Cali Charm's website is down

[Dan]

Ricky Martin isn't all that popular here in Cali....I'm not sure anyone would even show up if he tried to have a concert here.

It would be nice to seen some young good looking gringos here in Cali for a change.

You use the phrase "here in Cali" twice - are you posting from Colombia?

If you care to, it might be nice if you make a small introduction and let us know a bit more about you and your goals/status/etc. in the Introductions forum, found here -- http://www.planet-love.com/forum/index.php?board=33.0.

Welcome aboard.

- Dan

[texassingledad]

What if the reason you have no hair on your head is because you shave it off?

Les

[bcc_1_2]

their employees be complicit with his charade, it belies a level of corruption.

It has been my experience that if a person will lie to you about small things - they will lie to you about big things.

I don't like being lied to.

- Dan

I agree, but at the same time would also suspect that it could be as simple as a single gringo owner not wanting bad press. But it just leads me to speculate what else?

You don't like being lied to and I don't like it damn near all of the agencies don't conform to the US laws. One seems a more serious infraction than others, but I can understand your anger.

[bcc_1_2]

What if the reason you have no hair on your head is because you shave it off?

Les

Works for some guys. not for me I'd look silly

[Dan]

I agree, but at the same time would also suspect that it could be as simple as a single gringo owner not wanting bad press. But it just leads me to speculate what else?

You don't like being lied to and I don't like it damn near all of the agencies don't conform to the US laws. One seems a more serious infraction than others, but I can understand your anger.

Look back to paragraph 2-B in the quoted ACoE regarding Business Regulations. Clearly, the ACoE expects agencies to comply with ALL applicable laws and regulations.

With that as the context - what, exactly, is your 'beef' with "damn near all agencies" you believe do not comply with US laws? Are you (again) addressing IMBRA? If so - what is your FACTUAL basis for the claim that "damn near all agencies" do not comply? Of course, to answer this question - you must FIRST fully understand IMBRA and its exclusions. The fact is IMBRA provides for some agencies (IMB's) to be *excluded* from IMBRA regulations. Do you KNOW, exactly, what the exclusionary conditions are? If so, have you applied those exclusionary conditions to "damn near all agencies"?

Oh - and BTW - I am not angry. It isn't important enough to me to generate anger - or any strong emotion.

Guys will need to draw their own conclusions. The MAIN thing is - I want them to be fully informed.

I would like them to be posing hard questions to agencies about the agency compliance with the ACoE - but that remains the individual choice of each individual. If more people would demand honesty and integrity from the IMB's - which translates into demanding the agency (IMB) to comply with the ACoE - there would be FAR fewer problems with agency (IMB) issues.

- Dan

[bcc_1_2]

With that as the context - what, exactly, is your 'beef' with "damn near all agencies" you believe do not comply with US laws?


Guys will need to draw their own conclusions.

I'll leave it at this. With Cali Charm I didn't actually think you'd attack them. I just assumed you'd say guys will draw their own conclusions.

I have used agencies when I had some down time. None where IMBRA compliant. The same can be said for Cali Charm IMO. Here I go drawing conclusions. My first concern is their database. My second concern would be US law. My third concern would be the owner.

In my own experience when laws change for you the business or even your customer... you get in full compliance (and you made damn sure of it) before it kicks into effect. There are plenty of examples of this. Because of the accounting scandals with Enron every publically traded company had a major new law to comply with. At best it is unprofessional and at worst you end up making a serious mess for your client. Its just my opinion. I found it strange that you'd come so strongly against the ownership when that might be down the list of issues.

[Dan]

I'll leave it at this. With Cali Charm I didn't actually think you'd attack them. I just assumed you'd say guys will draw their own conclusions.

I have used agencies when I had some down time. None where IMBRA compliant. The same can be said for Cali Charm IMO. Here I go drawing conclusions. My first concern is their database. My second concern would be US law. My third concern would be the owner.

In my own experience when laws change for you the business or even your customer... you get in full compliance (and you made damn sure of it) before it kicks into effect. There are plenty of examples of this. Because of the accounting scandals with Enron every publically traded company had a major new law to comply with. At best it is unprofessional and at worst you end up making a serious mess for your client. Its just my opinion. I found it strange that you'd come so strongly against the ownership when that might be down the list of issues.

Stating facts is NOT an "attack."

IMBRA compliance is composed of a dimension you persist in conveniently ignoring.

- Dan

[bcc_1_2]

Stating facts is NOT an "attack."

IMBRA compliance is composed of a dimension you persist in conveniently ignoring.

- Dan

What evidence is there to support the fact? Just curious as I don't personally have any and I was down there.

As for IMBRA. If they don't have the clients fill out the sheet and disclose everything (or nothing as I have no criminal record) then what is there to discuss? They are either doing it or they aren't. Nobody did it with me. What if I had decided to propose to one of those girls? She'd have to tell the truth of course. Nothing was disclosed to her and I'd have to check that I used a marriage broker in the box as well. Hopefully they'd have let it slide. But no guarantees of course.

[Calipro]

What evidence is there to support the fact? Just curious as I don't personally have any and I was down there.

As for IMBRA. If they don't have the clients fill out the sheet and disclose everything (or nothing as I have no criminal record) then what is there to discuss? They are either doing it or they aren't. Nobody did it with me. What if I had decided to propose to one of those girls? She'd have to tell the truth of course. Nothing was disclosed to her and I'd have to check that I used a marriage broker in the box as well. Hopefully they'd have let it slide. But no guarantees of course.

IMBRA has no effect on the day to day operations if any foreign owned marriage agency that I have ever been to (which might be one of many reasons why the american owner of CaliCharm prefers to remain anonymous).

I have yet to see any foreign owned agency make any attempt to comply with IMBRA.

[bcc_1_2]

IMBRA has no effect on the day to day operations if any foreign owned marriage agency that I have ever been to (which might be one of many reasons why the american owner of CaliCharm prefers to remain anonymous).

I have yet to see any foreign owned agency make any attempt to comply with IMBRA.

I thought long and hard about actually getting into this business of connecting USA guys with latin american women. I actually drove down to Monterrey (got mexican insurance at the border) with a friend and we checked it all out. Finally we just came to the conclusion that with the economy being in the tank that it was not something we should try anytime soon. Plus we both felt like the slimy image agencies have would be hard to avoid going the international personals (eharomny match.com ) route.

This is marriage we are taking about here. It is supposed to be that life long partnership between two people. Are we really interested in leaving that kind of relationship to chance all because of some crappy law. A law that requires filling out a paper and doing a background check. It sucks but you gotta do it in my opinion. Nobody I know of in Cali did it. Could it have posed a serious problem for me? I can only speculate.

[Shadow_mas]

Not being American the IMBRA does not apply to me. But I have read enough to know that it does apply no matter where the agency is or who owns it. You can drive through a red light and not get caught. But do you want to take this risk with your life partner ?

[CeeTeeEnn]

...we just came to the conclusion that with the economy being in the tank that it was not something we should try anytime soon. Plus we both felt like the slimy image agencies have would be hard to avoid going the international personals (eharomny match.com ) route.

My take on this is that many agencies (some no doubt reputable) may soon go to the wall far a variety of reasons, not least being the economy and the fact that many girls are getting tired of meeting "dweebs" or "dorks". But the no.1 reason will be sites like Facebook and Myspace.

These sites are massive with in the region of 100 million members apiece. I've noticed many Latinas joining facebook lately where before they tended to stick with hi5 or Orkut. All it needs is a decent "dating app" to be written where you can run proper detailed searches (as opposed to the rather lame "are you interested") and many dedicated dating sites will feel the heat.

I definitely wouldn't want to be the owner of a intros site right now, be it Latin orientated or mainstream.

[utopiacowboy]

I have noticed this phenomenon myself. It seems like in the past six months to a year, every one of my wife's sisters and cousins and friends is on facebook. They didn't used to be but now there they all are.

[Dan]

What evidence is there to support the fact? Just curious as I don't personally have any and I was down there.

As for IMBRA. If they don't have the clients fill out the sheet and disclose everything (or nothing as I have no criminal record) then what is there to discuss? They are either doing it or they aren't. Nobody did it with me. What if I had decided to propose to one of those girls? She'd have to tell the truth of course. Nothing was disclosed to her and I'd have to check that I used a marriage broker in the box as well. Hopefully they'd have let it slide. But no guarantees of course.

>>What evidence is there to support the fact?<<

Plenty.

>>As for IMBRA. If they don't have the clients fill out the sheet and disclose everything (or nothing as I have no criminal record) then what is there to discuss?<<

You are wrong - again.

- Dan

[bcc_1_2]

>>What evidence is there to support the fact?<<

Plenty.

>>As for IMBRA. If they don't have the clients fill out the sheet and disclose everything (or nothing as I have no criminal record) then what is there to discuss?<<

You are wrong - again.

- Dan

I don't know what to say here Dan. I feel comfortable saying no agencies I dealt with in Cali are in compliance with IMBRA. I have first hand experience with this. Is there anyone out there that disagrees with me on that issue?

Second... its great you have plenty of evidence. Thanks for sharing.

[bcc_1_2]

Not being American the IMBRA does not apply to me. But I have read enough to know that it does apply no matter where the agency is or who owns it. You can drive through a red light and not get caught. But do you want to take this risk with your life partner ?

I made the reference to speeding and not getting caught in the past but the reference to the red light works as well. Regardless if you get caught or not you are obviously breaking the law. Only some will get punished of course. I just hope some couple doesn't get screwed because it is possible IMO.

[Calipro]

Not being American the IMBRA does not apply to me. But I have read enough to know that it does apply no matter where the agency is or who owns it. You can drive through a red light and not get caught. But do you want to take this risk with your life partner ?

There are no agencies that I'm aware of in Colombia that makes any attempt at complying with IMBRA (perhaps Jamie's does) and I don't think the US government has any authority to punish or regulate them in anyway.

I guess the US government could start messing with the visas of couples that met at these agencies but I have yet to see any evidence of this over the years.

[Dan]

I don't know what to say here Dan. I feel comfortable saying no agencies I dealt with in Cali are in compliance with IMBRA. I have first hand experience with this. Is there anyone out there that disagrees with me on that issue?

Second... its great you have plenty of evidence. Thanks for sharing.

>>its great you have plenty of evidence. Thanks for sharing.<<

Are you claiming I am lying?

>>I feel comfortable saying no agencies I dealt with in Cali are in compliance with IMBRA. I have first hand experience with this.<<

Do You?!?

You assert yourself as competent to make decisions as to IMBRA compliance?

- Dan

[Dan]

There are no agencies that I'm aware of in Colombia that makes any attempt at complying with IMBRA (perhaps Jamie's does) and I don't think the US government has any authority to punish or regulate them in anyway.

I guess the US government could start messing with the visas of couples that met at these agencies but I have yet to see any evidence of this over the years.

>>I don't think the US government has any authority to punish or regulate them in anyway.<<

Then you have not read IMBRA closely.

- Dan

[Calipro]

>>I don't think the US government has any authority to punish or regulate them in anyway.<<

Then you have not read IMBRA closely.

- Dan

Well I have read in close enough to know that done of the agencies I have dealt with comply with IMBRA. I can't imagine what the US government thinks it could do besides simply denying visas to couples that have met through the offending agency.

Any hypothetical scenerios were the US forces compliance on foreign based marriage agencies would be welcomed at this point because done of the agencies comply and nothing has been done about it.

I would say that Cali Charm is one of the better agencies in that regard simply because they ask to see your passport or cedula..most don't even ask for that.

[Jeff S]

I can't imagine what the US government thinks it could do besides simply denying visas to couples that have met through the offending agency.

Isn't that enough?

[Dan]

Well I have read in close enough to know that done of the agencies I have dealt with comply with IMBRA. I can't imagine what the US government thinks it could do besides simply denying visas to couples that have met through the offending agency.

Any hypothetical scenerios were the US forces compliance on foreign based marriage agencies would be welcomed at this point because done of the agencies comply and nothing has been done about it.

I would say that Cali Charm is one of the better agencies in that regard simply because they ask to see your passport or cedula..most don't even ask for that.

CP,

Over in the left frame, you will find a link to IMBRA in the 'Information' block. Clicking on it takes you to a page with another link that takes you to the text of IMBRA, and if you click on that and navigate to Sec. 833(d)(4)(A), you will find this text:

(4) INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE BROKER-

      (A) IN GENERAL- The term `international marriage broker' means a corporation, partnership, business, individual, or other legal entity, whether or not organized under any law of the United States, that charges fees for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services, or social referrals between United States citizens or nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States as permanent residents and foreign national clients by providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating communication between individuals.

Please pay particular attention to the emboldened text that I emphasized.

How do you interpret that language?

If you want to learn about the enforcement options available, please refer to H.R. 3402 Sec. 833(d)(5) "Penalties."

And BTW - if you read the actual IMBRA text, please don't mention Sec. 833(d)(4)(B) to bcc_1_2. If he actually read it - and understood it (comprehension does not seem his strongsuit) - it might manage to damage some (much?) of his abject ignorance.

- Dan

[bcc_1_2]

CP,

Over in the left frame, you will find a link to IMBRA in the 'Information' block. Clicking on it takes you to a page with another link that takes you to the text of IMBRA, and if you click on that and navigate to Sec. 833(d)(4)(A), you will find this text:

Please pay particular attention to the emboldened text that I emphasized.

How do you interpret that language?

If you want to learn about the enforcement options available, please refer to H.R. 3402 Sec. 833(d)(5) "Penalties."

And BTW - if you read the actual IMBRA text, please don't mention Sec. 833(d)(4)(B) to bcc_1_2. If he actually read it - and understood it (comprehension does not seem his strongsuit) - it might manage to damage some (much?) of his abject ignorance.

- Dan

Ah thanks. Well if feminists ever organize (haha.. IF) and protest a lack of IMBRA's enforcement I would bet what Jeff S commented on would happen. Feminists sure do seem to get their way. I don't see imbra going anywhere or doing anything but getting stronger. Its only a matter of time. And this goes beyond the agencies. I'm sure that in future revisions they go after dating websites hard too. We'll see how it plays out but my money is on the feminists.

[Dan]

Ah thanks. Well if feminists ever organize (haha.. IF) and protest a lack of IMBRA's enforcement I would bet what Jeff S commented on would happen. Feminists sure do seem to get their way. I don't see imbra going anywhere or doing anything but getting stronger. Its only a matter of time. And this goes beyond the agencies. I'm sure that in future revisions they go after dating websites hard too. We'll see how it plays out but my money is on the feminists.

Are you suggesting that is your interpretation of the ONLY enforcement options available to US Authorities?

Are you planning to answer the questions I posed earlier?

- Dan

[Calipro]

Isn't that enough?

Well it might be enough if anyone ever got their visa denied for meeting their spouse at a marriage agency that didn't comply with IMBRA. Can't say that I've ever run into anyone having that problem.