Hello

[Nighthawke]

Having found this site a short time ago, I have been reading up on all the old posts.  I'll admit, I was quite impressed with the amount of info here!

A little about myself: I'm 25, and a Canadian.  I first got the idea of these mail-order brides many years ago, but in my naiveté, I was merely looking at Russians, and was quickly turned off by the idea.  Then I started dating the locals, slowly discovering differences in beliefs.  I've learned that my beliefs are an interesting mix of traditional and modern ideas, one that is hardly ever shared by women on this continent.  I toyed with the notion of BDSM, but even that wasn't feeling like the right path either.

I little while ago, I recently remade contact with a couple of my cousins that have moved and teach in S. Korea, and both have taken wives there.  I met one of them previously, and I was quickly impressed: she was very beautiful (perhaps it's just that exotic quality that women over here lack), and her mannerisms amazed me further.  Since that time, I have looked into finding an Asian lady to share my life with.

After some serious consideration, I believe I've settled on the Philippines.  The women there seem to most closely emulate the beliefs and values that I have (family-orientated, wonderful concept of honor, etc), not to mention how I find almost all of them quite attractive.  Unfortunately though, my situation here isn't conducive to traveling over there just yet, and seeing as I'm still fairly new to this idea of overseas women, I figure it's prudent to learn everything I can before I initiate any contact with the ladies.  I have realized that building that bridge of trust is going to take some time (especially considering the social atmosphere over there), but once I start a dialogue with some of them, I do not wish to unknowingly sabotage my efforts like I frequently have done over here.  I have also been looking into getting involved in the Filipino community here in my home city (taking Bear's advice about introductions).

One thing that makes me concerned however, is the seemingly rampant Catholicism over there.  In my dealings over here, I've found that many Catholics here tend to preach their beliefs to me (I've lost count at how many times I'm going to burn in hell because I'm not Catholic!), which is a definite turn-off.  And having looked at some profiles of the ladies over there, they make frequent mention of the desire to find "God-fearing" men.  Does anyone know how this situation is over there?  How devout do these ladies tend to be?  I'm the first to admit that those same Catholic values promote positive family-building traits, which is the main reason I've focused my attentions on that region; the only hang-up is this Catholic thing.  I'm simply trying to get a sense of understanding, so that I can feasibly integrate it into my ever-changing concepts of the Philippines.

Thanks, and I'll see you all around,

Hawke

"With knowledge comes understanding; with understanding, wisdom."

[Ray]

Welcome aboard…

Religion and particularly Catholicism is everywhere in the Philippines. It’s a Catholic nation with about 90% Christian and 80% Catholic. They have public prayers on the inter-island ferries for example and religious symbols are everywhere you look.

But I think you’ll also find that Catholics, including Filipinos, do not “preach” at anyone. Nobody is going to be telling you that you are going to hell and they aren’t going to try to convert you. Maybe it's a Canadian thing?

Most Filipinos practice their religion fairly regularly but not all are fanatics. There are many more who are Catholic in name only.

Marriages between Catholic Filipino girls and non-Catholics usually work out pretty well. As long as you aren’t anti-Catholic or mock their faith, they are quite tolerant of most all religious beliefs. When they say they prefer a God-fearing man, they mean someone who believes in a higher power, not necessarily a practicing Catholic.

There is a Muslim population in the Southern Philippines and a few of them would just as soon cut off your head, but they seem to get along fine for the most part.

If Catholics really bug you, then I would look in another country.

You can find a wealth of information about the Philippines and Filipino culture on the net or try to find a copy of Culture Shock! Philippines by Roces for a decent intro.

Ray

[Bear]

Welcome Nighthawke

You said three things that were of concern to me. 

Of course the religion issue which I think Ray has a good grasp on.  Note my wife decided to convert to my faith on her own and only the day after the wedding (we were married there) did her father try to get me to convert to catholicism and get me to promise I would not convert his daughter.  I didn't need to convert her, she did it on her on.  Once here in the states and we started meeting other Fil-Am couples here, we found many (no where near a majority) got together regularly for prayer meets.  Honey was invited many times but never pressured to attend.  My beliefs are strong so they don't even approach me but I'd say I truly do miss many of the pot-luck get-togethers they have in association with these prayer meets .  It is those religious beliefs they hold as a people that make them such strong family candidates for marriage and encourage their attitudes towards their spouses.  If you are not religious I think you won't have a problem meeting and marrying but don't try to change what created the characteristics we all desire and made your wife what she is!

The comment about honor.  They have strong respect given to differing castes (although I here them swear contentuously they don't even exist) and to their closest family and friends.  Eventually they will have it towards you (eventually) but be warned, most of the time I've seen naivete men who apply American standards to this relationship get their hearts handed to them after being ground up like hamburger meat.  Filipinas want a successful marriage and will respond to all your efforts that they feel are important.  The ones that they do not respond to you need only explain why it is important and you'll get a response.  Most likely the questions they don't answer they feel its your responsibility and they will respect your wishes on the issue as they will most everything you make a decision on.  BUT!  If you don't ask about something thats important to you and they they don't answer, then its your fault.  As stupid as that sounds it is a predominant attitude, especially with the "users".  So if you have an issue-desire-want-expectation-fear etc. you best get it on the table.

The last of course is the BSDM.  Most women from the provinces are not taught about sex and from what I can comprehend from what I've been told, most parents tell the girls their husbands will tell them what they want.  Believe me, they will quickly after marriage let you know what they do and do not like just as most ladies in the world will, and a good husband ends it there.  Most of your desires they will gladly and willingly fullfill (as you should theirs) until (and if they are Catholic) a baby is born - sex might end there if you can't get them to take birth control (which catholics consider a sin) simply because they do not want to care for more children.  Any desire of finding someone to accept BSDM are nil and none.  And getting guys here to introduce you to someone after mentioning that are the same.

The Bear Family

[Jeff S]

Hi Nighthawke and welcome aboard. I have to admit you sent me to Google for the BDSM comment. I guess I just don't keep up on the latest terminology. I went overseas for my first marriage in my early 30s and it has managed to last so far. It's an interesting adventure, more difficult and expensive than sticking locally, but the rewards are well worth the effort.

If it bothers you to have a religious wife, perhaps you should look in a Buddhist country. It's not so much a religion as a philosophy of living. It's one even a hardcore atheist couldn't argue with. Vietnam, Thailand, China and Japan all have substantial Buddhist populations. The only problem with these countries is that you have to deal with the language issue - but that's not an insurmountable one.

Anyway, looking forward to your participation.

- Jeff

[william3rd]

Thailand is a pretty easy country to work with. Most of the Buddhists actually get bibles in school. All religions are open there. Buddhism allows for alternative beliefs but state quite emphatically that you can not reach Nirvana (Heaven) if you do not follow the precepts of Buddhism. BTW- Buddhism reads a lot like the new testament EXCEPT it is 500 years older. Buddhism accepts Jesus as another Buddha (enlightened one)

My girlfriend told me a funny story from when she was in school. The Catholic missionary was allowed to address the class and gave them bibles. Before the address, the teacher told them that another religion was going to talk to them. The teacher went on to tell them that they didnt have to listen because they all knew that it wasnt true but if they didnt, they wouldnt get the free book.

So- the entire class listened with "rapt" attention. Everybody was happy, the missionary for his attentive audience and the children because they got something for free.

[Jeff S]

True, but the main difference is that Nirvana isn't somewhere you go after you die, nor is there a hell. In Buddhism neither Jesus nor Buddha are considered deities, just folks like us who achieved enlightenment. Most Buddhists do not have a mandate to convert every one around them either. They do have a mandate to make each day better than the last, though, so the continuous improvement makes most Buddhists easy to be around.

[jm21-2]

Nighthawke,

I think my experiences might be similar to yours. I'm about your age (more young guys here all the time it seems), and slowly got interested in this process after somewhat jokingly looking into Russian "mail order brides." After learning more about Russians and talking with a few, I don't feel they're really my cup of tea, at least for marriage, and have been reading up on Asian and Latin girls and countries here and elsewhere while I finish grad school, and trying to get in touch with some over programs like Skype.

I'm a pretty die-hard atheist, and after reading more about the PI I've figured it was probably a good idea to pass that one up (despite meeting a couple incredibly sweet Filipinas when I was living in California). I grew up in a very religious town and was always pressured to convert (my favorite story is that when I was very young my best friend had to ask for permission to  play with me because I was an atheist, and was only allowed to when he promised not to listen to anything I said about religion). I definitely have some hard feelings towards Christians in general. Also, times for religious worship have a practical impact, limiting your options on the weekends and potentially on vacations if your wife insists on going to church on Sundays. It's not fair to deny her her religion, and not fair for you to have to conform your life around her religion. I'd save myself a headache and skip it if you're opposed to her religion.

Also, from my experience, Muslim girls on the whole have more attractive qualities than Catholic girls, are in countries that seem more interesting to visit, and are more diverse in looks and locales. If I was going to marry a devoutly religious girl, it would definitely be Muslim, despite seemingly all conservative Muslim girls (and at least several governments, if you marry in their country) requiring conversion.

Anyways, I think Jeff's advice is probably the right idea if Christianity is a problem for you. There seem to be plenty of Buddhist or non-religious girls in other countries who also have values which are attractive to a lot of conservative western guys. Of course, there are a lot of cultural differences too, but that's a given.

My impression has been that girls from South America are also not particularly religious (which was a bit of a surprise to me, as here there is a stereotype that South Americans are all devout Catholics where I grew up). Might be worthwhile to browse the Latin board a bit as well if you're interesting in learning about all your options.

[william3rd]

Right- Nirvana is the state that you reach when you have achieved perfection and no longer have a need for an earthly body. Each life reincarnates and you move higher or lower depending on where you ended up after the acts that made up your life. . . . .

[Nighthawke]

I see from the responses I got that my words were misconstrued and/or misinterpreted, and I feel I should clarify, as they have disturbed me since I first read them.  It is in no way the fault of anyone that this happened; these things do happen.  It is much like seeing the front cover of a book and to try and develop a synopsis that's correct.  Very difficult!  Also, if anyone was bothered by my comments I apologize; it is not my intention to create any new enemies (or pseudo-enemies) elsewhere; I have enough here already.

First off, I have absolutely no issues with Catholics in general.  I have many friends who are Catholic and they've introduced me to their friends (who also are often Catholic), which probably accounts for the amount of people I've encountered who have presented that holier-than-thou attitude I find so aggravating.  Mind you, that attitude is not just limited to Catholics; I've learned that concept quite well.  And I'm the first to admit that Catholics (along with other organized religions) promote wonderful family values.  I myself am a confirmed Christian (though I do not go to church any longer) and I know that without my involvement in the church in my early years, I would not have the deep values I have today.  As I mentioned, I was merely trying to get an idea of how religion plays a part in the typical Filipina's life.  I did not intend to create the strong reactions I did.

With regard to the idea of honor, I was trying to refer to their behaviour and attitudes.  From what I've learned it seems that a good majority of  Filipinas (no doubt thanks in part to their Catholic beliefs) have a strong moral sense, and high respect (as you mentioned Bear), among others.  Of course this is not to say that this is always the case; I am quite aware of the amount of scammers out there (it was the notion that frightened me off way back when).  It was these values and beliefs that helped to attract me as I share them.  Instead of using the idea of "dishonor" and such, perhaps the term "immoral" would suit better?

Regarding the idea of BDSM, I repeat that I "toyed" with the idea (no pun intended).  I never once got involved in anything that would fall into that category; I merely gathered knowledge about it.  What should be understood is that the past decade or so for me has been immensely confusing.  I have always had more traditional beliefs than just about every single woman I've met.  In an attempt to understand my feelings and beliefs, I turned my attention to BDSM, seeing if I could find the answers there.  However, the more I learned about that sort of the thing, the more repellant and improper it seemed to be.  You see, I had wanted to find a mate who would give me a sort of sense of control, but maintain their moral beliefs and sense of dignity (in other words, not being a slave).  I also learned long ago that I am deeply empathic; that is to say that I tend to feel strongly what those people around me feel.  It is for this idea that could never cause undue pain (emotional or otherwise) to anybody in my life.  Too much of BDSM revolved around doing this very thing, which only repelled me further.  I have since turned away from the idea of this type of life.  And after having done so, I also came to a realization: in my naivete (and perhaps a little arrogance too), I had only thought of and focused on women in the West.  Once I had opened my eyes to the prospect of a foreign woman, everything just started to click.  The ladies in the philippines seemed to (and still do for that matter), for the most part match my desires and needs and to compliment me well.

As for sex, I understand that the women there generally haven't been told anything regarding it, and that works well for me.  I prefer to lead in any case: there again, it gives me a feeling of control (even if it might only be illusional!).  But even with the birth control being an issue, there are many Catholics (devout even!) I know that do not consider it a sin, but merely a practical course.  Of course I realize that the beliefs in the two cultures are different, but as many religious people pick and choose from the beliefs available to them, does the same not happen over there?

I've been reading everything you've been saying Bear, and you should know that I consider you quite knowledgeable about these ladies from the Philippines.  So for that, maraming salamat (that goes for everyone else on the board too!).  I hope this mess hasn't damaged any chances of developing a friendship.  It's simply that I just don't see any topic as off limits, or any question too stupid for that matter.  I sometimes forget that others don't think the same way.

Hawke

"With knowledge comes understanding; with understanding, wisdom."

[william3rd]

A word of advice, stranger. . . . .

Deal with your control issues here at home before you try to take them overseas.

I doubt that many of the men turned to asian or latin women from a sense of control. In fact, I dont think that any real man looks at control when he goes on the search.  It is the look that attracts for many and then the interaction and has nothing to do with control.

I find the BDSM references to be troubling. . . .. .

[michaelb]

In the immortal words of the late, great Hound Dog, "Before you begin this endeavor, get a check up from the neck up"....... In other words, if you have "issues" that you need to "resolve", a bride (foreign or domestic, Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Hindu, Pagan or atheist) isn't going to solve them for you, but could make them worse and hurt her in the process.

Now maybe that's NOT the way you meant to come across, but it kind of looks like you do have some things to sort out before getting serious with anyone.

[Nighthawke]

I doubt that many of the men turned to asian or latin women from a sense of control.

Ok, let me try this again.  It's not so much a sense of control as a feeling of being empowered.  That help?
MOD: The attitude makes me feel important and needed.

Now maybe that's NOT the way you meant to come across, but it kind of looks like you do have some things to sort out before getting serious with anyone.

You're right, that isn't the way I intended to come across.  This is why I find it so difficult to explain any of my beliefs: a good majority of people seem to have trouble understanding what I mean and misunderstandings seem to occur frequently.  Oh well.  Though I admit I feel like I'm constantly having to defend myself here.

Hawke

[william3rd]

You want to take care of her when she gets here?

OK- that is normal. But- after she moves out of the child phase. . . .

I did that with my ex-wife. Help her succeed, help her adapt to the new country. OK- that is a given.

Wherever you go, you are getting a life partner and you just have to help her get up to speed.

That is not the prime reason to be looking abroad.

[Ray]

Hawke,

What mess? I didn’t think any of the responses you got were particularly strong and you don’t have to apologize.

We talk openly and plainly here so feel free to bring up any subject or ask any question. Some responses may have seemed blunt but we are only trying to get to the point. Political correctness is not practiced here.

Anyway, you did clarify some of your thoughts, so that’s fine. That’s how good communication works.

Did we answer your questions? Feel free to follow up on anything.

Ray

[Bear]

Sounds like you have similar issue as most American Men - a feeling of lack of security when dealing with females, maybe a little of a lack of confidence on how things will work out. I think I probably came across the same way when I first started out.  Especially after 25 years with Beelzebub's granddaughter.  But once my wife got hold of me most of those concerns when away - I was actually thinking about that issue just the other day had how much my attitude has changed since then.  Remember if your not just a plain stupid idiot the girl your conversing with has many of the same concerns and wants as bad, or more, for a successful relationship.  The users will spot an idiot from thousands of miles away so don't be one and ask lots of questions.  Try to trip them up and let them know you will try to and why.  The ones who are serious will still be there all the others will disappear.

The Bear Family