From a Russian board. Long...

[blockbuster]

Neo said:
This one is as old as the hills.

back in the day the whole debacle was fuelled by agency BS that any fat, short, broke guy with no social ability or redeeming features could score a 21 year old hot russian girl with legs up to her ears.

lets no dress this up, post soviet Russia was a financial disaster zone, and as soon as the iron curtain a good number of people wanted to get out as soon as they could. a lot of people simply wanted to leave for the sake of freedom, travel restrictions and an opressive police state meant that they wanted to live the way we do, and TBH having sseen some of the laughable soviet propoganda films about the decadent west they should have known to an average young russian they were like club 19 -40 adverts and served only to fuel their desire to leg it to the west.

Women are pragmatic creaters at best, and russian women are super pragmatic, they know their worth, they know what they can use and if putting up a front to some pug ugly no-mark from the USA got them out of the mire then they would take it on teh chin. and who could really blame them. what where the alternatives? horror story abound of girls going missing into teh sex trade after going the "au pair job int he west route" - it was a mess, pure and simple. and the frankly distateful "socials" or "meat market" as i like to call them where a procession of social losers walked down a line of too pretty and too desperate young women sadly resigned to their fate before saying "she'll do" and going up to the room to sign the visa paperwork frankly still astnishes me.

Those little nametags just give it all away for me.

Men as a breed are fundamentally stupid, and doing what is right, socially acceptable or morally good for us comes a close seconds to getting laid by 17 year olds with big breasts. How much we can bury our genetic predisposition to walk up to the nearest hot mila and try and mount her leg is down to our own personal standards, as has been pointed out and lets face it we have all met them - a lot of guys on the plane happen to be social rejects and therefore are so conformity doesnt mean a fig to them.

A lot of guys BS themselves, and as ar esult BS others. you are right, everyone else can see they are being played, but they cannot face up to teht truth due to male pride that the only way they could score a hot girl was by paying for it.

I've dated strings of hot Russian women, and hot american women and english and italians and so on, because im a young guy, i drive a sports car and i have a good job, and the one thing i know from every single girl regardless of her nationality is she really is hping her pin up prince like brad pitt is going to sweep her off her feet and i have yet to meet a 25 year old victoria secrets model who is dreaming about passionate sex on her honeymoon with a pensioner or a butt ugly super nerd.

The social norm is that pretty much within a socre of 2 up or down we all are programmed to mate with a partner at the same level of our attractiveness and standing. So there is a acceptable boundary of age, physique and desisrability we are all in our comfort zone with, any less and we feel we have undersold our worth and want some other sort of compensation for that and any more and we feel that we must be compensating them in some way and it leads to insecurity.

Reality is you never hear from these guys again is because the girsl server their time in ugly guy hell then as soon as they get wherever tehy are going then they catch the eye in college, or at work or down the gym of some studmuffin who is only too happy to rescue this hot damsel from her terrible life with Frankenstein. One thing i know about all my young make buck friends is while they don't want to get on a plane and go to russia and think the idea of dating on the internet or through an agency somehow makes them look a failure the minute yours, or my super hot partner arrives they are tripping over their tongue to get it on with her, her sister, her friends or anyone she vaguely met who looks the same.

I dont understand the mentality of guys trying to delude themselves that somehow women by design of culture have a different desire mechanism by accident of birth. A woman will find a man sexually desirable based on genetic code - there is a world of difference between the laws of attraction and the laws of financial attraction, so any guy who is out looking for a wife that young when he is that old needs to face the fact that he is using his economic status to buy her.

Now a man who can admit to that i have no problem with, but i agree entirely that trying to BS yourself and others that its normal, and she loves you adn all that is just delusional.

And why do guys dress up the young woman thing as love, mutual understanding and all that? the only reason to find a young woman desriable is on the basis of her sexual attraction as a fertile young woman with a firm body and youthful glow. BEcause when it comes to education, conversation and emotional maturity women her senior will always outrank her.

What is happening of course is most of these guys for whatever reason where socially outcast from the opposite sex for the period of age they are no targeting at - so they never actually experienced having a sexual relationship with a 18 year old or 21 year old and they are trying to use their economic or whatever status they have to get back that missing experience they feel cheated out of. Whereas most guys are capable of progressing on and having experienced a string of sexual encounters with young women and moved forward and realised the pleasures of women as they get older, these nerdovirgins are still at the starting gate.

Now there is an acceptable line, all men will pursue a younger women to a certain degree and thats healthy. We all know men are less mature, less rational and less advanced year for year than women of the same age, and the reality of the difference between men and women is that men can still be sexually active beyond their 50's when due to the menopause women fall off the blocks then and often have little or nos exual appetite. so for many guys this is a real problem, look at sex addict micky douglas...... so in that case for a man who is sexually virile at 55 its reasonable to pursue a women of 35 who is in her sexual prime because they still have something to offer. What is probably not reasonable is for him to use that to then pursue a woman of 25 because its hard to justify what a 55 year old man has in common with a 25 year old women because a 25 year old woman has probably still not had her fill of sexual experience with a younger man, whereas a 35 year old woman may well have had a younger man who could not perform or satisfy her sexually due to his limited experience just as the 55 year old guy may not have the stamina to keep up with the 5 times a night 7 nights a week appetite of a 25 year old nympho.

People will always use whatever arguments they can find to simply support and justify their behaviour however wrong they know it is. it so happens that the whole FSU thing has given a lot of men a lot of "reasons" to feel they are behaving in an acceptable way.

Young men in russia are notorious for being bad husbands and bad partenrs because they have got the keys to the candy shop and like all men they are hungry at that age, and women of course in that age group are looking towards making a stable life partner connection because they accept a woman in her 20s is at her most physically desriable and sexual desirable stage and therefore capable of attracting the very best quality mate she can, but i asked a lot of RW about what age was ideal and all teh girls up to 25 said a guy between 30-40 was best because he was young enough and energetic enough to keep up with them and satisfy them sexually and was young enough to have the energy to be a good father. most women will take a guy up to 10 years their senior as a "Normal" situation, because usually they are looking towards a man who has already sowed his oats, become financially stable and is ready to commit. most women accept a mans needs to satisfy his sexual desires with multiple partenrs over an extended period and almost all would prefer they did that in theri 20s before they met them so they wre ready to commit.

For a woman who is very mature then a 15-20 year age gap may be acceptable because she is quite old for her years or the guy is very youthful, maybe he has kept his figure, works, out has a lot of energy and does a lot of sports and his still really desriable. Problem is a lot of guys see taht and don't think that it includes them and despite being overweight with heart problems think that its ok. again, teh devil is in teh detail.

Now anything over 20 years and you are into a new world, its inevitable that economic or other factors will come into play, but it hasto be said that it depends of the ages of the respective parties. 35 woman with 55 is acceptable but 25 with 50 clearly is pushing it, 18 with 38 still works if the guy is fit but 22 with 45 looks bad. 40 with 65 is not really an issue but 30 to 60 really could be.

its a case by case basis because if the woman is divorced with kids then she will have a different set of values in what she is looking for, maybe the guy and the women both have very little sexual desire so a fairly platonic companionship relationship is their end goal in which case a 40 year old and 65 year old would be fine because they might share some really common goals.

But one thing im entirely clear on is that a much older guy such as 55 plus who is heading towards the twilight of hsi life who is actively pursuing a 20-25 year old who hs not even begun to live her life is some one who is clearly motivated by a selfish desire to sexually conquest anotehr young women before he is past it, is in need of a ego boost to restore his male pride that "hes still got it" and is desperately trying to hang on the rails of a fast sinking ship.

Knowing the attitudes of modern women now in russia i would also say he is on a titanic collision course. I spoke to agency owners at length about this and they all agree that these guys wille nd up miserable, bitter and broke for the experience, and they shake their head because there are so many decent, attractive sexually desirable russian women in their 30s and 40's that are much more suitable matches, will make much mroe rewarding partners and bring some happiness to the guy in his old age, tehy are also much likely to be prepred to give the care and loyalty needed if the old guy runs into health problems.

At the end of the day we live our lives each as we see fit, the women are motivated to do as they want and if htere is something in it for them, be it a scam, money or whatever and the guy is deluding himself then i really have no sympathy - he is clearly a victim of his own vanity and should rightly pay for what he is taking.

As for the ugly guys and virginnerds, you know they are falling into the same trap, because all they want is the sort of fantasy girl they have been dreaming of from looking at porno mags for a decade or more, and its a little boy fantasy of a real world sex doll to play with that usually has no basis in love, respect, affection or mutual itnerest or compatability. and all such liasons are doomed to failure.

Instead, they need to accept that without some serious plastc surgery and trips to the gym, hollywood smile techs and personal shoppers t armani they need to shop in their own aisle. THe RW sites are stock fullof very nice, very intelligent and very good matches that may not look like victoria secrets models but will more than likely make them a much better and happier long term partner than some smoking natasha in her FXXK me boots and thong.

But since males are ruled by vanity, pride and sexual desire i dont see this will ever change unless someone comes along and castrates us all.

my best advice to horndog nerds is to go to amsterdam with 5000 bucks for week and blow yourself out screwing as many 20' something young hookers as your money will get you - get it all out of your siystem until you are so sick of the sight of tit, ass and pXXy that you cant pee without pain for a month then you will maybe realise what sex is really all about and the difference between a quick bang and a deep and meaningful lovemaking session with someone who cares for you deeply. Then i think you would be ready to start looking for a suitable lfie partner.
good luck to all who are right thinking, well adjusted and thinking with more than their next sexual conquest.

As for the rest of the guys who know the score, just shake your heads fellas, being a well adjusted male with good sense of perspective is a rare thing and the sort of girls these billys are getting you just dont want and no right thinking, decent RW is ever going to even give them te time of day

[william3rd]

Well, the agency BS hasnt changed. . .  you too can meet your soul mate and live happily ever after in just ten days. no fuss no muss no english. . . oh sure.

Very profound post from neo. . . .

[SocialDreg]

The fallacy of this argument is that any relationship is going to endure.  Marry a woman 40 years younger or 40 years older.  Who cares?   With high divorce rates and unhappy marriages, do what you want to do. 

Money is always going to be an issue.

The post appears to be written by a woman.  Life isn't really fair for women.  When they age they have difficulty attracting younger men.  Men with some cash can attract younger women.  If it is for the cash . so what.  It is not going to last anyway....  same thing if a girl is attracted to a younger, handsome guy.  That probably isnt going to last also

Live and let live

[william3rd]

Neo is a man. The balance of his posts are on RWD.

And he is correct about the socials. Actually, he is probably being kind to the men and the women who attend them.

[blockbuster]

 SD, What made you think Neo was a woman? He's stating what he sees and has been a Russian traveler for over 10 years. He's also engaged. Because he's male doesn't make him blind to the reasons he feels there are so many failures. His reality may be hard to swallow and lots of people give him a hard time.  But ironically guys buy the agency BS hook and nail, but will scoff at the sound advice this guy gives.

 Jaime who is an agency owner recently wrote

" If you were familiar with my prior writings you would see I am on record in stating that most of the women lie and most of the Colombian women in Colombia are not suitable marriage material for my typical client.  Your objective for coming to Colombia to find a wife should be to find the gems of Colombia not your average Colombian woman. Guys who come down to meet 1 or 2 girls are doomed for failure 90% of the time. The answer to the high percentage of unsuitable Colombian women is to meet many women within your criteria to increase the odds of finding a Colombian gem this is what our service is geared towards."

   I think it's amazing this man is being such a great guide and saying to be careful as he's privy to a lot of things and we're talking marriage here. Not a roll in the hay.

 But guys will argue with Jaime too,saying he must not like Colombian woman or putting his private life out there. But the guy's here to help and very few people want to hear his reality.Or anyone for that matter who doesn't candy coat things.

 He's saying watch out and think with your big head as he's seen too many gringoes think with the little head and fail.  He's warning there are sharks in the water, so be very careful how you select.

    Jaime should be praised. Yes, he's out there to make money. But it's apparent he cares more about his clients than making money. Because he's willing to put out facts most agency owners will not,since they know you get much more suckers with Bull[snip] then you get telling the truth. You'll get many more suckers investing in anything if you lie and alter paperwork and promise a double  or triple return rather than than being honest and saying I can get you 7-10%.
   He could try like Mark to act like all his girls are Angels even though one just flew the coop as soon as she got to the U.S. But he doesn't

[fathertime]

I agree this "Neo" character was just telling the truth the way he sees it, and I agree with the vast majority of his post.

I also agree with the way Jamie has presented his agency and ladies here.  The fact is that there is a percentage of women that would not be good marrige material for MOST regular guys.  It is part of our job to sift through and decipher that fact for ourselves when we are in Colombia.  It is easy to intentionally take Jamie's words out of context and try to paint him as a bigot, but that is not the case at all.  He is giving fair warning to those with rose colored glasses that don't know better yet.  There is no bs sugar coating, which I appreaciate.  Not to mention he always came through with the most beautiful girls, when I used his agency!

Fathertime!

[JR33]

SD, What made you think Neo was a woman?
   

    

        Probably because there are alot of AWs out there that hate the idea of an AM going outside The United States of Oprah to find a suitable woman for a wife. Guys should be more realistic when looking for a FW and also I suggest "taking the bull by the horns" and understanding that finding that "gem" as Jaime says, is the responsibility of the guy doing the looking. I've been looking myself and have devoted alot of time in Colombia, from what I've seen it is not as bad as described by others.I've seen guys that were plain butt ugly chasing after young hot babes and I just think they gotta know what they are getting into.I even asked one guy why he chased women that were out of his league and he stated that he didn't care...if she leaves(I think he even said "when she leaves") he'll just go back and get another one. That kinda thing is not for me but, hey, to each his own.
         As far as Neo's post, yeah, this sort of thing goes on but to devote so much space on how FWs are mostly scammers will make some guys wonder about who is writing it. I mean, if it is this bad...why even consider a FW? 

[blockbuster]

     .I even asked one guy why he chased women that were out of his league and he stated that he didn't care...if she leaves(I think he even said "when she leaves") he'll just go back and get another one.

 It's guys like that who will force immigration laws on marrying FW to be even tougher. I wouldn't be suprised if they start limiting the amount of VISAS  to 2 like they do in some countries.  Then what are guys like that gonna do ?

[bcc_1_2]

there are some good points there. i've never visited FSU countries or even been to latin america but when I first started looking I checked out some pictures of tours.

Old guys dancing with young women while attractive mates in their late 20s and 30s and early 40s sit around. There were some creepy old dudes getting down with girls attractive enough to get my attention (well a few of them at least) if I had gone.

Hes right though. Leave the 18 to 24 year old singles for me. Because if you dont some guy in the states my age will probably end up fooling around with her.

I remember seeing one tour in an asian country where this really old 65 plus fat guy was grabbing at this tiny little 18 year old girl. Freaked me out. But then I saw some more normally looking couples and figured there are just a few dumbasses out there.

[william3rd]

Not just a few. Lots and lots and lots of dumbasses heading over there to find. . . .  who knows what.

[blockbuster]

 Apparently there are no shortage of dumbass 40 and 50 year old Western women looking for 20 something foreign men either.

 There's no fool like an old fool in either gender.

http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/islam/TAGNGOSER6A2VVGOU

[no comment]

A very strident post. All the misspellings & incoherent sentences are a dead giveaway for posting under the influence, though. Why not see an opportunity, rather than rail at old ugly men with $? Would you want women who are attracted to such men? If you can present a younger, more attractive alternative then you have an advantage.
SocialDreg, that's a very cool avatar. A chimp with a semi-automatic. Wish I thought of that.

[bcc_1_2]

Apparently there are no shortage of dumbass 40 and 50 year old Western women looking for 20 something foreign men either.

 There's no fool like an old fool in either gender.

http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/islam/TAGNGOSER6A2VVGOU

not surprised. there are many women in the usa that struggle to keep a guy as well. i've never dated a woman and complained about her career goals or anything like that. my complaint is they eventually turn out to be control freaks.

or they try to use sex to get what they want. the next time your g/f does that to you, kick her out, break up with her, it freakin shocks the crap out of them.

[blockbuster]

 The original poster Neo is not American. English is his second language.

I agree many Western women can control freaks. Though you can find a few very good ones.

   I read some of the comments on the link I posted . It's interesting the women's reasons for marrying these much younger foreign men seem to parallel the reasons given by Western men. Apparently these Egyptian men can turn on the charm quite early on. Some even spending money on the old gal and "pretending " to be insulted if she does not allow him to pay for outings innitially. Smart ploy. Seems to throw that old girls off.

Ex:The fact that so many lauded this comment is precisely why I can not stand the over whelming majority of western people. I am a German woman who lives in the states. My experience dating western men has been nothing but nauseating materialism. They are too often selfish, cheap, superficial and unintellectual. Their number one value is on money, the next is chasing down the latest thrill. Family and love take a back seat.

USA has a 52% divorce rate, 30% of the adult population has a substance abuse problem and nearly 86% of marriages end due to infidelity. I am fed up of this disgusting money greedy culture and the emotionally stunted people it produces. Women are too often gold diggers (such as yourself) and the males are in it for the trophy girlfriend.

It is this exact thought process that drives so many european women to go in seek of men of other cultures. I too am dating a Middle Eastern man because I can no longer stand the lack of ethics in the western hemisphere. Marrying "up" is not the foundation of a partnership, its honor & love.

 Another comment:
I went to Egypt and met a guy I am much older than him. i returned three times after that I married him under Egyptian law 'Orfi Marriage'not a real marriage butjust to keep everyone quiet. I met his family and they are really really lovely. I et lots of women ho warned me that he only wanted me for my money. I didnt beleive them but I did send him money. then I set him up in business.£500) i was just about to go back to Egypt when I came to my senses was gonna buy a flat. i didnt go back and basically didnt catch my flight that morning now all he does is txt me. Telling me this is my business too and that he needs and loves me so much. I sit here wondering if I made a mistake he has never been nasty to me and treats me like a queenand doesnt care that I much older than him 20 years older. i need to talk to women who have this problem i am at my wits end!!!!!!!!