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Offline Romello

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Interesting class
« on: May 14, 2009, 09:35:03 PM »
 ;DThis post is to share information, not to form an opinion.  My views are MY views and I do not force them on anyone. ;D
 
Interesting class tonight.  I'm getting my Masters and I'm taking Business Law 531.  We were going over the Constitution and reviewing the Amendments.  The 4th, 5th, and 14th, Amendments deals with treating ALL AMERICANS THE SAME. ie EQUAL PROTECTION individuals and business
Now the topic came up with "same sex marriages" (stay with me because it gets interesting)
 
Now the reason some states are allowing same sex marriages is because, those Amendments DO NOT differentiate between MAN AND WOMAN.  Now of course the church does, but with the separation of church and state, the state can grant same sex marriages no matter what the church may say.
 
Here is were it gets funny.  Every state will allow an American man to marry a Filipina from the Philippines.  However, will a state that grants same sex marriages, allow an American man to marry a Ladyboy from the Philippines?
 
The answer is YES

Offline jm21-2

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Re: Interesting class
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 10:26:33 PM »
It's a little more complicated than that since immigration is federal law...just because a state allows same sex marriage doesn't necessarily mean a same-sex marriage meets the definition of marriage for the purposes of immigration. Marriage in immigration law has traditionally not included gay couples. It will be interesting to see how that develops. If they allowed gay people from same-sex marriage states to marry foreigners, but not if you're from a man/woman marriage state, isn't that a violation of the 14th?

Offline Romello

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Re: Interesting class
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2009, 04:14:55 AM »
Marriage in immigration law has traditionally not included gay couples. It will be interesting to see how that develops.

Now not the key word "Traditionally".  Now remember "Laws" are MAN MADE, and many Lawyes and many Judges love to "CASE LAW". 

This is like the the big fancy business card that talks to clients.

It is very, very hard to change the Constitution, so no one will try.  That is why the states are not fighting the marriages.  The 14th Amendment does not say man or woman, and the Constitution is above all.  Now here is where the law gets tricky with the states.  The US Constitution comes first.  Next is the "Treaties with other countries".  This over rules state laws. 

Like it or not.  This is the law Terrorist use to enter and leave the country.  Yes we know they are Terrorist, but we can not forbid them from entering the country.  That is the reason for the "WATCH LIST" and the new law that allows the police to arrest someone suspected of terrorist actions and never give him a lawyer or trail. (HELLO CUBA)  .  So because of the Treaties Laws with other countries, we can not keep others out just because of sex or gender....IE immigration can grant a fiance visa to a ladyboy.

Just have a Lawyer with balls who knows and wants to "MAKE LAW"
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 04:19:25 AM by Romello »

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Re: Interesting class
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2009, 04:14:55 AM »

Offline satori

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Re: Interesting class
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2009, 04:20:49 AM »
We have the right to bear arms as specified in the constitution, but look how difficult  they've made that (including focusing on the fact that the constitution didn't include anything about ammo).

So much for the 'Uniform Commercial Code'  ;D.

Offline jm21-2

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Re: Interesting class
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2009, 08:21:00 AM »
Just have a Lawyer with balls who knows and wants to "MAKE LAW"

And also a few years and a very large sum of money  ;D. That's if the federal courts will even touch the issue of gay marriage immigration. Most likely some special interest group will lie in wait until an ideal case comes along then try to appeal.

Offline piglett

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Re: Interesting class
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2009, 08:40:39 AM »

Here is were it gets funny.  Every state will allow an American man to marry a Filipina from the Philippines.  However, will a state that grants same sex marriages, allow an American man to marry a Ladyboy from the Philippines?
 

 ;D I think i will have to pass on the ladyboy & stick with my girl :o

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Offline Capstone

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Re: Interesting class
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2009, 09:09:51 AM »
Even if a lawsuit was successfully brought and won against USCIS and as a result they changed their policy to allow US citizens to petition for a fiancee/spouse visa for someone of the same sex, then the US Consulates who actually issue the visas could still deny them and give 'not a bona fide relationship' as the reason. There would be nothing that any lawyer could do about that either, as many have already tried and failed when this has happened with traditional man/woman couples.
The State Department can and routinely does turn down a foreign national's visa application for pretty much any reason that they want to simply because a foreign national outside the US has no rights. The petition would be granted as not to infringe upon the rights of the US petitioner however since there are no rights to infringe upon for a foreign national the visa can easily be denied - it happens every single day at consulates all over the world and so far there hasn't been a whole lot that anyone can do about it. 

EDIT: As much disdain that I feel towards the Clintons, I do have the slightest bit of hope that Hillary may actually change the way these 'non bona fide relationship' denials are being so easily doled out by the Consulates. I say this because not only is Hillary a lawyer but more importantly she was a US Senator who routinely received complaints from many of her constituents about these types of denials and like all other members of congress encountered zero cooperation when inquiring about them. Of course I will not hold my breath about this but do hope that it may change.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 06:04:58 PM by Capstone »

Offline jm21-2

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Re: Interesting class
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2009, 03:41:55 PM »
As countries allow transsexuals to change their birth certificate to their desired gender, things could get interesting...I imagine a gay guy would be mighty pissed if their friend's transgender spouse from England can immigrate but their same-sex African hunk can't. And actual marriage, not just a domestic partnership.

Offline Capstone

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Re: Interesting class
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2009, 03:50:37 PM »
As countries allow transsexuals to change their birth certificate to their desired gender, things could get interesting...I imagine a gay guy would be mighty pissed if their friend's transgender spouse from England can immigrate but their same-sex African hunk can't. And actual marriage, not just a domestic partnership.

Now that would be interesting!! Although I guess the visa applicant's true sex would eventually be uncovered during the required medical exam for immigrant visas.

Offline Romello

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Re: Interesting class
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2009, 04:31:27 PM »
Even so...Canada allows same sex marriages.  They could easily become Canadians and then come to the US.

Offline Romello

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Re: Interesting class
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2009, 04:48:59 PM »
This post is to share information, not to form an opinion.  My views are MY views and I do not force them on anyone.

This topic was brought up in class and it made for a very good argument.  My Law Professor suggested that I continue to do the research so I have been looking through many of the law books at school.

I brought it to this forum because there has been a few men who has asked for advice and never got a good answer.  To each his own

I know that the immigration department can denie any petition,  but there is always the law IF you can find the right precedent.

A judge can denie bail to a defendant just because he does not want to or any other personal reason.  Who would know since the judge will not say.  However, if his lawyer can find just cause for bail, than his client will get it.

With so many laws, gees, it takes a good lawyer to find all this stuff.  I went through about 5 books and my head hurts. 
My hat's off to anyone who takes this up.  I'm glad Francy is a woman.

Offline Bear

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Re: Interesting class
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2009, 07:36:42 AM »
One thing about life is its won one step at a time.  I think those who wish to change the world understand that extremely well.

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