More chaos?

[Ray]

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!

Could Sean or someone please explain the real reason for this latest “disorganization” of the forum by starting a new “Visa” section? The given explanation that newbies and lurkers would somehow get “lost in the shuffle” just doesn’t make any sense. Has there been a rash of complaints from lurkers and newbies about the placement of posts here? ANY complaints at all??

Many of these questions are country specific and belong in the forum where they were originally posted. Other topics are vaguely related to visas or immigration and could in no way confuse any lurker or newbie unless he/she were completely retarded.

If this is an attempt to make P-L an immigration research tool or something similar then I think the intention is somewhat misguided. This immigration stuff changes on almost a monthly basis and what was posted a year or two ago on visa or immigration questions is often outdated and inaccurate today. Even still, this forum does have a search function for anyone seeking particular visa info so I don’t see that anything has been “lost in the shuffle”.

Personally, I find that the more you fragment the forum into little sub-forums, the messier it gets. The more sub-forums and different topic areas you create, the more things are likely to get “lost in the shuffle” IMHO.

If topics are being posted, questions are being answered, and members are being helped in their journey, then why change everything around? Is this perhaps just a case of a moderator being bored to death and feeling the need to moderate something just for the sake of moderating? Just curious. 

Some specific comments on the new “Visa” forum contents:

The recent thread by a new member asking about travel requirements to Russia for a teaching job clearly should belong in the Russian forum. Why even have a Russian forum if you won’t use it to ask questions specifically related to Russia and the FSU?

Monty’s recent thread “Help I’m Illegal…” is clearly related to Colombia only and should obviously reside in the Latin forum.

The “Bogota” thread by Nicks asking about accommodations in Bogota has absolutely nothing to do with visas or immigration and should have remained in the Latin forum where it belongs.

Marriage in San Andres is a visa-related topic??

What does the proposed immigration legislation debate have to do with visas and newbies/lurkers getting lost here??

I could go on but I think by now you will hopefully get my point.

Just my $.02,

Ray

[michaelb]

I don't know their motives either, I'll assume they are well intentioned. But I'm with you on the result....more segmenting leads to more confusion. I'd just divide it Asian and Latin and maybe one more 'general discussion not related to finding/sponsoring(visa wise)/keeping/making happy a foreign spouse'. Any segmentation finer than that, I'd let the thread titles themselves be the only subdivisions.....but then, I'm not in charge (nor am I volunteering to be in charge).

[sean126]

Ray,

I'll first answer your real questions.  

Yes, it was my idea.  Why did I think it was a good idea???  Visa questions aren't as common as all the other questions.  You might see them on the first page...but only for a few days or so.  How many times have we told people to "check the archives"?  Many, many times people will not.  I was just trying to make those questions more easily available to people....especially the people who just look and not actually sign up.  My thinking was....we might increase our membership by having someone ask a question, see how friendly and helpful (most of the time) we are and then decide to post more and more about their trips.  The more members/traffic we have, then the more advertisers see we have a lot of people visiting and perhaps theres a good chance we will get more advertisers and theres a good chance we will keep the ones we have.  As I understand it....this site takes money to run it.  Since visa questions aren't as common questions as the rest of the stuff....maybe and hopefully they will start to be now.

Basically....I was just trying to come up with an idea to improve the website.  I would hope others would be just as constructive or.....we can let it go the way of the some of the other ones, past and present, by all the negativity and being complacent.

The other question that is probably burning in your mind and a few others.....No, it wasn't my idea to be the moderator of it.  Actually, it doesn't even need a moderator.  Just like the "totally off topic" room doesn't need a moderator.  The visa room is for everyone...not just latin stuff.  In all honesty...I think making me the moderator of the room was just a little joke by the administrator because it was my idea to have this section.  Jeff S is free to put stuff and pull stuff from that room as he sees fit.  (yeah, yeah...I know...me being a moderator, period, is a joke.  LOLOLOL.  Beat you all to it. LOL)  If it makes everyone more comfortable....they can take my name off as moderator...I don't care.  It was a joke and if a fight breaks out over a visa question...just like if one broke out in the "services" or "off topic" sections, Jeff S is a moderator also, those are his rooms too and so is the visa section.  

Back to your written questions:

1.  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"......I wonder how many of these types of websites in the past (and in the present) have this type of attitude and have shut down or are shutting down as a result of being complacent?  

2. No, no complaints...just trying to make the site better.  I really haven't heard anyone else coming up with ideas, at least not to me.  The only "ideas" I've heard have to do with letting this be more and more like a wild west town.  I have seen/am seeing the results of the people who like boards with very little moderation.  The sites eventually shut down.

3.  Yes....I think we could give people alot of help with visas.  Just like another site does and I don't hear anyone there saying it's misguided.  In fact, people get alot of use out of it.  I don't think we will be as big as visa journey....but it doesn't hurt to improve.  I mean....you love showing your "stuff" when it comes to visa questions, right?  Rightly so....you keep up on all that stuff.  Then we have Sir William....who graciously gives his time at helping people when he doesn't have to.  Gary Bala stops in from time to time to lend a hand.  Then of course...we have all the ones that have been through it or are going through it who would be of help.  Call me misguided...but I think all the people on this site could be a huge help to the others getting a visa.  Yes, I think PL could also be "an immigration research tool or something similar" and why not?  We have enough know-how here.  Unless of course some "overly competitive people" boycott it simply because it shows I'm a moderator (as a joke) and the administrators acted on my idea.  Which would show how much they actually care about this site.

4.  Some people like organization....some just like a big pile of stuff.  Personally...I think it will be much easier for people to find visa questions and answers in a section marked "visa section", call me crazy for thinking so.

5.  "Changing everything around"......to make the site easier and more organized, not for my ego.  You, Ray,  know for a fact that they can have my moderator status back anytime they want and I'd gladly give it up for the good of the site.  My main goal is the good of the site and trying to help make it better.  At least I'm throwing ideas out there and trying to make it better for everyone in general.

Your specific comments:

1.  I just now seen the Russian question.  I have to check with the Royal Lumpkin and the Illustrious potentate...but I think we can still handle Russian visa questions and not just Asian and Latin visa stuff.  Since this was a "visa related" question...it was in the right spot.  If your going to work or live some place out of your country...I would think that qualifies.

2.  Monty was also a visa related question.
3.  Nicks....looking at it again, I should move it back.
4.  Marriage in San Andres topic....this was a question about marriage stuff in regards to paperwork...which to me translates into...marriage + paperwork questions = visa related questions.

5.  immigrants need visas in order to be legal...do they not?  That was just a judgement call....if you like I can keep the legislation talk in the general forums.



You brought up some interesting questions, ones that deserved answers. I hope everyone realizes that nothing is set in stone.  If it doesn't work out...no big deal, we can always change it back...but at least give it a chance to work or not.  Not everyone will like it and that's fine.  Just like not everyone liked Catz coming on as an administrator when he first got here or me being asked to be a moderator or (if I read it right) Not everyone liked the changes made when Dan took over the site.....but it's been working and working good.  We just recently broke our record of most people visiting the site in one day.  I think more traffic is a good thing for this site....I could be wrong though.  If anyone has any constructive ideas on how to make this site better....shoot Dan, Catz, Jeff S or myself a pm.

Ray....I do get your point.  More than you know.
I sincerely hope you decide/continue to participate in the visa section for the good of the site.

  

[catz]

RWD has had an Immigration and Visa's section for a long time and it has worked very well in being a one stop shop for those questions.

Both Dan and I agreed with the idea and thought it was a good one so I added the board and as punishment for making me do actual work for 5 minutes I made Sean the moderator. 

I just finished modifying the title and descriptions of the Russian section here to notate that it is archive only so as to not confuse someone like the recent probie.

Lastly, it is just the nature of people to not like change. Hopefully after you all give it some time you will find that it is a benefit.

Catz

[Ray]

Hi Catz,

I wouldn’t object per se to a separate forum where U.S. immigration issues are discussed, but this new forum seems to include topics that could not be related to a U.S. visa even if you really stretched your imagination. See Sean’s reply regarding the marriage in San Andres post. Sorry, but that post was not about immigration or visas, but about Colombia weddings.

That was a big part of my reason for questioning the wisdom of moving all of those posts.

Some other examples of moved posts that are country specific and/or have nothing to do with immigration include:

”Do you need to register a Divorce from the United States in Colombia?”

“Best places to stay in Bogotá for Visa Interview?

Other topics related to immigration/residence issues in a foreign country and having nothing to do with U.S. immigration, such as Monty’s post on extending his stay in Colombia, would probably get a better response and be better served if left in the Latin forum where they were posted.

I took a look at the Immigration and Visas section you mentioned at RWD and I see nothing wrong with that. I think the keyword “Immigration” in the topic heading is much more meaningful than “Visas and Related”. I think anything posted in that heading should be related to U.S. immigration topics or perhaps discussion of procedures for other Western countries (Canada, UK?) where a member wants to bring his foreign spouse.

Again, I feel that sometimes this urge to neatly categorize and reorganize everything can lead to even more confusion if not done carefully and intelligently. I really have nothing against change as long as it isn’t change just for the sake of change.

When a topic is currently active, at least wait for a while after the discussion is concluded before moving it around. I’ve had threads cut up and moved while I was in the middle of posting a reply.

And as far as who the moderator of the new forum is, I couldn’t care less, and it never was an issue, contrary to Sean’s contention.

Ray

[catz]

Hey Ray,

 Thanks for the comments. I'll change the heading to Immigration and Visas.

 The divorce one (depending on its content which I would have to review) may not fit there very well unless there could be immigration related issues with it.

 Best places to stay for visa is relevant I think.

 Monty's topic was about his visa to stay (wasn't it?) so that seems to be relevant as well.

 I guess we'll need to feel this out a bit to see what would be appropriate and what would not.

 Question: Would it be better to have an Immigration and Visas section under each the Latin and Asian boards? Might help to keep them organized a bit better.

 In the end we want to do what is best for the membership and the board in general. Feedback on what and how to do this is always welcomed and appreciated.

Catz

[Ray]

Thanks Catz!

I don’t think there is a need for a separate immigration topic area for Latin and Asian.

Most of the discussions will probably be at least partially relevant to all countries.

For those immigration/visa questions that are specific to one country, I would just let the poster decide where to put it…in Immigration or under the Asian/Latin General forums. He/she might get a better response to questions posted under the general forums because there are probably a lot of guys here who won’t even bother to read the boring stuff in the Immigration & Visa section.

But PLEASE don’t start breaking the Immigration & Visa forum down into sub-forums, e.g. K-1/K-2 Visas, K-3/K-4 Visas, CR-1/SR-1 Visas, Tourist Visas, Business Visas, Student Visas, Diplomatic Visas, Terrorist Visas, Model Visas, H-1B Visas, H-1A Visas, S-6 Visas, S-7 Visas, etc., etc., etc… Some forums are so cluttered with little sub-topic areas that it’s a wonder anything ever gets read, or posted where the forum owner intended it to.

K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Sean)   

One further note for all: When choosing a subject line for a new thread, please consider the case where someone may be searching/browsing the forum/archives some day looking for exactly the issue you are opening for discussion. Try to use a subject that is relevant or uses key words that would help in a search. For example, use "K-1 Visa Question" instead of "Visa Question" or "I-864 Affidavit of Support" instead of "AOS Question".

Ray

[sean126]

I agree about not splitting hairs on each individual visa class.    Actually I can see your rational about some of the posts.   I lump things together when others think I should separate and separate when others think I should lump them together.  No biggie...we just have different thought process'.  It will all work out I guess.

I also agree about suggesting guys put a specific subject name instead of just "visa question".....that would help others more easily also.  I hope they will take your suggestion.

Instead of breaking things down into visas and immigration matters...I just lumped them together with anything related also.  To the average Joe like myself...it's the same thing.  I look at it from the average Joe's perspective.     I'm beginning to think I'll always be in a no-win situation as long as I'm a moderator. lol.

The wedding post....I read an underlying theme in it that you might not have seen.  I seen "disadvantages", "saves alot of paperwork", and "possible problems"...I just assume he was talking about in regards to visa stuff down the road.  If he didn't mean that by the phrases he used....I can't understand what else it could have been if it wasn't visa related about his future wife after the wedding.  I'm not splitting hairs or disagreeing with you in the slightest....just clarifying my thought process and reasoning.   I won't break down every single post and the thought process....just giving you an idea of my reasoning.  Maybe my "umbrella" is too broad....I'll work on it.    

I'm just a complexed work of art.  or maybe soooo simple minded, others don't even consider that possiblity for me and my reasoning. LOLOLOLOL.

[michaelb]

I don't think a rookie would know what kind of visa he was even looking for. Granted, all of us who have been here a while and/or 'done that' do, but somebody just starting out wouldn't know a K-2 from an H1-B, at least not by their official titles.