Gringo Affirmative Action

[papi]

I don't normally get in the immigration debate, but it pisses me off that employers require bilingual staff in their hiring practices. Why should we have to speak Spanish to get a position in S. Texas? I passed the verbal spanish test a potential employer gave me the other day but this is a bunch of BS. This is America! Not Mexico.

[el_ruso]

There are customers who are more comfortable speaking spanish.  It is the majority Spanish area.  I would imagine to work in customer service in Quebec one needs to speak French.  If you don't like it, you can move to Provo, UT.  Nobody will ask you for Spanish or French or any other language there.

So you have been having a difficulty getting a job because of your opposition to speaking Spanish?

[papi]

So you have been having a difficulty getting a job because of your opposition to speaking Spanish?

No, I pass the tests and not opposed to speaking it at work. I just think this is America - we should speak English. If I moved to Colombia, I would have to speak Spanish. Same should go for here

[daytrader]

PP sez -- No, I pass the tests and not opposed to speaking it at work. I just think this is America - we should speak English. If I moved to Colombia, I would have to speak Spanish. Same should go for here

Right on!

[soltero]

Right on!

I can't believe that the two of you finally agree on something! Could this be the beginning of an ideology truce?

[doombug]

No, I pass the tests and not opposed to speaking it at work. I just think this is America - we should speak English. If I moved to Colombia, I would have to speak Spanish. Same should go for here

In Colombia or Mexico, they'd label you an ugly American for saying such things!

And in America..., well, in America they'd also label you an ugly American for saying such things!



And what is an ugly American? (Or, guess how many of our "guests"--both legal and otherwise--also share some of these bad habits?):

Are you the ugly American?

POSTED: 4:12 p.m. EST, November 1, 2006
 
By Erin Richards
Budget Travel

(Budget Travel Online) -- Certain actions -- whether stemming from ignorance or arrogance -- will brand you a jerk. Experts offer advice to avoid the 10 most common faux pas among travelers.

Find the local rhythm
Americans have a hard time adjusting to a pace of life that isn't as fast as their own, says Jacqueline Whitmore, author of "Business Class: Etiquette Essentials for Success at Work." As a result, they're sometimes labeled as rude and pushy. "In Germany, dinner can take three hours or more," says Whitmore. "It's an experience. You can offend the waitstaff by trying to speed up the process."

Make a good first impression
"In some cultures you hug, in others you shake hands and in others you kiss," says Cindy Post Senning, a director at the Emily Post Institute. "It's easy to disrespect locals if you aren't familiar with how to greet them, both formally and casually."

Avoid careless judgments
Travelers love to talk about how places are different from home. Unfortunately, says Senning, innocent observations can come across as superior and judgmental, as in: "Your cars are so small here!" or "I can't believe this restaurant doesn't have ice cubes." [Or ketchup.]

Mind your table manners
Educating yourself about local customs is the only way to know that Chileans expect wine to be poured with the right hand, and that the Japanese frown upon sloshing soy sauce on rice. As for those times when you're served food you can't bear to look at, let alone eat, but you don't want to disrespect your host? Smile and eat as much as you can, says Colleen Rickenbacher, author of "Be on Your Best Business Behavior." [In China, burping at the table is acceptable.   What if we in the West find that offensive?]

Speak the language
You don't have to be fluent, or even close; you just have to make an effort. "It sends an offensive message when you don't even acknowledge 'good day' in the language," says David Solomons of CultureSmart!Consulting, which publishes country-by-country etiquette guides. "It's total and utter anathema to the French when an American starts a conversation without beginning it with bonjour." [How offensive would this sound, though: "It's total and utter anathema to Americans when a Mexican starts a conversation without beginning it with hello."]

Don't overtip
Monica Francois Marcel, of consulting firm Language & Culture Worldwide, says nobody tips as much as Americans (and that isn't always commendable). "It gets at the economics of a country," she says. "A taxi driver could easily interpret your tip as flaunting your wealth." Marcel recommends asking a concierge to explain local expectations, and then tipping the concierge the proper amount. Of course, undertipping is never a great idea, either.

Watch your gestures
The wrong move with your head, hand or foot can be a surefire way to get on a local's nerves, or even pick a fight. "We also fail to do our homework about space relationships," says Roger E. Axtell, author of eight international etiquette guides, including "Do's and Taboos Around the World." "Latin America and the Middle East have smaller personal 'bubbles,' so you must refrain from stepping away when they move close."

Dress respectfully
Classy everyday attire might have faded in the U.S., but it's always a good idea for tourists to look smart, says Whitmore. Conservative "global colors" -- grays, blues, blacks -- are generally safe bets. If you're going to a warm climate, avoid the temptation to pack only shorts and sandals. Include slacks and dress shoes, especially if you plan on dining at nice restaurants or visiting houses of worship.

Use clear English
Many people speak English as a second language, and it's hard for them to understand when tourists use slang and neglect to speak slowly. "We clutter our speech with jargon and sports and military terminology," says Axtell. "Try to stay away from idioms and slang, and watch for reactions to make sure communication is going well. Americans also forget to avoid phrases like, 'Hi, how are you?' in which we aren't really looking for an honest response."

Be a thoughtful guest
As in the U.S., if you're staying at someone's house or going over for dinner, bring flowers. Souvenirs from home -- T-shirts, refrigerator magnets [or even makeup pens. Sorry, DP, couldn't resist. ]-- are appreciated, too. Small gifts can smooth out everyday interactions. Gifts don't have to be expensive; as always, it's the thought that counts.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/10/31/cultural.etiquette/

[This is why we need to claim we're from Canada whenever abroad.]

[el_ruso]

Paps,

as I said, in most jobs bilingual knowledge is not required.  If one works in sales or customer service in S. Texas it makes sense to speak Spanish, since it is the majority of the population there.  Same as people who live and work in Quebec should expect that a potential employer might expect them to speak French.  If you don't like it, you have freedom to live in areas of different ethnic/ racial makeup.  As far as I know, you are not from S Texas, so if you don't like it, you don't have to live there.

BTW, your hero, Jamie, does not agree that if he moved to Colombia, he has to speak Spanish.

[papi]

If you don't like it, you have freedom to live in areas of different ethnic/ racial makeup

hey, Texas is America and in Texas we should only need to speak American to get a job. If I go to Mexico, I will speak Mexican. Help me out here DT... why should I move out of my country? Will the last gringo turnoff the lights

In Colombia or Mexico, they'd label you an ugly American for saying such things!

That is OK, I have been called worse.

[utopiacowboy]

If my wife's English were dynamite she wouldn't have enough to blow her nose off. Since she's living in South Texas, she can get along fine without it even to the point of supervising an entire shift at her parts manufacturing plant. Sometimes even an Anglo can find a command of Spanish useful. My youngest son spends a great deal of time at our house and his Spanish is so good he takes his Spanish courses with native speakers. Anyway his high school soccer team was playing a team from Eagle Pass and the players on that team were talking smack in Spanish. He responded in Spanish and they got really pissed off that a gringo could understand them and give it back to them.

[el_ruso]

Paps,

No, you don't have to move out of your country.  Your country is very diverse, which is one of the things that make it stronger and more dynamic.  There are plenty of places in US where bilingual ability is not required; in fact, that's most of the country.  You chose to move to S Texas, and you are complaining about pre-existing cultural conditions there.  If you don't like them, move back.

[Jamie]

A company should be able to dictate what ever language requirements they want.

BTW, your hero, Jamie, does not agree that if he moved to Colombia, he has to speak Spanish.

Ruso based on your obsession with me one would think I am your hero. To correct you once more (as if that will ever change) I certainly do believe if one moved to Colombia they should learn Spanish.

[papi]

Jamie, i think you would have a better chance talking to the wall. Regarding S. Texas, I like the culture and the community and most have adapted to English. In fact, that is what I mostly speak here. Yet, there is reverse racism going on in this country and it extends well beyond S. Texas. I have heard that there is a movement with some in government to change things and make English the official language. I endorse that as I assume Spanish is the official language of Colombia. Companies should not be able to discriminate due to a persons lack of Spanish - in America!

[papi]

Hey Cousin Ruso, my great great grandfather came from Russia. I never met him but assume his shoe salesman didn't lose his job cause he couldn't speak Russian. The millions of immigrants prior to the latin influx had to accept English. I don't mind having bilingual signs and making things easier on immigrants. All the same, an American should not lose his job cause he can't speak a foreign language!

[daytrader]

PP sez - ey, Texas is America and in Texas we should only need to speak American to get a job. If I go to Mexico, I will speak Mexican. Help me out here DT... why should I move out of my country? Will the last gringo turnoff the lights

You bring up one of the reasons I am considering living overseas a great deal of the time. In the southern climates of the USA, many places are like living overseas; you have 4 choices of running into someone in the service sector (you need to buy, rent or converse with someone):

1>  ignorant of USA ways/customs, likely illegal immigrant, little english; unhelpful in providing service/support
2>  elderly, unhelpful becuz they are 20 yrs behind the curve in the USA; unhelpful in providing service/support
3>  speaks english but is low skill, going nowhere, also unhelpful in providing service/support
4> speaks english, up to speed, competent, has 20 tasks besides yours to take care of; is off with the wife and kids on the day you need service

So, why not order everything thru Amazon.com, web portals, ship it to Miami, and fly there once in a while and load up with the stuff you need, then put up the slower but somewhat more peaceful pace (because your expectations are lower) in Colombia. 

Rumor has it that South Carolina is trying to stuff a county with a bunch of conservative republicans/libertarians so that the government will stop wrecking a perfectly good lifestyle that is the envy of the world the past 100 years. It's almost hopeless, the downward trend toward banana republic with a benevolent dictator is well on it's way here in the USA within 10 years or so.  Then Social Security and Medicare will go bankrupt and tax rates will go up to 70%. 

Then I surrender my USA passport, don't pay taxes and visit elsewhere in the World using my Colombian/CR/Beliz passport.  Sounds like a plan to me.
DayTrader

[papi]

if you can earn money and live offshore for most of the year, you can avoid taxes on a chuck of it. Yet, I am not sure where daytrading would fall under the IRS guidelines. Talk to your tax professional before surrendering your passport. Remember, if your Diamond goes south, that passport is the sexiest thing in your bag besides your wallet.

You are also correct that living in parts of the USA is like going expat. Life is cheaper along the mexico border than Cali. The climate is mild, offers an ethnic culture and of course young latin chicas...

[daytrader]

PP, I am talking like ten years from now...before I would do anything like surrendering a passport...Bush raised taxes on Americans living overseas, there is no tax advantage living overseas.  Daytraders avoid FICA and Medicare taxes, however, that's a huge advantage.  Having a business in the US, all travel to seminars, meetings, training sessions would be writeoffs, so, it's still a net plus and the cost of living is much less in LA.   

DayTrader

[papi]

i am fairly certain the first $70K or so is tax free for expats.

[tjay]

Why should we have to speak Spanish to get a position in S. Texas?

it's also possible they don't want any non-hispanics working with them, and have found a way to avoid "anti-discrimination" lawsuits simply by stating a bilingual preference. relatively few americans (of non-hispanic descent) are bilingual, while many hispanics are at least functionally bilingual.

a guy i once knew, from costa rica, told me how his fellow colombian and cuban business owners in miami did not like to hire americans, whether white or black, as both were considered ungrateful, lazy and "habitual liars" when it came to work performance and attendance. which is their right to believe.

in most countries, including all south american countries, it is perfectly acceptable to state the age, gender, and physical appearance of a potential job candidate. it is also acceptable to tell them that they don't hire certain demographics for whatever reason they want...

[daytrader]

PP sez - i am fairly certain the first $70K or so is tax free for expats.

could be true, but Bush raised the "marginal tax rates"...expats pay a higher rate at certain incomes than US residents. 

DayTrader

[papi]

it's also possible they don't want any non-hispanics working with them, and have found a way to avoid "anti-discrimination" lawsuits simply by stating a bilingual preference.

bingo!

could be true, but Bush raised the "marginal tax rates"...expats pay a higher rate at certain incomes than US residents.

solution, put a stop-profit on $70k daytrades per annum. should be sufficient income for cali

[michaelb]

Papi - You could always move to Farmers Branch.

[Nicks]

We werent alloud to sign the national hymn on graduation day in high school, because it was rasist against the non swedish students..

i got my first job in panama, because i spoke english, my second because i spoke english and spanish, and the third because i speak english, swedish and spanish.

languages are good, the gringos need to realize that, the europeans allready have, except the english and the french hahahahah.

nicks