Which forum is the best?

[ColombiaExpert]

Which forum has the best discussion of how to successfully meet, date and marry Latin women?

[pablo]

Expert,

You missed  www.ColombianBlog.com

[ColombiaExpert]

Expert,

You missed ColombianBlog.com

Sorry, I had never heard of it.  I just tried to add ColombianBlog.com as an option, but it appears that some sort of time limit has passed - it's no longer possible.

Is ColombianBlog.com your site?  When did that site begin?

[pablo]

ColombianBlog started a couple months ago and is an off shoot of PBH.  It is not my site but I thought I would mention it for those wanting to look at all the sites out there.  There are a few other smaller forums also like www.lwguide.com.

[CelticUrge]

ColombianBlog started a couple months ago and is an off shoot of PBH.

Didn't it start out from a group of people who felt that PBH had lulled into obscurity and boredom and they wanted something better? I did find a few good recipes there.

[Patrick]

"None of the above.  They all suck"??


Sounds like there's three more guys out there ready to start their own forums.

[papi]

I thought I would jump into this. not sure i follow the new format but so far CE cracks me up if he started the latest poll and some of the other posts. Who is this guy?

[Patrick]

I don't know who he is, but I know he's not you as someone in the flame room suggested.  He's extremely anti-agency, but I wonder if he's actually ever used one.

Nothing wrong with being anti-agency, but I'd prefer the opinion to be based on significant experience rather than prejudice.

So what's your vote on the agency thing Papi?    For someone who doesn't speak Spanish and/or has limited time to spend in-country, I think going to agency route is far better than "just going there."

I know a guy who who doesn't speak Spanish who met and married married a woman in Barranquilla.  But he was living there for a couple of years working as an engineer (and loved it!).

[papi]

Patrick, I am down on agencies these days. They frustrate me tremendously and I am trying my best to avoid them! I found CE’s posts tremendously refreshing and would like to see more guys come forward and speak out against any agency injustice hopefully improving the level of service. Yet, as I recently posted on the other forum apparently low on the above poll – some agencies do conduct themselves with a modicum of professionalism and reasonably good service. For guys on a limited timeframe and low on the idioma skills – they serve a purpose and let you hit the ground running. For me, I plan to do my best to use them as sparingly as possible going forward. However, agencies can be of great help but overall are mostly a disappointment. It is the luck of the draw  

[Patrick]

Papi,

I didn't think you spoke Spanish.  Do you have contacts or someone not involved in an agency who's going to be assisting you in-country?  If you can pull a trip off with no assistance without knowing Spanish well and actually meet some women outside Flores Frescas, I'd like to hear how you pull it off.

[papi]

Patrick, yo hablo espanol muy bien para un gringo. Yo no tengo un problema con las muchachas para nada. Fui al Flores Fresca una vez, mi primera día en Colombia hace cinco anos. El Papi

[Malandro]

I can vouch for papi's Spanish.   I coincidentally met him at Flores Frescas during my one and only time there.

I asked him about  the practices there but he said it was his first time too.  but then he really helped me out by negotiating for me a session  involving two hookers, a midget, a goat, a three headed vibrator, 18 inches of Spanish sausage, and a can of Cheeze Whiz all for about $75 US.

I never thought I could top that so never returned.  but papi certainly can handle himself.  Damn, thanks papi!!

[papi]

Thanks Mal for vouching for me. Actually my Spanish is not nearly as good as yours but I do my best to keep up with the young beauties cuando nosotros nos vamos alla otro vez para mas lindas? estoy listo para mas muchachas! ya! cuidate

[papi]

by the way, Cheeze Whiz.....hilarious!

[Patrick]

Patrick, yo hablo espanol muy bien para un gringo.

Ah, that explains it.  I'd like to see someone use CE's "expertise" and go to Colombia without the ability to speak Spanish, on a limited time frame, without any agency support, and just say "Hello" because he doesn't know what the hell "Hola" means.

I agree men who speak Spanish can get by without assistance.  Gringos who don't speak Spanish can even do okay, given a very long stay (preferably retired or working there).

[ColombiaExpert]

Patrick, yo hablo espanol muy bien para un gringo.

Ah, that explains it.  I'd like to see someone use CE's "expertise" and go to Colombia without the ability to speak Spanish, on a limited time frame, without any agency support, and just say "Hello" because he doesn't know what the hell "Hola" means.

I agree men who speak Spanish can get by without assistance.  Gringos who don't speak Spanish can even do okay, given a very long stay (preferably retired or working there).

Patrick, Patrick, Patrick...the depths that the owners of introduction services will stoop to never ceases to amaze me.

First, go ahead and criticize anything that I've actually said.  However, you distort what I've said.  Allow me to further educate you on meeting women in Colombia.

I said that both Spanish ability and extended stays in Colombia are preferable.  That's obvious.  However, if it is not immediately possible for an American man to obtain Spanish ability and/or greater vacation time, then he should go to Colombia anyway.  With or without Spanish ability, a socially competent American man is better off not using an agency.  With or without an extended stay, a socially competent American man is better off not using an agency.

If an American man has an extended stay in Colombia, then he is far better off by enrolling in Spanish classes at a bilingual language institute than he is by using an agency.  The quality of women that he will meet will be far better.

If an American man does not have an extended stay in Colombia, then he is far better off by socializing with the residents of a hostel than by spending his time at an agency.  The quality of women that he will meet will be far better.

Let's examine the different demographic compositions of hostels vs. agencies:

HOSTELS

1.  Both American and European guys.

2.  The guys are generally young.

3.  The guys are generally attractive and physically fit.

4.  The guys are generally socially outgoing.

AGENCIES

1.  Mostly American guys, some European guys.

2.  The guys are generally old.

3.  The guys are generally ugly and out of shape.

4.  The guys are generally social misfits that are too timid to approach women without an introduction by a third-party.

What happens if you socialize with the guys from hostels?  You network and share information.  You go out and meet any woman, anywhere.  Colombia is the easiest place to meet women that I've ever been to.  There's no need to fear rejection in Colombia.  Yeah, sometimes you get rejected even in Colombia - but it's rare.  And who cares anyway?  There's 20 million women left to meet still.

What happens at the agencies?  The socially-handicapped men gripe about the low-quality women that are served to them on a tray like Big Macs at a McDonald's.  But do they do anything about it?  No.  Why not?  Because they lack the balls to go out and meet women on their own.

The guys at hostels generally do not speak Spanish, and they usually stay for only a limited time in each city they visit.  Yet they are successful meeting and dating Colombian women.  Why?  Because...

social competence > Spanish ability

social competence > extended stays

I speak Spanish.  I am not financially-challenged, and I can afford extended stays in Colombia.  Even when I didn't speak Spanish, however, it was no obstacle to meeting and dating women in Latin America.  And I've met plenty of other American men that were not hindered by lack of Spanish nor lack of time in Colombia.  These are just two very convenient excuses used by cowardly, emasculated American men that are intimidated by women.

When it comes to wingmen, I would rather have a socially outgoing guy with limited Spanish than one of the social misfits from an agency - even if the social misfit speaks Spanish like Enrique Iglesias.

[doombug]

ColombianBlog started a couple months ago and is an off shoot of PBH.

That site tends to be as boring and phony as ColombiaExpert is here.

Count on lots of America-bashing and politically-correct speak.

Their star America-basher is some bloated Canadian feminist who posts (or bosts) under the name "quijanoswife".

They're currently in the process of indoctrinating the remaining white male posters into feeling guilty for the sin of being born:

http://www.colombianblog.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=715&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

[Patrick]

Patrick...the depths that the owners of introduction services will stoop to never ceases to amaze me.

Actually, it's my wife who owns the introduction service and she offers no help for men traveling to Latin America (She just sells addresses).

I think you've got the "I'm normal" syndrome.  I've suffered from it in the past myself.  It's the belief that you're not "one of them" with them being the guys who seek MOBs.  I noticed over the years though that there are quite a few "normal" guys doing this.  Even among the ones using agencies.  Granted, I haven't been around the scene in years, but I don't think it could have deteriorated that much.  I'd say a minority, probably a significant minority, fit your socially incompetent  theory.  But you're painting with far too broad strokes when you make your assertions.

How much does a trip South cost?  For a man who doesn't speak Spanish and with limited time, the extra (what is it, a few hundred dollars?) he might spend on agency services would probably be well spent.  Especially if it's his first trip.

I still say you're recommending a fool's game.  At least for the average Joe who doesn't speak Spanish and has 2-3 weeks vacation per year.  I would agree with your strategy for some, but I think you're going overboard simply because of your predjudice against agencies.

[ColombiaExpert]

I think you've got the "I'm normal" syndrome.  I've suffered from it in the past myself.  It's the belief that you're not "one of them" with them being the guys who seek MOBs.  I noticed over the years though that there are quite a few "normal" guys doing this.  Even among the ones using agencies.

I do consider myself normal, and I have met countless other normal guys in Latin America that are there primarily to meet and date Latin women.  Yes, as I have said repeatedly, I have met some normal guys at agencies in Colombia.  However, I have met far more social misfits than normal guys at such agencies.  And it gets worse every year.

Granted, I haven't been around the scene in years, but I don't think it could have deteriorated that much.  I'd say a minority, probably a significant minority, fit your socially incompetent  theory.  But you're painting with far too broad strokes when you make your assertions.

False.  The scene has deteriorated enormously.  In Colombia, women have been warned about introduction agencies and introduction services for many years - in documentaries, on televised news programs, on televised talkshows, on radio programs, in magazines, in newspapers, etc.  The agencies now have extremely poor reputations in Colombia.

How much does a trip South cost?  For a man who doesn't speak Spanish and with limited time, the extra (what is it, a few hundred dollars?) he might spend on agency services would probably be well spent.  Especially if it's his first trip.  I still say you're recommending a fool's game.  At least for the average Joe who doesn't speak Spanish and has 2-3 weeks vacation per year.  I would agree with your strategy for some, but I think you're going overboard simply because of your predjudice against agencies.

You are missing the point.  It's not the money - it's the quality of women.  The quality of women in agencies declines further every year.  Time is more valuable than money.  Even if the cost of agencies fell to zero, it still would be a waste of time because the quality of women in agencies is now so low.  The time wasted at an agency would have been better spent meeting women on your own at Parque Lleras or wherever.  Even if you offer to sell me a Ford Pinto for a low price, I won't buy it because I would have to waste my time and money maintaining it, repairing it, insuring it, storing it, cleaning it, etc.

I don't drive Ford Pintos.  I expect more from life.

[Patrick]

CE,

I just can't seem to get you to stop focusing on you!  I'm not claiming agencies are a good thing for you.  I've even stated that I personally wouldn't use one if I were single and looking.  What I am saying is that for a man who doesn't speak Spanish and doesn't have gobs of free time to travel, an agency is probably the best choice.

Do you actually stay in hostels when you travel?  Isn't that how financially strapped college students travel?

Maybe you should flesh out your story a bit more to give us a better idea of how you operate and what success you've had to date.  What areas have you visited?  Have you ever been seriously involved with any women you've met?  Ever considered marriage?  How long have you been at this?

[ColombiaExpert]

I just can't seem to get you to stop focusing on you!  I'm not claiming agencies are a good thing for you.  I've even stated that I personally wouldn't use one if I were single and looking.  What I am saying is that for a man who doesn't speak Spanish and doesn't have gobs of free time to travel, an agency is probably the best choice.

I'm not just focused on me.  I'm focused on any socially competent American male, and that is clear from my posts if you bother to read them before responding.

Do you actually stay in hostels when you travel?  Isn't that how financially strapped college students travel?

I never recommended staying at one.  I recommended socializing with the guys that do stay at them, though.

Maybe you should flesh out your story a bit more to give us a better idea of how you operate and what success you've had to date.  What areas have you visited?  Have you ever been seriously involved with any women you've met?  Ever considered marriage?  How long have you been at this?

Okay.  I always have been successful at meeting and dating Latinas for many years - in Colombia, elsewhere in Latin America and in the United States.  I have met countless guys that can say the same.  It's not rocket science, folks.  American men are the very top of the food chain.  It's easy.  I have had several serious relationships with Latin women, but I've never married.

I've already posted a lot of my tactics.  If you want, I can explain step-by-step exactly what to do to meet women in Colombia without an agency.

[papi]

If I may interject some thoughts, for starters I found CE’s posts very refreshing and funny - i liked the leasing balls comment. I hope more guys will come forward and question the agencies. I agree that the process has deteriorated and the agencies probably do in fact serve up the worst that Colombia has to offer. A percentage of the women in the agencies are not sincere and some agencies aren’t much better. But the agency experience is going to differ by client, trip, staff, agency, and location. I have had good experiences and very poor and again we need more guys like CE to come forward and hold those agencies accountable when they fail

I feel that Gringo rock star status died some time ago in many popular destinations and contrary to CE, don’t feel it is that easy to meet women outside of the agencies, although I have done it. I have met women at the gym, hiking, mall, bar, etc. Yet, it is not like shooting fish in a barrel for me despite the fact that most consider me a reasonably nice looking man, outgoing, and  speak relatively good Spanish.

I also agree with what I think Patrick is saying in that agencies provide a necessary service especially for the  newbie with limited or no language stills, contacts or knowledge of the local terrain. Said newbie can hire a guide and I know of some but that isn’t going to be much of a savings so they probably are just as well off with the agency/tour. The other positive that an agency can provide and seldom mentioned is gringo camaraderie hopefully making the trip more pleasurable, even when meeting the misfits.

For me, as I mentioned before, I am frustrated with the process and plan to go expat shortly anyway so will use agencies very sparingly in the future. Yet again, agencies in many instances provide a valued service yet we need more guys like CE not looking through the process with rose colored glasses to come forward, cite specific examples of poor service and help improve the program

[Patrick]

I've already posted a lot of my tactics.  If you want, I can explain step-by-step exactly what to do to meet women in Colombia without an agency.

You may think I'm being sarcastic in this reply, but I assure you, I'm not.  I wold LOVE to see a new thread on exactly that topic.  There's been too little information on how to do things without using agencies.

Perhaps a new thread titled "How to meet Latin women without an agency."  The only thing I ask is that you try to inform men rather than belittle them with the posts.