Do you need to register a Divorce from the United States in Colombia?

[Dennis]

I was married in Bogota but we divorced here in California.  Last week I had a little run in with my Ex-Father in Law at the airport in Bogota.  He was telling my current girl friend that I was still married to his daughter because she never signed the Divorce.  We tried to explain that his daughter didn't need to sign it, she never showed up for the court and they declared it a Default Divorce.  She was served the papers and lives in Oakland and she could have came to court to argue the divorce but didn't.

Do I need to have the divorce registered in Bogota also? 

[william3rd]

Dissolutions of marriage from any country are given full faith and credit so long as the dissolution would otherwise be valid in the other jurisdiction based on the same facts. So- the answer is no, you do not have to "register" your divorce in Colombia.

[SocialDreg]

I had the exact same situation.   Married in Cali and divorced in the US.  I won by default as she was a no show.
I did not register my divorce in Colombia.  I live here now.  I am sure Colombia recognizes a divorce from the US .

Like you I have been told that I am still married to her by Colombians.  Colombia and the US have all sorts or treatys or conventions that deal in matters like this.  I am sure that I am not married to my ex.

[michaelb]

Well, you got two good legal opinions, one from a lawyer and one from a guy who did it. Now here's a medical opinion (no, and I don't play one on TV either). I'd recommend NOT hanging out with the ex's family, nor letting them know when you're in town or where you're staying---particularly if they don't admit it's over and/or think you didn't do right by her.

[Calipro]

I was married in Bogota but we divorced here in California.  Last week I had a little run in with my Ex-Father in Law at the airport in Bogota.  He was telling my current girl friend that I was still married to his daughter because she never signed the Divorce.  We tried to explain that his daughter didn't need to sign it, she never showed up for the court and they declared it a Default Divorce.  She was served the papers and lives in Oakland and she could have came to court to argue the divorce but didn't.

Do I need to have the divorce registered in Bogota also? 

I think the divorce is perfectly legal in Colombia as far as getting remarried and filing for a visa.

But I knew a guy that had to get divorced twice, once in Colombia and once in the U.S.

Turns out that he owned property in Colombia and the Colombian courts did not uphold the distribution of assets that the U.S. court imposed.

[jamesr24]

I am going through the same issues.  I have been in contact with two top divorce attorneys in Colombia and both have told me the same thing.  You must get divorced in both places.  Below was a recent dialog via email. 

1.  Because you got married in Colombia and then register the marriage with inmigration, you are married twice. This means you got married in Colombia and you are married in USA.
 
2. Divorce: Due to Colombia and USA do not have a treaty to accept divorce made in one of the countries, the couple needs to get a divorce in the two nations. Sounds bad! but the good news is if there are no assets in Colombia, the divorce has the minimun cost and it is faster 2 days max after filling the petition. Of course, taxes goes down.
 
The fee of the notary reduces and it includes copies of the divorce and the liquidation of assets for each applicant and for the notary where the wedding was registered and where your wife was registered after she was born.
 
3. Consequences: If you dont do the divorce, your ex-wife still your wife in Colombia so any debt she has with the Colombian IRS, inmigration, taxes, banks, all this stuff, the colombian law pressumes you are responsible for the half of the amount. READ CAREFUL!!! so your properties in USA can be seized by bank. They fill in a petition here with a colombian judge and a US Court orders the procedure there.
 
I know this because the firm where i worked in, did it 2 years ago and the seized a restaurant in US.
 
4. Cost: Usually the notary has a cost that must be canceled. Before any deposit, you need to do a payment to confirm the solicitation. From my experience, last year i had three similar cases as yours and in the notary 2nd of Medellin, it declared the divorces faster and all legal to avoid future problems.
 
The person in charge knows very well how to handle this kind of bussiness.
 , plus the liquidation of assets that depends on the day it is done. As time goes by, and because it is an additional document, it can be raised . I imagine is around 200 dollars the minimum.
 
There are expenses needed to pay as original traslation of any document in english to spanish, made by the Colombian State`s Secretary, mail to the Notaries where wedding was done and in which was your wife registered. And certificated mail to you and your wife. The last divorce i did cost 300 dollars.

If you would like to contact this attorney his name is  Esteban Rada  lawyerscolombia@yahoo.com
 

 

[william3rd]

USCIS disagrees with this position as do the jurisdictions of our 50 states.

Paragraph 1 in the post is false on its face. How do you marry 2X by filing with immigration? The Colombian marriage is given full faith and credit. To find otherwise would mean that any foreign person would not be married in Colombia when they visited.
Paragraph 2 in the post is suspect.
Paragraph 3 is completely false; it doesnt work that way here, pilgrim.

I can sell you a toll bridge if you want to make some real money. . . . and you can throw your wife off. . . cheaper than the colombian divorce but, you might have to kill her here and then down there because there is no treaty to accept the death certificate between the countries.

[jamesr24]

Do not shot the messenger!!!  If you have any issues with what the colombian lawyers have consistantly told me then take it up with the Colombian laws.  The obvious question, R U a colombian lawyer who specializes in divorce.  If so then we should listen.  If not then you might want to do a little more research before given out your opinion on a subject that you only know from the US point of view.  Again i have sat with two seperate divorce lawyers (both highly recommended) who do not know each other and the story has been the same.  You need to divorce in the US and in Colombia.  The divorce in Colombia is roughly $250 so I do not think anyone is getting fleeced over $250 bucks... 

[daytrader]

1.  Because you got married in Colombia and then register the marriage with inmigration, you are married twice. This means you got married in Colombia and you are married in USA.
 
2. Divorce: Due to Colombia and USA do not have a treaty to accept divorce made in one of the countries, the couple needs to get a divorce in the two nations. Sounds bad! but the good news is if there are no assets in Colombia, the divorce has the minimun cost and it is faster 2 days max after filling the petition. Of course, taxes goes down.

might not be the first (or last) time jamesr24 that you might be getting bad legal advice...me thinks your "Colombian lawyers" speak with forked tongue (how can I get some dinero from this gringo??). 

Granted, I'm not a lawyer, but ....your points that you are relaying just don't make sense to me. I'd check with a USA lawyer before making any decisions, the "full faith and credit" clauses are what make international trade, tourism and commerce work...without them this World would be a bunch of isolated 'city-states' -- international commerce and travel would be very rare.  Suggest checking around a little more. 

DayTrader

[william3rd]

Do not shot the messenger!!!  If you have any issues with what the colombian lawyers have consistantly told me then take it up with the Colombian laws.  The obvious question, R U a colombian lawyer who specializes in divorce.  If so then we should listen.  If not then you might want to do a little more research before given out your opinion on a subject that you only know from the US point of view.  Again i have sat with two seperate divorce lawyers (both highly recommended) who do not know each other and the story has been the same.  You need to divorce in the US and in Colombia.  The divorce in Colombia is roughly $250 so I do not think anyone is getting fleeced over $250 bucks... 

I really dont care what a Colombian lawyer has to say about issues that are settled in the USA. All we need is the US view, champ. Run off to play now.

And. . .dont buy any restaurants in the USA. Sure would hate to see the big bad Colombians take it away from you.

[sean126]

Jamesr24....just wondering if you checked with any highly recommended divorce lawyers in the U.S. about the same question?

You mentioned that you work/worked in a firm that actually seized a restaurant from someone (I assume a man) in the U.S. 2 years ago.  You was very vague about it, so I was wondering:

1.  I assume that the restaurant was seized solely because she (the wife) owed some kind of debt or taxes while she was married to the man and then after the (U.S.) divorce, some time had past...and then the Colombian government (judge) issued an order to seize the man's restaurant in the U.S. to pay off her debt in Colombia?  Or did she acquire this debt after the (U.S.) divorce...but because it wasn't registered in Colombia...all this happened? Or was it both of their debt that they acquired during the marriage?

2.  I assume you work/worked for this firm in Colombia and not for a firm in the U.S. ?
3.  This "firm", I take it, is a law firm?

By the way...Welcome!

[william3rd]

http://travel.state.gov/family/abduction/country/country_3057.html

Here is some food for thought. . . . .

Colombian Courts presume to take precedence over US orders. However, they have no jurisdicition over property in the US

So-if you are divorcing and have some property in Colombia, you may have some issues. As far as that restaurant that is mentioned, there would have to be a new round of litigation in the US. If there was a US order in effect on property, then the Colombian order is like a piece of toilet paper.

Back to the original question on divorcing here and in Colombia-the answer is still a resounding NO.

[jamesr24]

Let me clarify again.  the initial reply was an email that was sent to me by one of the lawyers I have spoken to.  But not my personal experience.  To answer the question, I have spoken to a lawyer here in Miami who handles divorces and knows the colombian law and he gave me a resounding yes that a second divorce needs to take place especially if property is involved.  Why not ask Bala, he will have an opinion on it.  www.garybala.com.  I am just trying to shed some light on a subject people seem to be confused about.  I respect everyone's opinion but let's get to the factual truth without the backhanded, sarcastic comments...   

[william3rd]

Took the liberty of talking to a couple of certified immigration  and family law specialists here in CA. Still a resounding NO out here. Maybe it is different where you come from.

I do see a reason from my DOS post as to why not to marry someone from Colombia based on the child issues. Colombia is a signatory to the Hague Convention so that helps some.

Why dont you ask Gary Bala- or are you just out shilling tonight?

[doombug]

Do not shot the messenger!!! [...] [Y]you might want to do a little more research before given out your opinion on a subject that you only know from the US point of view. [...] The divorce in Colombia is roughly $250 so I do not think anyone is getting fleeced over $250 bucks... 

Research done.

Since you're his "messenger," send a telegram to Mr. Rada to come on over to PL to clear the air. (You may already know that he pimps his services to naive gringos over at PBH.)

Remember I work in all areas of Colombian law specially FAMILY LAW, ADOPTION, COLOMBIAN VISA, CREATION OF ENTERPRICES IN COLOMBIA, DILIGENCES WITH THE GOVERNMENT, DIVORCES.

My fees are based on the rules of the Medellín bar of lawyers association and the rules of the secretary of Justice.

Don’t hesitate to write me for any question you have.

http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/legal-advice-of-the-week2/

Anyone can hire a peso-motivated, fear-mongering Colombian lawyer to work on a divorce case. The question is, would such efforts be extraneous? About the only thing that $250 might get one is peace of mind.

FWIW, señor Bala has already commented on this issue here.

In his words:

DIVORCE AND THE COLOMBIANA
What If Things Don't Work Out?
*This article is written about the Colombian Latina,
but the same rules apply to any foreign national lady or gentleman.
By: Gary G. Bala, Esquire

Last Revised: January, 2006

In the unfortunate event that "things don't work out" with your Colombian Latina or other foreign lady or gentleman national, TWO MAJOR ISSUES will need to be addressed:

I) The Marriage Dissolution Process, and
II) The Immigration Process

The more promptly and forcefully these issues are addressed, the less trouble and difficulties will arise as time passes. Resolving these issues will also allow you and your "ex" to secure two tangible benefits:
1. Closure of legal and financial obligations under the former marriage, and
2. Freedom to move on and marry another.

U.S. and Colombian rules are in agreement on one critical point. A formal marriage dissolution document is necessary before a partner can re-marry or obtain new immigration benefits based on a new spouse. See Matter of Ceballos, #A22324968, (BIA June 13, 1979).

I. THE MARRIAGE DISSOLUTION PROCESS:
Divorce, Annulment and Legal Separation

The marriage dissolution process in civil law offers three (3) options: divorce (the formal process of termination of married status), annulment (the process of nullifying the marriage so that it is treated as if it never happened) or interim legal separation (a process offered in some states as an interim step to final divorce). Naturally, a sound and timely decison must be made about which of these three (3) marriage dissolution vehicles is most appropriate in your case.

One of the first questions to answer is whether this dissolution process should be started in Colombia (or other foreign country home of your "ex") or in your own home state. Contrary to popular belief, it is not legally necessary to accomplish a divorce or annulment in the same location as the marriage. A divorce or annulment accomplished in a country, state or locality, if valid under that jurisdiction's laws, are treated as valid in all other jurisdictions, at least "on paper".

Within the United States domestically, this mechanism is known as "full faith and credit" under Article IV, Section I of the U.S. Constitution. Internationally, this is accomplished under the provisions of the Hague Convention Treaty, Legalization of Documents Provision, if both jurisdictions are parties to the treaty, and with the use if an "apostille". See: List of Countries Which Are Part of Hague Convention on Legalization of Documents, State Department. See also: Explanation of the Hague Convention and "Apostille", State Department.

There some cautions, however, to these general rules. CAUTION #1 "QUALIFICATIONS": The first is that the parties must qualify for divorce or separation under your state's laws. If, for example, your state has a residency requirement for the foreign lady and she has decided to leave and return home, your case may not qualify for a divorce under your state law. Thus, you may have no choice but to divorce or annul in your lady's home country. CAUTION #2 "PRACTICAL CONSIDERATIONS": In addition, there are practical considerations of time, cost and ease of process. For instance, accomplishing a divorce in a foreign country is usually more expensive and time-consuming than doing one here in most states (especially if uncontested). Further, you may also want to consider availing yourself of the jurisdiction with less stringent "no-contest" requirements such as one which allows submission of simple signatures rather than personal appearance. CAUTION #3 "REGISTRATION OR RECOGNITION PROCESS": While a divorce decree or annulment order issued by a court of competent jurisdiction in the US is technically "valid" in Colombia under Hague Convention on Legalization of Documents, you are still required to "register" or "recognize" it in Colombia. (It is also suggested that any Colombian Divorce is stamped with Apostile by the Colombian Foreign Minister's Office: Ministerio de Relaciones Exteriores, Officina de Legalizaciones, Trasversal 17A, No. 9-45, Santafe de Bogota, Colombia, Tel: (1) 525-1862, 525-1860, 522-3697). "Registration" process is done through a civil notary. The problem is that in many cases this will require a new "court filing" in Colombia which, for practical purposes, is tantamount to another divorce filing in Colombia. Thus, it is sometimes said that you are forced as a practical matter to secure a "second divorce order" in Colombia.

And on the subject of premarital agreements and Colombian law here.

In closing, I think it's great that the USCIS now duals as a registrar of marriage.

[sean126]

My bad...After re-reading, it was the attorney who was saying he worked in a firm.  I thought you was putting additional comments in his e-mail.

Thanks for the input Jamesr24.

[jamesr24]

No problem, In reading Bala's comments he clearly states the following though...

CAUTION #3 "REGISTRATION OR RECOGNITION PROCESS": While a divorce decree or annulment order issued by a court of competent jurisdiction in the US is technically "valid" in Colombia under Hague Convention on Legalization of Documents, you are still required to "register" or "recognize" it in Colombia. (It is also suggested that any Colombian Divorce is stamped with Apostile by the Colombian Foreign Minister's Office: Ministerio de Relaciones Exteriores, Officina de Legalizaciones, Trasversal 17A, No. 9-45, Santafe de Bogota, Colombia, Tel: (1) 525-1862, 525-1860, 522-3697). "Registration" process is done through a civil notary. The problem is that in many cases this will require a new "court filing" in Colombia which, for practical purposes, is tantamount to another divorce filing in Colombia. Thus, it is sometimes said that you are forced as a practical matter to secure a "second divorce order" in Colombia.

In reading that I would assume that if you were married in Colombia and get divorced here in the US that you need to register that divorce back in Colombia or essential get a second divorce especially when assets are involved.  Which is what i have consistantly been told.  Thanks everyone for their imput...

[lawyer CO]

to clarify the stuff, check the colombian civil procedure code in its section Foreign sentence.

To admitt a divorce sentence given outside Colombia, you need to ask the permission of the supreme court. Once it has been granted, the family court of your distric will order the end of the marriage celebrated in Colombia.

The hague convention only works in the legalization of the divorce papers for the procedure in Colombia

[lawyer CO]

another issue about registration of divorce, is that if you got an US divorced from the colombian women but yot married inside COL, this goverment will not know about the decision unless you tell it.

En real terms, the wife will continue appearing as your wife in Colombia, for all legal matters and the presumption of community of assets will not be destroyed so... credit cards, debts, etc she can put them as yours and they will be ok.

Esteban R.

[Dennis]

Hmm.. the last few responses have raised an interesting issue.  Since I am divorced here in California and have no idea where she is at now.  (Last known residence was with her boyfriend in Oakland but who and where I don't know). 

I guess I should try to contact a Lawyer in Colombia and see what I need to do. 

[william3rd]

If you have divorced in California and have adjudicated your marital issues, then whatever she chooses to do in Colombia AFTER divorce in regard to applying for credit cards and the like is not relevent to your marital state in CA. If you own nothing in Colombia, then where are these Colombian orders going to be enforced? In this state? Bring it on!!!

Where is this bulloney coming from?

[Dennis]

I am confused but I think I am going to stay with Williams Advice for now. My original post was in early July when I asked the question after my girlfriend and I had the run in with my Ex-Father-in-law in the airport in Bogota.  I felt comfortable after reading the first few replies to my post and didn't worry about anything.  My girlfriend and I were married in San Andres later that month.  We took the papers to Bogota and registered the marriage and didn't have any problems so I was thinking everything was good.  Then today I noticed some of the other posts and that got me thinking I had problems.  My first wife and I didn't have any property or anything in Colombia so that isn't an issue.  She disappeared with her boyfriend back in January 0f 2006 and I have no idea where she is now so I am not to worried about her, she only calls when she is broke and needs some money.  But I cut her off when the divorce was finalized. My current wife and I have are papers submitted to the California Service Center and I have my divorce papers submitted and I know they are good so I don't think we will have any problems.  If I am wrong then I hope someone will let me know so I can start to get things corrected.