Fathertime takes a stand or is cold-hearted!

[Dan Las Vegas]

Hey FT, it is not an easy decision to make, so kudos to you for holding your ground.  I often wonder how these families were able to survive prior to our arrival on the scene?  I'm wlling to bet that they did just fine and managed to make it without having a gringo santa claus sending them money constantly. Each person needs to make this decision for themselves as to sending money or not. Just don't let the money become the primary factor in the relationship.

just my dos centavos worth.

[Frank Rizzo]

Great points Dan. From what i've seen, there is a different pride issue for people down there. Most of the poeople in Colombia will ask for money and it's just a question, if you say yes then great, if you say no then it's okay too.

We have workers ask every week to borrow more money than their pay, nothing special just asking for a loan weekly. It's amazing. You never see this in wealthy families. There is a HUGE difference.

[Researcher]

   Way to go FT.I agree with alot of what has been said here.From what you described, it sounds like her family put her up to it and she was relieved when you said no.It is great advice to keep money out of the relationship as long as you can.My wife is still in Bogota and she is currently working to support herself and contributes to supporting her mother(as do her brothers).During my adventures as a single guy I ran into this scenario many times.I have sent money to some and I have said no to some....You are doing the right thing at this point......

[pan de bono]

I would have to say that i think you are cold hearted and a tight ass. She should dump your ass immedicately.

[Ray]

I am covering all these expenses.  That is a given. 

Thanks FT, that really helps to clarify your situation. I guess I misunderstood when you said you told her "I do not want money to have anything to do with our relationship".

For everyone else:

Since fathertime is engaged and in the middle of the fiancée visa process, I frankly don’t understand some of the comments to the effect ‘you should avoid any mention of money at this point in the relationship’. FT will likely be married to this young lady in a few short months so he had better be discussing these things now IMHO.

Guys, the goal here should NOT be to keep any mention of money or financial matters out of the relationship for as long as possible. The goal should be to avoid any mention of money UNTIL you have a genuine relationship established.

When you get to the point where you are in an established relationship and discussing marriage, you should be talking about all this stuff. No, you DO NOT have to be sending money to discuss money matters.

If you go into a marriage without reaching some basic understandings on financial matters, you may be in for big trouble down the road. Keep in mind that disagreements over money are one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, causes of failures in marriages.

If she has her heart set on sending money to help her family after you are married and living together here in the States, and you don’t want to have anything to do with that, you better start looking for another partner now. Sure, you can be the macho strong guy and lay down the law up front, but don’t be surprised later on if you find that she is sneaking behind your back and sending money home anyway. Many of these ladies find it easier to avoid confrontation and simply go behind your back.

Also, there often seems to be a consensus here that when you are married, you will have YOUR money and if she is working she will have HER money. That scenario may work for some couples, but I have seen dozens of couples eventually get into serious trouble because they tried to separate everything financial. My personal advice would be to make your wife an equal partner as much as possible and consider the sum of your individual earnings as “family” money. You both should be involved in decisions on major purchases, savings, etc.  Likewise, try to consider all family expenses as belonging to both partners. If she turns out to be a disaster at managing finances and lacks a healthy respect for money, then by all means take personal control. But if she is better at managing a budget and paying bills than you are, then consider turning these responsibilities over to the wife. She may just surprise you.

Ray

[sean126]

Here, Here!  

RR's commentary is the extended version to my cream-puff version.  Well put Ray.  Big issues should definitely be worked out BEFORE marriage and don't forget to put some foresight into it.  for instance....if you agree to send her family what she was making and giving her family before she moved here, like $200 per month.....well, in 10 years or so your going to have to take into account the rising costs of everything.  She would probably be making more at her job, therefore you need to take that into account.  That's just one instance of common sense and foresight to keep in mind.

What you plan to do or not do should be talked out and discussed beforehand.  It's only fair to both of you.  To say..."we'll talk about it later" and then tell her she can't help her mother or who ever after she's already here for several months is cold blooded.  It may take several months for some women to get a job in America.  It may take them quite some time to learn English in order to get a job or something.  After all, not everyone lives in Texas, California, NY or Fl where speaking English or not is of no great concern.  If you agree she can help her mother out of "her own" money....what is she to do while she is here waiting for her green card, the time it takes to learn enough English or the time it takes to get a job?  It may very well take several months.  Is she to tell mama..."well, you'll be able to buy food in about 6 or 7 months." ?

For those who don't have any family members that need assistance, it's great.  But if I was helping someone, say my mother...I surely wouldn't want someone to tell me I couldn't.  If I suddenly tripled or quadripled my income...I'm to tell my wife, "Don't even think about considering this extra money.  It's MY money.  "OUR" money is what I say it is and I say "OUR" money is what YOU make and I'll only consider the first 20 grand of what I make as "OUR" money. The rest is MINE."?  Some guys are basically telling their wives...Yes, this is OUR money, but I'M the sole dictator in deciding what to do with it.  Not all guys do that, but some do.
Think about it....what if this girl, who you stood up to saying..."get your own job and your own money and help your family from that"..what if she suddenly won the lottery?  or was some how in an accident of some sort and won a huge settlement in a lawsuit?  I bet her money will become "our" money pretty damn quick!  And if you didn't say anything, you'll resent her if she didn't naturally want to put it into "our" family money pot. If your going to put your foot down....that's fine, but make sure you look at it from her point of view before you consider it "fair" in your own judgement.  

A "separate but together" marriage is not a "marriage".  And some guys wonder why it fails!  You may be the man, but the woman is to be an EQUAL partner.  That's easier said than done, I know, but it's also very true if you expect respect and true love from your wife. If your greedy, stingy, selfish or just frugal and thrifty when it comes to money...that's fine.  Just find a woman who has the same view about things as you do.   No matter who makes the most...it's still "OUR" money.  If you think otherwise....I wish you luck in trying to find peace, respect and happiness in that marriage.

[raycjs]

sean very well put you make a lot of sense what is marriage with anyone if it is not equal
sean pm me when you have time i would like to speak to you about your past experience. i tried to PM you but it would not let me.

Thanks
Ray

[Frank Rizzo]

Wow Sean. I sure look at things way differently. I wouldn't risk my homes in the US or Colombia for a wife, that's for sure. I'll take care of any woman i'm with, while i'm with her and actually help the family too if it's a longer relationship. That in no way entitles her to anything of mine. To me that has nothing to do with love, caring and devotion.

[sean126]

Mecca,

Don't get me wrong.  If you get a divorce, she's only entitled to a certain amount while the two of you were together.  I don't think it's right when a woman divorces a man and she gets half of things that the guy had before they met.  But if anyone hits the lottery or something while they are married.....I believe it's "theirs".  I think some men actually reduce their role as a husband to nothing more than a sugar daddy while they are married. I also think that's one of the subtle ways they try to control the marriage.  I was a control freak at one point.  As you can tell from some of my posts...it still creeps in every now and then and that's one of the ways control freaks control a relationship....This is mine, I have more than you so therefore I'm the boss.  No if's, and's or but's.  That's not right or even close to being fair or loving.  Men are willing to love, care for and even die for their woman and yet are so possesive of their money and material things.  I don't see how they can call it love, in the true sense of the word.

I'm not saying that's what you do...but some guys do that and don't even realize it.  I know I didn't realize it.
My core beliefs about love and relationships have changed since I've gotten older.  My religious beliefs play a major, if not the only, role in how I see things now.

Nothing wrong with protecting what's yours.  I'm all for that...but sometimes you can protect it so much to make sure nothing gets away from you that nothing else can get out either.  Namely love and respect for your wife, in the truest sense of the word.  It's hard to trust and truely love someone when your busy trying to hold on to things sometimes.

I understand what your saying though.

[sean126]

Thanks raycjs.  I just expanded on what Ray said.

Pm is on the way.

[fathertime]

Wow Sean. I sure look at things way differently. I wouldn't risk my homes in the US or Colombia for a wife, that's for sure. I'll take care of any woman i'm with, while i'm with her and actually help the family too if it's a longer relationship. That in no way entitles her to anything of mine. To me that has nothing to do with love, caring and devotion.

Sean Says:

A "separate but together" marriage is not a "marriage".  And some guys wonder why it fails!  You may be the man, but the woman is to be an EQUAL partner.  That's easier said than done, I know, but it's also very true if you expect respect and true love from your wife. If your greedy, stingy, selfish or just frugal and thrifty when it comes to money...that's fine.  Just find a woman who has the same view about things as you do.   No matter who makes the most...it's still "OUR" money.  If you think otherwise....I wish you luck in trying to find peace, respect and happiness in that marriage

I have enjoyed listening to what both of you have said.  I agree that everybody is an equal partner in the marriage and a woman taking care of children and cleaning house is as valuable as the man making the money so everybody has a roof over their heads. 

I also believe that you never really know how things are going to go until you throw yourself into the fire.  Everything is lovey-dovey now, and hopefully that is how it will always be.  As a man with other dependents, I want to be quite cautious with my money in the early stages of this relationship.  I can always loosen up with the cash later, but for now I want to be a bit of a tight ass as Pan De Bono says! 

All in all, I am very happy with my ladies reaction and I am looking forward to helping her mother out a bit in the future, after we have spent some time together in the beautiful & harmonious symphony of marriage!

Fathertime!

 

[Ray]

I'll take care of any woman i'm with, while i'm with her and actually help the family too if it's a longer relationship. That in no way entitles her to anything of mine.

Well, perhaps not morally entitled to any of your stuff, but maybe she is legally entitled if you should divorce, depending on the laws of your state.

California, for example is a community property state for the purposes of marriage/divorce. The way I understand the law, if you own a home for example when you marry, then the home is not community property unless you make mortgage payments with community money or somehow co-mingle it with other community assets. You can’t just assume that if you have $50,000 on the day you marry that you will automatically take that 50k before you divide assets in a divorce settlement.

Likewise, anything you inherit while married is not community property as long as you keep it separate and don’t co-mingle it with community monies. If you inherited a million bucks and then deposited in your joint savings account, it may well be considered community property.

I know that in California, many family assets are divided in a divorce by set formulas and it can get somewhat complicated. Even a pre-nup may not be able to protect what you consider to be your stuff or keep you from paying spousal support after a divorce.

If you have assets that you want to protect from a possible future divorce settlement, you really need to do some serious research on your state’s laws and sit down with a competent family law attorney for a consult BEFORE you bring the little lady here on a fiancée visa.

[Frank Rizzo]

I hear you FT and Ray. Ray, I do (painfully) understand your points..

I'm in my late 30's and i'd never get married again, what for??. I'd also not bring any girl I date back to the states to engage in any financial areas of my life. If you know or know of Viewpoint from PBH, he's my idol and good friend that is 70 y.o. and owns' it. I love that guy! (he owns half of panama city and big parts of Medellin)

I'll date the girls, keep in shape, enjoy a life in Colombia and leave the marriage to you guys. I've got kids and don't need distractions from the frog pelts to retire asap. But, don't want to rock the boat for anyone here...as i've been down the marriage road and it can be great.

[Ray]

mecca,

Marriage isn't for everyone and staying single is probably the best way to protect your assets from a potential gold digger.

That's a big advantage of living overseas. You don't need to marry and sponsor a lady for a visa to live together.

As long as you're happy with what you've got, more power to you.

[Frank Rizzo]

I hear ya Ray, thanks for your input....well I don't live there yet, just finishing places there. I'm hoping to retire there, but business here never seems to end. That's the great thing about boards here, every person has a different angle on what makes them happy and how they get to the end result. Very cool ! Good luck to all for sure.

[Soprano69]

Fathertime: Your my hero and I hope allot of guys will get a wind of your stand. So don't feel like General Custard.