Engagement Protocol

[machin67]

I am getting ready to make my second trip to Colombia soon.  This time I am not going just to have fun, but am going to utilze Amor De Cartagena and Jamie's Agency in BAQ to look for someone special for long term relationship, marriage if everything works out.

I am not saying that I will be finding someone for sure during this trip (I will be there 28 days), but just in case, I have the following question:

If I find someone who really seems like "the one", what is the best approach to take from that point on?  I have been corresponding like crazy with many of the girls and many of them seem like perfect wife and friend material.....so it is not out of the question that once I get there, if the chemistry is perfect, I might want to get engaged.

If that happens, what should I do?  Buy a really nice ring there, give it to her and then come home to complete paperwork, await the visa process for fiance?  Buy a modest ring then give her the real deal once she comes to the States?  Buy her a modest ring and only get her the real deal once we are finally married?

After reading many posts on this site, I am a little afraid of giving a $5K ring to someone like I would probably do to someone here.  I am not saying that I wouldn't trust the person I am bringing over on the fiance visa, but something that nice is almost tempting them to do something crazy when many of the girls are in such a desperate situation economically over there.

What do you think?  What have others done in this situation?

Like I said earlier, I am going to Cartagena and BAQ......I have been told by many of the girls I am corresponding with themselves to not trust anyone.....that there are so many scammers out there.  They especially said that about Cartagena.....but of course the girls that were saying those things to me also said they would never do anything like that.

Would it offend the girl if you bought the nice ring there, (because I heard the prices and quality were outstanding) and you brought it back to the States for "safekeeping", then gave it to her when she arrived on the fiance vi

[catz]

machin67,

 Do not make any decision while there! Do not let the excitement of the trip and the thrill of the girl take over your thoughts.

 You need to enjoy and come back home to let things settle down in your head. This is not a rush decision and there is no need to make it one.

 Go, have fun, meet and enjoy the time with the ladies. Do not make any life altering decisions while there! You must give yourself some time and some space to let it all sink in.

Catz

[bundy_138]

I bought my novia a $8,000 ring here in the USA, gave it to her in Cali, but she doesn't wear it.  Way to dangerous to walk around with that thing.  If your secial girl is smart, she will understand how dangerous it is to wear something expensive around.  I'd buy her something modest and then go all out once she gets here.  Jewelery is not that much cheaper there.  I didn't see much of a difference.

Bundy

[sean126]

Ditto on what Catz said.

Every time people meet someone new that they get along well with...they rush to judgement entirely too soon.  Talking on the phone forces you to take physical stuff out of the equation so you can concentrate on communication, talking little problems out and basically getting to know one another better.   

[Dan Las Vegas]

Slow down a bit and make a few visits prior to making such a life changing decision such as deciding to get engaged,Sean makes a good point on working on communication, getting to know each other etc. While there are people whom have had success getting engaged on short notice, I would venture a uneducated guess that the success rate may be higher for those couples that have taken their time to develop the relationship instead of getting engaged and married in a very short time period. This is not to say that that can't happen as there are success stories in every time frame.

Just my two centavos worth and your milage might vary.

[daytrader]

I'd wait 6 months or more before giving her anything that could be interpreted as a engagement ring (the younger she is the longer the wait.); Spend a fair amount of time with her relatives on a couple different trips down before discussing an engagement. 

If you marry a girl down there, it is very important to have a good relationship with her familia; they can have a big effect on your gal's happiness in the States if things are not handled properly, plus your girl will likely struggle with homesickness while in the States the first couple years.  The relatives back home will need to be a support mechanism. 

Your post shows that you are not familiar with the prevailing culture down there;  I think you need to learn the culture and appreciate it before you start making any decisions;  some outside reading on dating a woman from another culture is also recommended.  Slow way, way D-O-W-N ! 

If you are dealing with a reputable agency in Colombia they should be attempting to give you the same advice, otherwise they are showing they are unprofessional, IMO. 

If you meet a gal that insists on a expensive ring, I'd stay away from her; the good latinas in Colombia place a high value on relationships and communication and shy away from obvious signs of materialism - the good ones will drop you in a second if you brag about your car, house, boat, jewelry, to them it's a turn off.  A nice ring can be given to her once she is in the States, where it should be much safer for her to wear. 

If you want a materialistic me first babe, just stay in the US and get one in Miami or LA. 

Bracelets, necklaces work fine and they are much less expensive (except for the recent exchange rate plunge) in Colombia than the US.  You will need to ask around where a jewelry store is that the locals use to get good prices, otherwise you will likely pay way too much.  Again, a professional agency will know these tips, IMO. 

If you get a chance, please do a trip report in the Latin trip report forum here...due to recent postings many of us will be anxiously awaiting your details 

DayTrader

[Looking4Wife]

1.  While it may be tempting to propose while you're there meeting these women for the first time, try to avoid the temptation.  The best way to do that is to decide before you go that you won't do it.

I was extremely tempted to propose to one of the girls I met on my first trip, shortly after meeting her.  Thank God that Jamie and both of his translators talked me out of it, even though they all felt that we were a great match.  After dating her down there for 3 weeks, I knew that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life with her.

2.  Concerning the ring thing, I can only share with you my limited experience. 

My wife was not the least bit concerned with an expensive ring.  In fact she was against wearing anything that even looked expensive because of the dangers of wearing it on the streets in Colombia.  Therefore we bought some inexpensive, but very unique, matching wedding bands at Exito in Barranquilla.

Turns out, she doesn't much care for wearing expensive jewelry in the US, either.  Works for me, that's money that can be invested elsewhere in the relationship.

3.  Why spend a fortune on a ring for a girl that, you may not even be married to (i.e. fiancee), and in an environment where its unsafe to wear the jewelry? 

I dated a girl from a very wealthy family in Barranquilla.  She wears expensive jewelry.  But her mother was calling her checking in on her on a consistent basis... part of that was concern for her safety due to the attention that the jewelry attracts (according to her old high school friend).

Have a safe, blessed, and productive trip!

[chizz]

For me personally, I would never marry anyone I haven't known for at least a year. I wouldn't do it here, so I see no need to do it in colombia. At my age, i know exactly what it is I want in a wife, and so a year is a good benchmark for me to get to know the woman I am interested in. I think that because I and many other men have so much to offer and lose, it's very important to make the right decision, and not rush it. It is very easy to get caught up in emotion down there, in fact my first trip to barranquilla several years ago, i thought I had to give a ring to the girl before I left, I got caught up in emotion like everyone else, and it felt good. Ultimately, It fell through, but it was as much my fault as it was hers. The agency at the time encouraged men to get engaged before you left, don't know if it changed but it was like that back then. But my suggestion is take your time, and don't just concentrate on what she says, but what her actions are telling you. Actions speak louder than words.
Chizz

[bigstew33]

Wow these guys are giving great advice to you so far.  I have been there 2 times already and the first time I was all crazy about a girl, committed to her.  I didn't give her a ring but I did give her a little money.  Not a lot like 400k.  I was going to even send her some money every month.  I wrote a testimonial for the agency I went with.  It got sent out to all the people on their mailing list.  Well This guy from Canada emails me and tells me how she was trying to scam him, and to beware.  Well I got lucky on that point.  My second trip I met a great girl.  Solid wife material, but her mother was against the idea of her marrying a gringo.  Guess who won?  Momma did.  So take your time for sure.  Generally the Colombian woman are not so fast, and don't need marriage right away so a bit of time is a good thing

Good luck

[utopiacowboy]

I can't argue with the advice given to take your time. Although it's not what I did. I corresponded with one woman, met her in person two months later, and married her two months after that. We've been married for almost four years and we're still nuts about each other. So sometimes you can break the "rules" and get away with it.

[Ray]

Hi machin,

Despite all of the advice to slow down, I somehow have a feeling that you may very well get engaged during your trip anyway 

As far as the ring, I wouldn’t worry about it until and unless you do decide to do the engagement thing. Pop the question to the lady without a ring, ask her parents for their blessing, and then take her shopping for a modestly priced ring. Don’t spend big bucks and do let her help pick one out. Whatever you do, DO NOT take the ring away from her so you can bring it back to the U.S. for safekeeping! And if you should later break off the engagement, don’t expect the ring back.

You mentioned paperwork for a fiancée visa. Here’s some tips to help prepare in advance.

*****
Download a copy of Form I-129F (Fiancée Visa Petition) from the CIS Web site and study the instructions carefully. Download and print a couple of copies of Form G-325A (Biographic Information) to bring with you.

If you don’t already have them, order some original certified copies of your birth certificate and any divorce decrees.

Gather the following documentation during your trip to bring back with you:

Have her complete one 4-part Form G-325A and sign/date all pages. Make extra copies.

You will need a recent color passport photo of your fiancée. Get several for backups.

Get a certified copy of her birth certificate with raised seal. She will need several of these eventually. If she has any children, get a copy of their birth certificate also.

If she was previously married, get a certified copy of proof of legal termination.

If she has a passport, get a photocopy of the picture ID page (thanks William).

Get English translations of documents if needed.

Take a lot of photos of both of you together, preferably with date stamps.

Save your airline ticket copies, boarding pass stubs, hotel receipts, or whatever else you have as evidence that you were there with her.

Save a few original letters in the envelope with postmarks, both from she and you to each other.

You will need her to sign and date an original statement of mutual intent to marry. You can type up a statement from you and your fiancée stating your mutual intention to marry within 90 days of her arrival in the U.S. and then have both of you sign and date it.
*****

Good luck,

Ray