=related

[Jeff S]

When you say the name of a city - there are always good parts and bad parts. In East or South LA, you might be OK before 3:00 pm, but after that, you're on your own, yet I live less than 30 minutes from there in one of the top 5 safest cities in the US, with a great night and restaurant scene. A broken car window here warrants newspaper coverage and about the worst trouble people get into is drinking in public - yet a few miles away is an area that if you turn down the wrong alley in gangbanger central, you're not likely to make it out in one piece. There are dozens and dozens of both kinds of places in what most people think of "LA"

I also can't believe you gave London a 100 - Maybe back in the 1970s, but today, you're 6 times more likely to get mugged in London than New York. I do agree NY (Manhattan) is far better than it was back in the 70s and 80s, though.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/7400372/True-scale-of-violent-crime-rise-revealed.html

Every city I've been to has its rough parts and its safe parts. Even Japan, the bastion of zero crime is getting it's rough edges.

What I'm saying is that it's not the place in general so much as where in the place, what kinds of hours you keep, the kind of things you do, and always do you like like a victim, that makes you more likely to be the target of street crime.

[Dan Las Vegas]

I can tell you this, I feel far safer in Medellin than I do in Washington DC.  Medellin has its problems, there are areas in which no sane person should venture, but like all cities there are areas in which you do not go.  Use common sense, pay attention to your surroundings and don't walk around  at night by yourself if you don't know the area.  No guarantees but you should be fine as long as you don't do stupid things.

[robert angel]

There are few, if any places that are immune to crime, substance abuse and other societal problems. In areas of the western USA--in wide open areas with small towns, there is crack cocaine and methamphetamine trouble and even gangs. I'm talking Montana and Wyoming, among others. No, it's not as common as it is in larger metro inner city areas, but it's out there.

You can read US Govt, State Dept reports and corporation reports on various countries and get the wrong idea. The best offense is a good defense--always being aware of your surroundings and trying to work up a 'sixth sense' for any possible dangers--and nowadays, that goes for just about anyplace you can be.

My parents used to live in a swank Detroit neighborhood called Palmer Woods, which had it's own security force. You never saw riff raff in there. But a quarter of a mile away is a Chaldean Arabic neighborhood, where if you weren't from there and you passed through on foot, badddd things would most certainly happen to you.


The first time I went to Mindanao, Philippines, I was scared big time. The US State Dept and corporate security reports and their traveler's advisories made me think I was quite likely going to literally lose my head if I wasn't careful. I traveled over a pretty wide area there and generally felt safer than I do in my own US city.


Sure there are places in Mindanao that I would never, never go--but I know that Americans, and in some areas even Christains, are just plain unwelcome there. It's just sad that the whole rather large island gets a bum rap as being totally dangerous.

Trying to put a score on a whole nation for safety is kind of ridiculous, I think. Places like Jolo Island, Mindanao are so crazy dangerous that I couldn't chart them, while in Davao City, where their solution to repeat criminals (theft, drugs, etc) is 45 caliber bullet through the head. I could walk the streets at 3 AM alone, stupid drunk, with my wallet hanging half way out and I don't think I'd be bothered.

[eddie316]

Honestly I have had more fear in Los Angeles than in Colombia. I will give a my opinion on this matter, but take it for what it is worth, everyone will have diferent experiences in diferent cities that will influence their opinions.

Where I grew up in smalltown USA 90
Current top 30 metro areas USA 90
New York 80
Chicago 80
Los Angeles 75
Barranquilla 80
Cartagena 85
Bogota 85
Never been to Cali or Medillin so I can't give a personal opinion on them. You know I read about the crime rates in Colombia and compared them to the US and although the murder rate was higher in Colombia all the other major crimes were higher in the states. 

[NorthernLion]

Ah man I forgot how much fun message boards can be. 
Starts off with Woody inquiring whether I am being serious in giving London a 100 "is this a joke" and then he argues it should maybe be a 90 which is about as close to splitting hairs as it comes (by the way really liked your trip report Woody and I felt your description of your security scare gave me an idea of how much someone is actually on pins and needles cause "gringo" to you translated into "I better boot it" as you automatically assumed/worried it might be a bad situation coming your way -- that tells me how you were feeling walking around in the middle of the day in Colombia).  And actually I do not know London well at all but I gave it a 100 because I have never felt safer in as large a city the few weeks I did spend there -- and something tells me its murder rate is just a tad lower than Rio's. 

I really tired to avoid the main thing coming out.  I figured I would preemptively agree that you can never hear too much or too often about how you should be alert and self-aware in any major city but it didn't stop those words of wisdom from raining down (hey I did say you couldn't hear it too much or too often lol). 

Okay, sure, yes it often depends on what you do and how you behave but the security of the place in large measure controls what you do and how you behave. 

While there are bad people and good people everywhere the argument that all cities have crime and all cities are dangerous is largely a myth probably made by someone who hasn't had to make tough security choices about where to live.  Even during the day most of Rio is off limits to anyone who doesn't live in that particular neighbourhood.  Again there are large sections of Rio where there is no policing - absolutely zero policing - and the police that are in other sections largely do not do their job.  Bad policing makes a difference - zero policing most certainly does.  To say that this still translates into all cities having good and bad sections is ridiculous.  The concerns the people of Montana and Wyoming have about gangs in not the same concerns the people of Rio have about gangs and to compare the security of living anywhere in Montana with the best of Rio would fare very badly for Rio (well Barra de Tijuca is actually quite safe but it is too far out to be a good place to live as a visitor).  I do not think there is anyplace immune to crime but there are also places where there are no laws besides the rule of a gun and I don't know how much a city like Cali is the former or the latter.   

Basically sometimes a good head on your shoulders doesn't help.  For example I was on a bus in southeast Rio to go back to where I was living in Leme.  There was a Carnival parade that decided to block the road.  Knowing that it would be hours before the party finished up the bus driver decided everyone gets off the bus and into the middle of who knows where (I certainly did not) cause it wasn't his problem and he gets off work in two hours.  Suddenly I am a Gringo on some dirt road surrounded by favelas with no idea of where to even go to try call or grab transportation out. 

I do not want to sound ungrateful or dickish to anyone offering advice but I also want to push for as much information as I can from those that know something before I hit the ground to possibly avoid a knife in my belly or gun in my face.     

Having "common sense" and "not being stupid" can often be translated into the need to be invisible because if you are seen for who you are completely screwed.  "Common sense" often means that when someone like Woody hears "gringo" called out it translates into "run" in his brain because the camouflage has not worked and you are now a target.  I guess what I am looking for to know is how invisible do you have to be in these cities from the people that have lived in them. 
What percent can you as a gringo be who and what you are and stay alive?
In how much of say Medellin if you hear someone call out "gringo" does that mean you should start running cause you have been spotted.  Our there sections of the city in the main areas where a person would live where you can be spotted for who and what you are and not have to worry about being stabbed in consequence?   

Maybe the best summation I am hoping for is the percentage of a city where I can wear my hat.  Though a NorthernLion originally at heart I am now and forever a Texan.  This means that my hat goes with me wherever I go cause it is a part of who and what I am.  Texas will always be a big part of who I am and I don't like to hide that as much as possible.  That being said I obey common sense by and large and when I was living in Rio I would almost never do something like wear my hat outside because it caused too much pandemonium.  Basically to wear a cowboy hat in the near entirety of Rio would be the equivalent of taping hundred dollar bills on ones body and walking naked down the average street in Mogadishu.  Almost everywhere during the day and absolutely everywhere at night to wear my hat in Rio would have caused a swarm of men to run miles to come and stab me.  A city like BA had a decent amount of places and streets even at night I could wear it and I liked that alot because I do not like to hide who I am.   

Basically I don't like how using common sense has become code for the neighbourhoods and city sections where those that live and travel through them will kill anyone who stands out and looks different so you better use common sense and be completely invisible if you are someone who stands out and looks different. 

I often do accede to the demands of logic and try to be invisible but it is not my nature so I am wondering how much I have to discard who I am to keep blood in my body in various Colombian cities. 

Once again I thank any and all who offer any wisdom on this topic - well maybe not the guy who posted ten Youtube videos instead of just a link and an explanation - as certainly it is an important one for everyone.  Not trying to get anyone pissed off here (except you Youtube guy me and you behind the ChuckECheese on main at 6pm!)
I just hope I can actually on occasion wear my hat in Colombia.  You see it is hard for a true Texas man to never be allowed to put on his hat outside his home because it just ain't "common sense" to wear it where so many knives and guns will instantly get pointed its way. 

Also I look real [snip]ing good in my hat and the women absolutely dig it tudo el mundo

 

   


 

[Dan Las Vegas]

As for the chances of you having something happen while wearing your hat, who knows, roll the dice if you wish, you might be lucky or you could crap out.

¡Buena suerte!

[Woody]

Here is the thing. I don't blend in, period. I never will. I will always stick out like a sore thumb, no matter where I go in Colombia and now matter what I wear. I am just over six feet tall with a 48" chest and a 38" waist. I WILL stick out. I am pretty sure that I could wear a 10 gallon and it make absolutely no difference in my personal security situation. I wouldn't, but I don't wear hats in general(I do that enough in my job). I do not blend in, period. I just accept that and use it to my advantage in picking up chicks. That said, I think I do have one advantage, people generally don't want to [snip] with me. Sure they know a group of three could take me down, but who wants to be the first guy and get a broken jaw for the troubles?

As for the run instinct kicking in when I heard "hey gringo," well, that would be the same effect as me walking around Denver and hearing "hey whitey." Hell, I'm pretty sure it would scare me more if I heard it in Denver.

Whenever I was closer to Parque Lleras or Poblado I would see other gringos a mile away. Not hard to spot. Hawaiian print shirts, khaki shorts, and sandals make it really obvious, that is before we get to skin color and facial features.

[utopiacowboy]

You want a safe place. In the little town in South Texas where I lived on a ranch for 10 years we did not even have a lock on the door. You couldn't lock the house even if you wanted to. Always left the keys in the ignition in the truck in the driveway. It's straight out of the '50s.

Every paisa will tell you their city (Medellin) is absolutely safe. It's not until you've been there a while that you hear the stories (from my wife) of 4 people in her building being kidnapped or the time she was on a bus in the city that was hijacked at gunpoint and everyone in it (except her) robbed. Or the time she was in a car and the driver accidentally cut someone off only to have the other car's passengers chase them firing gunshots at them. I could go on and on. Only a Colombian would describe a death as an accident when some sicarios (assassins on a moto) missed their intended target and killed someone else by mistake.

When I first went to Medellin 2003 there were 6000 homicides a year and it's now about 2000 or so but on the rise. Unfortunately the AUC narco king who was keeping order in the city was arrested and extradited to the US so homicides have been on the rise as the various factions fight for power. One thing to remember in Medellin is that the higher up the mountainsides you go the WORSE the neighborhood (opposite of North America). The one exception to this is El Poblado in the southeast part of the city, an excellent neighborhood which does go up the hillsides. I would not send a gringo to Medellin with poor Spanish skills who does not have anyone there to guide him.  

[NorthernLion]

Utopiacowboy why was everyone on the bus that your wife was also on robbed except for her???  "everyone it it (except her) robbed"
Why would they rob an entire bus except your wife sitting in one of the rows.  Either she was in on it, holding a grenande with no pin in it or she was buck naked are about the only kinda options I can think of but I am curious as to what the real reason could be/is

Your description of how the typical Paisa sees their "safe" city reminds me of the thong in their eyes view of Rio many have.  One guy told me that Rio was "absolutely safe man" and all he could even think of as slightly troubling that happened to him "the last week" was that he got robbed at knife point on the beach and had a broken bottle thrust against his windpipe from a street person's sudden burst of rage while sitting at a cafe -- "so ya no real problems ya know man"  (one of my all time favourite travel anecdotes) 

I think I am going to have to lodge into my regurgitation pool the fact that when a man with a machine gun sprays bullets around anyone not his intended target who takes a shell is a death by "accident".  Very similar to slipping in the tub. 

It must be a relative thing.  When someone in Medellin calls the city now safe they are likely and in a sense rightly thinking about in comparison to the cartel days of old.  When drug lords are running the town a change to just a wild west urban jungle an look pretty bloody utopia.

"hey whitey" I think we cause me to spin around and question whether I had actually just been called "whitey" by someone - maybe its a Denver thing.  And well I have only been to the airport isn't Denver like the whiteist city in America?  Really I could be wrong about this as for example I know Minneapolis has a surprisingly large black population and on a Monday night you could think you were in downtown Detroit. 

[Woody]

"hey whitey" I think we cause me to spin around and question whether I had actually just been called "whitey" by someone - maybe its a Denver thing.  And well I have only been to the airport isn't Denver like the whiteist city in America?  Really I could be wrong about this as for example I know Minneapolis has a surprisingly large black population and on a Monday night you could think you were in downtown Detroit. 

It is the fact that the black/Hispanic population is so small and generally poor that makes it even more dangerous. When a group feels that their identity/existence is at risk is when they are most dangerous and violent. In Colombia we are just gaijins, in Denver we are the oppressor.

[Dan Las Vegas]

It is quite interesting how many paisas call their city safe! On my last trip,  I was talking to a friend in Laureles about the large increase in the murder rate over the prior year and she was shocked when I showed her the numbers. According to her, Medellin was safe in all areas except for a couple barrios. The only Paisa who ever told me that Medellin was not safe  was my former novia, who warned me never to come to her neighborhood by myself as the drug war was going full throttle for control of the barrio.

[msthlm]

Say that I have been out and eaten, would you say that it is safe to walk back to the hotel at midnight around Parque Lleras in Medellin? Which I have never had any problem with doing or felt insecure then in cities in Europe or the USA. Sure, I avoid certain areas and security is in part a subjective topic. The only thing that has happened to me is that a woman has "jumped on me" and hugged me on the Fifth Avenue, Manhattan, and I have been robbed in my own city, as a teenager.

OT

Is there a big difference in wealth between different cities in Colombia? As, say, in Italy between north and south parts of the country. I have got the impression that so is the case between Barranquilla and Bogota.

UC, do you advise non-Spanish speaking European not to travel to Medellin?

Thanks

[eddie316]

msthlm, to answer your question, Bogota is alot wealthier than Barranquilla. My wife tells me she can make up to 5 times what she currently makes in Barranquilla.

[Dan Las Vegas]

I walked from Parque Lleras to my apartment last summer many times late at night and never had a problem. El Poblado is the best section of medellin and is probably the safest part of the city. But if you only stay in El Poblado, you will miss a great deal. Trying to find somsone who speaks english in Medellin is a challenge, but I also have to say that on my first visit to the city, my Spanish was awful, yet people were very helpful and patient with me and tried to assist me the best that they could.

[Henry]

Hmm I didnt know my Spanish was so good when I visited South America. I certainly understand more than I can speak though. Everyone seemed to understand me. Maybe they were dumbing down their Spanish while talking to me.

All good fun.

Only problem I had with Spanish is that some of those Mexican/Puerto Rican Spanish names for things werent the same words as the ones in the country I visited. So that was confusing. They knew they were Spanish words, but they must have thought I made them up or something. haha

[utopiacowboy]

The reason that my wife wasn't robbed is because she is a stubborn paisa and wouldn't follow orders. There were several guys who hijacked the bus and one of them kept telling her to sit down with everyone else. In fact at one point she said he was tapping her on the leg to make a point and she looked down to see what he was tapping her with and it was his gun. Somehow, between her not sitting down and the general disorder, she managed to avoid being robbed, the only person to do so she claimed.

If you can't speak Spanish In Medellin but you have someone there you can rely on, you'll be ok but if you have to rely on yourself, where does that leave you? Your chances of finding someone who can speak any English is slim and the opportunities for finding trouble are great. The ability to communicate certainly helps both in avoiding trouble and in navigating it successfully should it arise.
 

[NorthernLion]

More scores from people who know pretty please --
   I want to know what the estimates are for like say if Medellin in general is a 40 and Barranquilla is a 65 on the security scale for future trip planning. 

So far this conversation has moved me back to the idea of going to Cartagena first and spending a good chunk of time there studying Spanish before I move on to another Colombian city as it sounds like Cartagena has a tourist section where you can hang out study Spanish and not worry about anything bigger than a pick pocket but I want to know  --- more scores please

[Zon]

Here is the deal:  If you are worried and do not have a reliable guide - DO NOT GO.    If you have a reliable guide for Med or Cali, then there really is no problem. Colombian society is greatly divided; they function as orbits.  Stay in your correct orbit, and you will not visit trouble. Good contacts are on the board.  PM me if you need a good recommendation.

I have been away from this board for a while.  I lived int he DR for an extended time a couple years ago. I lived in Colombia last year - Cali, mostly.   I am going back to the DR next week.  I am looking forward to visiting Colombia more throughout my life. 

Over the last 3 years - especially in Cali - I have been very very very lucky.  In Colombia, when you take a risk, when you break the safety rules, you are already in GREAT danger (assuming you are an average gringo and not a Spanish speaking member of the Special Forces).  When I was living in Colombia, I THOUGHT I was being careful.   Just like the people who live in these cities THINK their cities are safe.  There is a psychological "creep" that comes into play.

In America, when people say be careful ... they mean be "sort of careful" and "I wish you good luck"   In Colombia, when people say, "be careful" ...  they mean that there is a 1 in 10 REAL and PRESENT chance that you will face danger.  Those chances can turn ugly quick, however.   The wrong girl looks at you, and boom her boyfriend has a problem, and its name is Gringo.   You drink too much and loose your judgment - BAD.   Accept an attractive invitation without guidance and security, could be BAD.   Be by yourself in the area of Manga - where most of the clubs are in Cali, and catch a cab at 4 in the morning by yourself, VERY BAD.

[capt_jim]

I have a friend in Medellin and she is very worried. A cousin of a friend's was killed in a robbery recently. It's always safe, until it's not. Follow the rules of a careful local.