plan A and plan B found out about each other.

[Ray]

Ray, the point is an 18yo is only a consenting adult by our current laws. In some places a 14yo can marry...so that makes 14yos consenting adults?

Oh come on jm, don't play stupid with me for heaven's sake. I thought you were a lawyer.

Look up the law in states where they allow a 14-year-old to marry and I think you'll find that parental and/or judicial consent is required to secure a marriage license.

Sheesh! 

[singlefather no more]

SF, I have been posting here a little too long to be a troll. Don't get all touchy-feely please.

Ray, the point is an 18yo is only a consenting adult by our current laws. In some places a 14yo can marry...so that makes 14yos consenting adults? BCC and I were both making the point that although our laws consider an 18yo a fully mature adult (except for drinking) that's really not the case. And duh, seeing a 60yo and a 20yo is gross. Just like seeing 2 guys making out on the street is gross. You're never going to convince me a 20yo who's marrying a 60yo did it for his looks.

Heruaman, I generally agree with Jeff. I agree with the general principles he set forth in his post. I think the cases in this thread stretch those principles too far.

Cbear & Piglett: OK. The most important things to you are youth and virginity. I get it already. In my book, that means "meat puppet." Good luck to you both. Hopefully you'll man up and admit it someday (as I believe Piglett has).

This thread has gone on too long and I shouldn't have started in again. This will be my last post here.

Jm,

I said you guys were starting to sound like Trolls, Counselor JM not were Trolls.. No don't worry we won't get all touchy feely over you.

.

[Ray]

SF, I have been posting here a little too long to be a troll. Don't get all touchy-feely please.

Ray, the point is an 18yo is only a consenting adult by our current laws. In some places a 14yo can marry...so that makes 14yos consenting adults? BCC and I were both making the point that although our laws consider an 18yo a fully mature adult (except for drinking) that's really not the case. And duh, seeing a 60yo and a 20yo is gross. Just like seeing 2 guys making out on the street is gross. You're never going to convince me a 20yo who's marrying a 60yo did it for his looks.

Heruaman, I generally agree with Jeff. I agree with the general principles he set forth in his post. I think the cases in this thread stretch those principles too far.

Cbear & Piglett: OK. The most important things to you are youth and virginity. I get it already. In my book, that means "meat puppet." Good luck to you both. Hopefully you'll man up and admit it someday (as I believe Piglett has).

This thread has gone on too long and I shouldn't have started in again. This will be my last post here.

Just a couple of more comments on jm’s reply, which I found to be quite revealing.

Does the law really say that an 18-year-old is “fully mature”, or did you just make that part up?

So you really think that the sight of a 60-year-old man with a 20-year-old wife is the same as a couple of fags making out in public? I think that goes to your REAL motivation in this whole age discussion. I think all that baloney about maturity, reason, etc. is just a cover to mask your disgust with the idea of seeing an older gentleman with a young wife. Do you feel like puking when you look at Bear’s avatar? Just curious… 

Now why in the world would I want to convince you that a young lady married her older husband for his looks? Is that how you are going to pick a mate? Based solely on looks? Is that how you expect your future mate to pick you, based only on your looks? Don’t you think that is rather shallow?

And you are accusing Cbear and Piglett of being interested primarily in youth and virginity, while you imply that “looks” should be the primary criteria? Why not just admit that you find the thought of these guys marrying a 20-year-old virgin akin to 2 gay men going at it on the street? But I guess you already did, subconsciously.

Well, I have to get back to my “meat puppet”. Who are you spending the night with, Rosy and her sisters again? 

Ray

[Bear]

Do you feel like puking when you look at Bear’s avatar? Just curious… 

Geee!!! Thanks Ray!

And you are accusing Cbear and Piglett of being interested primarily in youth and virginity, while you imply that “looks” should be the primary criteria?

I think I'm seeing an intersting backdrop here.  The youth of today think virginity is only about control and not about commitment.  I'll freely admit I wanted a virgin and as we've discussed in previous thread, women don't seem to care so much about a man's virginity - in fact most prefer he isn't.  But why do some here think wanting a woman who saves herself for one man as being a 'meat puppet'?  Why is it this these things are only seen as a negative and not as the awesome positive that they really are?!  Do you think the fact my wife was strong enough and respecting of good Christian values as to keep her self morally clean and fit that it means she did it so some man could control her?  Wow that logic just boggles the mind?!  Strong, righteous and moral means weak and controlled?  Duh?

I tell you what.  If you want to see me in absolute control of a 'meat puppet' you'd better buy a whore and pay her very well and then spend a thousand times that much to even get my wife to let me out of the house and then find me a new place to stay cause she won't let me back in.  Control - any guy who thinks he controls any woman is an idiot.  You're in control when they tell you that you are and not a moment longer and you'd had better do it right too!  They have their ways!!!

The Bear Family

[bcc_1_2]

JMs done here but I will point out some philosophical differences he probably has with you both. First what I've noticed is that on the issue of age everyone seems to agree when it comes to the latin side... and even probably with countries like Thailand and China... but when it comes to the philippines we are told its different (cultural differences etc). I've noticed with the online personals in China and Thailand that the girls are specifying a more narrow age range of their potiental partner in a lot of cases. The question of do you chalk it up to culture or is it a lack of rights or the economics is something that time will answer. As women get more rights and better economic conditions you could easily make the argument that women are more selective in age, looks, and the overall mate. Studies certainly suggest that they wait to get married until a later age.

JM admit looks are important but he also has said that the whole package is important (he wants an intellectual equal). The guy is a lawyer so that might be difficult with a girl just out of high school.

But just to be perfectly clear neither of us said we had a problem with middle age and older guys going for younger women. So the theory that we just can't handle that women want older guys just doesn't fly... Because we don't chase teens.... so those older guys chasing 23,24,25 year old women would actually be directly competing with us... which was what we suggested.

I've seen the online personals and they tend to have several times as many girls from the philippines than they do from other asian countries. So the competition for these women is certainly fierce amoungst themselves. When their ecomonic conditions improve... and they gain more rights if they still chase old men..  I'll be the first to agree with anyone saying I told you so.

As for the question about Bear and his wife... something tells me that baiting someone to attack another poster isn't very fair. He's been honest so far... and if he told the truth... I doubt that would go over well. I will say that if you go to the AFA website and look at the grandpas dancing with the teens.... yes I do find that gross. But you can't accuse me of trying to get in the way of a 45 year old man dating a 25 year old. Believe it or not I'm pretty non judgemental. The reason I even jumped in on this was all the talk about teen virgins. That was pretty weird and I noticed a lot of clarifying since those original statements. It turned into an age range and the reason it was important she was a virgin was because she said so... and he wanted and honest girl. We are free to do whatever we want but you can hardly blame us for criticizing some of those original statements.

[oldog1984]

bear i like this pieces
Control - any guy who thinks he controls any woman is an idiot.  You're in control when they tell you that you are and not a moment longer and you'd had better do it right too!  They have their ways!!!     

bear they do let you control one thing and that's going to the bathroom but everything else you better make sure it's ok. or YOU WILL HAVE HELL TO PAY.bear I wish you and the family the best..  oldog

[Bear]

Wow you were lucky.  My 'ex' even controlled the bathroom.  Ya know put the toilet seat down, replace the toilet paper, while your in there take out the trash, don't for get to spray. 

My wife is so sweet most of the time, I never think about being mad or upset I just think "oh well, thats the way she is" and I try to adapt and understand.  Her, whoa, if she quiet, time to think about moving to a warmer climate like Anartica. 

The Bear Family

[Dave H]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB14S55QGto

[Cbear]

Dave, I don't think that video applies to me. That guy makes more money than me and my girl can't play a banjo, or whatever that thing is.

[Jeff S]

It's a shamisen, a traditional Japanese three stringed instrument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BhOzd988JI

[michaelb]

Pretty good, but what is she picking int with? Looks like an ice scraper for car windows. So, are buskers common in Japan?

[Jeff S]

That's a traditional shamisen pick. I think they're made from some kind of bird feather. I know kotos are played with finger picks made from feathers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75uAD-XYs6U

Yes, street musicians are fairly common in Japan. This guy is pretty famous. He hangs out in the Osaka train station.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_3YSFHWAJE

[Bob_S]

Pretty good, but what is she picking int with? Looks like an ice scraper for car windows. So, are buskers common in Japan?

According to wikipedia, it is called a bachi and is typically made of wood.  The ones I've seen in samurai dramas look to be made of lacquered and polished bamboo or oak.

[joemc58]

I would use this girl for plan C


          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MINcgqI0Ko&eurl=http://mybnn.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4253

                   

                                   

[Dave H]

I would use this girl for plan C
                                    

Hey Fester,

Great minds think alike!

Fester Jr.

[Dave H]

Hey Jeff,

Unbelievable talent! Asians are amazing! You already know of my devotion to the 12 Girls Band from China! Okay...so there's 13.

Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emmc2c7lo-k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXqSPJpuDBM&feature=related

[Dave H]

How about a Japanese reggae band.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy517UOS1Cc

One of my favorite Japanese all girl groups is Pistol Valve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya5zSXDh9pI&feature=related

[evoltnvii]

I would use this girl for plan C
                                   

WOWOWEE!!!! Valerie is soo hot but can you really forget about all the others like RR, Mariel, Lovely, Luningning, Mariposa and Milagring. I LOVE FILIPINAS LOL

[Bear]

I LOVE FILIPINAS LOL

I love a FILIPINA!!  (couldn't handle more than one! )

The Bear Family

[Jeff S]

You can't talk about Asian women musicians without mentioning all of the fantastic violinists that Japan has produced. Here are several of my favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6HW7z_KW6c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3ESJpcSVxY

And of course Midori who has been playing internationally since she was about 8 years old. I met her a couple of years ago and saw her perform live:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM-vsDYR5ps

[Dave H]

You can't talk about Asian women musicians without mentioning all of the fantastic violinists that Japan has produced.

Hey Jeff,

Very true! Excellent! My favorite instrument is the organ (pump, pipe, electronic, all types except man's organ! ).

Not bad for a 10 year old Japanese girl!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pS5xzOWbwo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-Gztizq_4U&feature=channel_page

[Jeff S]

Yep. They start them young in Japan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXjbz4TQOyM

[alec73aussie]

the story at the beginning of this thread reminded me of something that happened to me some years ago

By luck I met a nice girl on line who was about my age (we were both early 30') and who lived near my area. She explained to me how she recently had been in a bad relationship, but after talking a few times on the phone she agreed to meet me.

A few days before our date, I remember getting an email from a different girl. It was unexpected as I had never made contact with this new girl before and I was not used to getting unsolicited attention. Anyway, I wanted to reply out of courtesy, but wasn’t sure how to reject in a polite way so I made up some response like “you seem like a nice girl but I don’t think we are a match because I am a player”. Yes, I will be the first to admit it was a dumb ass thing to say, but I think I was in a hurry at the time and just wanted to give a response with a reason.

The next day, I remember receiving an email from the first girl (my date) saying she has been hurt before and “didn’t need a player in her life” and that I shouldn’t bother her. Well my jaw just dropped. I didn’t know what to do. I quickly realised my mistake and what had happened. I felt like I just stepped on my you know what but I was also pissed because of the way I was judged without question.
 It’s really hard to gain the trust of a girl sometimes and when you only barely know each other it probably not worth the trouble to fix. It stung a bit, and when I told the guys at work they gave me the nickname “player” which hung around for years.

BTW I actually believe the second girl was a separate person as apposed to the one girl using separate profiles. Work mates explained to me how girl friends are doing this type of thing to test guys out but it was news to me.